Mephistopheles Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 No other nation does that. Threathening with force Taiwan if they ever wanted to become independent. Cardboard Yes, the US would never threaten a state with force if it wanted to become independent. That would never happen/has never happened. +1 awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 No other nation does that. Threathening with force Taiwan if they ever wanted to become independent. Cardboard Yes, the US would never threaten a state with force if it wanted to become independent. That would never happen/has never happened. Lol - that pretty much describes our foreign policy strategy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Eriksen Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 No other nation does that. Threathening with force Taiwan if they ever wanted to become independent. Cardboard Yes, the US would never threaten a state with force if it wanted to become independent. That would never happen/has never happened. Lol - that pretty much describes our foreign policy strategy... Please notice he cut off the first part of the quote making the comment about Taiwan when it was about what preceded it. By the way Taiwan is independent. It is not about becoming independent. China wants to absorb them. One China policy is the dumbest policy and it is embarrassing that administrations in both parties have supported it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 So far I see a net negative based on his executive actions: I'm ambivalent on the trade deal renegotiations and pipeline. The big negative is the censorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Eriksen Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 So far I see a net negative based on his executive actions: I'm ambivalent on the trade deal renegotiations and pipeline. The big negative is the censorship. what censorship? A former employee at a national park posted things that the national park later removed. I have seen no evidence that the Trump administration was involved. Trump implemented a temporary gag order at the EPA. Like it or not he is now the one who directs the EPA. He is going to make significant changes that as part of the executive branch they are to comply with, assuming the changes are legal. It seems clear to many that the EPA went far beyond their authority. Trump wants to reverse that. Did you complain about "censorship" when Obama said climate change is settled and any skeptics were treated harshly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 "Please notice he cut off the first part of the quote making the comment about Taiwan when it was about what preceded it." Thanks Tim! It is about the Oceans that I was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 "The rest of your post just reveals a deep ignorance on geopolitics." It is actually deep understanding. Just watch and learn as to what will happen. Cardboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 "Please notice he cut off the first part of the quote making the comment about Taiwan when it was about what preceded it." Thanks Tim! It is about the Oceans that I was talking about. I'm no fan of China and I agree with much of what you say, but the US is not much better in a lot of ways. Why do we have ships over there? Does China have carrier groups in the Gulf of Mexico? Would that be OK with us? It is the US that projects power all over the world's oceans like no other country on Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Eriksen Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 "Please notice he cut off the first part of the quote making the comment about Taiwan when it was about what preceded it." Thanks Tim! It is about the Oceans that I was talking about. I'm no fan of China and I agree with much of what you say, but the US is not much better in a lot of ways. Why do we have ships over there? Does China have carrier groups in the Gulf of Mexico? Would that be OK with us? It is the US that projects power all over the world's oceans like no other country on Earth. There is a huge difference between having a presence to keep international waters open and to protect other countries than trying to claim them and control them. If the US did not have a presence, it is almost certain that China would move aggressively toward its neighbors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Right and it is more than just threatening neighbors. By calling this theirs, they are basically taking ownership of mineral rights for that entire area. An enormous area considered into international waters. Cardboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Build the wall! https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/25/executive-order-border-security-and-immigration-enforcement-improvements Apparently, Trump said in a TV interview that Mexico would "absolutely, 100%" reimburse the US for his wall. Suuuure they will. Oh I know, just throw some trade sanctions on Mexican imports and consider that "paying for the wall". Apparently it will be quite expensive. