What are you doing? - (Hobbies Thread)

[ERICOPOLY]

On 4/5/2022 at 5:44 AM, tytthus said:

First order fun is instant gratification stuff...

 

Second order fun is stuff that maybe didn’t seem fun at the time, but looking back afterward was...  (Nailing an equity analysis thesis and having your stuff go up?)

 

First order fun is having your stuff go up an nailing and equity analyst.

Second order fun is nailing an equity analysis and having your stuff go up.

Edited April 14, 2022 by ERICOPOLY

[Fly]

On 3/26/2022 at 3:10 AM, throw123 said:

learning to fly

 

Enjoy it! I miss the days of chasing the perfect $100 hamburger.

[ERICOPOLY]

I haven't been able to work on my house in Dunsmuir since April because my daughter is refusing to live with her mother.  So now I have full custody of her and she doesn't have her driver's license yet.

 

But she is now getting her permit and I bought her a 2008 BMW 328i for $6,000.  120k miles on it.

 

It needs new motor mounts and a new alternator and normally those two fixes would cost $2,000+ but I have a NEW HOBBY!!!

 

I bought a $75 refurbished alternator taken from a wrecked 328i and I bought a pair of new Genuine BMW engine mounts for $220 and I'm going to get my son off of video games and take the car down to my father's house who is the experienced DIY mechanic with all the tools.  Three generations of Eric's fixing my daughter's car for a day.

 

Between the directions on PelicanParts and the videos on YouTube, we have it covered.

Edited June 29, 2022 by ERICOPOLY

[Parsad]

20 minutes ago, ERICOPOLY said:

I haven't been able to work on my house in Dunsmuir since April because my daughter is refusing to live with her mother.  So now I have full custody of her and she doesn't have her driver's license yet.

 

But she is now getting her permit and I bought her a 2008 BMW 328i for $6,000.  120k miles on it.

 

It needs new motor mounts and a new alternator and normally those two fixes would cost $2,000+ but I have a NEW HOBBY!!!

 

I bought a $75 refurbished alternator taken from a wrecked 328i and I bought a pair of new Genuine BMW engine mounts for $220 and I'm going to get my son off of video games and take the car down to my father's house who is the experienced DIY mechanic with all the tools.  Three generations of Eric's fixing my daughter's car for a day.

 

Between the directions on PelicanParts and the videos on YouTube, we have it covered.

 

That will be a great memory!  Make sure you guys fix the car properly!!!!!  

 

Cheers!

[ERICOPOLY]

My father is a funny guy.  He was an HP engineer for 30 years.  He built the extension on the house I grew up in. 

 

He always did all of his auto repairs...  including the welding...  One day I was 16 and driving a girl around Mountain View on Castro St and I took a right turn slowly and the entire vehicle body collapsed down and was sitting on the right tire.  I'm not sure anymore what broke.  But it was a great memory and I liked this girl and enjoyed the extra time with her.  She's a professor now in North Carolina.

 

He used to keep his 1960s Rover TC 2000 running by filling up on aviation fuel at the Palo Alto Municipal Airport where you can buy 100 octane fuel (it is fully leaded fuel).  That's the only way the old engines will perform.  Last week I told this anecdote to the service technician at the BMW dealership and he said "that's the most American thing I've heard all day".

 

And now he has a Tesla. haha.

Edited June 29, 2022 by ERICOPOLY

[Parsad]

2 hours ago, ERICOPOLY said:

My father is a funny guy.  He was an HP engineer for 30 years.  He built the extension on the house I grew up in. 

 

He always did all of his auto repairs...  including the welding...  One day I was 16 and driving a girl around Mountain View on Castro St and I took a right turn slowly and the entire vehicle body collapsed down and was sitting on the right tire.  I'm not sure anymore what broke.  But it was a great memory and I liked this girl and enjoyed the extra time with her.  She's a professor now in North Carolina.

 

He used to keep his 1960s Rover TC 2000 running by filling up on aviation fuel at the Palo Alto Municipal Airport where you can buy 100 octane fuel (it is fully leaded fuel).  That's the only way the old engines will perform.  Last week I told this anecdote to the service technician at the BMW dealership and he said "that's the most American thing I've heard all day".

