Political Posts

[Castanza]

1 hour ago, cubsfan said:

 

What kind of stupidity is this?

Who is defending what Ashli did?  Not me.

 

Does a defenseless unarmed woman deserve to be shot for climbing through a window?

 

Or is just perfectly ok to use "excessive force" to set an example for all the protestors?

 

Talk about biased and ridiculous logic.

It wasn’t “just a window”…it was a room that had no further retreat for members of Congress and she was part of a mob. 
 

If someone breaks into my house at night through “just a window” I am going tog to shoot them. It’s no different…the cops swore an oath to protect members of congress. That’s what they did…

[Marco Van Basten]

1 hour ago, dwy000 said:

He didnt get into a fight with police.  He had a legal gun on him (put away, never out) and was filming.  You want people to sit home and obey.  

You keep missing my point.  I am not arguing whether he deserved to be shot or not.  (From my limited knowledge, he clearly did not.)  My point is what you can do to minimize harm to oneself.  Don't bring a gun to a protest, no good will come out of it.  The goal in life is to learn from other people's mistakes so you don't repeat them.  If I had a gun permit, I would not go to a presidential rally with it, that's just common sense.  

[John D. Rockefeller]

7 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

You keep missing my point.  I am not arguing whether he deserved to be shot or not.  (From my limited knowledge, he clearly did not.)  My point is what you can do to minimize harm to oneself.  Don't bring a gun to a protest, no good will come out of it.  The goal in life is to learn from other people's mistakes so you don't repeat them.  If I had a gun permit, I would not go to a presidential rally with it, that's just common sense.  

But this is a different form of discussion. Not political anymore, more of a "How to survive under a fascist regime" guide.

Of course "Don't flaunt you're a jew" was sound advice in a specific time and place, but just the fact you have to give this advice tells a special kind of story.

Edited January 25 by John D. Rockefeller
Used wrong word

[Gregmal]

1 minute ago, Marco Van Basten said:

You keep missing my point.  I am not arguing whether he deserved to be shot or not.  (From my limited knowledge, he clearly did not.)  My point is what you can do to minimize harm to oneself.  Don't bring a gun to a protest, no good will come out of it.  The goal in life is to learn from other people's mistakes so you don't repeat them.  If I had a gun permit, I would not go to a presidential rally with it, that's just common sense.  

He’s shot lmfao. Got in his daily dose of murmur “cult” 8x and now can’t clearly see that there is a whole hella lot in between “go protest” in a potentially dangerous situation, or sit home and obey the government. I for instance, went to the beach yesterday. Some of these guys just plain and simple can’t differentiate or see that there’s other choices beyond A or B.

 

Whats unfortunate is that this dudes father even said he recently started getting riled up politically by this and frequently began seeking out these protests…not sure what else there is to do in that crappy city, but pretty sure “go protest” wasn’t the only option. 

[cubsfan]

2 minutes ago, lnofeisone said:

She was part of a mob and trespassing. So she is already committing a crime. She also tried charging through the opening, committing another crime. And all of that before the police engaged her. 

 

Yeah of course. 

 

She was trespassing and unarmed - so she deserved to be shot - just like the rest of them according to you. You even admitted she was unarmed.

 

You are the perfect fascist:  Use violence as necessary tools for social change and cleansing.

 

 

[cubsfan]

48 minutes ago, TwoCitiesCapital said:

 

They all got pardoned - because that's what fascists do. They reward loyalty and punish disloyalty. Has nothing to do with crime/laws/circumstances/actual threat

 

Yes - that is EXACTLY what Joe Biden did. Pardon all the law breakers including every member of his family.  That is how fascism works.

[Marco Van Basten]

4 minutes ago, John D. Rockefeller said:

But this is a different form of discussion. Not political anymore, more of a "How to survive under a fascist regime" guide.

Of course "Don't brandish you're a jew" was sound advice in a specific time and place, but just the fact you have to give this advice tells a special kind of story.

Actually, it has always been the advice to anyone: don't argue with police and don't fight police, and obey their instructions.  At least that's why I remember ACLU telling anyone who'd listen thirty years ago.  

[DooDiligence]

4 minutes ago, John D. Rockefeller said:

But this is a different form of discussion. Not political anymore, more of a "How to survive under a fascist regime" guide.

Of course "Don't brandish you're a jew" was sound advice in a specific time and place, but just the fact you have to give this advice tells a special kind of story.

 

but it's OK to brandish a weapon if you're supporting the current administration in an attempt to overthrow election results, or trying to intimidate officials at a state capitol. I am confident that we will see armed individuals with masks at polling places during the mid-terms. More in blue states than anywhere else. The nazi sympathizers will bleat their support here, there and everywhere. It's taking longer than I predicted but we're getting there.

[cubsfan]

10 minutes ago, Castanza said:

It wasn’t “just a window”…it was a room that had no further retreat for members of Congress and she was part of a mob. 
 

