Is Europe becoming uninvestable?

[Dalal.Holdings]

Europe has been living in La La land because they had their defense covered by the U.S. and cheap energy from Russia — both of which supported a cushy lifestyle and little ambition and little worries. On top of all that, you’ve had people who believe GDP growth is bad successfully lobbying policy in some places and the European Commission strangling the continent with insane regulatory framework…then add all the separate interests from the different countries (Nordics don’t trust France when it comes to militarizing because they think it is a ploy to benefit French companies, etc.)…

 

All of these things are structurally very bad for the Continent and it needs to wake up. There needs to be bold reform: decide if the European Commission is truly the way to go (and so the states give up their own sovereignty) or whether you go back to individual sovereign states working toward common interests but also doing things their own way…

 

The European Commission’s regs like AI Act and GDPR need to be either drastically gutted or eliminated entirely. The European Commission’s regulators who suffer with “Man with Hammer syndrome” need to be fired. There needs to be drastic reform

[mranski]

Universal Health Care has to be a huge cost/drag in the EU. But it is probably seen as a positive of living in the EU by your average citizen. 

[RichardGibbons]

5 minutes ago, mranski said:

Universal Health Care has to be a huge cost/drag in the EU. But it is probably seen as a positive of living in the EU by your average citizen. 

 

I'm curious why you say this.

 

Typically, universal healthcare results in lower healthcare costs than to the USA.  And, knowing that your family won't die because of lack of healthcare coverage during your business' startup phase would surely remove one barrier to potential entrepreneurs.

[mranski]

It is still a major cost versus many countries other than the US that don’t have universal health care. I agree with you on the benefits, but it doesn’t seem to be helping entrepreneurship and gdp growth. 

[John Hjorth]

1 hour ago, mranski said:

Universal Health Care has to be a huge cost/drag in the EU. But it is probably seen as a positive of living in the EU by your average citizen. 

 

1 hour ago, RichardGibbons said:

 

I'm curious why you say this.

 

Typically, universal healthcare results in lower healthcare costs than to the USA.  And, knowing that your family won't die because of lack of healthcare coverage during your business' startup phase would surely remove one barrier to potential entrepreneurs.

 

3 minutes ago, mranski said:

It is still a major cost versus many countries other than the US that don’t have universal health care. I agree with you on the benefits, but it doesn’t seem to be helping entrepreneurship and gdp growth. 

 

Like Richard [ @RichardGibbons ], I'm curious too, @mranski,

 

What is it that you're saying about universal heathcare above, and compared to what? - I'm not sure I understand it.

[John Hjorth]

21 hours ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

Europe has been living in La La land because they had their defense covered by the U.S. and cheap energy from Russia — both of which supported a cushy lifestyle and little ambition and little worries. ...

 

Here you go, attached. If what you see in those stats for you is 'living in La La Land', then so be it.

 

The energy transition in Europe away from oil and gas started a long time before the Ukrainian-Russian war.

Danish Energy Agency - Energy in Denmark 2022 - English - 20241103.pdf Danish Energy Agency - Energistatistik 2023 - Danish - 20241103.pdf

[Spekulatius]

Interesting to look at power prices though, which have given back most of the astronomical increases that occurred in 2022:

https://ember-energy.org/data/european-electricity-prices-and-costs/
 

I think wholesale prices are roughly double what they are in the US.

[John Hjorth]

23 hours ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

Europe has been living in La La land because they had their defense covered by the U.S. and cheap energy from Russia — both of which supported a cushy lifestyle and little ambition and little worries.  ...

 

@Dalal.Holdings,

 

Second quote of what you wrote here for my commenting, without the intent to become too political.

 

Yes, the missing / lacking contributions to the common defence within NATO according to agreements within NATO in certain individual Western state budgets for now many years for several Western European states is a fact. And that fact is a disgrace and simply put so embarrasing for those Western European states. On that, the war in Ukraine has been a wake up call some places.

 

The Danish Navy Officer Anders Puck Nielsen calls this concept of milking of state defence budgets over time by politicians in power 'the collection of the peace dividend'. It has come at a price, payable and due, now.

[Luke]

https://www.politico.eu/article/mario-draghi-report-says-eu-must-spend-twice-as-much-after-wwii/

 

Europe must invest twice as much as it did rebuilding after World War II, allow more tech and telecoms companies to merge and take drastic measures on defense spending, Mario Draghi said.

 

Europe needed to invest an additional €800 billion a year to drag itself out of a trough of low productivity and feeble growth that's pushing it behind the United States and China in the international pecking order. He called it an "existential challenge."

 

At the heart of Draghi's report is a demand for a massive private and public investment, the like of which has not been seen in Europe since the 1960s and 1970s. It would add up approximately to an additional €800 billion per year.

