Berkshire Hathaway - Insurance Operations

[John Hjorth]

7 hours ago, Hektor said:

https://www.wsj.com/finance/investing/berkshire-hathaway-succession-insurance-003dcf86

 

Replacing Warren Buffett’s Insurance Mastermind Is Berkshire’s Next Succession Mystery

Who should take over for Ajit Jain when he’s ready to step down? Berkshire watchers have some ideas.

 

It does not dress that WSJ reporter Heather Gillers well that way to basically copy Chris Bloomstrans thread on X about the topic at hand.

[DooDiligence]

Berkshires Three advertising on Reddit.

 

 

[MarioP]

My son in law own a business in Canada. Two years ago he opened a subsidary in Boston. He told me that the only thing missing was insurance coverage. I recommended hum that he check with Three from Berkshire. Couple of days later he told me that Three has the best service, coverage and price of all the compagnies he contacted.

[Libs]

https://www.reinsurancene.ws/waymo-shows-90-fewer-claims-than-advanced-human-driven-vehicles-swiss-re/

 

 

This is the second such report I've seen recently. I wonder what the implications for auto insurers are.

[Blugolds]

15 minutes ago, Libs said:

https://www.reinsurancene.ws/waymo-shows-90-fewer-claims-than-advanced-human-driven-vehicles-swiss-re/

 

 

This is the second such report I've seen recently. I wonder what the implications for auto insurers are.

 

I often hypothesized about this several years ago when I first heard of autonomous driving, when it becomes well established fact that it is a safer option (I dont think we are there yet) how the insurance industry will adjust as well as laws. Could it get to a point where it is deemed "unsafe" for human control of a vehicle? Reserved only for collector cars etc. Will laws eventually reflect that? Penalties for human operation? Special acceptations for driving non autonomous vehicles similar to collector plates on vehicles now that allow for operation during certain times of the year and must have a separate primary vehicle registered as daily driver...

 

And if laws do not reflect this, do the insurance companies penalize human operation so severally via premiums that it effectively becomes law? ie. current premiums become autonomous rates (benefit ins companies) and policies with human operation stipulation carry a higher premium as penalty? It eventually becomes cost prohibitive to own a non-autonomous vehicle? 

 

I find it all very interesting, I like to think about my grandpa that passed away several years ago at 91 and his stories of the model A in his local towns in upstate NY. the drastic changes in vehicles in the last 30 years...from 1931 --early to mid 1980's depending on the manufacturer, vehicles remained largely unchanged, internal combustion, carburetor,, drum to disc brakes, improved steering geometry and control, improved suspension, but if you spend any time in a 1979 F150 (my favorite) or chevy, or even a dodge pickup from the early 1990's (they lagged the other 2 IMO) they were rather primitive.

 

With the introduction of EFI there was a relatively stable period of 10-20 years with some creature comfort changes, things like electronic sunroofs, CD players, heated seats, more emissions stuff, but even a Silverado from circa 2010 is fairly simple outside of their AFM or equivalent cylinder deactivation. Within the last 10 years vehicles have changed drastically IMO, the simpler vehicles are still available in some makes/models but are becoming harder to find outside of very base models such as a corolla. They all have very significant electronic controls, touch screens, VVT, variable geometry turbos, hybrids, full electric options and now autonomous driving. I spent a winter daily driving a 1979 F150 4x4 pickup with a 4spd, I loved the truck but it was work to drive, I enjoy shifting, but the heater barely kept up, drove like a "truck" no anti-lock brakes, had to have your head in the game and although I enjoyed it, there was absolutely nothing comfortable about it. Starting in the morning took several pumps on the carb to get it to pop off, and this was all normal in our lifetimes, I sometimes think about what my boys will think in another 20-40 years, about how we used to "drive" a vehicle, and had to stop to fill up the gas tank etc. Will it all seem so hard to imagine, like those stories from gramps in the model A. 

 

If they do get to autonomous normality lets call it, and you can "rent out" your vehicle to uber while you work rather than it sitting in the parking lot, what does that make the value of the vehicle that can produce income while you work/sleep etc. Who owns them? Could it get to point that they are always available and sitting around like those stupid green scooters in every major metropolitan area? Forget the boys being shocked that we "drove" and fille dup with gas, could it get to a point that they are surprised we owned a car? Or multiple vehicles for every driver? Europe already is better for someone who doesnt own a vehicle to get around by a factor of about 100, but could that come to the states, rather than mass public transportation options, does it shift to mass privately owned public transportation? 