 

And now he has a Tesla. haha.

 

One of my cousin's is a heavy duty mechanic, and his wife's 2012 Lexus was having some handling issues.  They took it to the dealership where they finally worked their way to determining the entire front end suspension was failing and needed replacing for about $3,500.  He said he would fix it himself.  They said let us know what he finds.

 

He took it home, took it apart himself, and found out that one of the shocks had failed.  He went and picked up the parts from a parts store, and apparently with the Lexus, you can't just replace the shock, but have to replace the struts and coil too, plus do both sides.  The total parts were something like $400.  He took the failed shock absorber to the dealership and showed them after.  Total cost...$400 plus about 3 hours of his time.  Cheers!

[meiroy]

3 hours ago, ERICOPOLY said:

I haven't been able to work on my house in Dunsmuir since April because my daughter is refusing to live with her mother.  So now I have full custody of her and she doesn't have her driver's license yet.

 

But she is now getting her permit and I bought her a 2008 BMW 328i for $6,000.  120k miles on it.

 

It needs new motor mounts and a new alternator and normally those two fixes would cost $2,000+ but I have a NEW HOBBY!!!

 

I bought a $75 refurbished alternator taken from a wrecked 328i and I bought a pair of new Genuine BMW engine mounts for $220 and I'm going to get my son off of video games and take the car down to my father's house who is the experienced DIY mechanic with all the tools.  Three generations of Eric's fixing my daughter's car for a day.

 

Between the directions on PelicanParts and the videos on YouTube, we have it covered.

oh man that sounds awesome!

[Blugolds]

27 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

One of my cousin's is a heavy duty mechanic, and his wife's 2012 Lexus was having some handling issues.  They took it to the dealership where they finally worked their way to determining the entire front end suspension was failing and needed replacing for about $3,500.  He said he would fix it himself.  They said let us know what he finds.

 

He took it home, took it apart himself, and found out that one of the shocks had failed.  He went and picked up the parts from a parts store, and apparently with the Lexus, you can't just replace the shock, but have to replace the struts and coil too, plus do both sides.  The total parts were something like $400.  He took the failed shock absorber to the dealership and showed them after.  Total cost...$400 plus about 3 hours of his time.  Cheers!

 

Dealerships are such a scam, you pay for "billable hours" to complete a job, even though many jobs that anyone with ANY sort of mechanical ability can complete take a fraction of the time. 

 

For instance I had a V6 Camry, the front 3 spark plugs are easy access...the back 3 not so much. Shop rate is almost 8hrs to remove the entire intake manifold, all associated hoses, connections, air intake, MAF and associated piping etc to have a clean birds eye view of the 3 rear plugs for change out....any basic backyard mechanic with a wobble socket, extension, socket universal joint, all taped together and a little gumption can get to and swap out in about an hour (and thats the backyard guys) for nothing more than the $20 in NGK plugs....meanwhile shops want over $700 to do it...they dont bill on how many hours it actually takes them to do the job, they bill based off how many hours a computer program tells them it would take to do it the longest way possible with the most work involved. 

 

Other examples of poor engineering designs with batteries hidden in an engine compartment, those Ford F250-F350 that need the cab removed from the chassis to get to stuff on the engine, specifically diesels...no shop does it the longest, hardest way to make a repair...they all know the shortcuts and do it the smart, quick way...cant say that I blame them, if I owned a shop I'd likely do the same...8 hours of wrenching but able to bill for 30.....for EACH GUY. 

 

Basically then they are just charging by the job, shop rate really means nothing. I cant stand taking my stuff to a shop unless the repair needs specialized tools that I dont have or know anybody has them that I can borrow or rent, or Im in a time crunch. 

 

Basic brake job, maybe $200 in parts (new pads and rotors) from RockAuto and a couple hours vs Shop rate @ $150/hr x 3-4 hrs plus "shop supplies" plus disposal fees, plus parts... plus charging you an extra 10-15% for the parts, meanwhile they get an additional discount when they buy, so they are really making 20-25% on the parts...dont get me wrong I have no desire whatsoever to be a full time mechanic, but its why I just cant stand taking anything in that I can do myself

[boilermaker75]

7 hours ago, ERICOPOLY said:

I haven't been able to work on my house in Dunsmuir since April because my daughter is refusing to live with her mother.  So now I have full custody of her and she doesn't have her driver's license yet.

