Coronavirus

[Liberty]

Excerpt from Scott Gottlieb's plan:

 

https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/national-coronavirus-response-a-road-map-to-reopening/

 

Encourage the Public to Wear Masks.

There is emerging evidence that asymptomatic and presymptomatic transmission of COVID-19 is possible,18 which complicates efforts to pursue case-based interventions. To reduce this risk during Phase I, everyone, including people without symptoms, should be encouraged to wear nonmedical fabric face masks while in public.19

 

Face masks will be most effective at slowing the spread of SARS-CoV-2 if they are widely used, because they may help prevent people who are asymptomatically infected from transmitting the disease unknowingly. Face masks are used widely by members of the public in some countries that have successfully managed their outbreaks, including South Korea and Hong Kong.20 The World Health Organization (WHO) recommended members of the public use face masks in the event of a severe influenza pandemic.21

 

However, personal protective equipment should continue to be reserved for health care workers until supplies are sufficient for them and abundant. For this reason, right now members of the general public should opt to wear nonmedical fabric face masks when going out in public. The CDC should issue guidelines on the proper design of such nonmedical fabric face masks. Consumers may be able to fashion these masks themselves using available washable materials, or they may become available in the consumer marketplace.

[DocSnowball]

Michael Osterholm, Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, interviewed by Peter Attia:

 

https://peterattiamd.com/michaelosterholm/

 

Interesting input on Lancet ID Case fatality rate - if there were a few people dying outside the hospitals in China, then CFR is much higher than the data shows.

[vinod1]

Looks like thousands of American citizens are going to be crucified at the alter of one persons narcissism. A "war time" president who should be facing war criminal charges of epic incompetence.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/31/coronavirus-latest-news/

 

The White House coronavirus task force on Tuesday presented a grim picture of where the U.S. could be heading over the next couple of months, even with interventions like physical distancing. The task force projects 100,000 to 240,000 deaths from the virus, with mitigation.

 

Deborah Birx and Anthony S. Fauci, the leaders of the task force, emphasized that although the projections were likely based on the data that they have seen from the hardest hit locations so far, they were hopeful that they could prevent such a high number of deaths.

 

“Whenever you’re having an effect, it’s not time to take your foot off the accelerator, and on the brake, but to just press it down on the accelerator,” Fauci said of the mitigation efforts. “And that’s what I hope. And I know that we can that do over the next 30 days.”

 

[wisowis]

@tobi started wearing a mask

 

 

but he is having some issues

 

"Practical question though: How do you make your glasses not fog up?"

 

Billionaires.... they are just like the rest of us. :)

 

It's ill-advised, perhaps even Irresponsible for non-experts to promote wearing of masks during a pandemic to a population unaccustomed to wearing masks. New mask wearers will fiddle with the masks from discomfort, thereby increasing their risk of transmission by transfer from their hands.

 

Here are two McGill University medical experts weighing in with that message:

[arcube]

Looks like thousands of American citizens are going to be crucified at the alter of one persons narcissism. A "war time" president who should be facing war criminal charges of epic incompetence.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/31/coronavirus-latest-news/

 

The White House coronavirus task force on Tuesday presented a grim picture of where the U.S. could be heading over the next couple of months, even with interventions like physical distancing. The task force projects 100,000 to 240,000 deaths from the virus, with mitigation.

 

Deborah Birx and Anthony S. Fauci, the leaders of the task force, emphasized that although the projections were likely based on the data that they have seen from the hardest hit locations so far, they were hopeful that they could prevent such a high number of deaths.

 

“Whenever you’re having an effect, it’s not time to take your foot off the accelerator, and on the brake, but to just press it down on the accelerator,” Fauci said of the mitigation efforts. “And that’s what I hope. And I know that we can that do over the next 30 days.”

 

Spot on. The lack of basic understanding shown in early stages of this is beyond belief. I still believe they are downplaying the true possible numbers here. Two more weeks and we will know, by tomorrow US will likely have 200K+ infections.

[Viking]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/hospitals-tell-doctors-they-ll-be-fired-if-they-talk-to-press

 

Hospitals are threatening to fire health-care workers who publicize their working conditions during the coronavirus pandemic -- and have in some cases followed through.

