Political Posts

[cubsfan]

5 minutes ago, LC said:

I mean jesus, what an opportunity for the US. 

 

Get other people to fight out battles - weaken Russia. Indirectly weaken China. Have Europe eating out of our hand. Have Ukraine as a pseudo US state which will buy munitions, allow US bases, etc. etc. Another NATO partner for US to control. Also help solve the migrant crisis from the ME and Africa. Get those ex-migrants to become EU/US citizens. Further wrest control of the ME and Africa away from China. 

 

It's a damn gold mine of a situation if Trumpf had half a brain. And what do we lose? Nothing! We sell a crapton of US-made munitions, we get real-world battlefield info, we give our $50 trillion army something to do and keep them battle-hardened or at least battle-informed. I mean it's got potential positives flowing out every orifice and meanwhile the best we get is JD Vance crying like a little girl. 

 

 

You missed the big picture.

 

Europe handles Russia on the land and owns their own defense with "some" assistance from the USA.

 

The USA will handle the oceans - with a major focus on China.

 

It's called burden sharing.

[cubsfan]

4 minutes ago, lnofeisone said:

I live in Washington, DC. I'm not a Washington insider by any stretch. But don't change the subject. You claimed that these workers are already on the payroll. Do you have evidence of this, or would you like to walk back your statement? It's really that simple. 

 

No need to walk back anything. You are entitled to your own opinion and are in no way must you agree with mine. Stop splitting hairs already.

[lnofeisone]

Just now, cubsfan said:

 

No need to walk back anything. You are entitled to your own opinion and are in no way must you agree with mine. Stop splitting hairs already.

Ok, understood. You are just spitballing your intuition that may or may not be grounded in any sense of reality.

[cubsfan]

10 minutes ago, LC said:

I mean jesus, what an opportunity for the US. 

 

Get other people to fight out battles - weaken Russia. Indirectly weaken China. Have Europe eating out of our hand. Have Ukraine as a pseudo US state which will buy munitions, allow US bases, etc. etc. Another NATO partner for US to control. Also help solve the migrant crisis from the ME and Africa. Get those ex-migrants to become EU/US citizens. Further wrest control of the ME and Africa away from China. 

 

It's a damn gold mine of a situation if Trumpf had half a brain. And what do we lose? Nothing! We sell a crapton of US-made munitions, we get real-world battlefield info, we give our $50 trillion army something to do and keep them battle-hardened or at least battle-informed. I mean it's got potential positives flowing out every orifice and meanwhile the best we get is JD Vance crying like a little girl. 

 

You left out the best part -  and millions of soldiers die - mostly Ukrainian & Europeans.

 

Let the war mongers celebrate.

[cubsfan]

2 minutes ago, lnofeisone said:

Ok, understood. You are just spitballing your intuition that may or may not be grounded in any sense of reality.

 

I'm taking just your lead. I'm offering my opinion, which you do not like.

[Sweet]

Wild exchange in front of the press.  Zelenskyy, rightly, couldn't sit there and listen to the bullshit.  'Not thankful' - bullshit.  '$350 bn in aid' - bullshit.  'Propaganda tour' - bullshit, and really quite a shameful comment.

 

For all the bullshit though, this is Europe's failing.  Defence spending should have been higher in European countries many years ago.  European defence was subsidised by American taxpayers all while Europeans looked down their nose at the Americans, ridiculing their culture, their lack of socialised health care... yada yada... on and on.  What a woeful bunch of politicians we have had leading us.

 

The party is over for Europe, I don't think Trump was an inevitably figure, but it was inevitable that the lack of defence spending would have consequences.  The only correct response from Europe is a massive increase in defence spending and support for Ukraine now.  Not next week.  Now.  Emergency summit tomorrow.  1 trillion debt raise for Ukraine defence... now.

 

And, there is a hard truth for Zelenskyy too, he isn't going to push the Russians out.  Negotiate he must, but he needs to be clever too.

 

The loser in the long term is probably America.  Congrats, you traded Europe, with 600 million people and a huge purchasing power and industrialised base for Russia.  Yeh the Europeans looked down their nose, wrongly, but this Putin guy, he hates America to his very core.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2025 by Sweet

[Saluki]

11 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

After all - the Biden crime family made a career out of selling out their country for money.

 

You mean like when the Biden's launched their Memecoin right before he took office, and where an indicted Chinese national bought $75 million of it, and the charges were dropped? You mean like where Biden bought a hotel in DC and people seeking his favor booked rooms there whenever they came to lobby? Or when they landed his plane in Scotland so that security personnel had to stay at his hotel at taxpayer expense? Or when China, which doesn't seem too concerned about intellectual property, fast tracked a bunch of copyrights for his daughters fashion brands? Or like how I now see ads, right now, with Biden's son asking me to invest in gold? Or when Biden appointed a guy who is smokes pot, is addicted to ketamine, gives nazi salutes and runs around stage screaming and wielding a chainsaw, as the guy in charge of overhauling the government. You know, when Biden's friend cancelled a contract that his company lost to a competitor, and issued it to his own company? Or when he demanded, and was given access to the most sensitive payment system in the country and at the same time is developing a payment system of his own?  Oh wait that was trump? 