 

But she is now getting her permit and I bought her a 2008 BMW 328i for $6,000.  120k miles on it.

 

It needs new motor mounts and a new alternator and normally those two fixes would cost $2,000+ but I have a NEW HOBBY!!!

 

I bought a $75 refurbished alternator taken from a wrecked 328i and I bought a pair of new Genuine BMW engine mounts for $220 and I'm going to get my son off of video games and take the car down to my father's house who is the experienced DIY mechanic with all the tools.  Three generations of Eric's fixing my daughter's car for a day.

 

Between the directions on PelicanParts and the videos on YouTube, we have it covered.

 

When I was growing up in the sixties, everyone worked on cars. Not so much anymore. I mentioned before that I have seen a change in lab abilities in our undergraduates. I speculate it is because kids don't grow up tinkering anymore.

[LC]

Which year F250/350s are those? I was thinking about picking one up to carry a slide in.

 

Having a great summer here - hiking and fishing with the lady friend, essentially all through western colorado and southern wyoming. Saw our first moose a few days ago and a crazy rodeo out in encampment, wy (which I think is owned by John Malone).

[D33pV4lue]

On 3/10/2022 at 2:30 AM, adesigar said:

Hobby board games. There’s everything from simple bluffing/party games and Cooperative games where you defeat Marvel villains or try to get Marty McFly Back to the Future or solve cases like Sherlock Holmes to running corporations competing to Terraform Mars, Train stock trading in 1800s US and Europe, Sid Meiers Civilization, Galactic Conquest, Historical games, etc etc. About 3000 new games come out each year. Walmart has some but Target and Barnes and Noble have a much better selection.

 

 

 

 My friend group is really into board games as well. Outside of Catan and Ticket to Ride one of our favorites is Coup. Throw Throw Burrito, Secret Hitler, and Wingspan are a few others. We actually found Coup on Kickstarter and has actually been a very good source for new board games. 

[gfp]

2 hours ago, boilermaker75 said:

 

When I was growing up in the sixties, everyone worked on cars. Not so much anymore. I mentioned before that I have seen a change in lab abilities in our undergraduates. I speculate it is because kids don't grow up tinkering anymore.

 

I fear this will only get worse with the newer vehicles and apparently soon to be all electric vehicles - there isn't as much that you can work on yourself on these newer cars.  Even simple suspension work is getting more specialized.  Most of my tenants can't even change their own flat tires, a very common occurrence in New Orleans with a roofing crew and person-sized pothole on every block.

 

Today I am swapping out a King suspension on my Land Cruiser for a slightly modified set of OEM shocks.  The King shocks were amazing when driving very quickly over horrible roads but aren't as well suited to low speed driving around the city.  I killed my favorite AC Hydraulic Danish floor jack lifting a friend's 200 series Land Cruiser so now I'm back to a Daytona long reach from Harbor Freight.  So far so good on the Daytona jack but I miss my fancy AC Hydraulic jack...

[Longnose]

I just took my car in for some maintenance. They recommended according to mileage that the spark plugs be changed. They wanted $1000 to do spark plugs because the plugs on this car are under the manifold... 

 

I have a friend who restores classic cars and loves to work on old cars. But only drives brand new cars with extended warranties and as soon as the warranty is set to expire he trades it in for a new one. New cars are more computer than machine and its not worth anyone's time to work on them. 

[ERICOPOLY]

I did pay the dealership $225 to tell me everything that was wrong with it.  They found a couple of engine issues that they fixed under warranty.  Warranty???  There is a 15 yr and 150,000 mile warranty on the SULEV engine (BMW's Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle).   They said it was a $2,200 repair.  