 

Ming Lin, an emergency room physician in Washington state, said he was told Friday he was out of a job because he’d given an interview to a newspaper about a Facebook post detailing what he believed to be inadequate protective equipment and testing. In Chicago, a nurse was fired after emailing colleagues that she wanted to wear a more protective mask while on duty. In New York, the NYU Langone Health system has warned employees they could be terminated if they talk to the media without authorization.

 

 

“Hospitals are muzzling nurses and other health-care workers in an attempt to preserve their image,” said Ruth Schubert, a spokeswoman for the Washington State Nurses Association. “It is outrageous.”

 

When i worked at Kraft Foods (as a sales person) we closed a distribution center and lots of people lost their job. We were told not to talk to the media.

 

While i would like to hear what health care workers have to say i also understand why the companies want to control what is said to the public and media.

[patience_and_focus]

"White House Economists Warned in 2019 a Pandemic Could Devastate America"

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/business/coronavirus-economy-trump.html

 

Some highlights -

- At even the highest rates it modeled, the pandemic flu in the exercise was still less contagious and less deadly than epidemiologists now say the coronavirus could be in the United States.

 

- The study published the previous fall had warned against such a comparison. “People may conflate the high expected costs of pandemic flu with the far more common, lower-cost seasonal flu,” the study said. “It is not surprising that people might underappreciate the economic and health risks posed by pandemic flu and not invest in ways to reduce these risks.”

 

This report was published by white house economists in 2019 (one of the authors who has since left for *American Enterprise Institute* a conservative think tank). The actual report (really good read) -

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Mitigating-the-Impact-of-Pandemic-Influenza-through-Vaccine-Innovation.pdf

[mcliu]

Looks like thousands of American citizens are going to be crucified at the alter of one persons narcissism. A "war time" president who should be facing war criminal charges of epic incompetence.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/31/coronavirus-latest-news/

 

The White House coronavirus task force on Tuesday presented a grim picture of where the U.S. could be heading over the next couple of months, even with interventions like physical distancing. The task force projects 100,000 to 240,000 deaths from the virus, with mitigation.

 

Deborah Birx and Anthony S. Fauci, the leaders of the task force, emphasized that although the projections were likely based on the data that they have seen from the hardest hit locations so far, they were hopeful that they could prevent such a high number of deaths.

 

“Whenever you’re having an effect, it’s not time to take your foot off the accelerator, and on the brake, but to just press it down on the accelerator,” Fauci said of the mitigation efforts. “And that’s what I hope. And I know that we can that do over the next 30 days.”

 

Spot on. The lack of basic understanding shown in early stages of this is beyond belief. I still believe they are downplaying the true possible numbers here. Two more weeks and we will know, by tomorrow US will likely have 200K+ infections.

 

Shouldn’t PM Trudeau in Canada also be guilty of these war crimes? Basically all the political elite in Western countries should face trial?

[gary17]

I think part of the problem is in both case of the US and Canada - a part of them want to believe China was being truthful ... in Canada's case the relationship with China was at a very low point; and it was just not politically right to take a strong action.  I think Justin also wanted to contrast himself from Trump... so it may have also played into his slow response.  He probably wished the whole thing can be controlled / managed; and that he'd be credited for managing this in a very "canadian" way.  this of course backfired - now we have many deaths in Canada and hundreds of billions in debt.

and oil crash was just oil on fire...

 

WHO is also to blame.  The Director General basically was very reluctant to do anything - early on they said no human to human transmission; that got changed.  Then not a global health crisis; got changed.  and finally, reluctantly called this a pandemic.

 

Tredos is from Ethiopia ; was a health minister and a politican.  China gave a lot of aid to Ethiopia -  as much as I like to think there's no influence; i think chances are there is biased decision , cutting china a lot of slack early on.

 

I think history will go down as Justin being a weak leader

and Trump slow to react , but after watching him yesterday and today, the tone has really changed and if i had to bet , i'd say the US at this point forward likely has a better handle on things than Canada.  it'll be interesting to see where everyone is 2 weeks from now.

 

 

[RichardGibbons]

Shouldn’t PM Trudeau in Canada also be guilty of these war crimes? Basically all the political elite in Western countries should face trial?

 

Nope. I'm not a Trudeau fan, but what he did was mostly right.  The biggest mistake he made was waiting too late to close the borders (perhaps taking into account the recommendations of the WHO, under the influence of China). The second biggest mistake was shoving support for Canadians through the EI system, but he rectified fairly quickly with the 75% salary thing.

