Xerxes Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 this I find to be a great analysis. Pure analytical work from Foreign Affairs. The guest speaker is an Iranian American. so yeah I am bias ! https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-foreign-affairs-interview/id1623855270?i=1000657277974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 (edited) On 5/30/2024 at 3:00 PM, cubsfan said: We need to be real this. This is what, the 4th war with Palestinians now?? IF you think there will not be a 5th or 6th, you're dreaming. The only chance the Israelis have to stop another war is to completely destroy Hamas. The fools are still launching missiles into Israel. A much weaker military power decides to attack a much stronger military believing their will be no consequences AND has the gall to take hostages. Hamas has assured it's utter destruction. It's very humane to feel for the people of Gaza - but this is their duly elected government. Yeah...more hostages freed today with 100 troops and complicated operation. Israels military said that Hamas was going for constant open fire on them including rocket launchers. Hostages were hidden in family homes with some hamas weaponized terrorists. What a situation... Protests at the white house for Palestine are escalating Maybe a wrong analogy but: Would it be okay to protest against the allied attacks on nazi germany? What choice is there to arrange security for Israel besides completely annihilating the Palestinian government and doing a colonialization mission like with Germany in 1945? Many germans died back then and they were as much normal citizens as the people in Palestine. Both citizens probably supported the violent government. Thoughts? Edited June 8 by Luca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 286 days as a hostage. At the same time: "Nidal Abdo, was shopping in Nuseirat on Saturday when he described a “crazy bombardment” hitting. “[It was] something we never witnessed before, maybe 150 rockets fell in less than 10 minutes, while we were running away more fell on the market,” he said. “There are children torn apart and scattered in the streets, they wiped out Nuseirat, it is hell on earth,” he said. Another local, Abu Abdallah, said the strike hit while people were sleeping, adding: “Dogs were eating people’s remains. We pulled out six martyrs, all torn up children and women, we risked our lives to get them to the hospital.” Footage from Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital shows trucks and ambulances transferring injured people and bodies to the hospital. The hospital’s emergency room is overwhelmed. People can be seen in the footage waiting on the hospital floor. Graphic video shows many Palestinians, including children, injured with blood on their faces and clothes. Footage from the hospital also shows people screaming and crying, huddled over bodies covered in blankets." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 1 hour ago, Luca said: Maybe a wrong analogy but: Would it be okay to protest against the allied attacks on nazi germany? No, that is exactly the right analogy. Unfortunately, the Palestinians are far from innocent. Once the Israelis go house-to-house in Gaza, they are finding weapons & munitions stashes in 50% of the Palestinian homes. They generally go straight to the children's rooms and find them hidden. And where do they find these hostages? Private homes Like the Rafa scam - the world screams bloody murder until 700 additional military tunnels are discovered in Rafa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted June 9 Author Share Posted June 9 9 hours ago, cubsfan said: No, that is exactly the right analogy. Unfortunately, the Palestinians are far from innocent. Once the Israelis go house-to-house in Gaza, they are finding weapons & munitions stashes in 50% of the Palestinian homes. They generally go straight to the children's rooms and find them hidden. And where do they find these hostages? Private homes Like the Rafa scam - the world screams bloody murder until 700 additional military tunnels are discovered in Rafa. Its strange how people in the palestine camp tend to blend these facts out and ignore it. Quite black and white nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 A dishonest & corrupt media will do that for you - sway the public opinion. The same media that reported the Israelis hit a hospital and killed 500 Palestinians, until weeks later the truth was revealed that Hamas rockets did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changegonnacome Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) On 5/30/2024 at 9:00 AM, cubsfan said: The only chance the Israelis have to stop another war is to completely destroy Hamas. Lets be clear here....you can destroy Hamas, every last single weasel...I'm all for it...but the deep underlying problem is Hamas is really just the extremist arm of an idea....probably the most powerful idea of our age....nationalism....in this case Palestinian nationalism......you would think Zionist's would understand this reality deeply.....most nationalist movements have those at the extreme who are willing to do unspeakable things to further their aims. There is no price too high for the true nationalist zealot......the list of examples here is endless.....nationalism (an elevated form of tribalism) boils the blood of angry young men like nothing else that has ever been invented.....and the Palestinian have the worst strain of nationalism known to mankind.....sectarian nationalism......mixing religion (God) and nationalism (tribe) is just a powder keg. So its naive to think you can effectively kill an ideology......there will ALWAYS be a subset of the Palestinian nationalist movement who see extreme violence and terrorism as the optimal route to get their own state. So this military exercise by the IDF will cut off the violent snake head of this multi headed palestinian nationalist movement for a time.....but be under no illusions that it will regenerate over time.....cause the Palestinian desire