 

Fun to speculate, and as a self proclaimed gearhead. I am both excited to see what transpires while also remaining nostalgic for the simplicity of years past, while also being cautious about what it will mean for the avg consumer and how they could get screwed. Do the premiums for non autonomous get so high that they are reserved for only the top income class as a status symbol, while also able to be the only ones who can afford to buy said autonomous vehicle that also generates them an acceptable ROI, but the avg joe "should" be happy because it has never been easier to get around and they dont have the maintenance, upkeep, insurance etc to worry about...all those costs (plus a little more) are now baked in to your price-per-ride. Similar to how every complained about $130/mo for cable television and was excited to have options like Hulu/Netflix/Disney etc. for $10/mo only for everyone to just pay several separate subscription fees to equal or exceed the original $130/mo anyway... and then those providers consolidate giving them pricing power and the ability to raise fees etc, you can go without television subs, but its pretty tough to do with transportation. 

 

Anyway Im rambling, but this is where my head goes when I start down the rabbit hole trying to predict the future. 

[gfp]

https://www.insuranceinsiderus.com/article/2fpag9w4jb9qrxs9t47i8/lines-of-business/d-o-directors-and-officers/berkshire-hathaway-leads-300mn-d-o-tower-for-first-brands

 

Berkshire Hathaway leads $300mn D&O tower for First Brands

The policy includes a $200mn limit with an additional $100mn for side A coverage.

[Hektor]

21 hours ago, Blugolds said:

 

I often hypothesized about this several years ago when I first heard of autonomous driving, when it becomes well established fact that it is a safer option (I dont think we are there yet) how the insurance industry will adjust as well as laws. Could it get to a point where it is deemed "unsafe" for human control of a vehicle? Reserved only for collector cars etc. Will laws eventually reflect that? Penalties for human operation? Special acceptations for driving non autonomous vehicles similar to collector plates on vehicles now that allow for operation during certain times of the year and must have a separate primary vehicle registered as daily driver...

 

And if laws do not reflect this, do the insurance companies penalize human operation so severally via premiums that it effectively becomes law? ie. current premiums become autonomous rates (benefit ins companies) and policies with human operation stipulation carry a higher premium as penalty? It eventually becomes cost prohibitive to own a non-autonomous vehicle? 

 

I find it all very interesting, I like to think about my grandpa that passed away several years ago at 91 and his stories of the model A in his local towns in upstate NY. the drastic changes in vehicles in the last 30 years...from 1931 --early to mid 1980's depending on the manufacturer, vehicles remained largely unchanged, internal combustion, carburetor,, drum to disc brakes, improved steering geometry and control, improved suspension, but if you spend any time in a 1979 F150 (my favorite) or chevy, or even a dodge pickup from the early 1990's (they lagged the other 2 IMO) they were rather primitive.

 

With the introduction of EFI there was a relatively stable period of 10-20 years with some creature comfort changes, things like electronic sunroofs, CD players, heated seats, more emissions stuff, but even a Silverado from circa 2010 is fairly simple outside of their AFM or equivalent cylinder deactivation. Within the last 10 years vehicles have changed drastically IMO, the simpler vehicles are still available in some makes/models but are becoming harder to find outside of very base models such as a corolla. They all have very significant electronic controls, touch screens, VVT, variable geometry turbos, hybrids, full electric options and now autonomous driving. I spent a winter daily driving a 1979 F150 4x4 pickup with a 4spd, I loved the truck but it was work to drive, I enjoy shifting, but the heater barely kept up, drove like a "truck" no anti-lock brakes, had to have your head in the game and although I enjoyed it, there was absolutely nothing comfortable about it. Starting in the morning took several pumps on the carb to get it to pop off, and this was all normal in our lifetimes, I sometimes think about what my boys will think in another 20-40 years, about how we used to "drive" a vehicle, and had to stop to fill up the gas tank etc. Will it all seem so hard to imagine, like those stories from gramps in the model A. 

 

If they do get to autonomous normality lets call it, and you can "rent out" your vehicle to uber while you work rather than it sitting in the parking lot, what does that make the value of the vehicle that can produce income while you work/sleep etc. Who owns them? Could it get to point that they are always available and sitting around like those stupid green scooters in every major metropolitan area? Forget the boys being shocked that we "drove" and fille dup with gas, could it get to a point that they are surprised we owned a car? Or multiple vehicles for every driver? Europe already is better for someone who doesnt own a vehicle to get around by a factor of about 100, but could that come to the states, rather than mass public transportation options, does it shift to mass privately owned public transportation? 