 

In contrast, other than the smart closing of the border to China, Trump has done more than anyone else on earth, except possibly Xi, to maximize the deaths caused by the pandemic.

[drzola]

Just me but Modi will go down in History as an legitimate humanitarian once and for all if his swift mandatory Country lockdown is preventative enough to keep current forward thinking trends advancing.

Just me here again ranting awaiting mixed modelling results as very slow VPN Ethernet from abode.

 

Stay safe.

[meiroy]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/desperate-for-medical-equipment-states-encounter-a-beleaguered-national-stockpile/2020/03/28/1f4f9a0a-6f82-11ea-aa80-c2470c6b2034_story.html

 

on Feb 5, HHS Secretary Azar requested $2 billion to buy supplies like respirator masks for the national stockpile. That request was cut 75% by the Trump administration

 

"An ounce of prevention..." or another useless saying (for those who will now end up spending pounds and pounds on the cure). Unfortunately a lot of innocent people (restaurant workers, etc) will end up paying for much of the cost, let alone those who lose family members/themselves to this tragic pandemic.

 

Another useless data point for the "nothing could be done anyway" and "we can't blame our leaders" (a.k.a. "keep politics out of this discussion please") crowd. Carry on.

 

They're constantly trying out new narratives to shift the blame elsewhere. We've seen the "blame the governors" and "blame china", and I've seen that recently they've been thinking of trying "the impeachment distracted Trump from focusing on the virus". Just making stuff up to pass the buck, holding the president to the standards of a child rather than someone who should be a competent executive able to deal with multiple complex problems, which is the whole job in the first place..

 

It's so depressing to watch, this propaganda is clearly quite effective,  all over people just gulp it up, spewing this nonsense in response to data.

 

Someone mentioned that perhaps Fox News would be sued for their part.  Unlikely to succeed but it might change something...

 

 

 

[Investor20]

Looks like thousands of American citizens are going to be crucified at the alter of one persons narcissism. A "war time" president who should be facing war criminal charges of epic incompetence.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/31/coronavirus-latest-news/

 

The White House coronavirus task force on Tuesday presented a grim picture of where the U.S. could be heading over the next couple of months, even with interventions like physical distancing. The task force projects 100,000 to 240,000 deaths from the virus, with mitigation.

 

Deborah Birx and Anthony S. Fauci, the leaders of the task force, emphasized that although the projections were likely based on the data that they have seen from the hardest hit locations so far, they were hopeful that they could prevent such a high number of deaths.

 

“Whenever you’re having an effect, it’s not time to take your foot off the accelerator, and on the brake, but to just press it down on the accelerator,” Fauci said of the mitigation efforts. “And that’s what I hope. And I know that we can that do over the next 30 days.”

 

Spot on. The lack of basic understanding shown in early stages of this is beyond belief. I still believe they are downplaying the true possible numbers here. Two more weeks and we will know, by tomorrow US will likely have 200K+ infections.

 

Yes our "experts" showed great lack of understanding in early stages by their own admission.

 

Dr. Fauci said

 

"The American people should not be worried or frightened by this.

 

It's a very, very low risk to the United States," Dr. Fauci said.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/479939-government-health-agency-official-corona-virus-isnt-something-the'

January 26

 

Director Redfield agreed with Dr. Fauci's assessment, saying that at that time in January the information coming out of China suggested "they were pretty certain that this was not transmitted human to human."

 

https://radio.foxnews.com/2020/03/27/cdc-director-reacts-to-resurfaced-tape-of-dr-anthony-fauci-downplaying-virus-threat/

 

I will ask you one thing and its very simple. 

 

On February 5th as they are voting for impeachment, did you spend one second of time on Covid, even though already China had lockdown and US had travel restrictions on January 31st?

 

 

 

 

[Dalal.Holdings]

Looks like thousands of American citizens are going to be crucified at the alter of one persons narcissism. A "war time" president who should be facing war criminal charges of epic incompetence.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/31/coronavirus-latest-news/

 

The White House coronavirus task force on Tuesday presented a grim picture of where the U.S. could be heading over the next couple of months, even with interventions like physical distancing. The task force projects 100,000 to 240,000 deaths from the virus, with mitigation.

 

Deborah Birx and Anthony S. Fauci, the leaders of the task force, emphasized that although the projections were likely based on the data that they have seen from the hardest hit locations so far, they were hopeful that they could prevent such a high number of deaths.

