Political Posts

[Buckeye]

23 hours ago, whiskybravo said:

 

I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I didn’t know you were in manufacturing directly.  That definitely adds perspective I hadn’t accounted for, and I respect that you’re speaking from firsthand experience. That context does shift how I read your original post.

 

My initial response probably came off more combative than I intended. I wasn’t trying to do a gotcha, just pointing out that the article included a more mixed view than your headline suggested. But I see now how that might have felt like I was dismissing the whole point.  I wasn’t trying to invalidate your broader argument.

 

For context, I’m not in manufacturing myself. I’m a retired physician, so I don’t have skin in the game the way you do. That’s probably why I approach some of these issues more analytically or cautiously, especially around tariffs. I’ve traditionally leaned free-trade, but I’m increasingly open to the idea that, used strategically, tariffs might help bring back parts of the industrial base.

 

I also don’t like it when I find myself talking past someone on a message board.  It’s too easy to misread tone or assume the worst. I appreciate that we were able to move past that and get to a more substantive exchange. Even when perspectives differ, it’s always better to land on mutual understanding than endless back and forth.

Hi @whiskybravo, thank you for your thoughtful, honest response.  I now better understand your position.  I am pleased that we were able to continue the conversation long enough to actually have a thoughtful discussion.  And to be fair, I could have added more context to my original post, which probably would have led us here much sooner, versus my snarky excuse list.  I apologize for that and will do better in the future.

 

Regarding the current state of affairs within the manufacturing sector, my business is super small (sub 1M in revenue), so I understand that I am not exactly an Anduril.  However, all of my parts (laboratory equipment) are machined in Bucks County, PA and all of the motors we use are built by Bodine Electric, a family owned business in Peosta, Iowa.  It doesn't get anymore MAGA than that!   I could have saved some serious money over the years having my parts machined overseas and purchasing Chinese made motors (at half the cost of the Bodine motors), but I've tried to do what felt right to me, not what made the most sense, financially.  

 

So now, with 50% tariffs added to all imported Canadian aluminum, along with some increased pricing for some other small parts we purchase, you begin to understand that it's looking like the businesses that this administration is trying to help, are the same businesses that are actually footing the bill for this re-shoring.  So we're relying on the manufacturing sector to help rebuild the manufacturing sector?  That seems very odd to me.  And as I mentioned before, I am happy to pay a little extra if it'll make for a better, more prosperous nation.  However, when we're led by an Administration that has done very little to communicate a plan, it's very frustrating. 

 

On Wednesday, when I posted the original article, I had just spoken to my machinist who told me that he's as slow as he's been in a long while (worse than Covid).  That was interesting to me because he is a 2nd generation machine shop, located in PA...it's not exactly like we're making Pride flags here:)  I am worried for people like him who are now getting squeezed on both ends.  

 

And I am not here to complain.  Thankfully my business has been holding steady and I am very appreciative for the work that I have.  My concern is that there is some real weakness in the manufacturing sector, which may be getting masked over by the huge capex boom within AI. 

 

I am rooting for this Administration to succeed, because if they succeed, we all succeed.  But from some of the actions I've seen thus far, I am having some serious doubts.  In the meantime we'll keep at it and look forward to the day when we are all great again! 

 

Have a great day @whiskybravo.   

[Sweet]

2 hours ago, LC said:

 

Yeah I mean I am totally in support of remove the race element and replacing it with an income/wealth element. 
 

Last week Mcdonalds CEO gave an interview with how they see the consumer economy - essentially the well-off are continuing to thrive, while those earning <100K are struggling, even skipping meals like breakfast.

 

To me that is the problem to solve, I don't care what label you want to put on the solution-  as long as it works.

I saw that interview.  I have no problem with help for people of low income of wealth.  It will help whoever needs it regardless of race or ethnicity.

[Gregmal]

2 hours ago, LC said:

Last week Mcdonalds CEO gave an interview with how they see the consumer economy - essentially the well-off are continuing to thrive, while those earning <100K are struggling, even skipping meals like breakfast.

The sounds like something made worse by, idk, jacking up interest rates? The haves get to do NOTHING and get 5%, essentially parking their capital in unproductive and non-stimulative places, while the have nots whither away eating higher financing costs which reverberate thru pretty much everything poor people touch. 

[LC]

1 hour ago, Gregmal said:

Is it not super clear at this point that corporations really just go with the status quo and dont really care either way? They got bullied into a lot of the ESG crap during cancel culture and the Floydathon and now see the tides have turned under Trump and are reversing course. I dont think theres some commitment to either side, in most cases. There just doing what theyve always done which is just enough to straddle the line. 

 

Yeah agreed and TBH does it really make a difference? Are we going to see revenues/profits materially change from adding or removing DEI/ESG? Of course not. It's just window dressing.

