dwy000 Posted February 2 Posted February 2 (edited) 3 minutes ago, cubsfan said: It's understandable that you don't think your security concerns are important. They won't be, until something happens. In the meantime - stay in la-la land. So if Greg (and i) are right that this likely a short lived drama that gets solved with a meaningless promise to let Trump act like he got something, are you saying this is the best outcome for America? The chaos and disruption and meaningful harm to global relationships was worth it for that? And I know you're reluctant to take a stance on that without knowing where Hannity comes out on it. Edited February 2 by dwy000
cubsfan Posted February 2 Posted February 2 1 minute ago, dwy000 said: So if Greg (and i) are right that this likely a short lived drama that gets solved with a meaningless promise to let Trump act like he got something, are you saying this is the best outcome for America? The chaos and disruption and meaningful harm to global relationships was worth it for that? Getting your attention is the first step. Keeping your cool is the second step. Something your not capable of.
dwy000 Posted February 2 Posted February 2 Just now, cubsfan said: Getting your attention is the first step. Keeping your cool is the second step. Something your not capable of. So you don't have an opinion on it until Fox gives it to you?
cubsfan Posted February 2 Posted February 2 Just now, dwy000 said: So you don't have an opinion on it until Fox gives it to you? I defer to know-it-alls like you
cwericb Posted February 2 Posted February 2 35 minutes ago, cubsfan said: Why tell lies about this?? Mulino told reporters after the meeting that Rubio made “no real threat of retaking the canal or the use of force.” Mulino, meanwhile, called his talks with Rubio “respectful” and “positive” and said he did not “feel like there’s a real threat against the treaty and its validity.” No lies, Trump pre-staged the meeting with the threat. Short memory?
Spooky Posted February 2 Posted February 2 (edited) 28 minutes ago, cubsfan said: It's understandable that you don't think your security concerns are important. They won't be, until something happens. In the meantime - stay in la-la land. I have some rich friends that refuse to invest in catastrophe insurance too. I think it's a big mistake. Why don't you look into a mirror and your own citizens? All the mass shootings going on are your own people. The shootings at the new year were a former army veteran. You are the one in la-la land. There is a disturbing rise in home grown right wing violence and extremism. Hell the people who stormed your capital and were charged with violent sedition were just pardoned. I guess they are the good terrorists. Edited February 2 by Spooky
cubsfan Posted February 2 Posted February 2 18 minutes ago, cwericb said: No lies, Trump pre-staged the meeting with the threat. Short memory? Not at all... What an amazing, cool headed and professional response from Mulino... perhaps that is the end of it. Now that wasn't hard was it??? And just think - no temper tantrum. Mulino did say Panama would not be renewing its agreement with China’s Belt and Road Initiative when it expires.
Parsad Posted February 2 Posted February 2 For board members...the tariffs kick in Tuesday. I'll give you till midnight tonight PST to vent all you want and then this thread is locked. Food for thought...if a bully pushes far enough, unintended consequences may erupt. What if Canada, Denmark and the South American countries pulled out from any nuclear non-proliferation agreements. Remote, antagonistic and extremely improbable, but we've seen unlikely things happen many times. When you are dealing with a bully that initiates economic warfare, how far behind is military warfare if they don't get their way? Canada is one of the few countries in the world that has the capacity to have nuclear weapons but chose not to. Canada has all of the components except refining plutonium to build nuclear weapons. Think about all of the pushing from India that forced Pakistan to arm itself. Canada could have nuclear weapons within 2-4 years. Now that is the most militant extreme reaction over time...but there is an outlier chance it could happen and plunge the United States into action to prevent that from happening. Is that really the long-term outcome we want to see? Less than 10 years ago, it was unlikely we could imagine things getting this heated in the U.S./Canada relationship. I was wary of a Trump victory then, while most people didn't expect it. This time, I was even more fearful of a 2nd term. Now we're firing tariffs back at each other and one party is threatening to annex another sovereign nation. While I never expected a civil war, I certainly expected the possibility of domestic terrorism in the United States rising in the last decade. I still believe that political rhetoric is so extreme that nutjobs will do more stupid things going forward. Which is a very sad state of affairs! In almost all circumstances, I've found that negotiation and compromise usually leads to better outcomes then trying to obliterate one party which leads to continued retaliation between both. It is easy to let things escalate because emotions and fear run high. Hopefully cooler heads prevail and both parties return to the table! Anyway, you have till midnight and then I lock this garbage up. Cheers!
cubsfan Posted February 2 Posted February 2 11 minutes ago, Spooky said: Why don't you look into a mirror and your own citizens? All the mass shootings going on are your own people. The shootings at the new year were a former army veteran. You are the one in la-la land. There is a disturbing rise in home grown right wing violence and extremism. Hell the people who stormed your capital and were charged with violent sedition were just pardoned. Oh we are in agreement on most of that. This is a deeply divided nation. The USA had a choice - go hard left with the globalists that could give a fuck about the American middle class - or return to center right and focus on the country and those left behind. Fortunately - the citizens have choosen their leader and away from socialism.
