Coronavirus

[cubsfan]

^ Yeah, "Follow the Science" means - "we're still lying to you".

[Liberty]

https://twitter.com/alecstapp/status/1391580015981117441?s=21

[Gregmal]

Here's another interesting story.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/eric-clapton-blames-propaganda-disastrous-212342775.html

 

And I totally agree. Its almost sickening turning on anything from Bloomberg radio, to z100, and constantly being bombarded with pro vaccine propaganda. Seeing places like Facebook literally ban anyone from questioning the vaccine or removing people who post things like "my body, my rights" in relation to the shot, after having no problem with the phrase for ages. Force fed only one side of things...definitely not the democratic or respectful way to go about it. 

I have gotten the vaccine myself, but constantly hearing this sort of crap makes me completely understand and even sympathetic to people who are skeptical. Forcing views or jamming things down peoples throats just creates the opposite reaction. A classic, stupid government move. Better plan for vaccinations would be to encourage companies/employers to peddle them. Seeing the government targeting, big tech censoring, and campaigning like this is almost Orwellian. 

[Gregmal]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/michigan-governor-apologizes-apparent-social-074341180.html

 

Rules for thee, but not for me. 

 

To quote scumbag,

 "Yesterday, I went with friends to a local restaurant. As more people arrived, the tables were pushed together. Because we were all vaccinated, we didn't stop to think about it", the governor said. 

Perhaps its time to stop "thinking about it" and just use common sense. Even sheeple can do it. 

 

[rkbabang]

On 5/17/2021 at 10:54 AM, Gregmal said:

Here's another interesting story.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/eric-clapton-blames-propaganda-disastrous-212342775.html

 

And I totally agree. Its almost sickening turning on anything from Bloomberg radio, to z100, and constantly being bombarded with pro vaccine propaganda. Seeing places like Facebook literally ban anyone from questioning the vaccine or removing people who post things like "my body, my rights" in relation to the shot, after having no problem with the phrase for ages. Force fed only one side of things...definitely not the democratic or respectful way to go about it. 

I have gotten the vaccine myself, but constantly hearing this sort of crap makes me completely understand and even sympathetic to people who are skeptical. Forcing views or jamming things down peoples throats just creates the opposite reaction. A classic, stupid government move. Better plan for vaccinations would be to encourage companies/employers to peddle them. Seeing the government targeting, big tech censoring, and campaigning like this is almost Orwellian. 

 

Agreed.  I too have gotten the vaccine, but I did so knowing full well that I am basically a guinee pig taking an experimental injection for which the short term risks are poorly studied and the long term consequences are completely unknown.  I can definitely see the point of view of those who would rather take a wait and see approach.  No one knows if the vaccines are safe, and if they say different they are just as much full of excrement as the anti-vax people who "know" that they are dangerous.  The propaganda is not giving people an accurate portrait of the risks that they are taking. The language from the paperwork they give you when you show up to take it should be told to everyone at every opportunity, not banned from social media.

 

[Gregmal]

100%. The deception is staggering and makes the mortgage docs that led up to GFC look tame. Why is whats in the paperwork they force you to sign(on the spot, very little time to read) so much different in narrative than what they're shouting from the rooftops, blasting on the radio waves, and holding celebrity endorsed concerts for? If they are this certain, why won't they let you hold them accountable if anything goes wrong? 

[Gregmal]

https://nypost.com/2021/05/26/fauci-facing-gop-calls-for-resignation-amid-wuhan-lab-controversy/

 

This is actually quite breathtaking. No, not another Fauci flip flop, but the fact that once again we have a scenario where some folks said it was likely lab leaked early on. What happened? They were disparaged, ridiculed, called conspiracy theory nuts, and even censored and silenced by the elitist scumbags. Now...turns out they were probably right, again. What do we know though? Follow the science right?

[cubsfan]

^ The Covid lies are being exposed - just like Russia, Russia, Russia.

Amazing what suckers people are - to a media with no shame.

 

[RichardGibbons]

3 hours ago, Gregmal said:

once again we have a scenario where some folks said it was likely lab leaked early on. What happened? They were disparaged, ridiculed, called conspiracy theory nuts

Yep, as you say, they were treated fairly.