 

Fun to speculate, and as a self proclaimed gearhead. I am both excited to see what transpires while also remaining nostalgic for the simplicity of years past, while also being cautious about what it will mean for the avg consumer and how they could get screwed. Do the premiums for non autonomous get so high that they are reserved for only the top income class as a status symbol, while also able to be the only ones who can afford to buy said autonomous vehicle that also generates them an acceptable ROI, but the avg joe "should" be happy because it has never been easier to get around and they dont have the maintenance, upkeep, insurance etc to worry about...all those costs (plus a little more) are now baked in to your price-per-ride. Similar to how every complained about $130/mo for cable television and was excited to have options like Hulu/Netflix/Disney etc. for $10/mo only for everyone to just pay several separate subscription fees to equal or exceed the original $130/mo anyway... and then those providers consolidate giving them pricing power and the ability to raise fees etc, you can go without television subs, but its pretty tough to do with transportation. 

 

Anyway Im rambling, but this is where my head goes when I start down the rabbit hole trying to predict the future. 

Interesting thought. Thanks @Blugolds

[bizaro86]

On 12/9/2025 at 6:15 PM, Blugolds said:

 

 

And if laws do not reflect this, do the insurance companies penalize human operation so severally via premiums that it effectively becomes law? ie. current premiums become autonomous rates (benefit ins companies) and policies with human operation stipulation carry a higher premium as penalty? It eventually becomes cost prohibitive to own a non-autonomous vehicle? 

 

I don't think auto insurers will be able to keep the cost savings if claims go way down due to autonomous. I think theres nearly 100% chance those savings get competed away and go to consumers.

 

So I'd say if autonomous proves out those with autonomous will pay less and combined ratios will stay about the same.

[Spekulatius]

On 12/9/2025 at 8:15 PM, Blugolds said:

 

I often hypothesized about this several years ago when I first heard of autonomous driving, when it becomes well established fact that it is a safer option (I dont think we are there yet) how the insurance industry will adjust as well as laws. Could it get to a point where it is deemed "unsafe" for human control of a vehicle? Reserved only for collector cars etc. Will laws eventually reflect that? Penalties for human operation? Special acceptations for driving non autonomous vehicles similar to collector plates on vehicles now that allow for operation during certain times of the year and must have a separate primary vehicle registered as daily driver...

 

And if laws do not reflect this, do the insurance companies penalize human operation so severally via premiums that it effectively becomes law? ie. current premiums become autonomous rates (benefit ins companies) and policies with human operation stipulation carry a higher premium as penalty? It eventually becomes cost prohibitive to own a non-autonomous vehicle? 

 

I find it all very interesting, I like to think about my grandpa that passed away several years ago at 91 and his stories of the model A in his local towns in upstate NY. the drastic changes in vehicles in the last 30 years...from 1931 --early to mid 1980's depending on the manufacturer, vehicles remained largely unchanged, internal combustion, carburetor,, drum to disc brakes, improved steering geometry and control, improved suspension, but if you spend any time in a 1979 F150 (my favorite) or chevy, or even a dodge pickup from the early 1990's (they lagged the other 2 IMO) they were rather primitive.

 

With the introduction of EFI there was a relatively stable period of 10-20 years with some creature comfort changes, things like electronic sunroofs, CD players, heated seats, more emissions stuff, but even a Silverado from circa 2010 is fairly simple outside of their AFM or equivalent cylinder deactivation. Within the last 10 years vehicles have changed drastically IMO, the simpler vehicles are still available in some makes/models but are becoming harder to find outside of very base models such as a corolla. They all have very significant electronic controls, touch screens, VVT, variable geometry turbos, hybrids, full electric options and now autonomous driving. I spent a winter daily driving a 1979 F150 4x4 pickup with a 4spd, I loved the truck but it was work to drive, I enjoy shifting, but the heater barely kept up, drove like a "truck" no anti-lock brakes, had to have your head in the game and although I enjoyed it, there was absolutely nothing comfortable about it. Starting in the morning took several pumps on the carb to get it to pop off, and this was all normal in our lifetimes, I sometimes think about what my boys will think in another 20-40 years, about how we used to "drive" a vehicle, and had to stop to fill up the gas tank etc. Will it all seem so hard to imagine, like those stories from gramps in the model A. 