Maverick47 Posted February 2 Posted February 2 9 minutes ago, Spooky said: Why don't you look into a mirror and your own citizens? All the mass shootings going on are your own people. The shootings at the new year were a former army veteran. You are the one in la-la land. There is a disturbing rise in home grown right wing violence and extremism. Hell the people who stormed your capital and were charged with violent sedition were just pardoned. +1 Pretty sad state of affairs here in the US. The party holding the slimmest margin in the House of Representatives in decades acting as if there is a massive mandate for change and disruption both at home and abroad, while burying their heads in the sand about the importance of character in leadership, value of long term alliances, etc, all for the pursuit of meaningless tactical (not strategic) transactional economic “victories”. Here’s hoping the damage done won’t be irreparable.
Spooky Posted February 2 Posted February 2 6 minutes ago, Parsad said: Canada is one of the few countries in the world that has the capacity to have nuclear weapons but chose not to. Canada has all of the components except refining plutonium to build nuclear weapons. Think about all of the pushing from India that forced Pakistan to arm itself. Canada could have nuclear weapons within 2-4 years. We did have nukes in the past and gave them up.
SharperDingaan Posted February 2 Author Posted February 2 (edited) Trump has burnt a lot of political capital to do this, and cannot afford an extended period of counter tariffs. 300,000 Michigan auto workers will be laid-off within 2 weeks. More recent numbers put the total number of US autoworkers at 990,000; then add the job losses in the myriad other industries that are also being affected. Dec 2024, there were 6.9 M people unemployed in the US ... by the end of March it could well be 8.5 M+ (up 20%+, in two months). https://www.bridgemi.com/business-watch/numbers-how-many-uaw-members-michigan-how-much-would-strike-cost https://www.statista.com/statistics/574197/leading-us-states-in-terms-of-automotive-industry-employement/ https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNEMPLOY/ The USCMA became effective July 2020, and runs through July 2036. Try as he might; Trump can't force either Canada or Mexico to re-negotiate early, and Trump will be gone by 2029. Lot of strutting, but a melting ice cube. Canada leads, everyone else follows, and very shortly thereafter almost everything the US makes is under some kind of tariff. The US ain't selling squat abroad, and everyone else is selling between themselves at no tariff. Deporting illegals doesn't reduce the unemployment rate either, as they aren't registered, it just makes it harder to find labour willing to accept the poor pay. Orange crush. It is a simple matter to load WCS at market price onto tankers, then resell the cargo to west coast refiners via flags that are tariff free. The only limitation is the capacity of the pipe, and the ability of oil-trains to supplement the tide-water egress. Cushing inventory is nominal, Alberta gets world price on the same volume, the refiner pays world price on the same volume, and the tax man gets ... nothing. Complements to Ari Onassis As in hockey; punch back hard, keep punching, and pretty soon there's a pile on, and penalties. Keep raising the heat ... and ice cubes quickly turn into puddles SD Edited February 2 by SharperDingaan
Ulti Posted February 2 Posted February 2 https://www.eia.gov/uranium/marketing/ we import 27% of our uranium from Canada… I wonder how tariffs will affect the us effort to upgrade our weapons and build our nuclear plants for data centers
wisdom Posted February 2 Posted February 2 (edited) A lot of the rhetoric reminds me of WMD and Iraq war where the naive believed the false evidence and believed the government line that the troops would be welcomed as saviours and everything will be changed forever in the Middle East. I hope for everyone’s sake things turn out as per the President’s claims though history is against it. Life is not as simple and the answers are even more complicated than those who are so sure can imagine. I especially worry when you have a leader who is narcissistic and so sure of what he knows. Edited February 2 by wisdom
Peregrine Posted February 2 Posted February 2 How are these tariffs even going to be implemented? With products that criss-cross the border multiple times? I doubt that the Trump admin has thought through this with any level of detail. More likely that it's yet more brinksmanship tactics from the guy who made a career out of brinksmanship. Let Canada and Mexico make some announcements about fentanyl control and give him the off-ramp that he's seeking.
Castanza Posted February 2 Posted February 2 Lots of finger pointing. The fact is Western Nations (plural) have been failed by poor leadership the last three decades. Trump and his irrationality is the result of decades of poor leadership by all Western Nations. US citizens were tired of being last so they got a “King” who said he would put them first. Time will tell if that works out, but the rest of the Western Nations sure like to sling mud and provide their citizens very cushy lives (likely at the cost of future generations) all while being supported and protected by the US. How about some self examination of your own countries? How about Western Countries start electing actual fucking leaders who take a stake in the future of Western Global Leadership instead of kissing the ass of anyone or any group that will keep them in office. I can’t name a single Western Leader in any country that I would want in as President of the US currently.
