Political Posts

[lnofeisone]

19 hours ago, Marco Van Basten said:

What are you talking about?  Even if one takes your numbers as correct, (hard to believe that 2.5% of all adults in NYC between 21-64 are disabled), 25% of the population is 2.05MM. (0.55*45%).    So there are 2.05MM adults between 18 and 65 in NYC who are not disabled on Medicaid.  It is clear that none of these people actually has a full time job.    Anyone who works full time in NYC ($16 minimum wage) at 40 hours per week, earns $33.3K per year, which makes the person not eligible for Medicaid.  Working 3 hours a week, is NOT working.   

I don't know how you can argue "it's clear that none of these people actually has a full time job." I am open to you showing it to me. But here check out some statistics that anti-medicaid crowd either doesn't know or chooses to just ignore. 

 

You are forgetting to couple one interaction variable - kids. I may work full-time @16 hour minimum and hit 33.3k, and that would disqualify me for Medicaid, but under the same scenario + 1 child, I now qualify for Medicaid. If I have a a child under 1, I can work a $23/hr job and still qualify for medicaid. 

 

Median household size in NYC is 2.5 Couple that with number of total kids in NYC and this points to small family units - think 1 parent - 1 child, 1 parent - 2 children. You can really corroborate this further if you look at the median NYC household income - $79k, and then you look at the per capita income, which is only $50k.

 

 

You can check disability statistics for yourself - https://www.nyc.gov/site/mopd/publications/disability-statistics-in-nyc.page

[Gregmal]

4 hours ago, Sweet said:

Are you guys deliberately missing the point?

 

It’s not about the science or the efficacy of vaccines but whether it is mandated.

 

The UK doesn’t have a mandate and yet from a quick look at the stats more kids here have their childhood shots than Florida where it was mandated.

This is one of the biggest reasons the Democratic Party is losing the average person. They are just incapable, whether because of stupidity or dishonesty, of making a credible argument. It’s like how their main argument, of all things, for abortion is instances of rape like it represents 80% of abortions lol. I guess they didn’t read shitbreaks 47 pages of college textbook literature on “ways to spot dishonest debate”….

[Milu]

11 hours ago, dwy000 said:

A mandate is not needed in most countries because common sense takes care of it. It would be less of an issue if the government here wasnt actively suggesting people question vaccines.

 

Then there's also the question of at what point your child's health risks (and their classmates) takes precedent over your personal right to do something that could be harmful. 

Has the vaccine rate been high in the USA historically and has only now dropped due to the current government, if so then you may have a point, if not then I don't think the argument works.

 

Ireland also doesn't have any mandatory vaccines yet our vaccination rates are very good, I suspect this is the same for many other developed countries.

 

For a country that is supposedly the land of the free there seems to be a lot of talk about dictating what people can and can't do. There was a lot of similar "we know what's best for you" mindset by certain political leaders during covid too (lockdowns, vaccine mandates etc) yet I don't think there was any statistically significant differences in the death rates in heavily restricted places like California vs unrestricted places like Sweden.

 

We need to give people the freedom to make their own decisions, most people will make the rational decision, and a small proportion won't, just have to accept that. What would you like to do, pin these people down and jab a needle in their arm, banish them from society?

[LC]

27 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

This is one of the biggest reasons the Democratic Party is losing the average person. They are just incapable, whether because of stupidity or dishonesty, of making a credible argument

 

Oh c'mon - some conservatives love making a controversial implication but when the point is pressed, immediately backtrack and claims dishonesty. Bunch of whiners. 

 

Take a look at this terrible point:

 

5 hours ago, Sweet said:

The UK doesn’t have a mandate and yet from a quick look at the stats more kids here have their childhood shots than Florida where it was mandated.

 

Does anyone think more Floridians will get vaccinated if there was no vaccine mandate? 

I just did my own research and apparently the moon has no vaccine mandate and there's zero smallpox up there!

[Gregmal]

18 minutes ago, Milu said:

For a country that is supposedly the land of the free there seems to be a lot of talk about dictating what people can and can't do. There was a lot of similar "we know what's best for you" mindset by certain political leaders during covid too (lockdowns, vaccine mandates etc) yet I don't think there was any statistically significant differences in the death rates in heavily restricted places like California vs unrestricted places like Sweden.

100%. But then they wanna post Reddit threads showing videos of people telling ICE they’re breaking the law and then acting like it’s a civil rights violation they get chased lmfao 

 

Freedom ain’t for everyone. None of them are forced to be here. 

