Guest Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Do you think Trump would be president if people who voted for Trump were better off? I know a lot of Trump voters. Only very few of them actually like him. People voted for him because they are desperate and/or angry. Obama's poor policies led to Trump. If Obama would have been less of a Wall Street and China puppet, we wouldn't have Trump. I'll also place blame on Clinton and Bush (but considering we had Democrats for 16 years and Republicans for 8, they get most of the blame). Keep in mind that I voted more times for Obama than I did Trump (1 vote to 0). Some people are conflating their hardship of the 2008-2020 time to Obama, that's for sure. Just because he was President does not mean he caused the hardship. Correlation doe not imply causation. When Obama walked into the Oval Office on January 2009, we were in the midst of the largest recession since GD (that Republican guy before him was in charge leading up to it). The GFC might have more to do with people's hardships leading to vote for Trump than Obama. In the 1930s, there was a lot of radicalism in Europe and the U.S. due to the Great Depression. Similar story for 2008-now. Easier to blame Obama, I get it. Do you really think Obama hit Wall St has hard as he should of? Or did all of the bankers contributing to his campaign help make sure that didn't happen? I don't think this conversation belongs in this thread. So here's my last take on this: - Your "bankers contributing to his campaign" is ridiculous and you know it--just because an employee at a big bank donates up to a few thousand dollars to a campaign does not mean someone is in the pocket of banks. Certainly not in the same ballpark as having people like Gary Cohn and Steve Mnuchin (Goldman alum) in charge of economic affairs... - Wall Street was no fan of Obama, getting seriously butt hurt about him calling them "fat cats" early in his term in '09; There was also an occupy Wall St protest that occurred during his admin: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB126073152465089651 - The problem was that the time to be tough on Wall St was not after the crisis, but before it. Republicans GWB and Alan Greenspan believed in "financial innovation" and let Wall St run amuck in 2000s up to 2008 and when they left office, everything fell apart just in time for Obama to enter in January '09 - Obama could not aggressively attack Wall St during GFC because he needed the economy to recover and for that to happen, banks to lend again and people to have confidence in the banks again; I am not sure what you are proposing. Should he have nationalized the banks instead? - I am not sure what the alternative to Obama that would have resulted in whatever you are after. Mr Bain Capital Mitt Romney? You think Mr. Private Equity would have helped the common man and taken on Wall St? How about Donaldo who makes Stevie Mnuchin/Gary Cohn (The Goldman guys) his leads on economic matters and cuts corporate taxes to the bone? Is he "taking on Wall St"??? - So tell me--how is the common man doing after 3 yrs of Trump? Donaldo is not here to help the common man, but he is quite adept at conning the common man. The common man seems to relish voting against his own interest. Oh well, at least some people think they have their guy in the WH--I guess that's all that matters. I do acknowledge his talent for manipulating such people--he is quite skilled at it. I guess Obama was not manipulative enough to get people to think he was on their side. He was too "professorial" for their tastes (i.e. made them feel dumber). They need a POTUS that speaks/tweets on their level--too bad he won't give them actual economic results they desire. I agree that Greenspan and Bush dropped the ball. I would have preferred no bailouts and we live with it. I think Trump is terrible for the common man. His tax cuts were bs.
ERICOPOLY Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Nice to see the President taking on the corruption of The WHO: The President who didn't fill the US seat at the WHO, and who now claims the US has less influence than China at the WHO? The one who loudly praised the Chinese handling of the virus on Twitter in late January? Who ignored US Intelligence warnings about the virus? And now blames the WHO as part of a CYA compaign that includes blaming the governors for the US's stay-at-home response at a time when the Federal guidelines recommended stay-at-home? Right... nice to see all of that.
