Is Europe becoming uninvestable?

[james22]

About ten years ago I went on a junket to Switzerland and attended a talk with the CEO of Nestlé. Listening to him, it became very clear to me that he had little to no interest in free markets or capitalism properly understood.

 

He saw his corporation as a “partner” with governments, NGOs, the U.N., and other massive multinationals. The profit motive was good for efficiency and rewarding talent, but beyond that, he wanted order and predictability and as much planning as he could get. 

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2009/06/liberal-fascism-20-interview/

[james22]

 

[Dalal.Holdings]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-06/merz-falls-short-of-majority-in-initial-german-parliament-vote?srnd=homepage-americas

 

Quote

While the conservative leader is still expected to take charge of a ruling coalition of his CDU/CSU bloc and the Social Democrats, it was the first time since World War II that an incoming chancellor failed to secure backing from lawmakers in the first round of voting in the Bundestag and triggered chaos in Berlin’s government quarter.

 

First time since WW2 that this has happened...it is now clear that the people who represent EU establishment--Ursula, the army of bureaucrats in Brussels--these people no longer represent the European citizen:

 

 

Parties like the AfD are on the rise and almost certainly set to win the next set of elections. It's a judgement on people like Merkel, Ursula Von De Leyen, World Economic Forum types, etc. And there are anti-democratic steps being taken to try and stop this massive force: cancelling elections in Romania, convicting Marine Le Pen, German intelligence investigating AfD...

 

If Merz wants to try to stop this, the only way is to massively focus his attention on what the people of Germany (especially in the former East Germany) want and how to make them more prosperous. Investigating and persecuting the AfD will only make them stronger...

[whiskybravo]

7 minutes ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-06/merz-falls-short-of-majority-in-initial-german-parliament-vote?srnd=homepage-americas

 

 

First time since WW2 that this has happened...it is now clear that the people who represent EU establishment--Ursula, the army of bureaucrats in Brussels--these people no longer represent the European citizen:

 

 

Parties like the AfD are on the rise and almost certainly set to win the next set of elections. It's a judgement on people like Merkel, Ursula Von De Leyen, World Economic Forum types, etc. And there are anti-democratic steps being taken to try and stop this massive force: cancelling elections in Romania, convicting Marine Le Pen, German intelligence investigating AfD...

 

If Merz wants to try to stop this, the only way is to massively focus his attention on what the people of Germany (especially in the former East Germany) want and how to make them more prosperous. Investigating and persecuting the AfD will only make them stronger...

Coalition with AfD. Problem solved.

[Dalal.Holdings]

16 minutes ago, whiskybravo said:

Coalition with AfD. Problem solved.

 

The German establishment has declared AfD and anyone in it persona non grata...same as in France for Marine Le Pen and her party, same for EU elites and Romanian elections, etc etc...

 

Germany's intelligence community just branded AfD as "extremist" and is going to set up spying on them. Sounds like the court case against Marine Le Pen and cancelling of elections in Romania to me. Sounds pretty undemocratic.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-spy-agency-ranks-far-right-afd-extremist-2025-05-02/

 

The problem is that the more they try to undermine these groups, the stronger they become. In this way, European elites become more and more distanced from its people and eventually the people must get what they want. These elites instead need to start listening to their people. They've totally screwed up on the economy, migration, etc.

 

 

[Sweet]

Another facepalm by the British government, and two middle fingers to British workers:

 

 

[Dalal.Holdings]

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-starmer-under-pressure-farage-tightens-migration-rules-2025-05-11/

 

Quote

UK's Starmer, under pressure from Farage, pledges big drop in immigration

 

So in the UK you have Reform UK, in France you have National Rally, and in Germany you have AfD. All three "far right" parties are gaining ground in the major powers of Europe... Sounds like pretty soon these parties won't be "far right" but the mainstream...

 

And you have Starmer, Merz, Macron pivoting on everything from immigration and the economy in a last ditch effort to save their skins...

[cubsfan]

^^^ It has to happen, lest Europe become destroyed.  Just like in the USA, you can try and jail your political opponents, you can try and bankrupt them, you can try and ban them, you can try and kill them.  But only cowards do that, because the people are not with them. 

 

Eventually, the truth will come out, and the people will rise up.

[Marco Van Basten]

1 hour ago, cubsfan said:

^^^ It has to happen, lest Europe become destroyed.  Just like in the USA, you can try and jail your political opponents, you can try and bankrupt them, you can try and ban them, you can try and kill them.  But only cowards do that, because the people are not with them. 