 

On rates...it's complicated and I know where you stand. I think in general we need to give a little to get a little.

Want lower rates to help the low income groups? 100% - I'm right there with you. 

 

Problem is it causes inflation and asset bubbles (which disproportionately benefit the rich) - so maybe raise taxes on the upper income tiers and remove some tax loopholes to compensate 

 

It's like if Trump and Bernie combined their economic policies.

Frankly I'd pay good money to see those two running the country together.

 

Edited September 5, 2025 by LC

[Gregmal]

1 minute ago, LC said:

Problem is it causes inflation and asset bubbles (which disproportionately benefit the rich) - so maybe raise taxes on the upper income tiers and remove some tax loopholes to compensate 

Took me awhile to see it all, but frankly I think the issue is that no matter what, the wealthy pretty much always win. So when we hear this “such and such” benefit the wealthiest folks….its kinda like ok. Maybe we need to look at it the other way, what is most helpful/hurtful to the bottom? 
 

Lower rates may create asset bubbles but it also allows for participation. If I eliminate all the typical stories of how many came into their money(IE went to a great 4 year college and got a tier 1 job and then worked the system), and focused mainly on the self made people whom pulled themselves up….many are simply “I worked hard and bought my house and got lucky it appreciated” or “I ground my ass off starting and running a business and thankfully it’s doing well”. 

[whiskybravo]

1 hour ago, Buckeye said:

Hi @whiskybravo, thank you for your thoughtful, honest response.  I now better understand your position.  I am pleased that we were able to continue the conversation long enough to actually have a thoughtful discussion.  And to be fair, I could have added more context to my original post, which probably would have led us here much sooner, versus my snarky excuse list.  I apologize for that and will do better in the future.

 

Regarding the current state of affairs within the manufacturing sector, my business is super small (sub 1M in revenue), so I understand that I am not exactly an Anduril.  However, all of my parts (laboratory equipment) are machined in Bucks County, PA and all of the motors we use are built by Bodine Electric, a family owned business in Peosta, Iowa.  It doesn't get anymore MAGA than that!   I could have saved some serious money over the years having my parts machined overseas and purchasing Chinese made motors (at half the cost of the Bodine motors), but I've tried to do what felt right to me, not what made the most sense, financially.  

 

So now, with 50% tariffs added to all imported Canadian aluminum, along with some increased pricing for some other small parts we purchase, you begin to understand that it's looking like the businesses that this administration is trying to help, are the same businesses that are actually footing the bill for this re-shoring.  So we're relying on the manufacturing sector to help rebuild the manufacturing sector?  That seems very odd to me.  And as I mentioned before, I am happy to pay a little extra if it'll make for a better, more prosperous nation.  However, when we're led by an Administration that has done very little to communicate a plan, it's very frustrating. 

 

On Wednesday, when I posted the original article, I had just spoken to my machinist who told me that he's as slow as he's been in a long while (worse than Covid).  That was interesting to me because he is a 2nd generation machine shop, located in PA...it's not exactly like we're making Pride flags here:)  I am worried for people like him who are now getting squeezed on both ends.  

 

And I am not here to complain.  Thankfully my business has been holding steady and I am very appreciative for the work that I have.  My concern is that there is some real weakness in the manufacturing sector, which may be getting masked over by the huge capex boom within AI. 

 

I am rooting for this Administration to succeed, because if they succeed, we all succeed.  But from some of the actions I've seen thus far, I am having some serious doubts.  In the meantime we'll keep at it and look forward to the day when we are all great again! 

 

Have a great day @whiskybravo.   

Thanks for sharing all that. Your commitment to U.S.-based sourcing despite the cost pressures really does embody the kind of values we need more of. And I completely see your point about the burden falling hardest on the people the policy is supposed to help.  I hope your machinist sees a pickup soon.  He sounds like the kind of craftsman we can’t afford to lose.

 

I’ll be honest.  I initially reacted to the snark in your first post and probably let that set the tone for how I engaged. But after seeing how thoughtfully and humbly you’ve expressed yourself since, I’m honestly floored. You’ve articulated your experience with clarity, humility, and a lot of heart and it’s changed how I view your position entirely. Thanks for sticking with the conversation. I really appreciate it.

[LC]

4 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Took me awhile to see it all, but frankly I think the issue is that no matter what, the wealthy pretty much always win. So when we hear this “such and such” benefit the wealthiest folks….its kinda like ok. Maybe we need to look at it the other way, what is most helpful/hurtful to the bottom? 

 

Yeah that's a reasonable take. Honestly I'd be ok with it, because like you say whatever we do, the wealthy aren't going to really lose. 

