2016 net worth poll

[tede02]

We need another poll to go side by side with this one, age or age ranges.  Probably a high correlation between more net worth and age. 

[DooDiligence]

I'd like to add that you're also considering retirement in the United States. I'm not sure that $500,000 isn't enough to retire on a beach in Thailand somewhere. Anyhow, just wanted to throw my two cents in and say that embedded assumptions are important.

 

You could live well in Thailand for around $20K a year.

 

I had 2 root canals & crowns done there for less than $500 in a very clean & professional environment (a US dentist quoted me around $700 just for one root canal.)

 

Dental work aside; a more pleasant aspect of living there is that the food & the people are awesome!

[CorpRaider]

For real, or just undertake some medical tourism for non-emergencies to countries with lower costs and better outcomes.  Could also probably slash the normal medical expense projections by heading to Washington State for a dignified exit when you get the point of facing nursing home care for $10K per day for the rest of your miserable life.

[Jurgis]

Also, ultimately this "you can be happy with lower money" concept is Buddhism.  And if you are actually a Buddhist, you can be just as happy working as not working.  Chop wood, carry water and all that.

 

/bow great teacher! 8)

 

I might work at least until there is demand for my skills and I have some fun and sense of contributing to our society's progress. ;)

 

[Jurgis]

For real, or just undertake some medical tourism for non-emergencies to countries with lower costs and better outcomes.  Could also probably slash the normal medical expense projections by heading to Washington State for a dignified exit when you get the point of facing nursing home care for $10K per day for the rest of your miserable life.

 

Not bad suggestion, but there are exceptions. E.g. cancer. You still can find places that may treat you, but you'd have to live there and they may nor may not have as good/latest drugs and proficiency. And if they have latest/greatest, the country may not be cheap. (I have some 3rd hand experience in this through family members.)

[rkbabang]

So the average of the middle?

 

Funny when said like that, but pretty sure the middle class isn't actually the middle when it comes to absolute $ amounts. It's more an arbitrary group than a mathematical thing. Vast quantities of the wealth in this country are controlled by a few % of people, so if you include them in the average amount in retirement, it'll skew things a lot.

 

I think of people in the middle class as people near the median wage.  So a better way to term it is "The average of people around the median".

 

[AzCactus]

I think another important item here is your age.  Someone at 25 years old with a net worth of $250K is likely in better shape than someone who is 65 with a net worth or $1,000,000

[sys]

i'm not sure it makes sense to sell your (generally healthier, my bias is easier to enjoy) younger years on the presumption that you will need, want and be able to buy additional years at the end of your life with the money you made selling your time earlier in your life.

 

at the very least one should do should try to make some realistic assumptions and do the math to see if it seems logical.

 

 

 

 

[Aberhound]

Also, ultimately this "you can be happy with lower money" concept is Buddhism.  And if you are actually a Buddhist, you can be just as happy working as not working.  Chop wood, carry water and all that.

 

/bow great teacher! 8)

 

I might work at least until there is demand for my skills and I have some fun and sense of contributing to our society's progress. ;)

 

I agree. Once you have enough wealth switch your work if you are not doing something you enjoy but keep working and contributing. I have seen too many people retire then lose their health soon afterwards.

[Uccmal]

 

How much are you planning to spend? 10% on $2M is $200k. Compounding will go on at a lower net wealth than that.

 

I do like the $2M figure though to take out all risk. If you stop working and need to restart again because of a large unseen event that will be quite hard emotionally.

 

Well, taking out 10% a year will kill you.  As Jurgis said, something on the order of 3-4%.  Of course, when you are making sure you are fine in the bottom 1-5% of outcomes, that means most of your actual outcomes will go exponential.  That's why I feel like you either barely make it (or not) or you are incredibly wealthy.  And the difference is a pretty thin line, so might as well be on the other side of it.

 

That seems to be the way it works.  People over at ERE (early retirement extreme) use firecalc which basically runs a hundred lines or so each representing a different start year, of real returns from history.  If you stay above the line until your dead you are fine, well, except that your dead, but I digress.  I lurk over there (ERE)  from time to time. 

[rukawa]

+1. Not to restart my soapbox, but I pretty much stay with opinion that in US you need 500K-1M just to be on the safe side of medical/long-term care.