 

“Whenever you’re having an effect, it’s not time to take your foot off the accelerator, and on the brake, but to just press it down on the accelerator,” Fauci said of the mitigation efforts. “And that’s what I hope. And I know that we can that do over the next 30 days.”

 

Spot on. The lack of basic understanding shown in early stages of this is beyond belief. I still believe they are downplaying the true possible numbers here. Two more weeks and we will know, by tomorrow US will likely have 200K+ infections.

 

Yes our "experts" showed great lack of understanding in early stages by their own admission.

 

Dr. Fauci said

 

"The American people should not be worried or frightened by this.

 

It's a very, very low risk to the United States," Dr. Fauci said.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/479939-government-health-agency-official-corona-virus-isnt-something-the'

January 26

 

Director Redfield agreed with Dr. Fauci's assessment, saying that at that time in January the information coming out of China suggested "they were pretty certain that this was not transmitted human to human."

 

https://radio.foxnews.com/2020/03/27/cdc-director-reacts-to-resurfaced-tape-of-dr-anthony-fauci-downplaying-virus-threat/

 

I will ask you one thing and its very simple. 

 

On February 5th as they are voting for impeachment, did you spend one second of time on Covid, even though already China had lockdown and US had travel restrictions on January 31st?

 

Fauci downplayed the threat mid January, but by late January/early Feb the threat was taken seriously and you have evidence of that from congress members dumping shares and Trump putting in place a travel ban to China (and not following any of that up w other measures/FDA & CDC stopping a Seattle ID doc from testing people).

 

WH gets things called intelligence briefings and one might say it’s the executive branch's job to anticipate and prepare for threats like these, but clearly some of us just hold the Presidency to a different standard than others...

 

What’s even more interesting is WH defenders were quick to attack China’s “slow response” and now defend this administration which had multi month head start to prepare and did not. The irony is not apparent to them...

[Liberty]

@tobi started wearing a mask

 

 

but he is having some issues

 

"Practical question though: How do you make your glasses not fog up?"

 

Billionaires.... they are just like the rest of us. :)

 

It's ill-advised, perhaps even Irresponsible for non-experts to promote wearing of masks during a pandemic to a population unaccustomed to wearing masks. New mask wearers will fiddle with the masks from discomfort, thereby increasing their risk of transmission by transfer from their hands.

 

Here are two McGill University medical experts weighing in with that message:

 

No it isn't. Regular masks (not N95) prevent asymptomatic people from infecting others. They're quite effective elsewhere and should be worn by all. They shouldn't replace other measures, and people should be educated about them (as they have been in asia), rather than assume they're too dumb and shouldn't wear them. See:

 

https://medium.com/@Cancerwarrior/covid-19-why-we-should-all-wear-masks-there-is-new-scientific-rationale-280e08ceee71

 

https://medium.com/@thejanellemj/please-join-me-in-wearing-a-mask-71e0e3f4fe4a

 

Otherwise, it's like saying that people shouldn't wash their hands because they might do it badly and get a false sense of protection from it, or whatever...

[Liberty]

Rob Bensinger of the Machine Intelligence Research Institute posted his own Google Doc of notes on COVID19, for those interested:

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/10MFFoUMYHqGB3cLCxuqhsM2kahtOQVybPhLG-YNZdaI/edit

 

Also, Bill Gates calls for nationwide shutdown:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bill-gates-heres-how-to-make-up-for-lost-time-on-covid-19/2020/03/31/ab5c3cf2-738c-11ea-85cb-8670579b863d_story.html

[Investor20]

Looks like thousands of American citizens are going to be crucified at the alter of one persons narcissism. A "war time" president who should be facing war criminal charges of epic incompetence.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/31/coronavirus-latest-news/

 

The White House coronavirus task force on Tuesday presented a grim picture of where the U.S. could be heading over the next couple of months, even with interventions like physical distancing. The task force projects 100,000 to 240,000 deaths from the virus, with mitigation.

 

Deborah Birx and Anthony S. Fauci, the leaders of the task force, emphasized that although the projections were likely based on the data that they have seen from the hardest hit locations so far, they were hopeful that they could prevent such a high number of deaths.

 

“Whenever you’re having an effect, it’s not time to take your foot off the accelerator, and on the brake, but to just press it down on the accelerator,” Fauci said of the mitigation efforts. “And that’s what I hope. And I know that we can that do over the next 30 days.”