[Castanza]

3 hours ago, LC said:

In fact most of the people I knew who got into tier 1 ivy leagues were rich white kids admitted via legacy, not merit. 

 

In fact most of the people I know who got into tier 1 Ivy Leagues were poor minorities admitted via DEI, not merit.

 

Is that better or worse? 

 

Progress and success are preceded by skill and motivation before anything else. There is a reason most millionaires are still self made in the US. DEI is no different than "No Child Left Behind" in education.....it's done nothing but water down the effectiveness and quality of the outcomes by replacing work ethic, talent, and ambition with a superficial racist criteria set. If you want to do DEI then it should be entirely economic based. More women are already graduating from college than men in the US; and I suspect the minority higher education rates are trending up. Demographics in the US have rapidly shifted the last decade. Access to job markets via virtualization is easier and easier. The world is rapidly globalizing and at a global level "Caucasians" only make up about 8% of the total population. 50 years from now this conversation could look very different; especially as US reputation and global dominance wane and other markets continue with more favorable birth rates, age populations, and education advancement. 

 

DEI pits people against each other imo. It takes something that is changing naturally for the better and keeps it on life-support by giving people things to blame. I have a son and another child on the way. If this second child is a daughter, I can tell you I am 1000% more confident in her future success than my sons when it comes to artificial road blocks. And that has nothing to do with the opportunities to education and resources I can provide both of them. 

 

[Parsad]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/05/us/georgia-plant-ice-raid-hundreds-arrested-hnk

 

Good luck getting your new Hyundai!    Cheers!

[Castanza]

40 minutes ago, Parsad said:

https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/05/us/georgia-plant-ice-raid-hundreds-arrested-hnk

 

Good luck getting your new Hyundai!    Cheers!

Not sure I understand this line of thinking. Everyone should be against illegal workers and ALSO illegals being exploited for cheap labor. The only bridge to higher wages for them would be US citizenship. I’m beginning to think some of you support the old mining company model with the company store. 

[Parsad]

13 minutes ago, Castanza said:

Not sure I understand this line of thinking. Everyone should be against illegal workers and ALSO illegals being exploited for cheap labor. The only bridge to higher wages for them would be US citizenship. I’m beginning to think some of you support the old mining company model with the company store. 

 

I totally agree with that.  I was just pointing out that a good chunk of that factory's employees were illegal and aren't going to be working there anymore.  I'm pretty sure there are a heck of a lot of plants around the U.S. doing the same thing.  Cheers!

[changegonnacome]

1 hour ago, Parsad said:

https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/05/us/georgia-plant-ice-raid-hundreds-arrested-hnk

 

Good luck getting your new Hyundai!    Cheers!

 

 

 

Extract from Bob Woodward's book which Gary Cohn has subsequently confirmed to be accurate.

 

It's the central problem of Trump's make America Great Again manufacturing thesis but only for US citizens .......when you get down to it US citizens aren't all that interested actually to work in factories or indeed construct factories.....Trump on this central foundational idea that underpins so much of his second term is simply dead wrong and he was told clearly about it back in 2019.

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2025 by changegonnacome

[Red Lion]

2 hours ago, LC said:

It's like if Trump and Bernie combined their economic policies.

Frankly I'd pay good money to see those two running the country together.

I had a good laugh just thinking about it. Reminds me of the gladiator quote, “are you not entertained?!”

[Red Lion]

1 hour ago, Castanza said:

In fact most of the people I know who got into tier 1 Ivy Leagues were poor minorities admitted via DEI, not merit.

100%. Maybe it’s because I’m not on the east coast. 

[Spekulatius]

On 9/3/2025 at 7:35 PM, Gregmal said:

Another good example…”oh we don’t like the way he’s dealing with iran”….

 

great, tell me what TF you thought Kamala was going to do for Israel when you voted for her….oh wait…

I didn’t say that, I said the issues are not solved. FWIW, we are now at war with Iran, which I think will be nuclear armed within a few years likely with help from Russia and/or North Korea.

 

The meeting in Tianjin eye opening in terms of the Axis (Russia, Iran, North Korea etc)  was on full display there. The foreign policy disaster with India aside. I think Trump was the catalyst for this meeting as none of the above like to be pushed around and China does try to play their cards as a predicable power in contrast to Trump.

[Spekulatius]

54 minutes ago, Red Lion said:

I had a good laugh just thinking about it. Reminds me of the gladiator quote, “are you not entertained?!”

Horseshoe theory at display here. The far right and the far left have a lot in common They come to similar conclusions albeit with different rationale.

 

Edited September 5, 2025 by Spekulatius

[LC]

2 hours ago, Castanza said:

In fact most of the people I know who got into tier 1 Ivy Leagues were poor minorities admitted via DEI, not merit.

 

Is that better or worse? 