 

The alternator:  they said they found "overcharging faults".  So they recommended replacing the alternator for $1,600.  I took it to another shop and they quoted $1,050.  The difference I figured out by researching cost of parts.  The "Genuine BMW" refurbished alternator is $800, and I believe is manufactured by Bosch.  But you can also purchase a newly refurbished Bosch alternator for $330 that is not "Genuine BMW".  That is likely the one that the other mechanic shop was going to install.  The dealership is only allowed to install the "Genuine BMW" part.

 

But there are many OE parts out there (not "Genuine", but literally exactly the same).  And for a fraction of the cost.

 

I'm quoting one of the websites that sells OE parts:

 

What are OE BMW Parts?

OE BMW parts are exactly the same as Genuine BMW parts, but they have the logo or brand scratched off of them.

An OE manufacturer might make 10,000 control arms, all with “BMW” branded on them, but then BMW says “oh, well we only need 7,000 of them”. So 3,000 control arms sit in the manufacturers inventory that dealerships aren’t going to buy. What do they do with them?

The manufacturer isn’t allowed to sell these to anyone other than BMW, because it has the brand on the part and doing so would be a licensing violation. So, they physically scratch the BMW brand off of the product, so that they are not violating licensing agreements, and then sell these to parts stores like ourselves to sell to end consumers.

These parts are usually more difficult to come by as there is always a limited quality of leftover, unsold parts that BMW didn’t buy direct from the manufacturer.

 

 

 

[ERICOPOLY]

Also, the dealership wanted to replace the "coolant hose w/plastic flange" part that runs from the thermostat to the cylinder head.  The hose and the flange are one single part and are "Genuine BMW".  The plastic flange is a common point of failure because they literally disintegrate.  Then when it completely fails the coolant leaks everywhere and you get stranded somewhere on the highway and maybe the electric water pump is damaged too.

 

The dealership noticed that coolant was beginning to drip out slowly around my plastic flange and so they were recommending to replace the entire part before things get worse as they are known to do.

 

So I found that Rein makes an aluminum "mickey mouse" flange for only $20 and it comes with a hose clamp.  So you just take a hacksaw and cut off your plastic flange and install this one instead.  Much easier job because the other end of that coolant hose is in a tiny cramped space and the DIY forums say it's a nightmare to remove.

 

But the dealership is only allowed to replace the deteriorating plastic piece with another plastic piece that will also fail in time.

 

The dealership service guy said he had no idea the aluminum piece even was an option and agreed it would be much better.  But he won't install it because it is not "Genuine BMW".

 

So we're doing that as well.  Super easy DIY job for $20 in parts.  They quoted $338 at the BMW dealership.

Edited June 29, 2022 by ERICOPOLY

[Blugolds]

11 hours ago, LC said:

Which year F250/350s are those? I was thinking about picking one up to carry a slide in.

 

 

 

I'm only familiar with the Powerstrokes. 

 

Not sure what years you would be interested in...1999-2003 with 7.3 PSD are the best/most reliable by far...tough to find clean low mileage ones and if you do the prices they have been bringing have been insane in the last year or two...I've seen some clean examples with ~100 mi selling in the 40k's..that was shocking, but they have no emissions garbage, get better MPG, simpler and avg guy can work on them etc and obviously new ones are gonna be in the $70k+ so maybe thats how buyers justify it. No cab removal needed. 

 

The 2003 + 6.0 was absolute garabge IMO...horrible mileage and tons of problems...you can look into it...enough time has gone by now that aftermarket companies have figured out what major fail points are and are able to "bulletproof" them, but to have the parts swapped out to make it reliable is a significant cost..I dont have recent experience with these but it used to be around $5-6k to fix what will inevitably fail, not if, when. Cab removal needed

 

Next gen 6.4 was slightly better than 6.0, fixed some quips but had others...nobody was super excited about them. Cab removal needed. 

 

Supposedly the new 6.7 is pretty decent, and most issues addressed. Most things do not need cab removal unless a significant repair. I have a close friend that bought a brand new 6.7 dually, decked out truck, was in the $70k's and had so many problems with it he was talking to an attorney about lemon laws. Long story short there is a shaft/cog in the transmission that holds the driveshaft in place while in park...the cog broke and the truck took off on him down a slight incline as he was getting out of the truck, truck ended hitting a tree by the time he was able to fling the door back open runing along side it and jump in to slam on the brakes. The cause was the cog, but the damage wasnt just the cog, it needed new a new fender, bumper, hood, mirror etc...alot of damage done and Ford drug their feet on the "investigation", long story short after 4-5 months they fixed it, replaced the transmission and kept it, made him sign a non disclosure etc. He wasnt happy. 