for self-government is not going away.....in the same way that Israel's desire to remain a jewish homeland itself won't go away. Its a terrible bind for Israel....they know an Oct 7th type issue will occur every couple of decades with the status quo.....the clock is now simply ticking till the next one........but I think what the Israeli far right wont tell you..in a world of only bad options moving forward for Israel......an Oct 7th type incident say c.20yrs might be a preferable outcome to enabling a truly sovereign autonomous Palestinian state on Israel's doorstep. Edited June 13 by changegonnacome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 ^^^ I don't disagree. It's a terrible dilemma for Israeli, however they have no choice. The price will be high. We've seen vicious, ideological murder cults before: German Nazism, Soviet Communism, Italian Facism, Militaristic Japan, ISIS... in our own country the KKK. They can be destroyed, they can be controlled. Populations can be rehabilitated. Look what post-war miracles Japan, Italy, Germany are. Hell - they even deny their past, as if it never happened - after a total humiliation. Gaza will be the same way - the only choice is to obliterate and humiliate Hamas, and it's happening. Then maybe the Palestinians will realize that following a terrorist government will lead to nothing more than their own death, destruction and misery. Gaza could have been an economic miracle as well if they had not used their billions in aid to create a subterranean military city. Such fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changegonnacome Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 On 6/13/2024 at 7:59 AM, cubsfan said: They can be destroyed, they can be controlled. Populations can be rehabilitated. Look what post-war miracles Japan, Italy, Germany Think your missing my point......until Palestinian has an autonomous state......Palestinian nationalism will live on...with moderate and extremist arms.......and the historical record more or less shows the primacy of nationalism when a geographic location has a population of say 70%+ that identify as a nation other than that which is their technical nation.......all your examples above speak to that......the Allied forces effectively returned these conquered countries to autonomy & self-determination in time......Palestinian nationalism (ironic cause it was never a official country) is not going away like the KKK either.......the KKK existed under the umbrella of US nationalism...when the meme of racism petered out so too did the KKK cause it was a derivative of US nationalism.....Palestinian nationalism exists alone...it has primacy...there is no other idea above it. Self-determination expressed through nationalism is the main idea of our age......the post-colonial British Empire broke apart on the principle of self-determination by a people that roughly identified as one.....again the US is example of this....I myself come from a former British colony.....but within living memory versus the US......my grandparents we're able to tell me about a time when Irish nationalism and self-determination was forced to sit under the umrella of British nationalism....as the British Empire broke apart they tried in piecemeal fashion to maintain it...to devolve local power, to local colonies....it didn't work out at all and it never really works out...sovereignty and self-determination is like the joke about pregnancy....its impossible to be half pregnant....and its impossible to have half your nationalist desires quenched. On 6/13/2024 at 7:59 AM, cubsfan said: Gaza could have been an economic miracle as well if they had not used their billions in aid to create a subterranean military city. Such fools. Nationalism cares little for money......or the economy......ask the British most recently with Brexit......it was clear as mud that they would be worse off economically but it didn't matter....they felt the lack of autonomy and sovereignty constrained inside the EU..they broke free, at a cost to their economy....the idea of nationalism & self-determination is fundamentally immune to bribery.....its why Israel knows that even if Gaza became some kind of ward of the Saudi & Qatari's and got all the investment in the world..became an economic mircale as you say......in time...the Palenstian's would kick against their golden cage....and demand true autonomy & self-determination not a derivative form dependent on Israeli permission & Saudi/Qatari subvention. You want a shot at Palestinian problem to actually go away in time......the two State solution is the only shot at this. If I were Israel......and thinking about it from the real poltik of it all.....I think you destroy Gaza while destroying Hamas (as they pretty much have)....make some half hearted attempt after to create a governing coalition for Gaza where your really still in control....but enough that is some half-pregnant version of Palestinian nationalism..some devolved local powers.....you slow roll its rebuilding at every turn.......and in twenty years, hopefully 30 or 40yrs you get another Oct 7th.......then you do it all over again....destroy Gaza, slow roll its rebuilding....ad infinitum. Its sad but its true. Cause the variables of the equation are irrefutable. - Palestinian nationalism wont go away until they have true Statehood - Israel nationalism is not going away and anything opposed to Israeli nationalism is an existential threat - the creation of Palestinian state has a non-zero probability of creating an existential threat to Israel in time - ergo the creation of one is not in Israel's best interests Its why its such an intractable problem....and the idea of rebuilding Gaza is a nice one with Saudi & Qatari assistance....but whats the phrase....you can't teach peace to the conquered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulti Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-view-from-the-israeli-right/id1548604447?i=1000659007063 Apple podcast provide a transcript Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 