missing plane

[rkbabang]

There are only two obvious scenarios that make any sense.  One is that a well funded terrorist group built a large submersible aircraft carrier large enough to land a jumbo jet. The pilot, who is a member of this group, landed on the carrier, the plane was brought below deck, then they submerged and carried it off to their secret lair. 

 

The other plausible scenario is, of course, aliens.

 

 

[randomep]

There are only two obvious scenarios that make any sense.  One is that a well funded terrorist group built a large submersible aircraft carrier large enough to land a jumbo jet. The pilot, who is a member of this group, landed on the carrier, the plane was brought below deck, then they submerged and carried it off to their secret lair. 

 

 

And as we speak, 007 has infiltrated the lair with Kate Beckinsale at his side, he'll soon rescue all passengers seconds before the evil underworld is blown to bits......

[rkbabang]

There are only two obvious scenarios that make any sense.  One is that a well funded terrorist group built a large submersible aircraft carrier large enough to land a jumbo jet. The pilot, who is a member of this group, landed on the carrier, the plane was brought below deck, then they submerged and carried it off to their secret lair. 

 

 

And as we speak, 007 has infiltrated the lair with Kate Beckinsale at his side, he'll soon rescue all passengers seconds before the evil underworld is blown to bits......

 

Shhh!  Don't spoil the ending.

[rogermunibond]

Sighting in the Maldives would put it way off the Inmarsat ping location along the outer arc.

 

But since we don't know if the pilot had made some special fueling request, does anyone know for sure if the plane could not have reached Somalia.  Route over Maldives would but it toward trying to reach the Horn.

[gary17]

I have a insensitive, but practical question: who's gonna be paying for all this searching? How much would it cost? 

[tengen]

There are only two obvious scenarios that make any sense.  One is that a well funded terrorist group built a large submersible aircraft carrier large enough to land a jumbo jet. The pilot, who is a member of this group, landed on the carrier, the plane was brought below deck, then they submerged and carried it off to their secret lair. 

 

The other plausible scenario is, of course, aliens.

 

Perhaps it went through a fissure in the time/space continuum and crashed on a mysterious island populated with strange people (and a polar bear).

[ERICOPOLY]

No country is going to openly admit to having a hole in their military radar where a large passenger plane can pass through.  Saddam for example never wanted the Iranians to believe that they didn't have a chemical weapons stockpile.

 

So they're all going to tell you that their military radars didn't detect anything and that it would be impossible for a plane to fly over their territory undetected.  Duh.  :P

[CorpRaider]

Probably stopped off in Pakistan for refueling and nukes...

[sethatk]

Ever seen the tv show lost? Definitely a possible scenario.

[Orange]

Ever seen the tv show lost? Definitely a possible scenario.

 

Honestly I'm surprised I haven't heard more Lost references by people talking about this. This situation is literally the beginning of the storyline- to a tee, just with less white people.

[ERICOPOLY]

I think you could make a < $1000 tracking device using a GPS receiver, a satellite phone and a roll of ducktape. But apparently that is not as important as banning everybody from bringing a bottle of water in their hand luggage.

 

 

It appears a company has been trying to sell a real-time streaming flight data recorder to the airlines for $100,000 per plane:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/21/technology/flyht-flight-data-streaming-black-box/index.html?iid=HP_Highlight

 

Of course, the airlines won't go for that because they aren't responsible for paying for the massive search for this missing plane.  Isn't this a multinational government bailout of Malaysian Airlines?  Could the airline be asked to reimburse all of the nations involved for the hunt for it's own damn company's plane, especially since they could have prevented the cost for $100,000?

 

[gary17]

 

That's the question I asked - who's paying for all this. Although all the military stuff is really all paid for as they are on salary. It's not a bad exercise for training... better than sitting at the base. and meanwhile the US sits back, get to analyze what kind of radar and military capabilities everybody in Southeast Asia have

 

 

I think you could make a < $1000 tracking device using a GPS receiver, a satellite phone and a roll of ducktape. But apparently that is not as important as banning everybody from bringing a bottle of water in their hand luggage.

 

 

It appears a company has been trying to sell a real-time streaming flight data recorder to the airlines for $100,000 per plane:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/21/technology/flyht-flight-data-streaming-black-box/index.html?iid=HP_Highlight

 

Of course, the airlines won't go for that because they aren't responsible for paying for the massive search for this missing plane.  Isn't this a multinational government bailout of Malaysian Airlines?  Could the airline be asked to reimburse all of the nations involved for the hunt for it's own damn company's plane, especially since they could have prevented the cost for $100,000?

[tyska]

I think you could make a < $1000 tracking device using a GPS receiver, a satellite phone and a roll of ducktape. But apparently that is not as important as banning everybody from bringing a bottle of water in their hand luggage.