[Gregmal]

17 minutes ago, LC said:

Does anyone think more Floridians will get vaccinated if there was no vaccine mandate? 

I just did my own research and apparently the moon has no vaccine mandate and there's zero smallpox up there!

That’s the thing; I don’t give two shits what’s other people do. I make my own choices for the circle that I have some control over. Otherwise I mind my own business and respect the rights of others to do the same. 
 

If I ever had more than marginal concerns about the state of things, I’d consider leaving, which is something I’ve already done once. 

[KJP]

37 minutes ago, Milu said:

We need to give people the freedom to make their own decisions, most people will make the rational decision, and a small proportion won't, just have to accept that. What would you like to do, pin these people down and jab a needle in their arm, banish them from society?

 

I think everyone agrees with that point until a person's decisions start to have negative consequences for others.  The debate is over when the negative consequences for others are so large that the individual's freedom must be restricted to prevent those consequences.

 

Several seemingly (I may be misinterpreting their views) pro-mandate commenters above referred to "classmates."  I assume they are referred to something like the following scenario:

 

1.  There is a dangerous childhood disease X.  There is a vaccine for X whose efficacy is inversely correlated with population vaccination rate such that the vaccine essentially eradicates the disease at 90+% population vaccination rate and is much less effective at only 75-80% population vaccination rate such that there will be substantial outbreaks and deaths among both vaccinated and unvaccinated children at those population vaccination rates.  

 

2. 75% of the population is very pro-vaccine and would get their children vaccinated regardless of any mandate.  5% of the population is very opposed to vaccinations and refuses.  The remaining 20% would vaccinate their children if there was a mandate but generally wouldn't there was no mandate.

 

In this scenario, the pro-vaccine people believe that they are being denied a significant portion of the benefits of vaccines unless there is a mandate.  And they believe the potential consequences of someone else's choice -- the death of children, including their own -- are so significant as to restrict the freedom that they would otherwise allow others.  An anti-mandate view is talking past the pro-mandate view if it does not work through the issues raised by the scenario above.

 

I have deliberately used "disease X" and highly stylized facts to avoid getting bogged down in a factual debate about any particular vaccination.  

 

I'm also leaving out the further complication of the US being a federal republic in which different states can have different laws, which in theory allows people to select into the laws they favor, which may be the most practical solution of all.

 

Edited October 28, 2025 by KJP

[cwericb]

16 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

That’s the thing; I don’t give two shits what’s other people do. I make my own choices for the circle that I have some control over. Otherwise I mind my own business and respect the rights of others to do the same. 
 

If I ever had more than marginal concerns about the state of things, I’d consider leaving, which is something I’ve already done once. 

 

So if someone has a serious transmittable disease like Ebola or Aids do you believe they have the right to do nothing to prevent spreading it to others? 

[dwy000]

1 hour ago, Gregmal said:

This is one of the biggest reasons the Democratic Party is losing the average person. They are just incapable, whether because of stupidity or dishonesty, of making a credible argument. It’s like how their main argument, of all things, for abortion is instances of rape like it represents 80% of abortions lol. I guess they didn’t read shitbreaks 47 pages of college textbook literature on “ways to spot dishonest debate”….

As always a massive generalization.  The entire argument I've been making is that you dont need a mandate if you dont have a government pushing stupidity against vaccines but instead supports science. How is that not a valid argument? 

[Gregmal]

Eh just look above…speaking of the “what about rape” re:abortions as the horrible extremist liberal talking point, enter the conversation re:vaccine mandates…what about AIDS! lol. 
 

PS exposing someone to AIDs is a crime punishable with jail time in America. It effects a very small and specific portion of the population due to the nature of it, and it sure as fuck ain’t a reason many Americans are going to sign their rights over to the whims of some sleazeball politicians with respect to broad vaccine mandates. 

[dwy000]

2 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Eh just look above…speaking of the “what about rape” re:abortions as the horrible extremist liberal talking point, enter the conversation re:vaccine mandates…what about AIDS! lol. 
 

PS exposing someone to AIDs is a crime punishable with jail time in America. It effects a very small and specific portion of the population due to the nature of it, and it sure as fuck ain’t a reason many Americans are going to sign their rights over to the whims of some sleazeball politicians with respect to broad vaccine mandates. 

At what point does a parent's freedom (and stupidity) cross the line of harming the child?  

 

I dont remember vaccine arguments coming up much at all in the last 25 years until we put a nut job in charge of HHS.