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602494/bad-math-props-up-trumps-border-wall/ And of course, I can't think of a better time to build such a wall, especially when arrests from border crossings has been trending downwards for a decade: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onyx1 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Build the wall! https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/25/executive-order-border-security-and-immigration-enforcement-improvements Wait, what? Build a wall, out of the blue, with no warning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Schwab711 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 He is going to make significant changes that as part of the executive branch they are to comply with, assuming the changes are legal. It seems clear to many that the EPA went far beyond their authority. Trump wants to reverse that. Isn't the judicial system supposed to make those determinations? We got to this point with unilateral choices so we doing the same to reverse them. I think both choices equally dumb. The legislative branch seems less important with each successive 4 years and I think it's a growing risk. I don't necessarily care about this issue or any other, just speaking generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Build the wall! https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/25/executive-order-border-security-and-immigration-enforcement-improvements Wait, what? Build a wall, out of the blue, with no warning? Oh I'm not surprised, simply amused. Do we know if this Great Wall of Mexico will span the entire 2000 mile border, or as the article I posted suggests: After initially proposing to wall off all 2,000 miles, Trump said the wall could run along roughly half of the border, with mountains and other natural barriers blocking immigrants from crossing elsewhere Reminds me of this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 "Reminds me of this." Obviously, your brain doesn't make the difference between offense and defense (wall, shield). May I recommend a few institutes to try to help you? Cardboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccplz Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 "Reminds me of this." Obviously, your brain doesn't make the difference between offense and defense (wall, shield). May I recommend a few institutes to try to help you? Cardboard You completely missed the guy's point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 Parsad Whilst I respect you enormously and have no doubts about your integrity - I'm offended by the statement you made at the bottom. You have no idea what you're talking about. Having grown up on the wrong side of the iron curtain, I can tell you that any such regime is not 'more or less' the same as Western style democracy. In China, I very much doubt you can speak your mind (look at what's going on in HK with people not wishing to come under the party rule thumb) ... at least not if your views or beliefs are contrary to that of the ruling party. In China, if the government wants to take your land - it will. And will give a fig about your rights or compensating you. This does not happen in Italy, Spain, Germany, the UK, France, the US, Canada, etc. Etc. So I seriously think that was an inconsiderate and ill considered remark. C. I think that many of you miss the forest for the trees. I also think that a lot of the leftist money managers on this website should be highly thankful to the American people for electing Trump since otherwise they would have had a lot of explaining to do with their clients for poor returns had it not been for this late stage rally. While Trump is unable to be politically correct and will keep on making inflammatory statements, here is what the tangible actions are since he is in on Friday: 1- Monday: meets with business and union leaders to discuss job creation, producing locally, taxes, regulations. 2- Today: meets with the big 3 auto CEO's again on the same topic. NBC reports that he will push ahead with Keystone XL and Dakota pipeline. 3- .... You get the picture? I find that a whole lot better than the communist well spoken orator that we have had for 8 years. All he could do was to tell bankers that he was the only protection between them and the furious public. Then he regulated and created this no hope, no dream, moribund atmosphere. Well, maybe that I am vastly exagerating but, he certainly did not live up to my expectations of Hope and Change. I will make the two following predictions and you can laugh at me in 4 years or before if I am wrong: 1- In 4 years, the world will do more trade than ever before and by a long shot. When America is at the top of its game, then everyone has to up its game. What people perceive as a trade war will turn into a massive push for every country to be more efficient and innovative which will drive up jobs, growth and innovation. Quite different than this zero sum game being played now. 2- China will no longer be communist. If we can get rid of this regime then the Taiwan, South China Sea, Hong Kong and North Korea issues go away. I do believe that it is the strategy of this administration or to liberate the Chinese people from this evil. If you are looking for a Hitler then look to this leadership instead and these comments are exactly what Hitler used to get to power following The Crash: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/23/china-we-can-lead-world-after-crisis-in-western-democracy-capitalism.html Cardboard Cardboard, have you been to China in the last few years? It's nothing like you are saying or imagining. They've embraced capitalism in such a way, that it would make Adam Smith blush. I saw as many people suffering there, as I do in Canada or the United States...and the prosperity was equal as well. In terms of the deception, control, restriction of freedoms and rights, etc, it's probably no better or worse than any Western democracy. I would say that such behavior will become part of this new U.S. administration rather quickly as well...both driving the capitalist engine and censoring the press, freedoms, rights and deception is already part of their manifesto. Cheers! Sunrider, I did not mean to offend yours or