 

 

It appears a company has been trying to sell a real-time streaming flight data recorder to the airlines for $100,000 per plane:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/21/technology/flyht-flight-data-streaming-black-box/index.html?iid=HP_Highlight

 

Of course, the airlines won't go for that because they aren't responsible for paying for the massive search for this missing plane.  Isn't this a multinational government bailout of Malaysian Airlines?  Could the airline be asked to reimburse all of the nations involved for the hunt for it's own damn company's plane, especially since they could have prevented the cost for $100,000?

 

Seeing it seems some evidence is pointing to multiple tracking devices being shutoff/disabled. How would have an $100,000 dollar device have worked any better if shutoff or disabled.

[ERICOPOLY]

I think you could make a < $1000 tracking device using a GPS receiver, a satellite phone and a roll of ducktape. But apparently that is not as important as banning everybody from bringing a bottle of water in their hand luggage.

 

 

It appears a company has been trying to sell a real-time streaming flight data recorder to the airlines for $100,000 per plane:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/21/technology/flyht-flight-data-streaming-black-box/index.html?iid=HP_Highlight

 

Of course, the airlines won't go for that because they aren't responsible for paying for the massive search for this missing plane.  Isn't this a multinational government bailout of Malaysian Airlines?  Could the airline be asked to reimburse all of the nations involved for the hunt for it's own damn company's plane, especially since they could have prevented the cost for $100,000?

 

Seeing it seems some evidence is pointing to multiple tracking devices being shutoff/disabled. How would have an $100,000 dollar device have worked any better if shutoff or disabled.

 

I think that's obvious.  You put the shutoff/disable switch in an area of the aircraft so that only a ground-crew can access it.  Perhaps it is behind a panel that can only be accessed from the external belly of the aircraft.

 

Let me ask you a question?  Can the pilot shutoff the existing flight data recorder?  This is no different -- it's just streaming it live to a database.

[tyska]

I think you could make a < $1000 tracking device using a GPS receiver, a satellite phone and a roll of ducktape. But apparently that is not as important as banning everybody from bringing a bottle of water in their hand luggage.

 

 

It appears a company has been trying to sell a real-time streaming flight data recorder to the airlines for $100,000 per plane:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/21/technology/flyht-flight-data-streaming-black-box/index.html?iid=HP_Highlight

 

Of course, the airlines won't go for that because they aren't responsible for paying for the massive search for this missing plane.  Isn't this a multinational government bailout of Malaysian Airlines?  Could the airline be asked to reimburse all of the nations involved for the hunt for it's own damn company's plane, especially since they could have prevented the cost for $100,000?

 

Seeing it seems some evidence is pointing to multiple tracking devices being shutoff/disabled. How would have an $100,000 dollar device have worked any better if shutoff or disabled.

 

I think that's obvious.  You put the shutoff/disable switch in an area of the aircraft so that only a ground-crew can access it.  Perhaps it is behind a panel that can only be accessed from the external belly of the aircraft.

 

Let me ask you a question?  Can the pilot shutoff the existing flight data recorder?  This is no different -- it's just streaming it live to a database.

 

I don't know if they can shutoff the existing flight data recorder, my guess would be no, but then that goes against a few things I've read that the flight crew has to be able to isolate all electrical systems in case of a short. Not sure how the flight data recorder is wired to make it special, but it must be.

But I did a poor job of wording what my initial thought was. The problem isn't really the flight data recorder, as I think they have all been able to be retrieved, when they know were the plane is. So I would think that for a whole lot less than $100,000 dollars some sort of tracker could be attached to the plane. They may want to look at a cockpit voice recorder that doesn't overwrite itself after two hours though, if this plane actually flew for the length of time after, that they suspect.

[Gamecock-YT]

it's possible to shut off the CVR (not sure about FDR), but the circuit breaker is in a different bay than where the ACARS is at.

[ERICOPOLY]

Circuit breaker?

 

Why bother?

 

Just put a satellite phone transmitter with battery backup with gps receiver.  Have that in the tail of the plane or somewhere that pilot and crew can't access.

 

That way, when the power goes out it still runs off of the backup battery.

 

This is obviously all easy stuff that can be implemented in a way that can't be shutoff mid-flight by anyone.

 

[JBird]

Circuit breaker?

 

Why bother?

 

Just put a satellite phone transmitter with battery backup with gps receiver.  Have that in the tail of the plane or somewhere that pilot and crew can't access.

 

That way, when the power goes out it still runs off of the backup battery.

 

This is obviously all easy stuff that can be implemented in a way that can't be shutoff mid-flight by anyone.

 

That makes far too much sense.

[Gamecock-YT]

The big thing is all safety measure improvements in aviation are only enacted once blood is spilled. Don't know if there is enough cost incentive to do this from just the Malaysia disappearance. The best thing that could happen is that it turns out that's the case, so the FAA/DOT/NTSB would be forced to act.