There's a lot of value in society shunning those who perpetuate paranoid conspiracy theories without any evidence whatsoever.

[Gregmal]

Eh there was more than enough there to at least investigate, even from the onset. Instead, it was actively covered up and purposely not pursued. Even worse, it was deliberately emphasized that people should be discouraged from pursuing the Wuhan lab leak theory by many. And now it looks like the cover has been blown off and they're being exposed...but we won't even get a mea culpa or apology from these scumbags...they'll just move on to the next narrative they want to push and the only hope is that there's enough people out there who arent brainless enough to fall for it again. 

I mean event tangentially, I know Asian hate crimes are now a hot topic(finally), did it help or hurt that the media spent the first 12 months of this thing peddling the narrative that this originated because a bunch of Chinese people were eating bats or some shit at a dirty flea market? When in reality it was likely something that escaped from a lab that the US was funding....imagine that?

Edited May 26, 2021 by Gregmal

[Parsad]

2 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Eh there was more than enough there to at least investigate, even from the onset. Instead, it was actively covered up and purposely not pursued. Even worse, it was deliberately emphasized that people should be discouraged from pursuing the Wuhan lab leak theory by many. And now it looks like the cover has been blown off and they're being exposed...but we won't even get a mea culpa or apology from these scumbags...they'll just move on to the next narrative they want to push and the only hope is that there's enough people out there who arent brainless enough to fall for it again. 

I mean event tangentially, I know Asian hate crimes are now a hot topic(finally), did it help or hurt that the media spent the first 12 months of this thing peddling the narrative that this originated because a bunch of Chinese people were eating bats or some shit at a dirty flea market? When in reality it was likely something that escaped from a lab that the US was funding....imagine that?

I understand your sentiment, but you can't have it both ways:

- The vaccine may have side effects, even though none have come to light other than 1/100,000 or greater chances of blood clot or inflammation of the heart...so the anti-vaxxers say wait for the long-term effects and evidence.

- The virus came out of a lab, but the conspiracy theorists said let's not wait for evidence.

Which is it...do we base decisions on evidence or speculation? 

As value investors, you invest based on evidence or fundamentals.  As a speculator, you invest based on speculation. 

I would imagine that value investors are an evidence-based group, but perhaps the recent influx of capital by value investors into crypto should indicate otherwise!    Cheers!

[Gregmal]

I don't disagree, but I think that there's just so much to learn form this whole thing, and it doesnt seem like the majority of people learned anything. In fact I'd say they proved themselves to be dumber or more gullible than I could have imagined. There's always known and unknown variables out there that need to be underwritten into ones projections/models. Willfully ignoring them is dangerous.

We cant spend the entire summer and fall fear mongering about the safety of the vaccine, and then all of a sudden turn around and tell everyone "oh its safe"...and then ridicule people for being skeptical. 

We cant allow people to purposely peddle a false narrative, refuse to investigate other theories, and then when they're wrong, just move on to the next story. 

The biggest expose in all of this was the unreliability of government officials, experts, and media. Their willingness to lie, harness something like this for personal gain/attention, and then just change the story and tell everyone to move on. Its horrendous. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Gregmal

[cubsfan]

^ Nah, the real answer is certain groups did not want to know the truth - period.  IF the truth conflicted with their narrative - the answer was to stick your head in the sand, not ask questions, and avoid looking for any evidence other than what the lying "experts" were going to tell you.

Plain as day. Totally obvious.

 

[maplevalue]

7 minutes ago, Parsad said:

- The virus came out of a lab, but the conspiracy theorists said let's not wait for evidence.

Which is it...do we base decisions on evidence or speculation? 

As value investors, you invest based on evidence or fundamentals.  As a speculator, you invest based on speculation. 

In the face of uncertainty one should base their decisions probabilistically.  

The probability a novel coronavirus was the result of a lab escape, given it emerged a couple hundred metres from a lab which was conducting research to create novel coronaviruses, and given China has a history of lab escapes for the original SARS, is non-trivial and hence the lab-escape theory should always have been taken seriously.