 

Also some guys I have talked to that do this regularly, dedicated shops, can pull a cab in a half hour (they charge you for more hours...but they can pull them quick). Guys have learned the tricks to work on them. 

 

Again not sure if you are even in the diesel market or if you are considering a gasser, but I would do some google searches on whatever you are looking at before buying. I have more experience with the Duramax and specifically the Cummins. Not a fan of Dodge but the cummins is IMO the best option and each "generation" has its own particulars, I prefer the older stuff that is simple, bulletproof reliable, easy to work on for the avg guy etc. For reference my truck is a 1997 Ram 2500 Diesel with 87k miles, looks like it rolled off the showroom floor. Doesnt have all the fancy tech of the new stuff but it avgs 21.5 mpg and I can do darn near everything I would need to with a simple basic wrench/ratchet set I keep behind the back seat. 

 

I love trips out west..have spent a lot of time in CO, more in MT, backcountry hiking/camping/fishing, one of my favorite places in the world. Im not a  huge rodeo fan but its fun to watch sometimes, I met Tuff Hedeman at Cheyenne Frontier Days back around the time the movie 8 Seconds came out, nice fella. 

 

10 hours ago, gfp said:

so now I'm back to a Daytona long reach from Harbor Freight.  So far so good on the Daytona jack

 

I have the same jack, has held up well and I like it, I know a couple other guys that have the same jack and use theirs more in a month than I will in the next 10 years...no complaints. No AC hydraulic...but a good value for the money. 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Blugolds11

[Parsad]

11 hours ago, gfp said:

 

I fear this will only get worse with the newer vehicles and apparently soon to be all electric vehicles - there isn't as much that you can work on yourself on these newer cars.  Even simple suspension work is getting more specialized.  Most of my tenants can't even change their own flat tires, a very common occurrence in New Orleans with a roofing crew and person-sized pothole on every block.

 

 

 

True!  At the same time, did we ever think that certain automotive issues or performance could be simply fixed by a wireless update?

 

There are pros and cons to everything.  Sure, we won't have as many people that can simply fix old automobiles, appliances, etc, but at the same time, we carry our phones all over the world with ease, drive vehicles that need very little servicing, have an abundance of food choices and in many cases, can work from home regularly, etc, etc.

 

I always hear from family and friends how things are so much worse...and I'm sure certain things are...but I'm constantly amazed by what science and technology allow us to do as well.  Cheers!  

[LC]

My buddy had the ole 7.3 powerstroke diesel. 01 model I believe. That thing was a beast. Someone stole it right out of his front driveway. He had it chipped and boy did it scoot. Got it replaced with the 6.7 f350 which he loves but I haven’t ridden it yet.

 

I was looking at the 6.7 off his recommendation, I prefer ford but cant shake a fist at the Cummins engine. So that’s my backup. Probably going to give the 6.7 another year or two to see how it shakes out before I make my choice. 
 

I’ve been doing a lot of backcountry hiking and fishing. Just spent a week out by crested butte/Taylor lake. Incredible. Tiny little streams I’m just yanking out rainbows and cutthroats with my 3wt. It’s amazing. Montana I haven’t done but I hope to get up there and do some riding and fishing.

[Blugolds]

32 minutes ago, LC said:

My buddy had the ole 7.3 powerstroke diesel. 01 model I believe. That thing was a beast. Someone stole it right out of his front driveway. He had it chipped and boy did it scoot. Got it replaced with the 6.7 f350 which he loves but I haven’t ridden it yet.

 

I was looking at the 6.7 off his recommendation, I prefer ford but cant shake a fist at the Cummins engine. So that’s my backup. Probably going to give the 6.7 another year or two to see how it shakes out before I make my choice. 
 