LC Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Nice to see the President taking on the corruption of The WHO: The President who didn't fill the US seat at the WHO, and who now claims the US has less influence than China at the WHO? The one who loudly praised the Chinese handling of the virus on Twitter in late January? Who ignored US Intelligence warnings about the virus? And now blames the WHO as part of a CYA compaign that includes blaming the governors for the US's stay-at-home response? Right... nice to see all of that. Didn't Trump and his administration make many of the mistakes he is criticizing WHO for? Reminds me of this Canadian classic:
ERICOPOLY Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Nice to see the President taking on the corruption of The WHO: The President who didn't fill the US seat at the WHO, and who now claims the US has less influence than China at the WHO? The one who loudly praised the Chinese handling of the virus on Twitter in late January? Who ignored US Intelligence warnings about the virus? And now blames the WHO as part of a CYA compaign that includes blaming the governors for the US's stay-at-home response? Right... nice to see all of that. Didn't Trump and his administration make many of the mistakes he is criticizing WHO for? Reminds me of this Canadian classic: Whenever he points the finger we need to be looking closely at him because that's what he does when he messes up. Anyone with children knows this one. My wife does employee investigations in an HR role and has to fire lots of employees like him. He's that bad boss who takes credit for everything he had nothing to do with, and blames others for everything that goes wrong. It's incredible that he has been running the country for more than 3 years and has made no mistakes -- his predecessor made them all and we know this because he left the cupboards bare (of course, poor Donald, there was nothing he could do for 3 years with a bare cupboard).
ERICOPOLY Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Helps explain the delayed US coronavirus response -- keeping these positions staffed is whose responsibility?: https://www.npr.org/2020/04/10/832131788/unfilled-or-acting-positions-in-federal-agencies-delay-u-s-response-to-epidemic
cubsfan Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Interesting that WHO is responsible for International Public Health, but now it's Trump's job to keep the virus from spreading in China and around the world. You guys don't pass the smell test making excuses for WHO - but go right ahead. WHO will likely start listening and restructuring when they need money from the USA. But in the meantime, since they totally failed their job, because they are a corrupt Institution - why waste our money.
Cevian Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Interesting that WHO is responsible for International Public Health, but now it's Trump's job to keep the virus from spreading in China and around the world. You guys don't pass the smell test making excuses for WHO - but go right ahead. WHO will likely start listening and restructuring when they need money from the USA. But in the meantime, since they totally failed their job, because they are a corrupt Institution - why waste our money. +1
clutch Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 For many people, Trump's actions have become the gold standard for distinguishing good (friends) vs. bad (enemies). Whenever Trump criticizes something or someone, that target suddenly becomes good or their dearest friend. The hatred toward the man is so strong that it has turned their brains to mush. ::)
Casey Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 For many people, Trump's actions have become the gold standard for distinguishing good (friends) vs. bad (enemies). Whenever Trump criticizes something or someone, that target suddenly becomes good or their dearest friend. The hatred toward the man is so strong that it has turned their brains to mush. ::) Irony much :o lol Edit. I should probably interpret this a bit more charitably, since you're right. This kind of blindness does happen in the anti-Trump direction you're talking about. Trump's a king of generating brain mush in his supporters as much as haters though, imho.
ERICOPOLY Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 You guys don't pass the smell test making excuses for WHO - but go right ahead. More straw man: first false attribution, and then attacking. The irony is that you are making excuses for Trump whose withdrawal of US presence and funding from the WHO cedes greater influence to China. The European Union and Australia led the calls for an investigation (not the US): https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/19/china/wha-pandemic-inquiry-resolution-vote-intl/index.html
LC Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Interesting that WHO is responsible for International Public Health, but now it's Trump's job to keep the virus from spreading in China and around the world. No, it's Trump's job to keep the virus from spreading in the USA. Considering he failed in that regards, is he going to write a similar letter to himself? Whenever Trump criticizes something or someone, that target suddenly becomes good or their dearest friend. The hatred toward the man is so strong that it has turned their brains to mush. ::) Actually I would argue the only one's brains turning to mush are those who cannot support their position with fact and consistent logic. And to characterize valid criticism with "you just hate the guy and it's turning your brain to mush" is similarly asinine. For example, both Trump and the WHO failed in their respective roles, and for largely the same reasons. Yet Trump wants it both ways: to criticize the WHO and not be criticized himself. This is logically inconsistent, and if one refuses to acknowledge this, well then they can refer to your comment on brain mush.