SharperDingaan Posted February 2 Author Posted February 2 1 minute ago, Peregrine said: How are these tariffs even going to be implemented? With products that criss-cross the border multiple times? I doubt that the Trump admin has thought through this with any level of detail. More likely that it's yet more brinksmanship tactics from the guy who made a career out of brinksmanship. Let Canada and Mexico make some announcements about fentanyl control and give him the off-ramp that he's seeking. Better to call the bluff and keep the balls on the flame, as prairie oysters taste a lot better roasted. Fuck with us, and you ain't ever going to try it again SD
wisdom Posted February 2 Posted February 2 5 minutes ago, Castanza said: Lots of finger pointing. The fact is Western Nations (plural) have been failed by poor leadership the last three decades. Trump and his irrationality is the result of decades of poor leadership by all Western Nations. US citizens were tired of being last so they got a “King” who said he would put them first. Time will tell if that works out, but the rest of the Western Nations sure like to sling mud and provide their citizens very cushy lives (likely at the cost of future generations) all while being supported and protected by the US. How about some self examination of your own countries? How about Western Countries start electing actual fucking leaders who take a stake in the future of Western Global Leadership instead of kissing the ass of anyone or any group that will keep them in office. I can’t name a single Western Leader in any country that I would want in as President of the US currently. Agreed - unfortunately you need a crisis to force change and doing the right thing. So in some ways Trump may be our saviour by making a mess first. He could be so successful that China could look good.
cubsfan Posted February 2 Posted February 2 10 minutes ago, Castanza said: Lots of finger pointing. The fact is Western Nations (plural) have been failed by poor leadership the last three decades. Trump and his irrationality is the result of decades of poor leadership by all Western Nations. US citizens were tired of being last so they got a “King” who said he would put them first. Time will tell if that works out, but the rest of the Western Nations sure like to sling mud and provide their citizens very cushy lives (likely at the cost of future generations) all while being supported and protected by the US. How about some self examination of your own countries? How about Western Countries start electing actual fucking leaders who take a stake in the future of Western Global Leadership instead of kissing the ass of anyone or any group that will keep them in office. I can’t name a single Western Leader in any country that I would want in as President of the US currently. 100% - you may not like him. Some in the USA hate him. He won by a landslide on the issues. I have little doubt he'll keep his promises to rebuild the middle class.
Parsad Posted February 2 Posted February 2 7 minutes ago, wisdom said: Agreed - unfortunately you need a crisis to force change and doing the right thing. So in some ways Trump may be our saviour by making a mess first. He could be so successful that China could look good. Hockey analogy...so for our friends south of the border, please don't get bored. But about 10 years ago, the Vancouver Canucks were stinking it up after making a run at the Stanley Cup a few years earlier. The team was in upheaval and out of the playoffs for a couple of years. Unfortunately, the owners weren't very patient and brought in John Tortorella to change things. Instead, the door fell completely off the hinges and total chaos ensued for the club. It took years...pretty much until last season...to right the ship. The lesson...owners brought in a coach to create accountability. Unfortunately it was the wrong coach and instead he created utter chaos and put the club back over 5 years from where it would have been. In other words...be careful what you wish for...accountability would be great, but chaos would be the last thing you want! Cheers!
Castanza Posted February 2 Posted February 2 (edited) 18 minutes ago, wisdom said: Agreed - unfortunately you need a crisis to force change and doing the right thing. So in some ways Trump may be our saviour by making a mess first. He could be so successful that China could look good. Crisis lights fires under peoples asses. For better or worse that’s what Trump does. How it shakes out….no clue. But instead of bitching incessantly the rest of the Western nations should focus on on innovation, defense etc. Longterm I think that’s good for “The West”. Stronger independent nations makes for stronger alliances. Edited February 2 by Castanza
Buckeye Posted February 2 Posted February 2 (edited) 21 minutes ago, cubsfan said: 100% - you may not like him. Some in the USA hate him. He won by a landslide on the issues. I have little doubt he'll keep his promises to rebuild the middle class. Except for he didn’t win by a landslide Sean. Donald Trump won the 2024 election with one of the smallest popular-vote margins in U.S. history, but in news deserts – counties lacking a professional source of local news – it was an avalanche. Edited February 2 by Buckeye
Peregrine Posted February 2 Posted February 2 9 minutes ago, Castanza said: Crisis lights fires under peoples asses. For better or worse that’s what Trump does. How it shakes out….no clue. But instead of bitching incessantly the rest of the Western nations should focus on on innovation, defense etc. Longterm I think that’s good for “The West”. Stronger independent nations makes for stronger alliances. The view that brinksmanship is beneficial is a bit myopic. Yeah in the short-term, Trump probably gets a few concessions from its allies and is able to beat his chest about what a great deal he made. Over the long-term, you alienate your friends who are now more likely to seek alternatives to working with you. Is that trade-off worth it? Probably for Trump who always thinks in zero-sum terms and is only in office for another 4 years. Not so for the country.
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