 

If they do get to autonomous normality lets call it, and you can "rent out" your vehicle to uber while you work rather than it sitting in the parking lot, what does that make the value of the vehicle that can produce income while you work/sleep etc. Who owns them? Could it get to point that they are always available and sitting around like those stupid green scooters in every major metropolitan area? Forget the boys being shocked that we "drove" and fille dup with gas, could it get to a point that they are surprised we owned a car? Or multiple vehicles for every driver? Europe already is better for someone who doesnt own a vehicle to get around by a factor of about 100, but could that come to the states, rather than mass public transportation options, does it shift to mass privately owned public transportation? 

 

Fun to speculate, and as a self proclaimed gearhead. I am both excited to see what transpires while also remaining nostalgic for the simplicity of years past, while also being cautious about what it will mean for the avg consumer and how they could get screwed. Do the premiums for non autonomous get so high that they are reserved for only the top income class as a status symbol, while also able to be the only ones who can afford to buy said autonomous vehicle that also generates them an acceptable ROI, but the avg joe "should" be happy because it has never been easier to get around and they dont have the maintenance, upkeep, insurance etc to worry about...all those costs (plus a little more) are now baked in to your price-per-ride. Similar to how every complained about $130/mo for cable television and was excited to have options like Hulu/Netflix/Disney etc. for $10/mo only for everyone to just pay several separate subscription fees to equal or exceed the original $130/mo anyway... and then those providers consolidate giving them pricing power and the ability to raise fees etc, you can go without television subs, but its pretty tough to do with transportation. 

 

Anyway Im rambling, but this is where my head goes when I start down the rabbit hole trying to predict the future. 

I think if self driving cars remain expansive due to the all the electronics required then we likely end up with a subscription model where you pay for access rather than one a vehicle outright.

 

I don’t think the Uber model will work, because cars tend to get used at the same time (commute times) so users will somehow guarantee it when they need it or surge pricing  could become a huge issue.

[gfp]

Personally I think large pickup trucks driven by humans will remain on US roads for our entire lifetimes.  The use case of towing, loading equipment, specialized tool storage, hard hauling, dumping, loading ladders and lumber - none of that is going full self driving in our lifetimes.  Nobody is going to launch a boat with autonomous driving.  Jury is out on wether they are allowed to tow at all under FSD software rules (not talking about semis here).  Luckily for Ford, GM and Ram - these are the profitable parts of their business.  Otherwise they would be in a really bad place.

 

As for full self driving cars being expensive or ubiquitous?  They will be cheap like a current Tesla and even cheaper if Chinese vehicles are somehow allowed in.  We essentially have already cracked full self driving.

 

Waymos are too expensive and too few in number.  There will be millions of hardware capable teslas on the road and a tesla is not out of line on price with the price of a comparable ICE vehicle.

 

We have more and more tenants who don't own their own cars.  No insurance bill (very expensive in Louisiana), no auto payment or associated purchase price, no worries that the windows are going to be smashed in the night.  One is a touring musician and he just rents a car when he's in town and needs one.  He and others also use uber to fill in here and there.  Many young people are already treating cars like SaaS.  And it is already saving them money and headaches.

Edited December 14, 2025 by gfp

[DooDiligence]

Time to renew my auto policy and Progressive is jacking up their rate by 30ish%, pretty much matching a GEICO quote. I've been getting mailers from GEICO since last month (before I learned about the increase at Progressive). Gonna shop around and likely stay with Progressive unless something better comes up. GEICO would be my last choice.

[DooDiligence]

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/breaking-news/berkshire-hathaway-overtakes-allianz-as-worlds-largest-insurer-by-assets-561085.aspx

[DooDiligence]

Finally renewed with Progressive. Went over and got quotes from Liberty (great online application experience, easy to see updated pricing with coverage changes, but higher quote), and GEICO (abysmal online application experience and higher quote for less coverage). Ted may have hit the exits with a profit for the business but he ran off a lot of good risk and left a terrible online framework that I'd be willing to bet gets a lot of bounces mid quote. Progressive is gonna continue to smoke them.

[DooDiligence]

"For multi-entity policyholders in emerging industries like cannabis, the gap between who pays premiums and who actually appears on the named-insured schedule can become a coverage flashpoint. And the duty-to-defend analysis, as always, turns on what the complaint alleges, not what actually happened — a distinction that continues to catch insurers off guard."