Liberty Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Nice to see the President taking on the corruption of The WHO: The President who didn't fill the US seat at the WHO, and who now claims the US has less influence than China at the WHO? The one who loudly praised the Chinese handling of the virus on Twitter in late January? Who ignored US Intelligence warnings about the virus? And now blames the WHO as part of a CYA compaign that includes blaming the governors for the US's stay-at-home response at a time when the Federal guidelines recommended stay-at-home? Right... nice to see all of that. Trump taking on corruption is the most laughable idea I've ever heard. It's like OJ Simpson saying he's going to find the murderer... Anyone who seriously believes that, I have a bridge to sell them. Trump is looking for someone to blame for his shortcomings and incompetence, as usual, and the WHO is just one of the latest victims. We've seen how Trump has handled the past few months. There's no reason at all to believe that whatever anyone else would have said earlier that he'd have been one iota more competent at the time, or that he'd even have listened. Other competent leaders have acted well with a lot fewer resources and the same public info as the president of the richest, most advanced, with the best intelligence gathering agencies and scientific and medical facilities in the world. No organization is perfect, so Trump can always find a flaw in WHO/NATO/whatever and then pretend that this flaw is the reason for all his mistakes, but that's just passing the buck and moral cowardice. You think other presidents had perfect organizations and perfect intelligence when they acted?
ERICOPOLY Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Nice to see the President taking on the corruption of The WHO: The President who didn't fill the US seat at the WHO, and who now claims the US has less influence than China at the WHO? The one who loudly praised the Chinese handling of the virus on Twitter in late January? Who ignored US Intelligence warnings about the virus? And now blames the WHO as part of a CYA compaign that includes blaming the governors for the US's stay-at-home response at a time when the Federal guidelines recommended stay-at-home? Right... nice to see all of that. Trump taking on corruption is the most laughable idea I've ever heard. It's like OJ Simpson saying he's going to find the murderer... Anyone who seriously believes that, I have a bridge to sell them. Trump is looking for someone to blame for his shortcomings and incompetence, as usual, and the WHO is just one of the latest victims. The WHO might be too heavily influenced by China. I have never disputed that. I have merely pointed out that Trump has withdrawn the US’s influence — if someone filled the void, how unexpected.
cubsfan Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 The WHO might be too heavily influenced by China. I have merely pointed out that Trump has withdrawn the US’s influence — if someone filled the void, how unexpected. Yeah, we need WHO about as much as we need the UN - both are worthless organizations. Let's keep funding them though!
ERICOPOLY Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 The WHO might be too heavily influenced by China. I have merely pointed out that Trump has withdrawn the US’s influence — if someone filled the void, how unexpected. Yeah, we need WHO about as much as we need the UN - both are worthless organizations. Let's keep funding them though! How about we don’t fill the open US seat for years at the WHO and then complain. That’s what he did.
Guest Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 The WHO might be too heavily influenced by China. I have merely pointed out that Trump has withdrawn the US’s influence — if someone filled the void, how unexpected. Yeah, we need WHO about as much as we need the UN - both are worthless organizations. Let's keep funding them though! How about we don’t fill the open US seat for years at the WHO and then complain. That’s what he did. It's hard not to complain when you're perfect and no one else is!
rb Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Nice to see the President taking on the corruption of The WHO: The President who didn't fill the US seat at the WHO, and who now claims the US has less influence than China at the WHO? The one who loudly praised the Chinese handling of the virus on Twitter in late January? Who ignored US Intelligence warnings about the virus? And now blames the WHO as part of a CYA compaign that includes blaming the governors for the US's stay-at-home response at a time when the Federal guidelines recommended stay-at-home? Right... nice to see all of that. Trump taking on corruption is the most laughable idea I've ever heard. It's like OJ Simpson saying he's going to find the murderer... Anyone who seriously believes that, I have a bridge to sell them. Trump is looking for someone to blame for his shortcomings and incompetence, as usual, and the WHO is just one of the latest victims. The WHO might be too heavily influenced by China. I have never disputed that. I have merely pointed out that Trump has withdrawn the US’s influence — if someone filled the void, how unexpected. This is pretty typical Trump supporter logic. Trump: Let's pull out of X international organization. China moves in. Trump Supporter: Let's pull out of Y organization. China is has too much influence, just look at X organization. China has already proven that they're willing to spend money to get influence. There must be a collective laughter somewhere in Beijing when they see China haters making their job easier.
