25% tariffs on Canadian and Mexican imports.

[dwy000]

3 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

It's understandable that you don't think your security concerns are important.

 

They won't be, until something happens. In the meantime - stay in la-la land.

So if Greg (and i) are right that this likely a short lived drama that gets solved with a meaningless promise to let Trump act like he got something, are you saying this is the best outcome for America?  The chaos and disruption and meaningful harm to global relationships was worth it for that?

 

And I know you're reluctant to take a stance on that without knowing where Hannity comes out on it. 

Edited 2 hours ago by dwy000

[cubsfan]

1 minute ago, dwy000 said:

So if Greg (and i) are right that this likely a short lived drama that gets solved with a meaningless promise to let Trump act like he got something, are you saying this is the best outcome for America?  The chaos and disruption and meaningful harm to global relationships was worth it for that?

 

Getting your attention is the first step. Keeping your cool is the second step. Something your not capable of.

[dwy000]

Just now, cubsfan said:

 

Getting your attention is the first step. Keeping your cool is the second step. Something your not capable of.

So you don't have an opinion on it until Fox gives it to you?

[cubsfan]

Just now, dwy000 said:

So you don't have an opinion on it until Fox gives it to you?

 

I defer to know-it-alls like you

[cwericb]

35 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Why tell lies about this??

 

Mulino told reporters after the meeting that Rubio made “no real threat of retaking the canal or the use of force.”

 

Mulino, meanwhile, called his talks with Rubio “respectful” and “positive” and said he did not “feel like there’s a real threat against the treaty and its validity.”

 

No lies, Trump pre-staged the meeting with the threat. Short memory?

[Spooky]

28 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

It's understandable that you don't think your security concerns are important.

 

They won't be, until something happens. In the meantime - stay in la-la land.

 

I have some rich friends that refuse to invest in catastrophe insurance too.

I think it's a big mistake.

 

Why don't you look into a mirror and your own citizens? All the mass shootings going on are your own people. The shootings at the new year were a former army veteran. You are the one in la-la land. There is a disturbing rise in home grown right wing violence and extremism. Hell the people who stormed your capital and were charged with violent sedition were just pardoned. I guess they are the good terrorists.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Spooky

[cubsfan]

18 minutes ago, cwericb said:

 

No lies, Trump pre-staged the meeting with the threat. Short memory?

 

Not at all... What an amazing, cool headed and professional response from Mulino... perhaps that is the end of it. Now that wasn't hard was it???   

 

And just think - no temper tantrum.

 

Mulino did say Panama would not be renewing its agreement with China’s Belt and Road Initiative when it expires.

 

 

[Parsad]

For board members...the tariffs kick in Tuesday.  I'll give you till midnight tonight PST to vent all you want and then this thread is locked.

 

Food for thought...if a bully pushes far enough, unintended consequences may erupt.  What if Canada, Denmark and the South American countries pulled out from any nuclear non-proliferation agreements.  Remote, antagonistic and extremely improbable, but we've seen unlikely things happen many times.  When you are dealing with a bully that initiates economic warfare, how far behind is military warfare if they don't get their way?

 

Canada is one of the few countries in the world that has the capacity to have nuclear weapons but chose not to.  Canada has all of the components except refining plutonium to build nuclear weapons.  Think about all of the pushing from India that forced Pakistan to arm itself.  Canada could have nuclear weapons within 2-4 years.  

 

Now that is the most militant extreme reaction over time...but there is an outlier chance it could happen and plunge the United States into action to prevent that from happening.  Is that really the long-term outcome we want to see?    

 

Less than 10 years ago, it was unlikely we could imagine things getting this heated in the U.S./Canada relationship.  I was wary of a Trump victory then, while most people didn't expect it.  This time, I was even more fearful of a 2nd term.  Now we're firing tariffs back at each other and one party is threatening to annex another sovereign nation.  While I never expected a civil war, I certainly expected the possibility of domestic terrorism in the United States rising in the last decade.  I still believe that political rhetoric is so extreme that nutjobs will do more stupid things going forward.  Which is a very sad state of affairs!

