Political Posts

[Spekulatius]

8 hours ago, dealraker said:

Covid evidently went straight to Jenny's kidneys; they are not functioning.  Ten weeks ago she was a muscular beautiful woman, today she does dialysis.  Her husband is having severe respiratory problems, he's on his back in the hospital.  I guess neither Jenny nor her husbands issues could be proven to be from Covid.

 

I also guess many would say the odds were that maybe they'd just as likely get these outcomes from the Covid vaccine itself.  And I don't know the stats from that.

 

But damn what an outcome.  It has shaken all of us around here, "so close to home" as we say.

 

My two bouts of Covid have been symptom free.  Angela and I haven't missed a vaccine yet and don't plan on it. 

My wife is dialysis nurse and has seen this first hand many times, People with multiple organ failure ending up with dialysis, mostly permanently. The virus can do a huge number with your body.

 

I personally am a big believer in Vaccines and think they are the closest to a free  lunch in medicine acht you can get. i always ask thy doctors or to give me all the shots he can give me. i just got Pneumococcal vaccine on my last visit. I will get Flu and Covid refresher shot later this month.

[LC]

10 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

You need to be more open minded.  I don't blame anyone for my woes except for myself (the fault my dear Brutus is not in our stars but in ourselves.)  I understand however that someone born in the USA who is not very highly skilled will see his wages eroded due to competition from unskilled immigrants and his housing costs increase for the same reason. I also think that vaccination is generally a good idea, albeit Covid vaccines for 5 year olds do not make sense to me.  Rather than behaving like a condescending know it all, perhaps take time to think if the other sides' arguments make sense?  Oh, and I have a PhD in a quantitative discipline, and an undergraduate degree with honors from an Ivy league school.

 

I'm all about being open minded to learn something new - not to indulge conspiracy theories.

The science is clear (vaccinations), the economic reality has been studied ad nauseum and is also clear (immigration), what else is there to say?

 

Vaccinations in particular are known science, not some economic theory where everyone has an opinion. Even if you reject the science () just practically it makes sense: How many five year olds have died from the COVID vaccine, versus COVID? 

 

IMO those not-very-highly-skilled Americans should aspire to be more like you with nice degrees, and more importantly, an educated and critical mind.

[Gregmal]

19 minutes ago, LC said:

How many five year olds have died from the COVID vaccine, versus COVID? 

There was very clear evidence that COVID did not affect children. There was no evidence suggesting a vaccine was necessary for them. Only the dishonest medical people were advocating for children getting Covid vaccines. I have multiple family members in high level medical positions; they vary in terms of their politics, but all agree on the subject of kids and Covid. 

[Marco Van Basten]

21 minutes ago, LC said:

 

I'm all about being open minded to learn something new - not to indulge conspiracy theories.

The science is clear (vaccinations), the economic reality has been studied ad nauseum and is also clear (immigration), what else is there to say?

 

Vaccinations in particular are known science, not some economic theory where everyone has an opinion. Even if you reject the science () just practically it makes sense: How many five year olds have died from the COVID vaccine, versus COVID? 

 

IMO those not-very-highly-skilled Americans should aspire to be more like you with nice degrees, and more importantly, an educated and critical mind.

The science was not clear, as a matter of fact in Europe Covid vaccines were advised against for under 18 year olds.   Some vaccines are a no brainer - polio, small pox, whooping cough et all, others (Covid for kids) not so clear.   People should aspire to have skills, but not everyone can get a nice degree or a PhD.  As for critical mind, very few people I have encountered in academia have a critical mind - most Harvard and Yale graduates that I have met (and I have met hundreds) cannot think critically.   That, and zero common sense are a huge problem in my opinion.  It seems that there is an inverse correlation between common sense and the number of degrees a person has.  

[LC]

Yeah it's a fair point on COVID child mortality, as of 2023 it was like 8,000 0-9y/o mortality compared probably single digit vaccine deaths in that age range, but still a very small number. 

 

And sure, not everyone can be a phD but the flipside to that argument is exactly that: Most people are not phDs, rather there are a ton of people competing for unskilled labor.