 

Well if you are interested in health in makes sense to start with the activities that generate the biggest bang for the buck. And the first is not healthcare. Its exercise. So unless you are already running 15 minutes a day it probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense to try to save 500k-1m. After healthcare you would probably want to look at what you eat. And then you would probably want to examine your social network.

 

Healthcare spending has little impact on mortality or general health. Its probably not even in the top 10.

[oddballstocks]

I think expectations for people on this forum are way off from what the average person has.

 

Most middle class people will retire with SSN, maybe a few hundred dollar pension per month and less than $100k in retirement savings.

 

Consider a typical family with a paid off modest house and both people receiving SSN.  Maybe they each get $2k per month in SSN income plus $300 from a pension.  That's $4300/mo in income.  It's more or less the median income, and considering they're living a median life not much changes in retirement.  Don't discount the fact that many retirees work part time jobs to either stay busy or supplement their income.  When you make $4k a month from SSN an additional $400/mo from greeting at Wal-Mart 10 hours a week is a 10% income bump, significant for most.  Also consider that for this median family their kids are probably gone.  They raised kids on this income, so without kids they might even feel a bit wealthy.

 

Where people get tripped up with this is when they earn above average and want to retire with an above average income too.  To do this one needs to amass a small fortune in retirement accounts.

 

If one desires to retire early then health care is a concern as well.  For the median person they're retiring after medicare kicks in, health savings is a moot point.

 

Regarding health.  Healthy people always like to say "exercise and eat right" and you'll never have a problem.  Time and chance happen to us all.  I've experienced fluke health events that are both serious and supposedly impossible for a healthy person who runs daily, is thin, and eats right.  My wife claims that if I wasn't so in shape what I'd experienced probably would have killed me, maybe that's true as well.  In life there is no A/B testing.

 

I can't imagine retiring early due to health costs.  With a healthy family they're still high.  I get to deal with things like ER visits for kids jumping off the top of bunk beds.  The random things boys get themselves into is crazy.  This summer my middle son stood on some toy, fell, hit the wall and needed staples in his head.  That's $1500 at a minimum.

 

There is always the path of never getting married, never having kids, living in a tiny apartment or RV and living on a small pile of assets.  This is the most mathematically sound and feasible strategy if that's the life you desire.  It's not what I desire, nor most, but I think that's also why very few quit working early as well.

 

When I had a job I hated I wanted to retire early.  With some soul searching I realized I just wanted out.  I now do something I enjoy in an environment that's flexible and I haven't thought about retirement.  Why would I quit doing this?  What would I do then golf? I can golf anytime I want now as it is, so what would I gain?  I also understand not everyone can find this arrangement either.  For some early retirement is the only way off the hamster wheel.

[oddballstocks]

I think expectations for people on this forum are way off from what the average person has.

 

Most middle class people will retire with SSN, maybe a few hundred dollar pension per month and less than $100k in retirement savings.

 

Consider a typical family with a paid off modest house and both people receiving SSN.  Maybe they each get $2k per month in SSN income plus $300 from a pension.  That's $4300/mo in income.  It's more or less the median income, and considering they're living a median life not much changes in retirement.  Don't discount the fact that many retirees work part time jobs to either stay busy or supplement their income.  When you make $4k a month from SSN an additional $400/mo from greeting at Wal-Mart 10 hours a week is a 10% income bump, significant for most.  Also consider that for this median family their kids are probably gone.  They raised kids on this income, so without kids they might even feel a bit wealthy.

 

Where people get tripped up with this is when they earn above average and want to retire with an above average income too.  To do this one needs to amass a small fortune in retirement accounts.

 

If one desires to retire early then health care is a concern as well.  For the median person they're retiring after medicare kicks in, health savings is a moot point.

 

Regarding health.  Healthy people always like to say "exercise and eat right" and you'll never have a problem.  Time and chance happen to us all.  I've experienced fluke health events that are both serious and supposedly impossible for a healthy person who runs daily, is thin, and eats right.  My wife claims that if I wasn't so in shape what I'd experienced probably would have killed me, maybe that's true as well.  In life there is no A/B testing.