If someone breaks into my house at night through “just a window” I am going tog to shoot them. It’s no different…the cops swore an oath to protect members of congress. That’s what they did…

 

Oh I see - perfectly OK to shot an unarmed protester who is trespassing - but NOT ok to shoot an armed protester who is breaking the law.

 

Got it - thank you.

[lnofeisone]

2 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Yeah of course. 

 

She was trespassing and unarmed - so she deserved to be shot - just like the rest of them according to you. You even admitted she was unarmed.

 

You are the perfect fascist:  Use violence as necessary tools for social change and cleansing.

 

 

You keep missing the point. She is trespassing and was posing a danger. The LEO that shot her had no way of knowing if she had weapons. She charged at him. She got shot. It's no different than if someone is breaking into my house. I don't care if they are armed or not; they will absolutely get resistance from me. 

 

I have 0 issues with the protestors who were outside on Jan 6th. They were exercising their right. Just like Alex was. If protestors in MN were breaking into ICE detention center, I'd have 0 issues with increased force usage. This shooting of Alex was unjustified and gross. It uniquely fits your definition of using violence as a necessary tool for social change and cleansing. 

 

[lnofeisone]

4 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Yes - that is EXACTLY what Joe Biden did. Pardon all the law breakers including every member of his family.  That is how fascism works.

Yes, and Biden's pardons were wrong and I wish there was a way to rescind it. Just like Jan 6th pardons were wrong and I wish there was a way to rescind those. Easy. 

[lnofeisone]

5 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Actually, it has always been the advice to anyone: don't argue with police and don't fight police, and obey their instructions.  At least that's why I remember ACLU telling anyone who'd listen thirty years ago.  

Alex didn't argue with the police. He even raised his hands before they charged him and try to subdue him. He was on all 4s when he was shot. He was also disarmed by this point. There is no physics in this universe that could demonstrate that he was any credible threat to these agents. 

[Pauly]

1 minute ago, lnofeisone said:

You keep missing the point. She is trespassing and was posing a danger. The LEO that shot her had no way of knowing if she had weapons. She charged at him. She got shot. It's no different than if someone is breaking into my house. I don't care if they are armed or not; they will absolutely get resistance from me. 

 

I have 0 issues with the protestors who were outside on Jan 6th. They were exercising their right. Just like Alex was. If protestors in MN were breaking into ICE detention center, I'd have 0 issues with increased force usage. This shooting of Alex was unjustified and gross. It uniquely fits your definition of using violence as a necessary tool for social change and cleansing. 

 

 

Exactly right. 

 

Also, imagine replacing the Capitol Police with these poorly trained, trigger happy ICE agents on Jan 6. How many protestors would have died that day. Dozens? Hundreds? Certainly more than one. 

 

[cubsfan]

6 minutes ago, lnofeisone said:

You keep missing the point. She is trespassing and was posing a danger. The LEO that shot her had no way of knowing if she had weapons. She charged at him. She got shot. It's no different than if someone is breaking into my house. I don't care if they are armed or not; they will absolutely get resistance from me. 

 

Now we are getting some place.

 

Ashli was shot because they had no way of knowing she was armed.

 

Alex Pretti was shot because he was ARMED and resisting and breaking the law.

 

But it's ok to shoot Ashli, but not Alex.

 

Got it. You did flunk logic class. 

Edited January 25 by cubsfan

[DooDiligence]

trump in a nutshell

 

 

FWIW, I've read Bonfire of the Vanities twice and have it cued up for a third read now.

Unlike the pedo in chief, I'm not a pathological liar.

 

.

Edited January 25 by DooDiligence

[lnofeisone]

1 minute ago, cubsfan said:

 

Now we are getting some place.

 

Ashli was shot because they had no way of know she was armed.

 

Alex Pretti was shot because he was ARMED and resisting and breaking the law.

 

But it's ok to shoot Ashli, but not Alex.

 

Got it. You did flunk logic class. 

LOLOLOL nice try. You are still getting an F. Ashley broke the law before she was engaged and eventually shot. Alex broke 0 laws before he was engaged and eventually shot. But if we go with your logic, either Ashli shooting was bad and so was Alex's. Or Alex's shooting was good and justified and so was Ashli's. You can't have both. 

 

Seriously, did you watch the 3 videos? That's the only answer I'd like from you so I can gauge what you are basing your opinions on. 

[Marco Van Basten]

5 minutes ago, lnofeisone said:

Alex didn't argue with the police. He even raised his hands before they charged him and try to subdue him. He was on all 4s when he was shot. He was also disarmed by this point. There is no physics in this universe that could demonstrate that he was any credible threat to these agents. 

Again, I am not saying that he deserved to be shot.  My point is that in life, your goal should be to minimize stupid mistakes.  Bringing a gun to an anti-police protest is profoundly stupid, and no good can possibly come out of it.  And we should learn from this unfortunate situation.  