 

[Gregmal]

6 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

As for critical mind, very few people I have encountered in academia have a critical mind - most Harvard and Yale graduates that I have met (and I have met hundreds) cannot think critically.   That, and zero common sense are a huge problem in my opinion. 

Totally true. They’re some of the biggest retards I’ve met in a lot of cases. They operate in a theoretical world where anything that diverges from what they’re “taught”(brainwashed) with in the classroom needs to be ignored. They get very fragile, very quick. Of course there’s exceptions, but they’re rare.

[Gregmal]

The issue around covid was that the government thugs were actively working against the public by strong-arming big tech into censoring all the available info. I know thats not known by the Libs because their methods of obtaining information dont present them those stories, but it was very obvious from anyone whom was thinking critically at the time.

 

My wife and I both got the vaccines and one booster, and chose not to get them for our kids. Had we gotten all the info, I dont think we would have done anything differently anyway. We knew we were being lied to but considered ourselves guinea pigs for our kids...so whatever. 

 

[LC]

Problem with that is it turns into kids not getting the measles shot and their parents sending them off to school. Happened right here in CO with some granola family. Critical thinking in short supply.

[Mephistopheles]

There is the benefit of hindsight and  this being a brand new vaccine and brand new disease. The unknown unknowns of what the pathology of the disease as well as what the risks/benefits would be, both in terms of the disease related lockdowns and of the vaccine. 
 

The vast majority of the science community including Fauci were making decisions/recs in good faith in my humble opinion.

 

Of course the issue became stupidly politicized on both sides by the anti vax and pro mask cults. 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2025 by Mephistopheles

[Sweet]

12 hours ago, Parsad said:

 

Stats suggest you are wrong about Japan.  Cheers!

 

https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/japan-demographics/

 

 

Not disputing that.  Disputing that this idea that they can't muddle through, or birth rates cannot go back up.  It's up to them to decide what they want, if they want to keep a homogenous Japanese people and culture that's their right.

[Sweet]

12 hours ago, dwy000 said:

US govt disagrees

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60569

 

How can a US government report on US immigration disagree with a Danish study of Danish immigration?

 

 

Edited October 2, 2025 by Sweet

[Marco Van Basten]

11 hours ago, Mephistopheles said:

There is the benefit of hindsight and  this being a brand new vaccine and brand new disease. The unknown unknowns of what the pathology of the disease as well as what the risks/benefits would be, both in terms of the disease related lockdowns and of the vaccine. 
 

The vast majority of the science community including Fauci were making decisions/recs in good faith in my humble opinion.

 

Of course the issue became stupidly politicized on both sides by the anti vax and pro mask cults. 

 

 

That's not true.  At the same time that Fauci and Co as well as left wingers (in NYC a kid could not come into a museum if he was not vaccinated for Covid) were screaming hysterically about vaccinating 5 year old children, Europeans were saying that they saw no benefit. 

The fact that Fauci & lefties were also demanding that everyone who disagreed re vaccines was censored was in my opinion criminal.  Trust is a very fragile thing, and is easily broken.   @LC, I agree that then some people say no point in measles vaccine, and that's a tragedy.  However, again, Fauci & Co are to blame since they lied repeatedly, did their best to censor dissenting views - the opposite of what a scientist should do, and now people just don't trust what the government tells them.  Our government and universities repeatedly either outright lie or obfuscate the truth and then are surprised that people don't believe them.   

[dwy000]

2 hours ago, Sweet said:

 

How can a US government report on US immigration disagree with a Danish study of Danish immigration?

 

 

It disagrees with the idea that immigrants cost a society vs contribute to it.  

 

And you know that was the point. 

[Sweet]

36 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

It disagrees with the idea that immigrants cost a society vs contribute to it.  

 

And you know that was the point. 

 

No it doesn’t.

 

It’s two different countries, two different sets of immigrants, two different methods of analysis.

 

Why would you think it’s comparable?  

 

The immigration profile of the US and Europe are very different.

 

Danish immigration is a decent proxy for European immigration but probably not a good one for America.

 

The Danish study also looked at the mix of immigrants with some contributing significantly more than others.

 

Edited October 2, 2025 by Sweet

[Castanza]

12 hours ago, Gregmal said:

Totally true. They’re some of the biggest retards I’ve met in a lot of cases. They operate in a theoretical world where anything that diverges from what they’re “taught”(brainwashed) with in the classroom needs to be ignored. They get very fragile, very quick. Of course there’s exceptions, but they’re rare.