 

Spot on. The lack of basic understanding shown in early stages of this is beyond belief. I still believe they are downplaying the true possible numbers here. Two more weeks and we will know, by tomorrow US will likely have 200K+ infections.

 

Yes our "experts" showed great lack of understanding in early stages by their own admission.

 

Dr. Fauci said

 

"The American people should not be worried or frightened by this.

 

It's a very, very low risk to the United States," Dr. Fauci said.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/479939-government-health-agency-official-corona-virus-isnt-something-the'

January 26

 

Director Redfield agreed with Dr. Fauci's assessment, saying that at that time in January the information coming out of China suggested "they were pretty certain that this was not transmitted human to human."

 

https://radio.foxnews.com/2020/03/27/cdc-director-reacts-to-resurfaced-tape-of-dr-anthony-fauci-downplaying-virus-threat/

 

I will ask you one thing and its very simple. 

 

On February 5th as they are voting for impeachment, did you spend one second of time on Covid, even though already China had lockdown and US had travel restrictions on January 31st?

 

Fauci downplayed the threat mid January, but by late January/early Feb the threat was taken seriously and you have evidence of that from congress members dumping shares and Trump putting in place a travel ban to China (and not following any of that up w other measures/FDA & CDC stopping a Seattle ID doc from testing people).

 

WH gets things called intelligence briefings and one might say it’s the executive branch's job to anticipate and prepare for threats like these, but clearly some of us just hold the Presidency to a different standard than others...

 

What’s even more interesting is WH defenders were quick to attack China’s “slow response” and now defend this administration which had multi month head start to prepare and did not. The irony is not apparent to them...

 

I don't want to spend too much time on this.

 

But January 31st travel resitrictions were not supported either by the executive branch advisors or by press.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/30/21115357/coronavirus-outbreak-global-public-emergency-world-health-organization

 

Jan 30:

Despite the emergency declaration, the WHO is not recommending any restrictions on travel or trade at this time. Countries should implement evidence-based public health policies, combat misinformation, share data, and work together to stop the spread of the virus, Adhanom said.

 

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/19/neither-biden-nor-sanders-would-have-saved-american-lives-with-travel-bans-like-trump-did/

 

A contentious exchange during the March 11 House Homeland Security Committee hearing on the coronavirus response revealed this reality. During the hearing, acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli explained he had advised the president to ban travel from China even though “the academic model suggested not to do that.” Cuccinelli further stressed that “the president was well aware” that the existing models recommended against a China travel ban but that Trump nonetheless instituted the ban.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/04/coronavirus-quaratine-travel-110750

Feb 04th

Coronavirus quarantine, travel ban could backfire, experts fear

 

Even as recently as March 1st week, Mayor Blasio recommended movies be watched by NYC residents:

 

March 3rd, Mayor Blasio :....get out of town despite coronavirus..."

 

I want to move on understand the presentation situation, if other members do the same favor

[arcube]

Just me but Modi will go down in History as an legitimate humanitarian once and for all if his swift mandatory Country lockdown is preventative enough to keep current forward thinking trends advancing.

Just me here again ranting awaiting mixed modelling results as very slow VPN Ethernet from abode.

 

Stay safe.

 

Dr. Zola. I hope you are correct and I do believe that Modi played it excellent. Yes some unintended consequences but he listened to the experts. I believe there are separate teams working in the administration and they realized if this gets out of hand, the consequences would be dire.

 

He has communicated like a statesman and championed healthcare workers and made people part of the mission. I really hope India contains it - most infections came from Italy there. The dire measure was taken at the right time. The earlier stages are the opportunity to cut the snake's head ...A bold decision indeed.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hoping the best for India and the entire world.

 

MODI ji is working tirelessly with a massive team of 30 Experts consisting of Doctors, Scientists and Economists, each working as separate group. Theu got split into two Groups which again got split into 3 or 4 members in each to maintain Social Distancing.

 

Team-1 has 20 Specialist Experts headed by Dr.V.K.PAUL, member of Niti Ayog. It aids in taking key decisions based on minute-to-minute technical data and convey it to the PM. The status of Virus, how fast it is spreading among the masses, for how many it could spread in due course and the possible intermission etc. 