49 minutes ago, changegonnacome said: Think your missing my point......until Palestinian has an autonomous state......Palestinian nationalism will live on... Seriously, I'm not missing your point at all. I just don't buy it. "Palestine" encompassed large parts of Jordan as well - and the Palestinians tried to overthrow Jordan government. They got kicked out of Egypt as well. Kuwait kicked them out when the sided with Saddam. Lebanon is currently a failed state largely due to the PLO during the civil wars in Lebanon. Countries have tried with the Palestinians - and the smart Arab states know they can't live with them. 2 million Palestinians have a great life in Israel as Israeli citizens. The Palestinians were given Gaza - and they could do something with the West Bank - but they have proved they can't live with anyone EVEN as a peaceful neighbor. Arab states don't want them, and you think Israel will give up more territory to these terrorists that are "committed" to the destruction of the Jewish state. No way. The Palestinians can't even make something work in the territories they occupy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 1 hour ago, changegonnacome said: you can't teach peace to the conquered. Yeah, this is so NOT true. It happened in Germany, Italy, Japan - all raging successes in the face of fanatical beliefs of being the master races. It will NOT be easy. It will require total defeat and humiliation of their leaders. Until that happens there will never be a chance for peace. Just think - it's all up to the Palestinians now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changegonnacome Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 7 minutes ago, cubsfan said: The Palestinians were given Gaza Again missing my point......given Gaza....you do realise Gaza is not a country right?.....it not an autonomous sovereign state...so fails the true test of nationalism dream.....automony, self-determintion.....THIS is the most important point and nuance here your missing. 2 minutes ago, cubsfan said: Yeah, this is so NOT true. It happened in Germany, Italy, Japan Yes it is......last I checked Germany, Italy and Japan are not occupied or subjected people....they transitioned out of occupation into automony and sovereignty in time...because the Allied forces ultimately realized that it would impossible over time to quell German, Italian or Japanese desire for sovereignty and autonomy and a roadmap was created for them to exi.....if we still occupied and subjected those countries I can assure you there would be a nationalist extremist group Hamas-like blowing up US soldiers and US settlers stationed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 1 hour ago, changegonnacome said: Again missing my point......given Gaza....you do realise Gaza is not a country right?.....it not an autonomous sovereign state...so fails the true test of nationalism dream.....automony, self-determintion.....THIS is the most important point and nuance here your missing. Yes it is......last I checked Germany, Italy and Japan are not occupied or subjected people....they transitioned out of occupation into automony and sovereignty in time...because the Allied forces ultimately realized that it would impossible over time to quell German, Italian or Japanese desire for sovereignty and autonomy and a roadmap was created for them to exi.....if we still occupied and subjected those countries I can assure you there would be a nationalist extremist group Hamas-like blowing up US soldiers and US settlers stationed there. You’re dreaming dude. The Palestinians elected their own government - unfortunately , a terrorist government. No one runs the Gaza territory except Hamas. Pretty simple stuff really. I’m not missing a thing. You are playing with semantics - but go right ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 1 hour ago, changegonnacome said: Again missing my point......given Gaza....you do realise Gaza is not a country right?.....it not an autonomous sovereign state...so fails the true test of nationalism dream.....automony, self-determintion.....THIS is the most important point and nuance here your missing. Yes it is......last I checked Germany, Italy and Japan are not occupied or subjected people....they transitioned out of occupation into automony and sovereignty in time...because the Allied forces ultimately realized that it would impossible over time to quell German, Italian or Japanese desire for sovereignty and autonomy and a roadmap was created for them to exi.....if we still occupied and subjected those countries I can assure you there would be a nationalist extremist group Hamas-like blowing up US soldiers and US settlers stationed there. Germany, Italy and Japan were occupied for many, many years by occupation forces of the victors until they PROVED they were no longer a threat to their neighbors. They were occupied precisely to control vestiges of radicalism that still lived on. Absolutely NO difference than Gaza. Again, a radically simple concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 A war crime is only a war crime if one loses the war, otherwise it’s a necessary means to win. One has to keep that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 On 6/14/2024 at 1:37 PM, cubsfan said: Seriously, I'm not missing your point at all. I just don't buy it. "Palestine" encompassed large parts of Jordan as well - and the Palestinians tried to overthrow Jordan government. They got kicked out of Egypt as well. Kuwait kicked them out when the sided with Saddam. Lebanon is currently a failed state largely due to the PLO during the civil wars in Lebanon. Countries have tried with the Palestinians - and the smart Arab states know they can't live with them. 2 million Palestinians have a great life in Israel as Israeli citizens. The Palestinians were given Gaza - and they could do something with the West Bank - but they have proved they can't live with anyone EVEN as a peaceful neighbor. Arab states don't want them, and you think Israel will give up more territory to these terrorists