cubsfan Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Nice to see the President taking on the corruption of The WHO: The President who didn't fill the US seat at the WHO, and who now claims the US has less influence than China at the WHO? The one who loudly praised the Chinese handling of the virus on Twitter in late January? Who ignored US Intelligence warnings about the virus? And now blames the WHO as part of a CYA compaign that includes blaming the governors for the US's stay-at-home response at a time when the Federal guidelines recommended stay-at-home? Right... nice to see all of that. Trump taking on corruption is the most laughable idea I've ever heard. It's like OJ Simpson saying he's going to find the murderer... Anyone who seriously believes that, I have a bridge to sell them. Trump is looking for someone to blame for his shortcomings and incompetence, as usual, and the WHO is just one of the latest victims. The WHO might be too heavily influenced by China. I have never disputed that. I have merely pointed out that Trump has withdrawn the US’s influence — if someone filled the void, how unexpected. This is pretty typical Trump supporter logic. Trump: Let's pull out of X international organization. China moves in. Trump Supporter: Let's pull out of Y organization. China is has too much influence, just look at X organization. China has already proven that they're willing to spend money to get influence. There must be a collective laughter somewhere in Beijing when they see China haters making their job easier. Now that is really dumb - let's give money to a failed organization so they can fail some more. The WHO corruption is completely obvious. Once again, your logic does not pass the smell test. We should have given NATO some more money instead of threatening defunding an organization that had a bunch of free riders underfunding it. Oh, shit ! That worked brilliantly for Trump - much to the embarrassment of idiot liberals. Here's a brilliant liberal idea for you: LET'S GIVE IRAN BILLIONS SO THEY WON'T BUILD A NUKE AND DESTABILIZE THE MIDDLE EAST. Oh, shit! We tried that brilliant idea too. You guys are full of laughs today
ERICOPOLY Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Now that is really dumb - let's give money to a failed organization so they can fail some more. There was a time when the US's enemies criticized the UN for being the US's puppet. Trump left a vacant US seat unfilled at the WHO and is now withdrawing funding. I don't think the UN will be accused of being Trump's puppet with this behavior.
cwericb Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Trump ignored WHO’s warnings back in January and is now trying to blame WHO for it. As far as funding WHO is concerned, the US is $200,000,000 in arrears. And yet Cubs complains about NATO members not paying their share? Ironic isn't it. Remember those cult members that Trump said would still vote for him if he shot someone on 5th Ave? He was talking about Cubsfan. According to Cubs, Trump is a very stable genius who is always right. If trump said black was white, Cubs would agree and no amount of logic here would change his mind.
Liberty Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Nice to see the President taking on the corruption of The WHO: The President who didn't fill the US seat at the WHO, and who now claims the US has less influence than China at the WHO? The one who loudly praised the Chinese handling of the virus on Twitter in late January? Who ignored US Intelligence warnings about the virus? And now blames the WHO as part of a CYA compaign that includes blaming the governors for the US's stay-at-home response at a time when the Federal guidelines recommended stay-at-home? Right... nice to see all of that. Trump taking on corruption is the most laughable idea I've ever heard. It's like OJ Simpson saying he's going to find the murderer... Anyone who seriously believes that, I have a bridge to sell them. Trump is looking for someone to blame for his shortcomings and incompetence, as usual, and the WHO is just one of the latest victims. The WHO might be too heavily influenced by China. I have never disputed that. I have merely pointed out that Trump has withdrawn the US’s influence — if someone filled the void, how unexpected. Yeah, me neither. But here’s the art of the deal: Trump demands that @WHO “demonstrate independence from China.” Yet if he pulls U.S. funding, that will make the W.H.O. far more dependent on China. China is already rushing to fill the vacuum that America leaves behind. On Jan 12, @WHO got the virus genome from China and asked a German team to develop a test. The test was ready Jan 16. On Jan 30, @WHO declared a health emergency.