 

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/workers-comp/court-rules-berkshire-hathaway-must-defend-trulieve-in-cannabis-worker-death-suit-570873.aspx

[rogermunibond]

Soft market 

 

[rogermunibond]

[Intelligent_Investor]

On 12/9/2025 at 7:15 PM, Blugolds said:

 

I often hypothesized about this several years ago when I first heard of autonomous driving, when it becomes well established fact that it is a safer option (I dont think we are there yet) how the insurance industry will adjust as well as laws. Could it get to a point where it is deemed "unsafe" for human control of a vehicle? Reserved only for collector cars etc. Will laws eventually reflect that? Penalties for human operation? Special acceptations for driving non autonomous vehicles similar to collector plates on vehicles now that allow for operation during certain times of the year and must have a separate primary vehicle registered as daily driver...

 

And if laws do not reflect this, do the insurance companies penalize human operation so severally via premiums that it effectively becomes law? ie. current premiums become autonomous rates (benefit ins companies) and policies with human operation stipulation carry a higher premium as penalty? It eventually becomes cost prohibitive to own a non-autonomous vehicle? 

 

I find it all very interesting, I like to think about my grandpa that passed away several years ago at 91 and his stories of the model A in his local towns in upstate NY. the drastic changes in vehicles in the last 30 years...from 1931 --early to mid 1980's depending on the manufacturer, vehicles remained largely unchanged, internal combustion, carburetor,, drum to disc brakes, improved steering geometry and control, improved suspension, but if you spend any time in a 1979 F150 (my favorite) or chevy, or even a dodge pickup from the early 1990's (they lagged the other 2 IMO) they were rather primitive.

 

With the introduction of EFI there was a relatively stable period of 10-20 years with some creature comfort changes, things like electronic sunroofs, CD players, heated seats, more emissions stuff, but even a Silverado from circa 2010 is fairly simple outside of their AFM or equivalent cylinder deactivation. Within the last 10 years vehicles have changed drastically IMO, the simpler vehicles are still available in some makes/models but are becoming harder to find outside of very base models such as a corolla. They all have very significant electronic controls, touch screens, VVT, variable geometry turbos, hybrids, full electric options and now autonomous driving. I spent a winter daily driving a 1979 F150 4x4 pickup with a 4spd, I loved the truck but it was work to drive, I enjoy shifting, but the heater barely kept up, drove like a "truck" no anti-lock brakes, had to have your head in the game and although I enjoyed it, there was absolutely nothing comfortable about it. Starting in the morning took several pumps on the carb to get it to pop off, and this was all normal in our lifetimes, I sometimes think about what my boys will think in another 20-40 years, about how we used to "drive" a vehicle, and had to stop to fill up the gas tank etc. Will it all seem so hard to imagine, like those stories from gramps in the model A. 

 

If they do get to autonomous normality lets call it, and you can "rent out" your vehicle to uber while you work rather than it sitting in the parking lot, what does that make the value of the vehicle that can produce income while you work/sleep etc. Who owns them? Could it get to point that they are always available and sitting around like those stupid green scooters in every major metropolitan area? Forget the boys being shocked that we "drove" and fille dup with gas, could it get to a point that they are surprised we owned a car? Or multiple vehicles for every driver? Europe already is better for someone who doesnt own a vehicle to get around by a factor of about 100, but could that come to the states, rather than mass public transportation options, does it shift to mass privately owned public transportation? 

 

Fun to speculate, and as a self proclaimed gearhead. I am both excited to see what transpires while also remaining nostalgic for the simplicity of years past, while also being cautious about what it will mean for the avg consumer and how they could get screwed. Do the premiums for non autonomous get so high that they are reserved for only the top income class as a status symbol, while also able to be the only ones who can afford to buy said autonomous vehicle that also generates them an acceptable ROI, but the avg joe "should" be happy because it has never been easier to get around and they dont have the maintenance, upkeep, insurance etc to worry about...all those costs (plus a little more) are now baked in to your price-per-ride. Similar to how every complained about $130/mo for cable television and was excited to have options like Hulu/Netflix/Disney etc. for $10/mo only for everyone to just pay several separate subscription fees to equal or exceed the original $130/mo anyway... and then those providers consolidate giving them pricing power and the ability to raise fees etc, you can go without television subs, but its pretty tough to do with transportation. 

 

Anyway Im rambling, but this is where my head goes when I start down the rabbit hole trying to predict the future. 

Doubt it, until the liability concerns around autonomous are resolved. If the computer is driving the car and kills someone who is responsible? There could still be lots of liability there. Additionally, my experience with self driving tech is that it is not necessarily "safer" than better human drivers...in fact a self driving vehicle, at least consumer grade, would likely score very low on most insurance telematics. They frequently brake or accelerate hard, and would appear the same profile as an extremely reckless human driver - they also seem programmed to follow very closely behind other vehicles.