 

I can't imagine retiring early due to health costs.  With a healthy family they're still high.  I get to deal with things like ER visits for kids jumping off the top of bunk beds.  The random things boys get themselves into is crazy.  This summer my middle son stood on some toy, fell, hit the wall and needed staples in his head.  That's $1500 at a minimum.

 

There is always the path of never getting married, never having kids, living in a tiny apartment or RV and living on a small pile of assets.  This is the most mathematically sound and feasible strategy if that's the life you desire.  It's not what I desire, nor most, but I think that's also why very few quit working early as well.

 

When I had a job I hated I wanted to retire early.  With some soul searching I realized I just wanted out.  I now do something I enjoy in an environment that's flexible and I haven't thought about retirement.  Why would I quit doing this?  What would I do then golf? I can golf anytime I want now as it is, so what would I gain?  I also understand not everyone can find this arrangement either.  For some early retirement is the only way off the hamster wheel.

 

You really turned into a good writer... one can see the structures and all. Professional stuff.  Did you take any courses or it came with writing the blog?

 

Thanks, I appreciate the complement.  Any improvement has come from practice.  My only professional training if you can call it that was reading On Writing Well in 2013.

[sys]

I think expectations for people on this forum are way off from what the average person has.

 

my mother-in-law (in mexico) lives on about $200-$300 a month, i think.  probably under $100 typically, but occasional health care and travel costs probably bump the average up to around $300.

[Hielko]

I can't imagine retiring early due to health costs.  With a healthy family they're still high.  I get to deal with things like ER visits for kids jumping off the top of bunk beds.  The random things boys get themselves into is crazy.  This summer my middle son stood on some toy, fell, hit the wall and needed staples in his head.  That's $1500 at a minimum.

Bit off-topic: but lol, healthcare costs in the USA... that's just ridiculous.

[oddballstocks]

I can't imagine retiring early due to health costs.  With a healthy family they're still high.  I get to deal with things like ER visits for kids jumping off the top of bunk beds.  The random things boys get themselves into is crazy.  This summer my middle son stood on some toy, fell, hit the wall and needed staples in his head.  That's $1500 at a minimum.

Bit off-topic: but lol, healthcare costs in the USA... that's just ridiculous.

 

It's highway robbery.  My oldest had a upper endoscopy on his throat two years ago, the doctor charged $14,000 for the 15 minute procedure.  One thousand a minute to put a tube with a camera in a throat.  In the US you're expected to pay a premium of a few hundred to a thousand a month just for the privilege of having insurance then the first $x out of pocket before coverage kicks in.  The $14k hit the deductible and we paid $4k out of pocket for it.

 

We need a sane system here, this is anything but sane.  I like paying out of pocket and knowing prices, but doctors need to know what they're charging as well.  I'm sure there are a number of doctors on the board here.  My guess is 90% have no idea what a patient is paying for a given procedure.

[SharperDingaan]

We've all heard about Canadian 'snowbirds' living in Florida during the winter, for 6 months less 1 day every year - to preserve their health care benefits. But few realize that many are now going to either the southern hemisphere - where its much cheaper and summer, or the Caribbean. There are many ways of doing it, but most would either fly down or travel by cruise ship, and rent an apartment + car - split over a few people. Every winter a different location. 

 

A very modest $C monthly retirement income, permits you to live like a king in either Cape Town or Durban (South Africa) - and perhaps enjoy a safari while you're there too. The number of retirement $ does not equal quality of life.

 

SD

 

 

 

 

[TwoCitiesCapital]

I can't imagine retiring early due to health costs.  With a healthy family they're still high.  I get to deal with things like ER visits for kids jumping off the top of bunk beds.  The random things boys get themselves into is crazy.  This summer my middle son stood on some toy, fell, hit the wall and needed staples in his head.  That's $1500 at a minimum.

Bit off-topic: but lol, healthcare costs in the USA... that's just ridiculous.

 

It's highway robbery.  My oldest had a upper endoscopy on his throat two years ago, the doctor charged $14,000 for the 15 minute procedure.  One thousand a minute to put a tube with a camera in a throat.  In the US you're expected to pay a premium of a few hundred to a thousand a month just for the privilege of having insurance then the first $x out of pocket before coverage kicks in.  The $14k hit the deductible and we paid $4k out of pocket for it.