 

Mr.Priti Sudan, Union Health Secretary, Dr. Randeep Guleria, Director AIIMS, Dr. Balaram Bhargav, Director ICMR, backed by a battery of experts in Mirco-Biology, Dr. Raman Gangakhadekar, Cheif Epidemic Specialist and Dr. Nivedita Gupta also make the team. Many geniuses are involved in the exercise of "Mathematical Modelling" of the virus from Institute of Epidemiology who present Daily Report to the PM each Night.  

 

The Team-2 of 10 Experts is lead by Mr.K. Vijaya Raghavan, Technical Adviser to PM.  Both these teams were constituted earl this month itself and are working in tandem. They submit their views to the PM through Mr. P.K. Mishra, Principal Secretary to the PM. On important points the PM directly interacts and seeks clarification with every individual member of the Team.

 

The 21 days Lockdown is the result of huge research work and collective decision of all these experts who solidly stand behind Modiji. Initially only 14 days Lockdown was proposed but it was extended as the virus had already entered the country with full vigor. Firstly it was decided to conduct testing only on those who return from other countries. Later ICMR decided to test all those who are likely to have contacted them. 

 

Modiji is working with CSIR, DRDO, CCMB, ICMR, Indian Institute of Virology, Institute of Physics, Institutes of Engineers and holding consultations regularly each day 24x7. 

 

Based on the data received from various countries on Covide-19, its impact on the people and financial and economic strength of the Nation decisions are taken swiftly and directions are given to the Task Force.

 

PM Modiji while ensuring that these measures are put into action swiftly, also holding detailed discussion with Chief Secretary, Finance and the RBI constantly, to gauge the impact of this virus on the economy of the Country and each individual family - esp those falling BPL, small traders, small industries, Middle/salaried class who are pay EMI towards various loans. Every tiny aspect concerning right from a Giant Corporate upto the daily wage-earner or village artisan are kept in view in all these decisions taken by all these Experts who are on tenterhooks all the time and at the call of PM Modiji. Modiji had extended his hours of work from 18 to 22 hours/day. On the other hand he humbly begs pardon from All of us for the  "inconvenience" caused!!

 

[arcube]

Looks like thousands of American citizens are going to be crucified at the alter of one persons narcissism. A "war time" president who should be facing war criminal charges of epic incompetence.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/31/coronavirus-latest-news/

 

The White House coronavirus task force on Tuesday presented a grim picture of where the U.S. could be heading over the next couple of months, even with interventions like physical distancing. The task force projects 100,000 to 240,000 deaths from the virus, with mitigation.

 

Deborah Birx and Anthony S. Fauci, the leaders of the task force, emphasized that although the projections were likely based on the data that they have seen from the hardest hit locations so far, they were hopeful that they could prevent such a high number of deaths.

 

“Whenever you’re having an effect, it’s not time to take your foot off the accelerator, and on the brake, but to just press it down on the accelerator,” Fauci said of the mitigation efforts. “And that’s what I hope. And I know that we can that do over the next 30 days.”

 

Spot on. The lack of basic understanding shown in early stages of this is beyond belief. I still believe they are downplaying the true possible numbers here. Two more weeks and we will know, by tomorrow US will likely have 200K+ infections.

 

Yes our "experts" showed great lack of understanding in early stages by their own admission.

 

Dr. Fauci said

 

"The American people should not be worried or frightened by this.

 

It's a very, very low risk to the United States," Dr. Fauci said.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/479939-government-health-agency-official-corona-virus-isnt-something-the'

January 26

 

Director Redfield agreed with Dr. Fauci's assessment, saying that at that time in January the information coming out of China suggested "they were pretty certain that this was not transmitted human to human."

 

https://radio.foxnews.com/2020/03/27/cdc-director-reacts-to-resurfaced-tape-of-dr-anthony-fauci-downplaying-virus-threat/

 

I will ask you one thing and its very simple. 

 

On February 5th as they are voting for impeachment, did you spend one second of time on Covid, even though already China had lockdown and US had travel restrictions on January 31st?

 

Fauci downplayed the threat mid January, but by late January/early Feb the threat was taken seriously and you have evidence of that from congress members dumping shares and Trump putting in place a travel ban to China (and not following any of that up w other measures/FDA & CDC stopping a Seattle ID doc from testing people).

 

WH gets things called intelligence briefings and one might say it’s the executive branch's job to anticipate and prepare for threats like these, but clearly some of us just hold the Presidency to a different standard than others...