I’ve been doing a lot of backcountry hiking and fishing. Just spent a week out by crested butte/Taylor lake. Incredible. Tiny little streams I’m just yanking out rainbows and cutthroats with my 3wt. It’s amazing. Montana I haven’t done but I hope to get up there and do some riding and fishing.

 

Yeah those 7.3s were great, like the Cummins, they put them in everything including larger class trucks, bus, ambulance etc. Proven platform and not uncommon to see them in the 300-400k mi odometer reading without major mechanical issues. 

 

The newer diesels are a totally different ball game. For reference my 1997 is rated at 185hp and 400ftlbs tq...those numbers are laughable by todays standards, most are double those numbers now. Alot of changes and improvements to get those numbers. The 1997 12 valve is 100% mechanical, literally needs a power wire for starter and fuel shut off solenoid and it will run, fuel pump, injection pump, everything mechanical, very simple. 

 

I rode in the 6.7 my buddy has before the "incident"...the thing was a beast, besides the obvious comforts and tech...the torque is insane its like 475hp and over 1000 ft lbs of torque...always good to let a couple years of a new platform run so they work the kinks out and gives time for buyer feedback to come in and the design gremlins to show up. 

 

All my trips west have primarily been camping....in order to fish! I'm not gonna say that MT is any better than CO but its def not any worse!

 

A funny story that would be too long to go into detail, myself and two friends headed out to MT in college on a break for some camping and fishing. Road trip out, excited, long story short..in MN/WI we have land measured in acres...if you've got 100 thats pretty decent depending on the area and if its for farming or recreation...well in MT they own "sections"..couple young college guys making their way through MT and backcountry sites, working the streams etc on our way...we legitimately got a little turned around on some unlabeled back roads following a lousy map (phone gps had no service and were dead so we went old school) we had splurged and rented a fire lookout for a night (I think $25/night) and thought we were following the map to the general area and then would park the car and hike the 5ish miles back into the cabin...we left the truck and headed out...couldnt find it and it was getting dark so we ended up sleeping next to a stream in the middle of BF nowhere and in the morning made our way back to the truck to set out for our next location...when we got to the truck we were met by the local Sherriff informing us that we were trespassing (we literally had a map in our hands walking out) told us to follow him into town to sort it out. Ended up that some guy that had a mansion on the top of a mountain (that I saw and legit wondered how they even got a concrete truck or crane up there) saw us and reported us and wanted us prosecuted..it was like something out a movie...we literally walked on the property miles from this mansion off in the distance..but he basically owned an entire valley as far as you could see, multiple sections...no talking to him, no reasoning with the Sherriff...our options were $600 out of each of us and be on our way or sit two nights in jail till Monday morning when we could see the judge..after an hour in the dept, my buddy calling his law school fiancé and me calling my state trooper buddies back home... he finally figured out we were broke college kids and offered $100 bail and promise to come back Monday. We did and my two buddies pled not guilty...at the advice of a local lawyer I called and other resources I pled my case and threw myself at the mercy of the court (the court was straight out of an old western, swinging saloon doors to enter the court room, wood church pew seating and half the town must have showed up for the live judge judy entertainment...the judge sentenced me to $300 in fines and 6 months probation!!! I went to the clerk of court and set up payment...asked what I could afford and I told her $10/mo, so for YEARS I would mail a check to Sweet Grass County MT for $10 and they would mail me back a receipt...sure the postage cost me a little but at the time it was my only option and I didnt want to give it to them easy. Clerk also told me it happens every summer, usually not a big deal but some of the big shots were sticklers about out of towners on their land. She also said Tom Brokaw had a place in the area etc (not saying he was THE guy).

 

MT state statute reads that it is your responsibility to know where you are at all times...doesnt have to be posted...doesn't matter if you are lost etc..no excuses..

 

Never would have happened in MN/WI. 

 

So always know where you're at lol, I left out a ton of other things from that adventure, some amazing memories.

 

 

[Longnose]

9 hours ago, Blugolds11 said:

 

Yeah those 7.3s were great, like the Cummins, they put them in everything including larger class trucks, bus, ambulance etc. Proven platform and not uncommon to see them in the 300-400k mi odometer reading without major mechanical issues. 