 

Nothing more true has been said.

 

12 hours ago, Gregmal said:

The issue around covid was that the government thugs were actively working against the public by strong-arming big tech into censoring all the available info. I know thats not known by the Libs because their methods of obtaining information dont present them those stories, but it was very obvious from anyone whom was thinking critically at the time.

 

11 hours ago, LC said:

Problem with that is it turns into kids not getting the measles shot and their parents sending them off to school. Happened right here in CO with some granola family. Critical thinking in short supply.

 

Well perhaps the big brains should re-think their approach? The reason people are skeptical about everything vaccine related today is because the egg heads in charge of covid response fumbled the ball continuously. The situation was fast changing and would have been difficult for anyone in charge....but instead of addressing the public with common sense or humility, they decided to ban qualified experts on social media, make conflicting statements and take hard stances out of pride and apply dumbass rules like "You can got to a bar but you have to get a drink AND food and not just a drink". They absolutely permanently scared some kids emotionally with how this was handled. I still see some kids wearing mask outside to this day because during the pandemic they ramped the polarization and social anxiety up 1000x and told people if you don't wear an old gym sock on your face or keep 6ft apart you're basically going to die. Absolutely moronic....

 

It would have been much better if they simple said "This is extremely fast moving complex situation that we do not have all the answers to. Please work with us as we issue new guidelines. We are attempting to get all of the information we can and are coordinating with as many experts and government agencies as possible. We understand that some information/guidelines we are giving now may or may not be relevant in the near future; but we are doing out best to provide the maximum amount of protection to the American people with the information we have." 

 

 

[dwy000]

10 minutes ago, Sweet said:

 

No it doesn’t.

 

It’s two different countries, two different sets of immigrants, two different methods of analysis.

 

Why would you think it’s comparable?  

 

The immigration profile of the US and Europe are very different.

 

Danish immigration is a decent proxy for European immigration but probably not a good one for America.

 

The Danish study also looked at the mix of immigrants with some contributing significantly more than others.

 

Then given the entire discussion was around US immigration what is the relevance of posting Danish statistics if its not comparable?

[John Hjorth]

25 minutes ago, Sweet said:

No it doesn’t.

 

It’s two different countries, two different sets of immigrants, two different methods of analysis.

 

Why would you think it’s comparable?  

 

The immigration profile of the US and Europe are very different.

 

Danish immigration is a decent proxy for European immigration but probably not a good one for America.

 

The Danish study also looked at the mix of immigrants with some contributing significantly more than others.

 

13 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

Then given the entire discussion was around US immigration what is the relevance of posting Danish statistics if its not comparable?

 

@Sweet & @dwy000,

 

I think you gentlemen are likely talking 'behind eachother' past each other. I'll elaborate later here in this topic. Naturally it's by logic based on differencies in treatments, but also about systems [some of them pretty basic].

Edited October 2, 2025 by John Hjorth
Fixed language - Google Translate is my friend!

[Marco Van Basten]

13 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

Then given the entire discussion was around US immigration what is the relevance of posting Danish statistics if its not comparable?

I remember reading a study once that stated that highly educated/skilled immigrants to the US were a net positive, while unskilled/uneducated (did not finish high school) were a big net drain.  This of course did not take into account secondary impact - lower wages for workers, higher rents and overcrowded hospitals (or if your immigrants are solely nurses and doctors - shorter wait time and better medical care.)

[Sweet]

32 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

Then given the entire discussion was around US immigration what is the relevance of posting Danish statistics if it’s not comparable?

I think you missed some posts. Marco mention an article about the costs of French immigration. In reply to Marco I mentioned the Danish study:

 

 

Edited October 2, 2025 by Sweet

[Sweet]

19 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

I remember reading a study once that stated that highly educated/skilled immigrants to the US were a net positive, while unskilled/uneducated (did not finish high school) were a big net drain.  This of course did not take into account secondary impact - lower wages for workers, higher rents and overcrowded hospitals (or if your immigrants are solely nurses and doctors - shorter wait time and better medical care.)