 

In almost all circumstances, I've found that negotiation and compromise usually leads to better outcomes then trying to obliterate one party which leads to continued retaliation between both.  It is easy to let things escalate because emotions and fear run high.  Hopefully cooler heads prevail and both parties return to the table!

 

Anyway, you have till midnight and then I lock this garbage up.

 

Cheers!  

[cubsfan]

11 minutes ago, Spooky said:

 

Why don't you look into a mirror and your own citizens? All the mass shootings going on are your own people. The shootings at the new year were a former army veteran. You are the one in la-la land. There is a disturbing rise in home grown right wing violence and extremism. Hell the people who stormed your capital and were charged with violent sedition were just pardoned.

 

Oh we are in agreement on most of that. This is a deeply divided nation.

 

The USA had a choice - go hard left with the globalists that could give a fuck about the American middle class - or return to center right and focus on the country and those left behind.

 

Fortunately - the citizens have choosen their leader and away from socialism.

[cubsfan]

You are indeed a good and fair man @Parsad Thank you.

[Maverick47]

9 minutes ago, Spooky said:

Why don't you look into a mirror and your own citizens? All the mass shootings going on are your own people. The shootings at the new year were a former army veteran. You are the one in la-la land. There is a disturbing rise in home grown right wing violence and extremism. Hell the people who stormed your capital and were charged with violent sedition were just pardoned.

+1

 

Pretty sad state of affairs here in the US.  The party holding the slimmest margin in the House of Representatives in decades acting as if there is a massive mandate for change and disruption both at home and abroad, while burying their heads in the sand about the importance of character in leadership, value of long term alliances, etc, all for the pursuit of meaningless tactical (not strategic) transactional economic “victories”.  Here’s hoping the damage done won’t be irreparable.
 

 

[Spooky]

6 minutes ago, Parsad said:

Canada is one of the few countries in the world that has the capacity to have nuclear weapons but chose not to.  Canada has all of the components except refining plutonium to build nuclear weapons.  Think about all of the pushing from India that forced Pakistan to arm itself.  Canada could have nuclear weapons within 2-4 years.  

 

We did have nukes in the past and gave them up.

[SharperDingaan]

Trump has burnt a lot of political capital to do this, and cannot afford an extended period of counter tariffs. 300,000 Michigan auto workers will be laid-off within 2 weeks. More recent numbers put the total number of US autoworkers at 990,000; then add the job losses in the myriad other industries that are also being affected. Dec 2024, there were 6.9 M people unemployed in the US ... by the end of March it could well be 8.5 M+ (up 20%+, in two months).  

https://www.bridgemi.com/business-watch/numbers-how-many-uaw-members-michigan-how-much-would-strike-cost

https://www.statista.com/statistics/574197/leading-us-states-in-terms-of-automotive-industry-employement/

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNEMPLOY/

 

The USCMA became effective July 2020, and runs through July 2036. Try as he might; Trump can't force either Canada or Mexico to re-negotiate early, and Trump will be gone by 2029. Lot of strutting, but a melting ice cube.

 

Canada leads, everyone else follows, and very shortly thereafter almost everything the US makes is under some kind of tariff. The US ain't selling squat abroad, and everyone else is selling between themselves at no tariff. Deporting illegals doesn't reduce the unemployment rate either, as they aren't registered, it just makes it harder to find labour willing to accept the poor pay. Orange crush.