that are "committed" to the destruction of the Jewish state. No way. The Palestinians can't even make something work in the territories they occupy. Totally agree. Palestina is a lost cause. None of the neighboring countries want it - only those far enough way and those who want to use them for their own political means support them. Egypt, Jordan, Syria all had their fill and want them gone. Lebanon got destroyed to a large extent by Palestinian subversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatstheofficerproblem Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Pardon my unparliamentary language, but what the absolute fuckery is this? https://reason.com/2024/06/15/house-passes-bill-to-automatically-register-young-men-for-the-draft/ https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-118hr8070rh/pdf/BILLS-118hr8070rh.pdf So men ages 18-26 are automatically registered for duty? Notice the language, it says residents not citizens, so your immigrant status doesn't matter. It is very clear that the Gov wants to use immigrants as cannon fodder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinar Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 6 minutes ago, whatstheofficerproblem said: Pardon my unparliamentary language, but what the absolute fuckery is this? https://reason.com/2024/06/15/house-passes-bill-to-automatically-register-young-men-for-the-draft/ https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-118hr8070rh/pdf/BILLS-118hr8070rh.pdf So men ages 18-26 are automatically registered for duty? Notice the language, it says residents not citizens, so your immigrant status doesn't matter. It is very clear that the Gov wants to use immigrants as cannon fodder. It has been the law of the land in the US for decades that you had to register for selective service = the draft when you turned 18. I did it 30 years ago and I was not a citizen at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 ^^^ The Biden administration has demonized white males as racists - and vowed to root out white supremacists in the military. You might remember Pentagon General Mark Milley expresses his concern about "white rage" - and his commitment to DEI across the armed forces. His full commitment to Dr Ibram X Kendi and "anti-racism". Result: Recruitment numbers are down 50,000 - all white males. Since America's armed forces are predominately "white" - smart citizens have refused to enlist since the are labeled as "racist", when in fact, they love their country and consider it a privilege to serve their country. Such is the disaster of DEI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatstheofficerproblem Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 7 minutes ago, cubsfan said: Such is the disaster of DEI. While DEI is a part of the equation, that is not the cause. Today's 18-26 year olds have no drive to serve the country because they see no need to? In their minds what has this country given them? Mental health issues and polarisation, everything is expensive, the american dream is practically dead, you can't buy a house, a meal in McD costs $15, healthcare is a joke etc etc. Mainstream media, bipartisan politics and to an extent late stage crony capitalism combined with shortsighted policies, federalism has tarnished the country beyond repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 3 minutes ago, whatstheofficerproblem said: While DEI is a part of the equation, that is not the cause. Today's 18-26 year olds have no drive to serve the country because they see no need to? In their minds what has this country given them? Mental health issues and polarisation, everything is expensive, the american dream is practically dead, you can't buy a house, a meal in McD costs $15, healthcare is a joke etc etc. Mainstream media, bipartisan politics and to an extent late stage crony capitalism combined with shortsighted policies, federalism has tarnished the country beyond repair. No - that's not right. The recruitment issue started the last few years. Blacks and hispanics have continued to sign up in the direct proportions as previously. The entire 50,000 deficit is due to to white males avoiding military service. DEI has been a disaster for military recruitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 6 hours ago, whatstheofficerproblem said: Pardon my unparliamentary language, but what the absolute fuckery is this? https://reason.com/2024/06/15/house-passes-bill-to-automatically-register-young-men-for-the-draft/ https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-118hr8070rh/pdf/BILLS-118hr8070rh.pdf So men ages 18-26 are automatically registered for duty? Notice the language, it says residents not citizens, so your immigrant status doesn't matter. It is very clear that the Gov wants to use immigrants as cannon fodder. This law has been around forever, there is nothing new about it. I think the new thing is that they want to automate the registration. This has nothing to do with Biden, DEI etc either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) The United States military has disastrous recruiting problem. Voluntary enlistments among white males are way down. The Pentagon is like a dinasour caught in their own DEI tar pit: If you are a patriotic white young man, and have been vilified by the Pentagon brass who sees a need to root out white supremacy - then you got the message loud and clear - which is LGBTQ and racial status matter more than meritocracy - you're the problem Who in their right mind would sign up for that? Edited June 16 by cubsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamecock-YT Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) Who in their right mind would sign up after 20 straight years of military conflict with boomers in power on both sides of the aisle revving to send another generation to fight in more meaningless conflicts? But it's DEI that's the problem........right. Edited June 17 by Gamecock-YT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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