That’s probably the case everywhere.

 

The problem for Europe is that much of the immigration is low skilled mass immigration from the Middle East and Africa.

 

In the UK, and elsewhere, it shows that immigration can be a net economic positive or a net economic drain but it very much depends on the type of immigration.

 

More and more work is done in this in Europe now.  They are breaking down crime by immigrant ethnicity and there are large differences which often persist in second and third generations.

 

[dwy000]

30 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

I remember reading a study once that stated that highly educated/skilled immigrants to the US were a net positive, while unskilled/uneducated (did not finish high school) were a big net drain.  This of course did not take into account secondary impact - lower wages for workers, higher rents and overcrowded hospitals (or if your immigrants are solely nurses and doctors - shorter wait time and better medical care.)

I posted the government's own statistics and projections. You cant argue against that with "i remember reading a study once...".  If you have the study, post it and let's discuss it. But until then its just conjecture from someone who admittedly has a deeply one sided view. 

[dwy000]

17 minutes ago, Sweet said:

I think you missed some posts. Marco mention an article about the costs of French immigration. In reply to Marco I mentioned the Danish study:

 

 

Okay, fair enough. But if youre saying that each country is different and not relevant to other countries, then we could have over 200 different situations, all of which are a waste of time to delve into.  I'm focusing on the one most relevant to the original discussion and most posters here - the US.

[Sweet]

39 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

Okay, fair enough. But if youre saying that each country is different and not relevant to other countries, then we could have over 200 different situations, all of which are a waste of time to delve into.  I'm focusing on the one most relevant to the original discussion and most posters here - the US.

It’s different for each country for sure.  Which is why we can’t throw a blanket over immigration bad or immigration is good.  It’s way more complex than that.

 

I don’t know the economics of it in America, but I bet it’s like anywhere else.  Certain types of immigration are economically good, others types are bad.

 

There is also the social dimension too.  Some countries are basically ethnic states and immigration might causes issues with integration and social cohesion, whereas other countries are not and immigration might be more easily absorbed.

[LC]

 

2 hours ago, Castanza said:

It would have been much better if they simple said "This is extremely fast moving complex situation that we do not have all the answers to. Please work with us as we issue new guidelines. We are attempting to get all of the information we can and are coordinating with as many experts and government agencies as possible. We understand that some information/guidelines we are giving now may or may not be relevant in the near future; but we are doing out best to provide the maximum amount of protection to the American people with the information we have." 

 

Sure but this is hindsight. In the middle of a crisis, that is not the time for soft messaging. 

 

My friend's partner is a physical therapist in NYC. She sent pictures at 2 am of 3+ 18wheelers with refrigerated shipping containers, just outside her facility, used to hold overflow bodies as facilities were totally overwhelmed.

 

When planes hit the twin towers, NYPD et al didn't say "well this is an evolving situation...", no they told everyone "do this, do it now, don't question it - for safety" and they figured out the repercussions later. 

 

I mean it's not a perfect analogy but honestly I don't think the Fauci/CDC messaging was bad at all. Wear masks, keep distancing. Seems reasonable to me, at least in the heydey of the pandemic. But it was a very polarized atmosphere so I'm sure it ruffled people's feathers particularly as time went on. 

Edited October 2, 2025 by LC

[cwericb]

52 minutes ago, LC said:

 

 

Sure but this is hindsight. In the middle of a crisis, that is not the time for soft messaging. 

 

My friend's partner is a physical therapist in NYC. She sent pictures at 2 am of 3+ 18wheelers with refrigerated shipping containers, just outside her facility, used to hold overflow bodies as facilities were totally overwhelmed.

 

When planes hit the twin towers, NYPD et al didn't say "well this is an evolving situation...", no they told everyone "do this, do it now, don't question it - for safety" and they figured out the repercussions later. 

 

I mean it's not a perfect analogy but honestly I don't think the Fauci/CDC messaging was bad at all. Wear masks, keep distancing. Seems reasonable to me, at least in the heydey of the pandemic. But it was a very polarized atmosphere so I'm sure it ruffled people's feathers particularly as time went on. 

 

Yup. A lot of hindsight going on here by people who maintained that Covid was nothing to be concerned about and was "just another flu".