 

Tell me again about how much Hunter Biden's paintings sell for 

[cubsfan]

9 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Wild exchange in front of the press.  Zelenskyy, rightly, couldn't sit there and listen to the bullshit.  '$350 bn in aid' - bullshit.  'Propaganda tour' - bullshit, and really quite a shameful comment.

 

For all the bullshit though, this is Europe's failing.  Defence spending should have been higher in European countries many years ago.  European defence was subsidised by American taxpayers all while Europeans looked down their nose at the Americans, ridiculing their culture, their lack of socialised health care... yada yada... on and on.  What a woeful bunch of politicians we have had leading us.

 

The party is over for Europe, I don't think Trump was an inevitably figure, but it was inevitable that the lack of defence spending had to come to an end.  The only correct response from Europe is a massive increase in defence spending and support for Ukraine right now.

 

And, there is a hard truth for Zelenskyy too, he isn't going to push the Russians out.  Negotiate he must, but he needs to be clever too.

 

The loser in the long term is probably America.  Congrats, you traded Europe, with 750 million people and a huge purchasing power and industrialised base for Russia.  Yeh the Europeans looked down their nose, wrongly, but this Putin guy, hates America to his very core.

 

 

Yeah, thank you for being one of the few to speak the ugly truth about Europe for once.

 

Mending fences will not be easy.

Edited February 28, 2025 by cubsfan

[Fly]

Imagine you are some other US allied country right now. Not exactly a warm and cozy feeling...

[cubsfan]

1 minute ago, Saluki said:

 

You mean like when the Biden's launched their Memecoin right before he took office, and where an indicted Chinese national bought $75 million of it, and the charges were dropped? You mean like where Biden bought a hotel in DC and people seeking his favor booked rooms there whenever they came to lobby? Or when they landed his plane in Scotland so that security personnel had to stay at his hotel at taxpayer expense? Or when China, which doesn't seem too concerned about intellectual property, fast tracked a bunch of copyrights for his daughters fashion brands? Or like how I now see ads, right now, with Biden's son asking me to invest in gold? Or when Biden appointed a guy who is smokes pot, is addicted to ketamine, gives nazi salutes and runs around stage screaming and wielding a chainsaw, as the guy in charge of overhauling the government. You know, when Biden's friend cancelled a contract that his company lost to a competitor, and issued it to his own company? Or when he demanded, and was given access to the most sensitive payment system in the country and at the same time is developing a payment system of his own?  Oh wait that was trump? 

 

Tell me again about how much Hunter Biden's paintings sell for 

 

Pretty much nailed it.  I don't Hunter's paintings are worth much these days, but he sure knows how to sell daddy's influence for shit art.

[cubsfan]

3 minutes ago, Fly said:

Imagine you are some other US allied country right now. Not exactly a warm and cozy feeling...

 

The limits were very clear during the Trump campaign.

 

But the allies have a vote - they can continue the killing as long as they like.

Their attitude may change when Ukraine runs out of men.

[tnathan]

8 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Wild exchange in front of the press.  Zelenskyy, rightly, couldn't sit there and listen to the bullshit.  'Not thankful' - bullshit.  '$350 bn in aid' - bullshit.  'Propaganda tour' - bullshit, and really quite a shameful comment.

 

For all the bullshit though, this is Europe's failing.  Defence spending should have been higher in European countries many years ago.  European defence was subsidised by American taxpayers all while Europeans looked down their nose at the Americans, ridiculing their culture, their lack of socialised health care... yada yada... on and on.  What a woeful bunch of politicians we have had leading us.

 

The party is over for Europe, I don't think Trump was an inevitably figure, but it was inevitable that the lack of defence spending would have consequences.  The only correct response from Europe is a massive increase in defence spending and support for Ukraine now.  Not next week.  Now.  Emergency summit tomorrow.  1 trillion debt raise for Ukraine defence... now.

 

And, there is a hard truth for Zelenskyy too, he isn't going to push the Russians out.  Negotiate he must, but he needs to be clever too.

 

The loser in the long term is probably America.  Congrats, you traded Europe, with 750 million people and a huge purchasing power and industrialised base for Russia.  Yeh the Europeans looked down their nose, wrongly, but this Putin guy, he hates America to his very core.