[LC]

1 minute ago, dwy000 said:

I dont remember vaccine arguments coming up much at all in the last 25 years until we put a nut job in charge of HHS.

 

It's so wonderfully ironic that the loony parents crusading against vaccines for their precious little babies, are themselves vaccinated.

[Gregmal]

12 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

At what point does a parent's freedom (and stupidity) cross the line of harming the child?  

 

I dont remember vaccine arguments coming up much at all in the last 25 years until we put a nut job in charge of HHS.

At some point, like with AIDS, society determines that.
 

My kids are all vaccinated as are my wife and I. Flu shots are not mandated and we get them yearly. I don’t need the government telling me to do that. Anyone who relies on the government for health guidance is frankly a loser. Not to mention, there’s varying laws individually at the state level, and even within that, there’s different options generally presented at the school level depending upon whether you’re public/private or in an extreme example, homeschooled.

 

But again, why would I be so arrogant to assume that just because I arrive at a specific conclusion on a specific subject, that I need some bureaucratic bully to force that conclusion on everyone else?

Edited October 28, 2025 by Gregmal

[dwy000]

4 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

At some point, like with AIDS, society determines that.
 

My kids are all vaccinated as are my wife and I. Flu shots are not mandated and we get them yearly. I don’t need the government telling me to do that. Anyone who relies on the government for health guidance is frankly a loser. Not to mention, there’s varying laws individually at the state level, and even within that, there’s different options generally presented at the school level depending upon whether you’re public/private or in an extreme example, homeschooled.

 

But again, why would I be so arrogant to assume that just because I arrive at a specific conclusion on a specific subject, that I need some bureaucratic bully to force that conclusion on everyone else?

Yes, society determines that when they are supported by science, facts and medical leadership that follows science. Thata not what is happening.  Our government is actively promoting anti vaccine ideology and recommendations. 

 

You're right anyone listening to the government over their doctor for medical advice is a loser.  But you have a cult that is doing exactly that - especially when the health leadership is telling them to question vaccines. 

 

So at what point is the parent stupidity that you point out, harming the child?

[villainx]

1 hour ago, Milu said:

Ireland also doesn't have any mandatory vaccines yet our vaccination rates are very good, I suspect this is the same for many other developed countries.

 

Is it not mandated at all on all levels, or are stuff like schools required to have vaccination to attend?

 

 

[Gregmal]

3 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

You're right anyone listening to the government over their doctor for medical advice is a loser.  But you have a cult that is doing exactly that - especially when the health leadership is telling them to question vaccines. 

Their problem, not mine.
 

5 years ago we went on an 8 month family road trip; staying at $800 a night hotels for $100 and eating a great restaurants because they were abandoned by uneducated folks and virtue signalers. We avoided being persecuted for exercising these freedoms because we left authoritarian states that were abusing people’s constitutionally given “rights” due to a manufactured “crisis”. At one point what we were doing wasn’t even consensus like it is now. Everyone lies in the bed they make for themselves.
 

Bottom line, if your answer to every problem is “the government”….you’re a loser who deserves to be mocked, ridiculed, and at no point, ever taken seriously.  

[dwy000]

22 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Their problem, not mine.
 

5 years ago we went on an 8 month family road trip; staying at $800 a night hotels for $100 and eating a great restaurants because they were abandoned by uneducated folks and virtue signalers. We avoided being persecuted for exercising these freedoms because we left authoritarian states that were abusing people’s constitutionally given “rights” due to a manufactured “crisis”. At one point what we were doing wasn’t even consensus like it is now. Everyone lies in the bed they make for themselves.
 

Bottom line, if your answer to every problem is “the government”….you’re a loser who deserves to be mocked, ridiculed, and at no point, ever taken seriously.  

What a ridiculous answer. Nobody is saying "goverrnment" is the answer for every problem (generalization again).  We are talking about how to protect people (children here) from being harmed by other people's decisions. 

 

I have never once heard anybody argue for a mandate for shingles vaccines. Why?  Because if youre stupid enough to not get it (for political reasons) you deserve all the suffering you may end up getting.  We are only talking about communicable diseases for children.  

 

There is no federal vaccine mandate. It is only at the state and local levels and solely for purposes of schools.  And there are health and religious exemptions.   The only reason this is even an issue for the first time in decades is because we have health "leadership" that is questioning science and parents are exposing their kids to own the libs. 