 

It is a simple matter to load WCS at market price onto tankers, then resell the cargo to west coast refiners via flags that are tariff free. The only limitation is the capacity of the pipe, and the ability of oil-trains to supplement the tide-water egress. Cushing inventory is nominal, Alberta gets world price on the same volume, the refiner pays world price on the same volume, and the tax man gets ... nothing. Complements to Ari Onassis  

 

As in hockey; punch back hard, keep punching, and pretty soon there's a pile on, and penalties. Keep raising the heat ...  and ice cubes quickly turn into puddles 

 

SD

 

  

Edited 1 hour ago by SharperDingaan

[Ulti]

https://www.eia.gov/uranium/marketing/
 

we import 27% of our uranium from Canada… I wonder how tariffs will affect the us effort to upgrade our weapons and build our nuclear plants for data centers 

[wisdom]

A lot of the rhetoric reminds me of WMD and Iraq war where the naive believed the false evidence and believed the government line that the troops would be welcomed as saviours and everything will be changed forever in the Middle East. 
 

I hope for everyone’s sake things turn out as per the President’s claims though history is against it.

 

Life is not as simple and the answers are even more complicated than those who are so sure can imagine.

 

I especially worry when you have a leader who is narcissistic and so sure of what he knows.

Edited 1 hour ago by wisdom

[Peregrine]

How are these tariffs even going to be implemented? With products that criss-cross the border multiple times? I doubt that the Trump admin has thought through this with any level of detail. More likely that it's yet more brinksmanship tactics from the guy who made a career out of brinksmanship. Let Canada and Mexico make some announcements about fentanyl control and give him the off-ramp that he's seeking.

[Castanza]

Lots of finger pointing. 
 

The fact is Western Nations (plural) have been failed by poor leadership the last three decades. Trump and his irrationality is the result of decades of poor leadership by all Western  Nations. US citizens were tired of being last so they got a “King” who said he would put them first. Time will tell if that works out, but the rest of the Western Nations sure like to sling mud and provide their citizens very cushy lives (likely at the cost of future generations) all while being supported and protected by the US. How about some self examination of your own countries? 
 

How about Western Countries start electing actual fucking leaders who take a stake in the future of Western Global Leadership instead of kissing the ass of anyone or any group that will keep them in office. I can’t name a single Western Leader in any country that I would want in as President of the US currently. 
 

 

[SharperDingaan]

1 minute ago, Peregrine said:

How are these tariffs even going to be implemented? With products that criss-cross the border multiple times? I doubt that the Trump admin has thought through this with any level of detail. More likely that it's yet more brinksmanship tactics from the guy who made a career out of brinksmanship. Let Canada and Mexico make some announcements about fentanyl control and give him the off-ramp that he's seeking.

 

Better to call the bluff and keep the balls on the flame, as prairie oysters taste a lot better roasted.

Fuck with us, and you ain't ever going to try it again  

 

SD

[dealraker]

I'll just flame in (LOL!) with saying I think my buds Greg and Cubs VASTLY over-rate Donald John Trump's ability to uplift anything except his own survival finances.  I think Trump, n-o-t the Republican party nor so-called conservatives, will at some point send business and the markets through the floor.  Elon?  He'll simply find it all amusing as he's always able to survive and thrive given his extremely intuitive economic nature.  Nothing economic in any way ever will bother Elon, he's just too good at positioning to worry about anything ever.  The man is BRIGHT in worldly ways that's so far above the rest of us, and he has little if any concern about us.

 

I'm reasonably good at these right-brained generalized predictions by the way.  My last one, in 2018 was an unwavering rant that Trump would not accept the 2024 election results.  My friends tried to have me committed for a while, but one-by-one they fell in line with me on that one.

 

Don't take me too seriously, but there again I'm decent at this type thing.  We have years and years of it coming so get used to it people.  If this setting settles?  There will be 50 more in the next few years and they'll likely escalate.  

 

My biggest thought actually is that now Trump has guaranteed finances too.  What does that mean for the rest of us?  Not good is what that means.  

 

Lastly, Trump has a long history of what it is like to invest with him.   His first presidency isn't in this history simply because he didn't have the power he has today.  He is totally in charge now.  Most of you, I'm quite sure, voted for it and love the current happenings.

 

Also, I think what some may think as planned or natural instinct is simply Trump's panic and/or anxiety attacks.  I think until recently Trump's anxieties were 50% financial related, now though I think it will go towards 100% fears of loss of control.  This means everything will be incredibly intermittent, you'll not ever be able to predict where this is going.