 

 

+ 1 -- we can hold two truths in our head at once. Europe messed up by being so behind on military readiness, but Putin is bad news and the fact that Trump has allied himself with Russia is legitimately one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. Long term loser is the United States. If you look at most of the early Trump policies its getting a very short term victory at risk of long term ruin. It's the mark of am 80 IQ guy who thinks he's a 150 IQ guy.

[John Hjorth]

Mike [ @cubsfan ],

 

I think it was 1996 I did receive the monthly news script from The Association of Danish CPAs.

 

A Danish CPA had got into a quarrel with a client, that was not related to fees, and naturally in that situation had seeked greener grass elsewhere, thereby by in writing terminating the business relation with said CPA.

 

Next thing that happened, was that the CPA soured dearly, got really angry, and did send a letter to the former client, a la : 'Certainly OK, because I don't want to have clients like you.' [<- The last part I'm 100% sure of by memory, literally, so derogatory and condesending, but no real foul language.]

 

While receiving that letter from the CPA, the former client went totally ballistic [, in stead of just moving on], and filed a claim at the body for professional misconduct among Danish CPAs [, which has by law competence to issue fines to members going rough and straying]. At that time, the existing regulation had the max limit for fines set to DKK 300,000.

 

The body issued a personal fine to the CPA of DKK 300,000 [non-tax deductible], example setting.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

If that claim body should have todays performance of the three men arguing publicly in the White House in presence of the Press brought in for assessment, my personal guess would be the following :

 

Mr. Trump : fine USD 30 million,

Mr. Zelenskyj : fine USD 20 million, &

Mr. Vance : fine USD 2 million [<- Disclosure : I actually like him, and his approach to things].

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

So : No bonus to any of these gents for performance here today, simply because this is in no way about them selves.

 

Bad form and lack of etikette all over!

Edited February 28, 2025 by John Hjorth

[Paarslaars]

43 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Actually, that's a wonderful idea. Why hasn't Europe done it?

Because they will die for their country or Allah but not for the country they moved to.

[cubsfan]

Just now, tnathan said:

+ 1 -- we can hold two truths in our head at once. Europe messed up by being so behind on military readiness, but Putin is bad news and the fact that Trump has allied himself with Russia is legitimately one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. Long term loser is the United States. If you look at most of the early Trump policies its getting a very short term victory at risk of long term ruin. It's the mark of am 80 IQ guy who thinks he's a 150 IQ guy.

 

So are you saying that Europe should continue the war or settle the war?

Serious question.

[Castanza]

What a shitshow of an interview. Trump and JD were disrespectful as Hell. Zelensky is a desperate man right now. I don't love the guy but he is the guy for the job now. Say what you want about election suspension...Churchill suspended elections in England for how many year? Nobody would call him a poor leader. Trump and Vance should have called and end to the meeting and discussed it behind closed doors. 

 

Republicans are trying to solve the war based on why it stated. Too late! the game is already in motion. Time to sack up and play the game. The Democrats were pussying footing around and wasting aid by holding back at key moments or not giving Ukraine what they needed when it counted (trying to save face).Biden allowed this shit to fester and linger for years. 

 

Like WWII this isn't ending until US troop (boots on the ground or USAF) involvement. I said it from the beginning and I'm saying it now. Arguing about why the war started and how it could have been avoided is a different argument than what should be done moving forward. <---- this is leading to a lot of disagreement in this topic and it's silly.

 

Trump may have been the right guy in 2016 before all this stuff started, but I don't think his negotiating tactics work once the game is in motion. Exactly why I did not vote for him. 

[tnathan]

1 minute ago, cubsfan said:

 

So are you saying that Europe should continue the war or settle the war?

Serious question.

If Europe seriously thinks that Putin has no further expansionist urges, then settle the war. But it's hard not to believe that if he is allowed to take large portions of Ukraine that he will simply stop here. I don't know the answer (and you don't either) -- I'm sure the intelligence communities have a good sense. If they think there's a bigger long term threat and the precedent being set in Ukraine creates a scenario where expansionist leaders feel they have a right to expand, you have to fight the war aggressively. It's a really weird (almost pro German WWII) argument to automatically say the world should settle and let Russia have what they want. Very shortsighted.

 

[Blake Hampton]

Watching this truly made me want to cry.
 

How can you have nothing but sympathy for Zelensky? He and his country have been through nothing but hell over the last three years—rape, torture, death, destruction—all at the hands of Vladimir Putin, with whom we're now friends with? Trump is, by far, the most arrogant person I've ever seen. He hasn't witnessed even a fraction of what Zelensky has experienced in a day, yet he still has the audacity to treat him like some random fool.

Shameful.

[John Hjorth]

29 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Don't forget @Luke to the resistance - Trump is a Russian spy and asset, just like Tulsi Gabbard.

 

Oh, Mike [ @cubsfan ],

 

Please give us a break with this line of posting here.