 

We need a sane system here, this is anything but sane.  I like paying out of pocket and knowing prices, but doctors need to know what they're charging as well.  I'm sure there are a number of doctors on the board here.  My guess is 90% have no idea what a patient is paying for a given procedure.

 

You can negotiate those prices down just like the insurance companies do. You won't get AS good of a deal, but with a little pressure, many offices will concede. I only know because my mom didn't have health insurance when she had my older brother. I think she ended up paying about 30% of what the hospital billed her and the hospital was just like "that's cool."

 

But yea - healthcosts in the U.S. are insane. Too much bloat and inefficiency, a focus on specialization and a lack of generalists, paranoia on being sued over malpractice leading to unnecessary procedures/tests, an inability to deny service to those who don't pay meaning those who do subsidize the cost, limits on re-importing prescription drugs and a push for name brands over generics, and consumers not really knowing the true cost b/c it's paid by insurance which is paid for by their employers. All contribute to insanely high costs and I'm sure there are several others I'm missing.

 

All in all, health care is a disaster of an industry from an economic point of view. 

 

My preference would be for everyone to have high deductible, catastrophic insurance coverage that is accepted everywhere with an HSA so we could get some consumer-led cost discipline instituted, but I'd be ok with a single payer system too as long as there was transparency into how much it was costing tax payers. Either would be better than this hybrid system we now have where it's just layers and layers of fat in the middle and a massive separation of the consumer from the cost of the service.

 

 

[BargainValueHunter]

The first question is:

 

Do you want to retire in Manhattan or Mississippi?

 

The answer to that will dictate your necessary income.

[LC]

in my 20s with <250K. So, young and poor!

[Parsad]

I expected this forum to be way poorer. Maybe the poll is biased but looks like people here are doing well for themselves. Nice.

 

This forum is one of the few that can actually back up the financial numbers.  Those numbers actually are from a very limited subset...if you saw the actual spread across the members, I think it would be quite impressive.  Cheers!

[Parsad]

We need another poll to go side by side with this one, age or age ranges.  Probably a high correlation between more net worth and age.

 

Yes, that would probably be more representative of how the wealth is distributed.  For the most part, I would say that the older you are, the larger your nestegg...even on this board.  At the same time, there are a number of fairly youthful members on here who are quite wealthy at a relatively young age via investments, entrepreneurship, professional occupation or just damn luck!  Cheers!

[Parsad]

in my 20s with <250K. So, young and poor!

 

That's ok.  Alot of the people who are now financially independent on here (or the predecessor message board) were in their 20's or early 30's 10-15 years ago.  This is the right forum. 

 

When I started Corner Market Capital 11 years ago, I was 35 years old, after raising my brother and getting him through university.  I was living off my limited investments and working on the side while building the business.  Today I am financially independent!

 

I am very fortunate...I get to do what I love every day and work only with people I like to work with.  The funny thing now is that I have no plans on ever retiring unless forced to do so due to circumstance or poor health.

 

Young and poor is a good thing, as long as you never forget how hungry you were going forward.  It will help you to succeed and get to where you want to be!  Cheers!

[abyli]

in my 20s with <250K. So, young and poor!

 

That's ok.  Alot of the people who are now financially independent on here (or the predecessor message board) were in their 20's or early 30's 10-15 years ago.  This is the right forum. 

 

When I started Corner Market Capital 11 years ago, I was 35 years old, after raising my brother and getting him through university.  I was living off my limited investments and working on the side while building the business.  Today I am financially independent!

 

I am very fortunate...I get to do what I love every day and work only with people I like to work with.  The funny thing now is that I have no plans on ever retiring unless forced to do so due to circumstance or poor health.

 

Young and poor is a good thing, as long as you never forget how hungry you were going forward.  It will help you to succeed and get to where you want to be!  Cheers!

 

Congratulations! Sanj! Well done!

 

Bing

[TwoCitiesCapital]

The first question is:

 

Do you want to retire in Manhattan or Mississippi?

 

The answer to that will dictate your necessary income.

 

Retire in Mississippi and, with the money you save on rent, you can travel to Manhattan once a month for an extended weekend and still save on your taxes!

 

Disclosure: I've lived in both.