[Gregmal]

It also, if you want to take a bit of a leap in terms of logic, explains why they were able to come up with a vaccine so quickly, and also probably is marginally positive in terms of deducing that the vaccine is safe. There's also probably something to be said of the rumor that China had a vaccine going out in March of last year. And mysteriously their cases all but stopped. There's so much to this that deserves exploration, but they've all moved on cuz they used it to get what they wanted and now that they have its in their interest to change the subject. 

[Buckeye]

46 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Eh there was more than enough there to at least investigate, even from the onset. Instead, it was actively covered up and purposely not pursued. Even worse, it was deliberately emphasized that people should be discouraged from pursuing the Wuhan lab leak theory by many. And now it looks like the cover has been blown off and they're being exposed...but we won't even get a mea culpa or apology from these scumbags...they'll just move on to the next narrative they want to push and the only hope is that there's enough people out there who arent brainless enough to fall for it again. 

I mean event tangentially, I know Asian hate crimes are now a hot topic(finally), did it help or hurt that the media spent the first 12 months of this thing peddling the narrative that this originated because a bunch of Chinese people were eating bats or some shit at a dirty flea market? When in reality it was likely something that escaped from a lab that the US was funding....imagine that?

 

I don't disagree, but I think that there's just so much to learn form this whole thing, and it doesnt seem like the majority of people learned anything. In fact I'd say they proved themselves to be dumber or more gullible than I could have imagined. There's always known and unknown variables out there that need to be underwritten into ones projections/models. Willfully ignoring them is dangerous.

We cant spend the entire summer and fall fear mongering about the safety of the vaccine, and then all of a sudden turn around and tell everyone "oh its safe"...and then ridicule people for being skeptical. 

We cant allow people to purposely peddle a false narrative, refuse to investigate other theories, and then when they're wrong, just move on to the next story. 

The biggest expose in all of this was the unreliability of government officials, experts, and media. Their willingness to lie, harness something like this for personal gain/attention, and then just change the story and tell everyone to move on. Its horrendous. 

Greg, I understand your sentiment, but your messages lack any substance.  You spend 3 or 4 paragraphs per post railing against all of these wrongs without giving any specifics. You use all of these "they"s and "they're"s describing all of the horrible people who "disparaged, ridiculed, called conspiracy theory nuts,"  etc. Who are you talking about specifically? Also who has "refused to investigate"?  Do you think this topic is not currently being investigated?  

Edited May 26, 2021 by Buckeye

[cubsfan]

^ You must be kidding or living under a rock.

[Parsad]

43 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

^ Nah, the real answer is certain groups did not want to know the truth - period.  IF the truth conflicted with their narrative - the answer was to stick your head in the sand, not ask questions, and avoid looking for any evidence other than what the lying "experts" were going to tell you.

Plain as day. Totally obvious.

 

Yeah, but that works both ways...one group says one thing...the other group says the opposite.  After everything that has happened...reviews, recalculations, court cases, audits, secondary audits...there is still nothing showing any fraud from the election, but you still have people digging.  Vaccines, Wuhan, even frickin' kneeling during the anthem...each side has their own narrative, and neither side wants to listen to the facts.  What else is new?  Cheers!

[Buckeye]

2 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

^ You must be kidding or living under a rock.

My point exactly...no specifics.

[Parsad]

38 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

It also, if you want to take a bit of a leap in terms of logic, explains why they were able to come up with a vaccine so quickly, and also probably is marginally positive in terms of deducing that the vaccine is safe. There's also probably something to be said of the rumor that China had a vaccine going out in March of last year. And mysteriously their cases all but stopped. There's so much to this that deserves exploration, but they've all moved on cuz they used it to get what they wanted and now that they have its in their interest to change the subject. 

Sure, I would agree with some of that.  But the actual mRNA technology used in the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines is not new.  It's been researched and developed for over 30 years.  So it's not like the world came up with this overnight.  The technology was there.  Cheers!

[Spekulatius]

1 hour ago, Parsad said:

Sure, I would agree with some of that.  But the actual mRNA technology used in the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines is not new.  It's been researched and developed for over 30 years.  So it's not like the world came up with this overnight.  The technology was there.  Cheers!