 

What’s even more interesting is WH defenders were quick to attack China’s “slow response” and now defend this administration which had multi month head start to prepare and did not. The irony is not apparent to them...

 

I don't want to spend too much time on this.

 

But January 31st travel resitrictions were not supported either by the executive branch advisors or by press.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/30/21115357/coronavirus-outbreak-global-public-emergency-world-health-organization

 

Jan 30:

Despite the emergency declaration, the WHO is not recommending any restrictions on travel or trade at this time. Countries should implement evidence-based public health policies, combat misinformation, share data, and work together to stop the spread of the virus, Adhanom said.

 

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/19/neither-biden-nor-sanders-would-have-saved-american-lives-with-travel-bans-like-trump-did/

 

A contentious exchange during the March 11 House Homeland Security Committee hearing on the coronavirus response revealed this reality. During the hearing, acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli explained he had advised the president to ban travel from China even though “the academic model suggested not to do that.” Cuccinelli further stressed that “the president was well aware” that the existing models recommended against a China travel ban but that Trump nonetheless instituted the ban.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/04/coronavirus-quaratine-travel-110750

Feb 04th

Coronavirus quarantine, travel ban could backfire, experts fear

 

Even as recently as March 1st week, Mayor Blasio recommended movies be watched by NYC residents:

 

March 3rd, Mayor Blasio :....get out of town despite coronavirus..."

 

I want to move on understand the presentation situation, if other members do the same favor

 

Go ahead start blaming the WHO and Impeachment and feel good about yourself.

[Dalal.Holdings]

 

I don't want to spend too much time on this.

 

But January 31st travel resitrictions were not supported either by the executive branch advisors or by press.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/30/21115357/coronavirus-outbreak-global-public-emergency-world-health-organization

 

Jan 30:

Despite the emergency declaration, the WHO is not recommending any restrictions on travel or trade at this time. Countries should implement evidence-based public health policies, combat misinformation, share data, and work together to stop the spread of the virus, Adhanom said.

 

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/19/neither-biden-nor-sanders-would-have-saved-american-lives-with-travel-bans-like-trump-did/

 

A contentious exchange during the March 11 House Homeland Security Committee hearing on the coronavirus response revealed this reality. During the hearing, acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli explained he had advised the president to ban travel from China even though “the academic model suggested not to do that.” Cuccinelli further stressed that “the president was well aware” that the existing models recommended against a China travel ban but that Trump nonetheless instituted the ban.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/04/coronavirus-quaratine-travel-110750

Feb 04th

Coronavirus quarantine, travel ban could backfire, experts fear

 

Even as recently as March 1st week, Mayor Blasio recommended movies be watched by NYC residents:

 

March 3rd, Mayor Blasio :....get out of town despite coronavirus..."

 

I want to move on understand the presentation situation, if other members do the same favor

 

Yeah, De Blasio also managed this terribly. WHO has been mocked by many for a while (esp for not recommending masks). Cuomo has been doing well however IMO. Many people (even on this forum) dismissed this threat as recently as a week ago. These people did not sign up to be POTUS, so the magnitude of damage from their errors is contained.

 

I expect a POTUS to overreact (not listen to "academic models") and invoke precautionary principle when it comes to nat'l security. Especially when the threat is clearly playing out in the same way across the world. Like I said, different standards for POTUS among people. He did overreact with the travel ban, but did not follow this up with any other effective actions. His repertoire seems limited to tax cuts, tariffs, and travel bans, hence his limitations as a leader and the crisis we now have unfolding in the United States with ~200k positive cases despite being among the last countries to get this outbreak.

 

Oh, and let's leave out calling this "like the flu" or a "hoax" or saying we'll be "back online by Easter"

[Guest cherzeca]

Looks like thousands of American citizens are going to be crucified at the alter of one persons narcissism. A "war time" president who should be facing war criminal charges of epic incompetence.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/31/coronavirus-latest-news/

 

The White House coronavirus task force on Tuesday presented a grim picture of where the U.S. could be heading over the next couple of months, even with interventions like physical distancing. The task force projects 100,000 to 240,000 deaths from the virus, with mitigation.

 

Deborah Birx and Anthony S. Fauci, the leaders of the task force, emphasized that although the projections were likely based on the data that they have seen from the hardest hit locations so far, they were hopeful that they could prevent such a high number of deaths.