[tyska]

 

 

Just put a satellite phone transmitter with battery backup with gps receiver.  Have that in the tail of the plane or somewhere that pilot and crew can't access.

 

That way, when the power goes out it still runs off of the backup battery.

 

This is obviously all easy stuff that can be implemented in a way that can't be shutoff mid-flight by anyone.

 

Probably a lot cheaper than 100 grand a plane to stream flight data. Unless you get a military contractor to do it. ;)

[fareastwarriors]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101838653

 

 

A passenger plane carrying 295 people had been shot down in Ukraine on Thursday, said the Ukrainian interior minister.

 

 

Separately, Malaysia Airlines confirmed it lost contact with flight MH17 from Amsterdam about 30 miles from the Russia-Ukraine border on Thursday. The last known position was over Ukraine's airspace.

 

Reuters reported that Ukraine's prime minister has identified the shot-down plane as missing Malaysian Airlines flight and has ordered an investigation. A YouTube video purported to show footage from moments after the plane went down.

 

 

 

[VersaillesinNY]

The world is changing and commercial airliners too:

 

Opinion: Commercial Airliners Need Antimissile Protection

 

Speaking at the Institute for National Security Studies at Tel Aviv University, former CIA director and Gen. (ret.) David Petraeus issued a serious warning about the international threats posed by shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles (SAM), also known as man-portable air-defense systems (Manpads), in the hands of Al Qaeda and other terrorists.

 

Petraeus referred to the Jan. 27 downing of an Egyptian military helicopter by a Russian Strela-2 missile (a.k.a. SA-7) by Al Qaeda-affiliated Ansar Beit al-Maqdis in the Sinai Peninsula. “Shooting down a helicopter with an apparent shoulder-fired missile is a big deal. . . . Our worst nightmare [was] that a civilian airliner would be shot down by one,” he said. “ . . . The concern over an attack on civilian aviation flows not only from the loss of passengers' lives but also from the likely economic consequence that would follow: a worldwide grounding of air traffic that might bring the global economy to a screeching halt.”

 

http://aviationweek.com/awin/opinion-commercial-airliners-need-antimissile-protection

 

The 7th Annual INSS International Conference - 2014

Conference held at Museum of Tel Aviv - Date: 27th Jan 2014

Participants:

Maj. Gen. (ret.) Amos Yadlin, Director, INSS

Gen. (ret.) David Petraeus, former Director of the CIA

 

 

Harvard University - Israel, Iran and the Arab Revolution | Institute of Politics

Published on Apr 10, 2014

Former Director of the Mossad, Meir Dagan, Former Director of the CIA David Petraeus, and current Belfer Center Director Graham Allison discussed the possibility of peace in the Middle East with regard to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Iran's nuclear program, and the changing nature of national security organizations.

 

 

Israel retrofits passenger planes with anti-missile defense lasers

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/27/israel-to-outfit-passenger-planes-with-laser-anti-missile-defense-system/

[Guest hellsten]

Plane was likely shot down by a separatist Buk, Separatists released a statement earlier claiming they shot down a Ukranian AN-26 in a nearby area. Perhaps they mistook the 777 for an AN-26? Either way this is rather tragic. Makes me wonder why they even have flights over Donetsk/Luhansk knowing that there is active anti-air defense in the Separatist, Russian and Ukrainian controlled areas.

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=yie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20140717152222%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fvk.com%2Fstrelkov_info

 

"Do not fly in our sky".  :'(

 

"Donetsk defence forces take control of army unit equipped with missile defence systems":

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262

 

Compare this to what Pravda.ru said here:

http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspots/17-07-2014/128074-boeing_shot_down_ukraine-0/

 

On July 15, a division of Buk missile systems of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was deployed in the area of Donetsk. The firing range of the Buk missile system reaches 43 kilometers. The Boeing 777 of Malaysia Airlines was flying at the height of 10,600 kilometers. Representatives of the breakaway republics of Ukraine said that the militias had neither such weapons, nor skills for such an attack.

 

An aircraft flying at an altitude of 10,000 meters can be destroyed only with S-300 or Buk type of weapon. Militias do not can and can not have such systems at their disposal.

[augustabound]

I heard this afternoon the black boxes were recovered by Ukrainian soldiers and they were turning them over to Russia.

 

At this point I'm not sure they would give any new information anyway.  And with all the satellites pointed at the region, I'm sure any blanks will be filled in that way.

 

The same reporter said the FAA sent out a warning and some European carriers were avoiding the area the last few months.

[fareastwarriors]

I heard this afternoon the black boxes were recovered by Ukrainian soldiers and they were turning them over to Russia.

 

At this point I'm not sure they would give any new information anyway.  And with all the satellites pointed at the region, I'm sure any blanks will be filled in that way.

 

The same reporter said the FAA sent out a warning and some European carriers were avoiding the area the last few months.

 

It had to be Malaysian Air...Come on.