anyone else's sensibilities, especially your experiences. My point was that China today, contrary to Western opinion, isn't the same Communist regime as history, or your past experience, remembers. Any government, when given too much power, can infringe on the people's rights...even one that espouses democracy. India is a democracy...that doesn't mean people have it better than they do in China presently. Doesn't mean corruption isn't as rampant, or property rights aren't trampled. I think we all know that Germany was a republic at one time. But changes in ideology take hold due to economic circumstances...we are witnessing something similar, hopefully to a far lesser degree, globally. The only way to protect a democracy is to never let that type of ideology take hold. Once half the population starts to buy the propaganda, the half truths, alternative facts...well, you have a problem. Again, I am not discounting your experiences or anyone else's under a communist regime. I'm just saying what I witnessed in China, and only as a visiting tourist, was not completely accurate based on everything we read here. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sys Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 i take comfort in the fact that mexicans can now fly to canada and walk across the northern border, should it prove necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 i take comfort in the fact that mexicans can now fly to canada and walk across the northern border, should it prove necessary. Haha! That's hilarious! Don't tell anyone, otherwise Trump's going to build a wall along Canada's border, and make us pay for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardGibbons Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 "Reminds me of this." Obviously, your brain doesn't make the difference between offense and defense (wall, shield). May I recommend a few institutes to try to help you? Cardboard You completely missed the guy's point. Yeah, why on earth would Cardboard think that Trump represented the fascist side? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 i take comfort in the fact that mexicans can now fly to canada and walk across the northern border, should it prove necessary. Haha! That's hilarious! Don't tell anyone, otherwise Trump's going to build a wall along Canada's border, and make us pay for it! Do Mexicans have boats? I think we might have to build a wall along our coastlines too. "Libertarians know that a free country has nothing to fear from anyone coming in or going out. While a welfare state is scared to death of every poor person who wishes to come in and every rich person who wishes to get out." --Harry Browne "The people that want big fences and guns, sure, we could secure the border. A barbed wire fence with machine guns, that would do the trick. I don’t believe that is what America is all about. Every time you think about this toughness on the border and ID cards and REAL IDs, think it’s a penalty against the American people too. I think this fence business is designed and may well be used against us and keep us in. In economic turmoil, the people want to leave with their capital and there’s capital controls and there’s people controls. Every time you think about the fence, think about the fences being used against us, keeping us in." --Ron Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 "The rest of your post just reveals a deep ignorance on geopolitics." It is actually deep understanding. Just watch and learn as to what will happen. Cardboard It's quite easy to proclaim that you have something while having nothing to support it. I don't want to get into a back and forth in a thread with a completely different topic, but I'll just add this: nothing is as black or white, good or evil, right or wrong as it seems. Complexity and nuance exists and we should all strive to seek the other point of view just as vigorously as we sought our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 When people are coming in ILLEGALLY to hurt people, infringing on their rights, sometime killing them, how is that interpreted by Libertarian Greats? By the way, if they want to fly North and walk accross, I wish them luck. People may not know this but, the Northern border is quite secure with patrols, sophisticated detection equipment and both countries are taking this seriously. I don't get what is so hard to understand. We want people to follow the law. It is not like a new is being introduced, it is already a law. "You completely missed the guy's point." Sure I did. I did not see the Maginot Line on my cell screen. So I apologize to LC for my comment. However, I am sick and tired of this description of Trump of being some Hitler or probably explaining why I went straight for the Nazi comparison. Cardboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 " Complexity and nuance exists and we should all strive to seek the other point of view just as vigorously as we sought our own." LOL. Well I don't think that you achieved that by telling me that I was deeply ignorant. Cardboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmori7 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 For those who support Trump, as a scientist, I find that it is what is the most scary thing: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-administration-restricts-news-from-federal-scientists-at-usda-epa/ This is a dangerous path. Of course, a lot of you don't care about the subtle change and the erosion of your democracy, as long it is strengthening the economy in the sort term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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