 

“Whenever you’re having an effect, it’s not time to take your foot off the accelerator, and on the brake, but to just press it down on the accelerator,” Fauci said of the mitigation efforts. “And that’s what I hope. And I know that we can that do over the next 30 days.”

 

Spot on. The lack of basic understanding shown in early stages of this is beyond belief. I still believe they are downplaying the true possible numbers here. Two more weeks and we will know, by tomorrow US will likely have 200K+ infections.

 

Yes our "experts" showed great lack of understanding in early stages by their own admission.

 

Dr. Fauci said

 

"The American people should not be worried or frightened by this.

 

It's a very, very low risk to the United States," Dr. Fauci said.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/479939-government-health-agency-official-corona-virus-isnt-something-the'

January 26

 

Director Redfield agreed with Dr. Fauci's assessment, saying that at that time in January the information coming out of China suggested "they were pretty certain that this was not transmitted human to human."

 

https://radio.foxnews.com/2020/03/27/cdc-director-reacts-to-resurfaced-tape-of-dr-anthony-fauci-downplaying-virus-threat/

 

I will ask you one thing and its very simple. 

 

On February 5th as they are voting for impeachment, did you spend one second of time on Covid, even though already China had lockdown and US had travel restrictions on January 31st?

 

+1

[mcliu]

Shouldn’t PM Trudeau in Canada also be guilty of these war crimes? Basically all the political elite in Western countries should face trial?

 

Nope. I'm not a Trudeau fan, but what he did was mostly right.  The biggest mistake he made was waiting too late to close the borders (perhaps taking into account the recommendations of the WHO, under the influence of China). The second biggest mistake was shoving support for Canadians through the EI system, but he rectified fairly quickly with the 75% salary thing.

 

In contrast, other than the smart closing of the border to China, Trump has done more than anyone else on earth, except possibly Xi, to maximize the deaths caused by the pandemic.

 

Do you have a timeline that shows what Trudeau did was mostly right? I still remember him encouraging people going to eat at Chinese restaurants (on FB) in Late Feb / early March. It feels like we’ve been a many steps behind the US. Even today, data collection is spotty and testing is slow with a big backlog..

[Liberty]

https://80000hours.org/articles/covid-19-what-should-you-do/

[KCLarkin]

Shouldn’t PM Trudeau in Canada also be guilty of these war crimes? Basically all the political elite in Western countries should face trial?

 

1. US is ~3 to 4 higher per capita in cases and deaths

2. A very large portion of Canadian cases were imported from the US and Europe, not China. In Ontario, we were confirming patients returning from Las Vegas before there were even confirmed positives in Nevada.

[wisowis]

@tobi started wearing a mask

 

 

but he is having some issues

 

"Practical question though: How do you make your glasses not fog up?"

 

Billionaires.... they are just like the rest of us. :)

 

It's ill-advised, perhaps even Irresponsible for non-experts to promote wearing of masks during a pandemic to a population unaccustomed to wearing masks. New mask wearers will fiddle with the masks from discomfort, thereby increasing their risk of transmission by transfer from their hands.

 

Here are two McGill University medical experts weighing in with that message:

 

No it isn't. Regular masks (not N95) prevent asymptomatic people from infecting others. They're quite effective elsewhere and should be worn by all. They shouldn't replace other measures, and people should be educated about them (as they have been in asia), rather than assume they're too dumb and shouldn't wear them. See:

 

https://medium.com/@Cancerwarrior/covid-19-why-we-should-all-wear-masks-there-is-new-scientific-rationale-280e08ceee71

 

https://medium.com/@thejanellemj/please-join-me-in-wearing-a-mask-71e0e3f4fe4a

 

Otherwise, it's like saying that people shouldn't wash their hands because they might do it badly and get a false sense of protection from it, or whatever...

 

It's not about people being dumb. It's not even necessarily about education. It's instinct. When you first grow a beard, it will be itchy, and you WILL scratch it. But you get used to it over time.

 

If you want to get a population used to wearing masks, you want them to get used to it OUTSIDE of a pandemic, because INSIDE of a pandemic, face-touching is a major cause of transmission.

 

You have exhibit A above. Tobi wears a mask, and his glasses fog up. What does he do next?

 

I am asking for the evidence that shows that new mask-wearers won't touch their face, not for evidence that masks work to prevent aerosol-based transmission.