The Chinese SinoPec vaccine doesn’t seem to work (efficacy is very low) so that partly explains why it was developed so quickly.

The mRNA tech was there, but it was obscure and not a single vaccine was approved using this tech.  A lot of people were sceptic, but it really proved that it was superior both in terms of development speed ,as well as efficacy. I am certain that this will be used for other use cases too, including very good initial results in Malaria (which has long been an elusive target for vaccines).

Malaria is a curse for many countries in the tropics and having a vaccine available would be an absolute game changer.

[Castanza]

22 hours ago, Buckeye said:

Greg, I understand your sentiment, but your messages lack any substance.  You spend 3 or 4 paragraphs per post railing against all of these wrongs without giving any specifics. You use all of these "they"s and "they're"s describing all of the horrible people who "disparaged, ridiculed, called conspiracy theory nuts,"  etc. Who are you talking about specifically? Also who has "refused to investigate"?  Do you think this topic is not currently being investigated?  

 

Tom Cotton called for investigation almost immediately and got laughed out of the building as a conspiracy nut. View the twitter thread to see the difference in headlines. Hell even FB just lifted a ban (today) on posts that say Covid was potentially man made. 

I mean, you have a global pandemic arise from a major pharma hub in a country that is pretty damn shady and the next logical conclusion of the big brain intellects is "bat soup"?! I mean the two proceeding "coincidences" should be enough to at least have a bipartisan effort to investigate. Common sense in my opinion. 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Castanza

[Gregmal]

19 hours ago, Buckeye said:

Greg, I understand your sentiment, but your messages lack any substance.  You spend 3 or 4 paragraphs per post railing against all of these wrongs without giving any specifics. You use all of these "they"s and "they're"s describing all of the horrible people who "disparaged, ridiculed, called conspiracy theory nuts,"  etc. Who are you talking about specifically? Also who has "refused to investigate"?  Do you think this topic is not currently being investigated?  

I mean for one, the first thing Joe Biden did upon entering office was shut down the ongoing Wuhan Lab investigation. 

[Gregmal]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

Hopefully more and more continues to bleed out. Remember all the whistleblowers in China in Jan/Feb who just went away? Remember the Chinese scientist chick who came over here around this time last year saying it was a coverup and the media scrubbed her and she just went away? Or the reports of an internal memo going around the Wuhan Institute mandating a complete security and procedural overhaul last February? Almost the same as new security features at a bank after a robbery? But when the government and media collude together to hide things from people, one has to accept that the truth is, very likely we will never get the full or true story. But all signs point to a massive government coverup here. Both with respect to China, and also most likely the US being complicit; after all they happened to be funding this lab. The behavior in the beginning was very telling. The US politicians held an emergency meeting a couple weeks into January, a mere 2 weeks after the first cases were reported in China? The lockdowns in China after like 3 weeks? We'd previously seen random outbreaks like Ebola and some others and never was the response like this one. Tell tale behavior of people who know more than they're letting on. Meanwhile, the average fool goes to The NY Times and says "thats the truth, they're credible!"...and it goes away just like the powers that be want. 

A reminder to all to always think for yourselves. There's a saying when investing that the more certainty/data one needs to invest, the higher the price they pay and the lower the subsequent returns. Great investors connect a few facts with a bunch of speculation and circumstantial data and arrive in the correct place. Obviously not everyone has this skill, but self awareness makes it somewhat easier. You had everything you needed here 3-4 months into this "pandemic".

 

[Spekulatius]

It should absolutely get investigated what happens in this Wuhan lab at that one and the US should apply pressure tomorrow the Chinese to open the Sarong so to speak. If it want in the lab, we should be able to find the animal host and transfer chain. it should be evident for everyone that after hundred thousands of dead and trillion $ in economic damages throughout the world economy, we need to find out exactly what happened and to prevent this from occurring again.

In the meantime, assume Occam’s razor is correct 80-90% of the time.

I also think we should support Taiwan and give them the 23M/46Mdoses of a vaccine they need to get most of the population vaccinated. That would send a nice signal to allies and a big middle finger to the Chinese who want to sell their lousy vaccine to countries that don’t have any other options.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Spekulatius