 

Eventually, the truth will come out, and the people will rise up.

Unfortunately, it does not always happen that way.  Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Stalin's USSR & Putin's Russia are good counter-examples.  

[Dalal.Holdings]

The best thing is watching these losers like Starmer who was all for jailing people for anti-immigrant speech now doing this tap dance:

 

 

It’s absolutely hilarious to see these guys echo what they labeled as “far right” just 6 months ago.
 

These guys are true idiots and it’s probably too late for them

 

Edited May 15, 2025 by Dalal.Holdings

[cubsfan]

13 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Unfortunately, it does not always happen that way.  Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Stalin's USSR & Putin's Russia are good counter-examples.  

 

I certainly understand that. But Europe has always claimed to be democratic. 

Clearly, many of their leaders are not. Only the European citizen can save his country from 

becoming one of your counter-examples.

[cubsfan]

8 minutes ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

The best thing is watching these losers like Starmer who was all for jailing people for anti-immigrant speech now doing this tap dance:

 

 

It’s absolutely hilarious to see these guys echo what they labeled as “far right” just 6 months ago.
 

These guys are true idiots and it’s probably too late for them

 

 

Absolutely. Like Gavin Newsome, Governor of California. Some of these sleaze-bags will say anything to stay in power.

[thowed]

10 hours ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

So in the UK you have Reform UK, in France you have National Rally, and in Germany you have AfD. All three "far right" parties are gaining ground in the major powers of Europe... Sounds like pretty soon these parties won't be "far right" but the mainstream...

 

JFC - yeah, that worked out really well last time.

 

It's easy to posture about this stuff from across the pond.  Those of us who had family who died in WW2 may see it a bit differently.

 

[Dalal.Holdings]

3 hours ago, thowed said:

 

JFC - yeah, that worked out really well last time.

 

It's easy to posture about this stuff from across the pond.  Those of us who had family who died in WW2 may see it a bit differently.

 

 

I hate to break it to you, but not everything is a WW2 reenactment and not everyone you disagree with is Adolf Hitler. But yeah, I understand that this type of basic level thinking allows elections to be cancelled in Romania and Marine Le Pen to be convicted and AfD to be spied on in Germany. The justification for it is "we can't let the 1930s happen again".

 

I know a lot of people are having a hard time accepting the reality that it is not the 1930s all over again which precludes them from admitting the massive mistakes their "mainstream" European leaders have made and keep making.

 

Edited May 15, 2025 by Dalal.Holdings

[Dalal.Holdings]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-15/thyssenkrupp-holds-guidance-despite-slump-in-earnings-cash

 

German industrial stalwart reports not great results. Will Germany actually unload its fiscal cannon or is it too divided to do anything about its long term economic stagnation? Its auto industry looks toast in the 21st century...

 

Merz refuses to work with large AfD bloc in the Bundestag and he couldn't even get elevated to chancellor with his own coalition the first time. Does he even have the votes in the Bundestag to make the fiscal expansion a reality ?

[cubsfan]

^^^ Demonizing and locking up or barring your political opponents is a clear sign of weakness.

All it proves is that your message is failing and you are afraid to lose your grip on power.

[Dalal.Holdings]

4 hours ago, cubsfan said:

^^^ Demonizing and locking up or barring your political opponents is a clear sign of weakness.

All it proves is that your message is failing and you are afraid to lose your grip on power.

 

Yep, and the more they attack AfD/National Rally/Reform UK via unscrupulous means, the stronger these movements become. They are anti-fragile in many ways.

 

Trump was convicted on bogus "falsifying business records" charges and the people saw through the b.s. immediately and it gave credibility to his "witch hunt" charges and claims of dems weaponizing the justice system against their political enemies.

 

Edited May 15, 2025 by Dalal.Holdings

[RichardGibbons]

10 hours ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

 

I hate to break it to you, but not everything is a WW2 reenactment and not everyone you disagree with is Adolf Hitler. But yeah, I understand that this type of basic level thinking allows elections to be cancelled in Romania and Marine Le Pen to be convicted and AfD to be spied on in Germany. The justification for it is "we can't let the 1930s happen again".

 

I know a lot of people are having a hard time accepting the reality that it is not the 1930s all over again which precludes them from admitting the massive mistakes their "mainstream" European leaders have made and keep making.

 

 

Edit: removed political content I wrote before I realized that this thread didn't have the political tag.