 

The newer diesels are a totally different ball game. For reference my 1997 is rated at 185hp and 400ftlbs tq...those numbers are laughable by todays standards, most are double those numbers now. Alot of changes and improvements to get those numbers. The 1997 12 valve is 100% mechanical, literally needs a power wire for starter and fuel shut off solenoid and it will run, fuel pump, injection pump, everything mechanical, very simple. 

 

I rode in the 6.7 my buddy has before the "incident"...the thing was a beast, besides the obvious comforts and tech...the torque is insane its like 475hp and over 1000 ft lbs of torque...always good to let a couple years of a new platform run so they work the kinks out and gives time for buyer feedback to come in and the design gremlins to show up. 

 

All my trips west have primarily been camping....in order to fish! I'm not gonna say that MT is any better than CO but its def not any worse!

 

A funny story that would be too long to go into detail, myself and two friends headed out to MT in college on a break for some camping and fishing. Road trip out, excited, long story short..in MN/WI we have land measured in acres...if you've got 100 thats pretty decent depending on the area and if its for farming or recreation...well in MT they own "sections"..couple young college guys making their way through MT and backcountry sites, working the streams etc on our way...we legitimately got a little turned around on some unlabeled back roads following a lousy map (phone gps had no service and were dead so we went old school) we had splurged and rented a fire lookout for a night (I think $25/night) and thought we were following the map to the general area and then would park the car and hike the 5ish miles back into the cabin...we left the truck and headed out...couldnt find it and it was getting dark so we ended up sleeping next to a stream in the middle of BF nowhere and in the morning made our way back to the truck to set out for our next location...when we got to the truck we were met by the local Sherriff informing us that we were trespassing (we literally had a map in our hands walking out) told us to follow him into town to sort it out. Ended up that some guy that had a mansion on the top of a mountain (that I saw and legit wondered how they even got a concrete truck or crane up there) saw us and reported us and wanted us prosecuted..it was like something out a movie...we literally walked on the property miles from this mansion off in the distance..but he basically owned an entire valley as far as you could see, multiple sections...no talking to him, no reasoning with the Sherriff...our options were $600 out of each of us and be on our way or sit two nights in jail till Monday morning when we could see the judge..after an hour in the dept, my buddy calling his law school fiancé and me calling my state trooper buddies back home... he finally figured out we were broke college kids and offered $100 bail and promise to come back Monday. We did and my two buddies pled not guilty...at the advice of a local lawyer I called and other resources I pled my case and threw myself at the mercy of the court (the court was straight out of an old western, swinging saloon doors to enter the court room, wood church pew seating and half the town must have showed up for the live judge judy entertainment...the judge sentenced me to $300 in fines and 6 months probation!!! I went to the clerk of court and set up payment...asked what I could afford and I told her $10/mo, so for YEARS I would mail a check to Sweet Grass County MT for $10 and they would mail me back a receipt...sure the postage cost me a little but at the time it was my only option and I didnt want to give it to them easy. Clerk also told me it happens every summer, usually not a big deal but some of the big shots were sticklers about out of towners on their land. She also said Tom Brokaw had a place in the area etc (not saying he was THE guy).

 

MT state statute reads that it is your responsibility to know where you are at all times...doesnt have to be posted...doesn't matter if you are lost etc..no excuses..

 

Never would have happened in MN/WI. 

 

So always know where you're at lol, I left out a ton of other things from that adventure, some amazing memories.

 

 

 

That is a hell of a story! All that harassment for 10$ per month. 

 

My wife's family owns a ranch as large or larger than the one you mention in your story in the mountains of Utah. We regularly deal with trespassers although we've never prosecuted any. Most leave with a polite reminder that its private property. Last year someone ignored a turn around request and took a different road and rolled their van down into the river. They were lucky the family member that asked them to turn around was still nearby because it would have been a 10+ mile long walk back to the main road and chance of cell service in between is very low. 

 

Also have had search and rescue called in the winter on snowmobilers trespassing and getting stuck up there 2 years back. Usually one story per year. 