 

"The Chinese now could probably export [high-speed] trains to Europe," Draghi said, signaling how far and fast Europe was falling behind.

 

The EU will not be able to secure enough copper, lithium and other raw materials if it does not emulate China's powerful mining-to-shipping vertical integration, Draghi implied in his recommendations on finding the metals needed for the digital and energy transitions: "Europe needs coordinated strategy covering the entire value chain, from raw materials to final products."

 

EU should focus funding on developing a limited number of “world-class innovation hubs” focused on advanced therapies based on genes, cells or tissue engineering.

[John Hjorth]

@Luke,

 

Now please tell us who is Giovanna Faggionata ,-also, in your personal growing line of posts, - over and over again - where you're quoting somebody here on CoBF, that makes you seem to be without skeptisism and critism towards sources, quoted without even just a one-liner from you personally to shed some light on your own stance.

[Dalal.Holdings]

Drahi:

Quote

"If Europe cannot become more productive, we will be forced to choose. We will not be able to become, at once, a leader in new technologies, a beacon of climate responsibility and an independent player on the world stage. We will not be able to finance our social model. We will have to scale back some, if not all, of our ambitions."

 

Quote

Draghi is pushing for the EU to issue new common debt to fund its industrial and defense needs, something that is opposed by several governments, and which already seemed to put him at odds with von der Leyen when the pair appeared at a press conference in Brussels to launch the report. He admitted the topic was "very sensitive."

 

You need Euro bonds for this to become a reality. The problem is that some states view this as a bailout of others which goes to show you that the “Union” in European Union is very weak.

[Luke]

21 minutes ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

Drahi:

 

 

You need Euro bonds for this to become a reality. The problem is that some states view this as a bailout of others which goes to show you that the “Union” in European Union is very weak.

Yep, the Union is weak and rightfully so. It was a huge mistake to give up the control of countries currencies to the ECB while the member states all have different goals, development and standards of living. You either abolish individual member states and have a United States of Europe with some drastic reevaluation of assets and wages for one time or you cancel the EU and similarly strong member states agree on treaties for freedom of movement, easier customs etc. The maastricht treaty forbids certain debt levels while, as draghi said, we need to go into debt to keep up. So I see this only play out in one way: Europe falls further behind next to China and the US and the falling living standards will move voters to EU-critics which leave the union in the end. Steve Keen (economics-professor) voted for the brexit when he lived there because of these exact problems but he regrets it because the eu has to fall altogether and not only UK leaving the EU while the rest stays. Once you leave the European union you have full control over your currency and can act way more strategic with public investments, nurturing tech zones etc just like China and the US do. Right now you only have stagnation and political turmoil whose fault it was that the situation is so bad. The political right uses this turmoil very well and they also have the correct position on the state of the Union in my opinion. 

 

"Keen was in favour of the UK leaving the European Union, stating mainstream economists were over-certain and exaggerating the likely effects following the country's withdrawal. Keen regards the open-borders free-movement policy of the EU as precipitate and unsustainable in the absence of a common fiscal policy; all the more so, given how migrants impose burdens on public services in destination countries also experiencing austerity. He also states the Euro is destined to fail, not least because of the way it penalises recession-hit countries unable to pursue expansive fiscal policy, and indeed considers the whole EU project as a failed one destined for collapse." 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Keen

[Luke]

This is what Steve Keens means with "the eu is destined for collapse" 

 

 

Once there is more strategic autonomy, EU investments can also look a lot better depending on the local government. 

 

But its also important to say that key is strategic investments via debt, there are many right wingers that don't want that so its not a straightforward political choice. 

Edited Sunday at 05:10 PM by Luke

[John Hjorth]

1 hour ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

Drahi:

You need Euro bonds for this to become a reality. The problem is that some states view this as a bailout of others which goes to show you that the “Union” in European Union is very weak.

 

@Dalal.Holdings, 

 

Why do you continue to refer to this Italian, socalist politician about what Europe urgently need to act on? The Danish defence budget is in the Danish state budget, to be aproved by the Danish parliament, called 'Folketinget'. 'Up yours, Draghi!'

[Dalal.Holdings]

3 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

 

@Dalal.Holdings, 

 

Why do you continue to refer to this Italian, socalist politician about what Europe urgently need to act on? The Danish defence budget is in the Danish state budget, to be aproved by the Danish parliament, called 'Folketinget'. 'Up yours, Draghi!'

 

Denmark is but one country in the EU. It alone is not really relevant to the issues the continent faces. Also, Denmark wisely chose not to adopt the Euro and has its own currency. Perhaps more EU members should consider similar path…