 

Edited May 15, 2025 by RichardGibbons
Accidentally posted political content on non-political thread

[Spooky]

1 hour ago, RichardGibbons said:

Like, in Canada, in every election without fail, the Liberals are talking about gun control and abortion. It's very clear that they're doing that not because gun control and abortion are actually important issues for the election, but rather because they know that the electorate will respond to the rhetoric. (And, if those were actual issues and the Liberals cared, they could've actually solved them during that last decade or so that they've had power.)

 

Maybe I missed it but I listened to a lot of Carney's speeches and I didn't hear him mention abortion or gun control once.

[RichardGibbons]

1 hour ago, Spooky said:

 

Maybe I missed it but I listened to a lot of Carney's speeches and I didn't hear him mention abortion or gun control once.

 

Ah, okay, in that case, let me help you with that:

 

Edit: Darn just realized that this isn't a political thread, so deleted my content.

 

Edited May 15, 2025 by RichardGibbons
Accidentally posted political content on non-political thread.

[Spekulatius]

On 3/20/2025 at 7:31 PM, Spekulatius said:

I just realized they published results today, although they were pre- announced already. I agree they look very solid , but it’s an unloved sector (FTTH). They have done quite a few infrastructure projects that seem to be working out well.

 https://investors.unidata.it/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/151511_oneinfo.pdf

 

Solid results, especially FCF, but Unidata’s growth has slowed down:

https://investors.unidata.it/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Il-Consiglio-di-Amministrazione-ha-approvato-il-Resoconto-intermedio-di-gestione-del-Gruppo-Unidata-al-31-marzo-2025.pdf

 

They have been involved more and more in infrastructure projects that can lead to more lumpy numbers.

 

[Spooky]

5 hours ago, RichardGibbons said:

 

Ah, okay, in that case, let me help you with that:

 

Edit: Darn just realized that this isn't a political thread, so deleted my content.

 

DM me.

[Spekulatius]

On 4/10/2025 at 3:44 PM, changegonnacome said:

 

If you level the MSRP up to a non-subsidized level.......and let products compete on quality, reliability, features, technology alone I dont have a problem with it......the Chinese will scare the Europeans into doing something good and vice versa......now would I let Chinese manufactures grow to be 30% of every car sold in Europe....no I wouldn't........at the moment its like 2.5%.....you shouldnt remove creative destruction from an industry.....if you do everything ends up like the DMV.

Belated answer,  it I think the Europeans want to do what the Chinese did.

1) force local investment and encourage joint ventures with Chinese auto makers

2) those joint ventures automatically lead to tech transfer, possibly enabled by contract real language too

 

This is basically an acknowledgement that the European auto makers are not competitive in EV and an attempt to change it.

 

The alternative is to seal of the EU borders from Chinese EV it when exporting cars world wide in part of your business model, how is that going to work? I think there is a risk that this doesn’t work out, but is there really and alternative?

 

I think we will find ourself in America with an uncompetitive auto industry if we continue on the current path. The chicken tax on trucks brought us the $100k Dodge Ram and F350 etc. Consumers pay for it dearly.

[changegonnacome]

2 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

The alternative is to seal of the EU borders from Chinese EV it when exporting cars world wide in part of your business model, how is that going to work? I think there is a risk that this doesn’t work out, but is there really and alternative?

 

I think we will find ourself in America with an uncompetitive auto industry if we continue on the current path. The chicken tax on trucks brought us the $100k Dodge Ram and F350 etc. Consumers pay for it dearly.

 

Exactly who are you protecting/hurting in these scenarios - shielding any industry from competitive forces turns it into an arm of the government with all the inherent issues that brings. The protected win, the consumer via choice/price loses and society writ large loses as resources, by definition, are now being misallocated.

 

You can have national security overlay on stuff and no doubt it's the right posture - but national security becomes the last refuge of the scoundrel industrialist looking to be shielded from competitive forces by scaring/buying the politicians/public.

 

It's a dangerous road the US has started down with Trump - beware the industrialist who cries unfair trades practises what you just might be listening to is a crybaby who fell two steps behind his competition and is looking for a Government bailout via tariffs/subsidies. That pandora's box is now open in the US and given campaign finance rules here via Citizens United it could be deeply corrosive to what has made America great over time.

 

Edited May 16, 2025 by changegonnacome

[james22]

The Tech Industry Is Huge—and Europe’s Share of It Is Very Small

 

A risk-averse business culture and complex regulations have stifled innovation on the continent, weighing on its future

 

https://archive.ph/lbtkr