[Malmqky]

3 minutes ago, tnathan said:

If Europe seriously thinks that Putin has no further expansionist urges, then settle the war. But it's hard not to believe that if he is allowed to take large portions of Ukraine that he will simply stop here. I don't know the answer (and you don't either) -- I'm sure the intelligence communities have a good sense. If they think there's a bigger long term threat and the precedent being set in Ukraine creates a scenario where expansionist leaders feel they have a right to expand, you have to fight the war aggressively. It's a really weird (almost pro German WWII) argument to automatically say the world should settle and let Russia have what they want. Very shortsighted.

 

 

Putin is a very trustworthy individual

 

Surely we can trust him to stop with what he got. He did after 2014 right?

 

[Paarslaars]

I think it's a good thing Trump is forcing Europe to up its defense spending, we have piggy backed on the safety of the US military for too long.

We don't need the US to beat Russia, in fact, without the US putting restrictions on how the war is fought (like not attacking russian oil refineries), we can cripple Putin much faster.

 

That said, his behavior towards Zelensky is disgraceful... I'm all for the tough negotiations but this was just childisch and disrespectul from the Americans. JD Vance was making arguments like a child... Most of europe sees all of this as a temporary phase though, just wait out trump, 4 years at most.

 

Edited February 28, 2025 by Paarslaars

[Ulti]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2025-02-19/trump-s-insistence-ukraine-has-rare-earth-elements-is-wrong

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russia/ukraine-must-guarantee-its-own-security

https://warontherocks.com/2025/02/armed-neutrality-for-ukraine-is-natos-least-poor-option/
 

again ….  (Repeat post)This is a dog and pony show..

There is no rare earth elements to exploit…and This is the only way….

 

“Of proposed alternatives, only armed neutrality avoids these consequences while offering the most promising chance for long-term peace. Ukraine’s armed neutrality would, however, come with responsibilities for NATO members, especially in Europe, to help Kyiv build its arsenal and fortify the continent’s own defenses.”

 

its up to the EU to decide how much they are going to help…

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/rebirth-russian-spycraft

 

the Russians ,just like the Chinese use extensive and deadly espionage against us and other democratic countries…

 

There is no good or evil? 

Just ask this guy

https://apnews.com/article/russia-navalny-death-kremlin-critics-putin-169d691c7ca10666ac63e60eeb6efdfd

I think  he knew a shit ton more about Putin than the people on this board 

[cubsfan]

1 minute ago, John Hjorth said:

 

Bad form and lack of etikette all over!

 

@John Hjorth  Why in the world would you be overly concerned about etiquette and manners when thousands of lives are at stake?    That's incredible. This is not some tea party.

 

I can only tell you this: I've negotiated hundreds of contracts in my career. Things get ugly. Things get tense. People yell at each other - accuse each other. Lose their cool. It happens over and over.

They walk on deals. The bigger the deal, the longer it takes.

 

My general rule: The higher the stakes and the more important the outcome - the LONGER and more difficult the negotiation will be. Negotiations will blow up, people will reassess, and if there is a deal to be made - they will try again. Time is ALWAYS on your side, as it gives the parties a chance to cool down and reassess.

 

There is NO negotiation as high stakes as this one, because the alternative is WAR where thousands die and a country is lost forever.

 

I'm genuinely shocked that you think this is like a polite little tea party. 
There is far too much at stake for this to be easy - otherwise it would have already happened.

 

You are totally unrealistic.

 

 

[tnathan]

1 minute ago, Malmqky said:

 

Putin is a very trustworthy individual

 

Surely we can trust him to stop with what he got. He did after 2014 right?

 

+1 exactly. Which is why the republicans are morons

[Paarslaars]

2 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

@John Hjorth  Why in the world would you be overly concerned about etiquette and manners when thousands of lives are at stake?    That's incredible. This is not some tea party.

 

I can only tell you this: I've negotiated hundreds of contracts in my career. Things get ugly. Things get tense. People yell at each other - accuse each other. Lose their cool. It happens over and over.

They walk on deals. The bigger the deal, the longer it takes.

 

My general rule: The higher the stakes and the more important the outcome - the LONGER and more difficult the negotiation will be. Negotiations will blow up, people will reassess, and if there is a deal to be made - they will try again. Time is ALWAYS on your side, as it gives the parties a chance to cool down and reassess.

 

There is NO negotiation as high stakes as this one, because the alternative is WAR where thousands die and a country is lost forever.

 

I'm genuinely shocked that you think this is like a polite little tea party. 
There is far too much at stake for this to be easy - otherwise it would have already happened.

 

You are totally unrealistic.

 

 

No way you did those negotiations in a large public setting or on TV.

That's the thing, it's all fine to play hard ball in private.

But being disrespectful in public... that causes permanent damage to relationships.