[LC]

I've sometimes worked a stream down into private property - usually missed a posted note. But I always keep an extra cold beer to share in case the owner comes down. Never failed yet - and I usually get some good fishing tips out of it. Great story about Montana. I'll definitely keep that in mind, haha! I can certainly imagine some property owners being unreasonable. Speaking of Tom Brokow, I was a high school kid going to my buddy's place to study and sure enough who walks into the building but Tom Brokow himself. I asked my friend about it and apparently he owned the duplex above them. Frankly I'd rather own property in Montana than in the UES but I guess if you can have both, why not?

[Blugolds]

7 hours ago, Longnose said:

 

That is a hell of a story! All that harassment for 10$ per month. 

 

My wife's family owns a ranch as large or larger than the one you mention in your story in the mountains of Utah. We regularly deal with trespassers although we've never prosecuted any. Most leave with a polite reminder that its private property. Last year someone ignored a turn around request and took a different road and rolled their van down into the river. They were lucky the family member that asked them to turn around was still nearby because it would have been a 10+ mile long walk back to the main road and chance of cell service in between is very low. 

 

Also have had search and rescue called in the winter on snowmobilers trespassing and getting stuck up there 2 years back. Usually one story per year. 

 

Yeah I get it, I wouldnt want people running all over my property either, ripping things up, leaving fencing open etc but I would be reasonable about it if they made an honest mistake and didnt do any damage...Also for the sake of clarification...this guys property bordered public property, a national park...property that had the cabin that we rented for the night...so it wasnt totally random...there was a method to our madness, we thought we were taking a road to get as close to where we would go in to get to the cabin since it was late afternoon and running out of daylight. We were hoping to hike 5-6 miles back in, rather than 10. 

 

Also, imagine dirt roads, zero road signs, using a paper map from the forest service and literally counting the left/right turns to navigate....(ok we go past one road coming up to the right and then the next road after that we take a left etc)

 

I would have loved a polite reminder...or notification at all of trespass, we honestly didnt know, in fact we were just glad to have made it back to the truck lol. 

 

Another funny thing..when the Sheriff (sitting in his office with his cowboy boots up on the desk) offered us "I suppose I could take $100 bail off each of ya with a promise to come back Monday)" we took it, didnt have a choice...the alternative was sitting in jail...and no joke...the "JAIL" was in the basement of the building, single cell..flat bars...bed hanging of the wall from chains and he said it was repurposed from an old Navy battleship! LOL....straight out f a John Wayne movie...and he made the comment after taking our $100..."probably better this way anyway....I didnt have anything to feed ya"...keep in mind that would have been Friday night, all day Sat, all day Sun and then see the judge Monday morning...

[ERICOPOLY]

23 hours ago, LC said:

I've sometimes worked a stream down into private property - usually missed a posted note. 

 

And it is often the case that you are within your right to do so provided you walk within the stream or the high water marks.  It's his land, he can be told to fuck off, but doing so may not be advisable.

 

https://www.in-fisherman.com/editorial/understanding-riverine-rights-today/385605

 

Montana: Western states are known to be fussy about riverine rights. Montana is perhaps the most friendly to anglers and boaters. Rafters can float and anglers can wade in rivers that flow through private land in Montana so long as they enter from public property or with permission from landowners. They can even leave the water and walk between the normal high-water marks.

Edited July 1, 2022 by ERICOPOLY

[LC]

Thanks for the info - that's what I've done since I was a kid. I enter from a public access point and stay within the stream. I know some states say only the water is public, the riverbed itself is property of the landowner. But I only recall once ever having an owner take issue with that. The only time I ever really leave the stream is if it's too dangerous to continue thru, usually then i'll just move downstream via the bank. I used to fish the esopus in the catskills and for decades this guy Ray owned a little cabin area on the creek that he rented out to people. He was a great dude, always shared a beer and smoke and whatnot. Well he died, his crappy kid took over and was just an asshole to everyone, lost all his customers and I think eventually sold the place. Still great fishing, though.

 

 

[ERICOPOLY]

The difficult landowners are the ones who aren't aware of the public right of way between the high water marks.  There was even a guy on Bainbridge Island who built a fence extending well across the beach out into the public right of way which made it impassable on foot.

 

Imagine building a fence across the sidewalk in front of your own house just because it is your private property.

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by ERICOPOLY