[Gregmal]

I mean the second amendment stuff kinda hits a wall here no? If simply “carrying” presents valid grounds for someone shooting you, then is that really a right to carry? 
 

Similarly, if “Ashley broke the law” by trespassing, don’t we need to cut this “illegals aren’t criminals” because all they did was trespass, bullshit? 

Seems both sides are seeing ideology collapse on itself here. 

[lnofeisone]

Just now, Marco Van Basten said:

Again, I am not saying that he deserved to be shot.  My point is that in life, your goal should be to minimize stupid mistakes.  Bringing a gun to an anti-police protest is profoundly stupid, and no good can possibly come out of it.  And we should learn from this unfortunate situation.  

Fair. I think it's also fair to close that and focus on things that led to the shooting and the responsibility the agents should bear.

 

Assaulting a civilian who has his hands up with pepper spray? A tad excessive.

Unloading a can of pepper spray on him? Also excessive.

10-14 shots while he is on his arms and legs? Definitely excessive.

Clapping in celebration of the shooting? Gross. 

Searching body afterwards and asking "where is the gun?" You can describe it as you want. 

[DooDiligence]

2 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Again, I am not saying that he deserved to be shot.  My point is that in life, your goal should be to minimize stupid mistakes.  Bringing a gun to an anti-police protest is profoundly stupid, and no good can possibly come out of it.  And we should learn from this unfortunate situation.  

 

"Let the people in. Take the f'ing mags (metal detectors) away"

 

I'll take deranged lunatics for $1000 Ken

[lnofeisone]

1 minute ago, Gregmal said:

I mean the second amendment stuff kinda hits a wall here no? If simply “carrying” presents valid grounds for someone shooting you, then is that really a right to carry? 
 

Similarly, if “Ashley broke the law” by trespassing, don’t we need to cut this “illegals aren’t criminals” because all they did was trespass, bullshit? 

Seems both sides are seeing ideology collapse on itself here. 

My position is that illegals are in fact criminals and lawful, thoughtful, prudent ICE operations are fine. What happened here was a shooting of a US citizen. 

[Gregmal]

Just now, lnofeisone said:

My position is that illegals are in fact criminals and lawful, thoughtful, prudent ICE operations are fine. What happened here was a shooting of a US citizen. 

OK good, agree 100% on all the above. 

 

[cubsfan]

14 minutes ago, lnofeisone said:

LOLOLOL nice try. You are still getting an F. Ashley broke the law before she was engaged and eventually shot. Alex broke 0 laws before he was engaged and eventually shot. But if we go with your logic, either Ashli shooting was bad and so was Alex's. Or Alex's shooting was good and justified and so was Ashli's. You can't have both. 

 

No - Ashley was trespassing and crawled through a window unarmed. But the guy next to her had a crowbar - so she deserved to be shot. That is exactly what you said.

 

Alex interfered with law enforcement, did not comply with lawful commands, actively resisted - and got himself shot in the process. Furthermore Alex was exceedingly dangerous BECAUSE he was armed.

 

But in your circular logic world - the killing of Ashli was JUSTIFIED and the killing of Alex was NOT.

[lnofeisone]

3 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

No - Ashley was trespassing and crawled through a window unarmed. But the guy next to her had a crowbar - so she deserved to be shot. That is exactly what you said.

 

Alex interfered with law enforcement, did not comply with lawful commands, actively resisted - and got himself shot in the process. Furthermore Alex was exceedingly dangerous BECAUSE he was armed.

 

But in your circular logic world - the killing of Ashli was JUSTIFIED and the killing of Alex was NOT.

Did you watch the videos of Alex's execution? Yes or no. Very simple. 

[Spekulatius]

3 hours ago, Gregmal said:

Sure, but when you’ve been screaming “Nazi” at anyone and anything that you disagree with for the past decade plus, it desensitizes people to the rhetoric. Especially since past cries of “Nazi” have turned out to be completely fabricated nonsense.
 

And this doesn’t even touch on @fleshs point above; and that’s that the same folks screaming “Nazi” everywhere have become very aggressive in the embracing of antisemitism….

No doubt the desensitization is true. I do think we get on a slippery autocratic oath and are on the verge of major civil unrest which open up another can of worms if we get closer to martial law. It does 

I also scratch it my head why Homeland security uses Nazi like up imagery and messaging. If you know the Nazi slogan’s in German you see a write similarity. They even use the German capital spelling for some words. I would genuinely  like to know what they are trying to accomplish here other than boiling frogs…

 

There are always people oblivious on these changes until it is too late. Oh it won’t happen here! But, it’s not like the constitution will prevent this from happening unless citizens are alert to what is happening and acting and voting accordingly.

Edited January 25 by Spekulatius