[Gregmal]

Intelligent people like to make their own decisions. Stupid people need to be told what to do. Intelligent people with mental disorders like to get their rocks off by controlling others, and stupid people with mental disorders like to do things that harm themselves long term in exchange for getting their rocks off short term. It's all pretty simple. 

[dwy000]

4 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Intelligent people like to make their own decisions. Stupid people need to be told what to do. Intelligent people with mental disorders like to get their rocks off by controlling others, and stupid people with mental disorders like to do things that harm themselves long term in exchange for getting their rocks off short term. It's all pretty simple. 

Stupid people need to be told what to do.  

 

Exactly!!!!  The problem is stupid people dont know they're stupid.  Nobody would care if stupid people only harmed themselves.  Its when stupid people harm others that laws tend to pop up to stop it.  So if people find those laws to be restrictive, maybe they just fall on the wrong side of stupid. 

[Milu]

54 minutes ago, villainx said:

 

Is it not mandated at all on all levels, or are stuff like schools required to have vaccination to attend?

 

 

I've never heard of a requirement for vaccination to attend school here. I asked chatgpt and got this answer.

 

"In Ireland, you do not have to be vaccinated to attend most schools. Here are the key points:

• The Health Service Executive (HSE) runs a free “School Immunisation Programme” offering various vaccines for children at primary and secondary-school age. HSE.ie+2HSE.ie+2

• Vaccination is strongly recommended by the Department of Health and health-authorities, but it is not mandatory for school entry. Citizens Information+2IMJ+2

• Schools may ask for immunisation records for inclusion in the school immunisation programme, but cannot legally refuse admission solely on the basis that a child is unvaccinated. "

For clarity I am generally pro vaccine and myself, wife and kids, have the whatever the general ones you get when you are a baby. We don't bother getting flu vaccines each year but not because of any anti-vax stance etc. If I found out that some kids in my childs school weren't vaccinated I don't have much a problem with it, not sure how I'd ever find out anyway.

 

In summary 

Vaccines 

Mandatory Vaccine 

 

 

 

[villainx]

Mandatory vaccination is only reason my kids got vaccinated.  My wife is one of the loony people.

 

Just kidding.  But mandatory definitely help with the final push to get her to agree.

 

 

[Gregmal]

15 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

Stupid people need to be told what to do.  

 

Exactly!!!!  The problem is stupid people dont know they're stupid.  Nobody would care if stupid people only harmed themselves.  Its when stupid people harm others that laws tend to pop up to stop it.  So if people find those laws to be restrictive, maybe they just fall on the wrong side of stupid. 

Which is why we can leave liberal crime center cesspools like NYC, Chicago, LA/SF as is for the stupid ones, and let everyone else enjoy their freedoms! Go Zohran! Go Gavin!

[rogermunibond]

10 minutes ago, Milu said:

I've never heard of a requirement for vaccination to attend school here. I asked chatgpt and got this answer.

 

"In Ireland, you do not have to be vaccinated to attend most schools. Here are the key points:

• The Health Service Executive (HSE) runs a free “School Immunisation Programme” offering various vaccines for children at primary and secondary-school age. HSE.ie+2HSE.ie+2

• Vaccination is strongly recommended by the Department of Health and health-authorities, but it is not mandatory for school entry. Citizens Information+2IMJ+2

• Schools may ask for immunisation records for inclusion in the school immunisation programme, but cannot legally refuse admission solely on the basis that a child is unvaccinated. "

For clarity I am generally pro vaccine and myself, wife and kids, have the whatever the general ones you get when you are a baby. We don't bother getting flu vaccines each year but not because of any anti-vax stance etc. If I found out that some kids in my childs school weren't vaccinated I don't have much a problem with it, not sure how I'd ever find out anyway.

 

In summary 

Vaccines 

Mandatory Vaccine 

 

 

 

 

Ireland has a childhood vaccination rate of 91% which puts it below the threshold for establishing herd immunity.  So not an accomplishment and not a model for other nations.

 

[dwy000]

13 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Which is why we can leave liberal crime center cesspools like NYC, Chicago, LA/SF as is for the stupid ones, and let everyone else enjoy their freedoms! Go Zohran! Go Gavin!

Exactly again!!  If that's not how you want to live, dont live there!  But the whole great freedom part is that people who do want to live like that can.  Great American freedom.  

[Red Lion]

1 hour ago, LC said:

 

It's so wonderfully ironic that the loony parents crusading against vaccines for their precious little babies, are themselves vaccinated.

 

+1