 

Life is great...if you can stand it.

Edited 1 hour ago by dealraker

[wisdom]

5 minutes ago, Castanza said:

Lots of finger pointing. 
 

The fact is Western Nations (plural) have been failed by poor leadership the last three decades. Trump and his irrationality is the result of decades of poor leadership by all Western  Nations. US citizens were tired of being last so they got a “King” who said he would put them first. Time will tell if that works out, but the rest of the Western Nations sure like to sling mud and provide their citizens very cushy lives (likely at the cost of future generations) all while being supported and protected by the US. How about some self examination of your own countries? 
 

How about Western Countries start electing actual fucking leaders who take a stake in the future of Western Global Leadership instead of kissing the ass of anyone or any group that will keep them in office. I can’t name a single Western Leader in any country that I would want in as President of the US currently. 
 

 

Agreed - unfortunately you need a crisis to force change and doing the right thing. So in some ways Trump may be our saviour by making a mess first.

 

He could be so successful that China could look good.

[cubsfan]

10 minutes ago, Castanza said:

Lots of finger pointing. 
 

The fact is Western Nations (plural) have been failed by poor leadership the last three decades. Trump and his irrationality is the result of decades of poor leadership by all Western  Nations. US citizens were tired of being last so they got a “King” who said he would put them first. Time will tell if that works out, but the rest of the Western Nations sure like to sling mud and provide their citizens very cushy lives (likely at the cost of future generations) all while being supported and protected by the US. How about some self examination of your own countries? 
 

How about Western Countries start electing actual fucking leaders who take a stake in the future of Western Global Leadership instead of kissing the ass of anyone or any group that will keep them in office. I can’t name a single Western Leader in any country that I would want in as President of the US currently. 
 

 

 

100% - you may not like him. Some in the USA hate him. He won by a landslide on the issues.

I have little doubt he'll keep his promises to rebuild the middle class.

 

[Gregmal]

How about some Molson Coors lol 

[Parsad]

7 minutes ago, wisdom said:

Agreed - unfortunately you need a crisis to force change and doing the right thing. So in some ways Trump may be our saviour by making a mess first.

 

He could be so successful that China could look good.

 

Hockey analogy...so for our friends south of the border, please don't get bored.

 

But about 10 years ago, the Vancouver Canucks were stinking it up after making a run at the Stanley Cup a few years earlier.  The team was in upheaval and out of the playoffs for a couple of years. 

 

Unfortunately, the owners weren't very patient and brought in John Tortorella to change things.  Instead, the door fell completely off the hinges and total chaos ensued for the club.  It took years...pretty much until last season...to right the ship.

 

The lesson...owners brought in a coach to create accountability.  Unfortunately it was the wrong coach and instead he created utter chaos and put the club back over 5 years from where it would have been.

 

In other words...be careful what you wish for...accountability would be great, but chaos would be the last thing you want!  Cheers!

[Castanza]

18 minutes ago, wisdom said:

Agreed - unfortunately you need a crisis to force change and doing the right thing. So in some ways Trump may be our saviour by making a mess first.

 

He could be so successful that China could look good.

Crisis lights fires under peoples asses. For better or worse that’s what Trump does. How it shakes out….no clue. But instead of bitching incessantly the rest of the Western nations should focus on on innovation, defense etc. Longterm I think that’s good for “The West”. Stronger independent nations makes for stronger alliances. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Castanza

[Buckeye]

21 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

100% - you may not like him. Some in the USA hate him. He won by a landslide on the issues.

I have little doubt he'll keep his promises to rebuild the middle class.

 

Except for he didn’t win by a landslide Sean. 
 

Donald Trump won the 2024 election with one of the smallest popular-vote margins in U.S. history, but in news deserts – counties lacking a professional source of local news – it was an avalanche.

Edited 1 hour ago by Buckeye