 

It's better. If we're throwing merit out the window, I'd rather opportunity go to the poor versus the rich, all else equal.

 

Quote

Progress and success are preceded by skill and motivation before anything else

Well you're half right. Skill is simply not a good predictor of success.

 

Grit, conscientiousness, and social connection are the three best predictors of success.

Talent is largely irrelevant. So if there's something you want to pass on to your children, "grit" is the trait.

[Spekulatius]

Imagine being a billionaire and then sit on table and feel you have  suck someone’s ass like those on this Oligarch table. The average person does not have suck up to their boss’s that badly, so what is all this money good for?

 

[changegonnacome]

21 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

The meeting in Tianjin eye opening in terms of the Axis (Russia, Iran, North Korea etc)  was on full display there. The foreign policy disaster with India aside

 

Its hard to express fully how dumb its been to give this group a reason to come together so closely. That India is now being nudged in that direction is just plain bat shit crazy...crazier still when you consider that our actions against India are in service to a proxy war that is already in my opinion fundamentally lost which makes it doubly stupid.

[changegonnacome]

8 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

Imagine being a billionaire and then sit on table and feel you have  suck someone’s ass like those on this Oligarch table. The average person does not have suck up to their boss’s that badly, so what is all this money good for?

 

 

 

 

Its all showbiz baby!

[Castanza]

20 minutes ago, LC said:

 

It's better. If we're throwing merit out the window, I'd rather opportunity go to the poor versus the rich, all else equal.

 

Well you're half right. Skill is simply not a good predictor of success.

 

Grit, conscientiousness, and social connection are the three best predictors of success.

Talent is largely irrelevant. So if there's something you want to pass on to your children, "grit" is the trait.

Point is there are poor non-minorities that get discriminated against. Economic and merit based is the best approach if you need to have one.  

[LC]

4 minutes ago, Castanza said:

Point is there are poor non-minorities that get discriminated against. Economic and merit based is the best approach if you need to have one.  

Yeah I totally agree. 

[cwericb]

Trump said that the United States doesn't "do much business" with Canada.

 

How out of touch is this guy?

 

FYI

 

Edited September 6, 2025 by cwericb

[Spekulatius]

17 minutes ago, changegonnacome said:

 

Its hard to express fully how dumb its been to give this group a reason to come together so closely. That India is now being nudged in that direction is just plain bat shit crazy...crazier still when you consider that our actions against India are in service to a proxy war that is already in my opinion fundamentally lost which makes it doubly stupid.

I don’t think India is really part of the new Axis (Iran, Russia, China, North Korea). Modi just likes to keep his options open and does not to get bullied by Trump. I think he also knows that Xi Xinping is not the good guy. Russias world view is around destruction of the current world order while Xi Xinping goal is to create a new one under Chinese hegemony.

 

I think the only thing they have in common is that they want to reduce the US and the Wests power.

[vinod1]

9 hours ago, LC said:

Yeah I really don't see the major DEI impact you guys are alluding to. I work with a bunch of Asians and Indians. Not because of DEI but because of outsourcing ($$) and because they're smart as hell. That's the market, folks. 

 

And I haven't met a single smart white or asian kid whose education was hampered by DEI. In fact most of the people I knew who got into tier 1 ivy leagues were rich white kids admitted via legacy, not merit. 

 

My point is if you want to label DEI as racism, you need to at least acknowledge the centuries of racism that led to it. When did redlining stop? 1968 - talk about families sticking together...difficult when banks wouldn't lend to parents to buy a home. 

 

It did impact my child and many others. My child is objectively among the top 200 students in math in USA. It is child's passion. Child was denied admission to a STEM magnet school when the school board cancelled rigorous screening criteria a couple of days before (during the height of George Floyd riots), it was to be administered, and put in place policies that introduced randomness into the process on purpose. Child did not get in. Fortunately, they forgot to replace the process whereby students can again apply for 10th grade, and it had a rigorous process. My child got in through that. Child ended up being in the top 2% of this magnet high school and just started at one of HYPSM last month. Child would have been a layup for being admitted to this school for half a dozen reasons that I would not go into. DEI is the main reason that kept the child out in 9th grade.

 

Many students like him were not admitted and many did not bother to apply in next year. These are students who are competing to represent USA in math and other science events. I went to many school board meetings, and the DEI nonsense they are spouting was pretty racist against Indians. They want to showcase how much they are fighting  racism aganist whites and "white adjacents" (AKA Indians). 

 

My BIL is a professor at a university and he has to submit DEI statements before his application can even be looked at for funds for many projects. The project is in support of planetary defence (not exaggerating).  Professors have to write how they are addressing DEI as a screen before they even look at the project for funding. 

 

Vinod

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2025 by vinod1