rb Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Nice to see the President taking on the corruption of The WHO: The President who didn't fill the US seat at the WHO, and who now claims the US has less influence than China at the WHO? The one who loudly praised the Chinese handling of the virus on Twitter in late January? Who ignored US Intelligence warnings about the virus? And now blames the WHO as part of a CYA compaign that includes blaming the governors for the US's stay-at-home response at a time when the Federal guidelines recommended stay-at-home? Right... nice to see all of that. Trump taking on corruption is the most laughable idea I've ever heard. It's like OJ Simpson saying he's going to find the murderer... Anyone who seriously believes that, I have a bridge to sell them. Trump is looking for someone to blame for his shortcomings and incompetence, as usual, and the WHO is just one of the latest victims. The WHO might be too heavily influenced by China. I have never disputed that. I have merely pointed out that Trump has withdrawn the US’s influence — if someone filled the void, how unexpected. This is pretty typical Trump supporter logic. Trump: Let's pull out of X international organization. China moves in. Trump Supporter: Let's pull out of Y organization. China is has too much influence, just look at X organization. China has already proven that they're willing to spend money to get influence. There must be a collective laughter somewhere in Beijing when they see China haters making their job easier. Now that is really dumb - let's give money to a failed organization so they can fail some more. The WHO corruption is completely obvious. Once again, your logic does not pass the smell test. We should have given NATO some more money instead of threatening defunding an organization that had a bunch of free riders underfunding it. Oh, shit ! That worked brilliantly for Trump - much to the embarrassment of idiot liberals. Here's a brilliant liberal idea for you: LET'S GIVE IRAN BILLIONS SO THEY WON'T BUILD A NUKE AND DESTABILIZE THE MIDDLE EAST. Oh, shit! We tried that brilliant idea too. You guys are full of laughs today ugh
cubsfan Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Trump ignored WHO’s warnings back in January and is now trying to blame WHO for it. As far as funding WHO is concerned, the US is $200,000,000 in arrears. And yet Cubs complains about NATO members not paying their share? Ironic isn't it. Remember those cult members that Trump said would still vote for him if he shot someone on 5th Ave? He was talking about Cubsfan. According to Cubs, Trump is a very stable genius who is always right. If trump said black was white, Cubs would agree and no amount of logic here would change his mind. Nice tweet by James Woods today: But sadly after three years of witch hunts it turns out the only actual intervention in our democracy was the cancer that was the Obama White House I know it's tough for you guys to accept that your takedowns of Trump are vanishing into thin air. Keep at it though guys...just makes you look like sore losers..
cwericb Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 And James Woods is an acknowledged expert on the subject how? What specifically are his qualifications. Oh, yes, he is a Trump supporter so he must be right.
Spekulatius Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 Trump ignored WHO’s warnings back in January and is now trying to blame WHO for it. As far as funding WHO is concerned, the US is $200,000,000 in arrears. And yet Cubs complains about NATO members not paying their share? Ironic isn't it. Remember those cult members that Trump said would still vote for him if he shot someone on 5th Ave? He was talking about Cubsfan. According to Cubs, Trump is a very stable genius who is always right. If trump said black was white, Cubs would agree and no amount of logic here would change his mind. It is pretty clear that the WHO made serious mistakes in this epidemic. It’s doesn’t seem the right solution for the US to leave the WHO alone as it doesn’t solve any problems. if the WHO is too beholden to China and it t well be, then the solution is to Reduce China’s influence on this very important organization. Why is this organization impotent? An epidemic is a world wide issue as we have seen and it doesn’t care about border, race, politics and skin color. Once it gets started, it’s going to go everywhere. The WHO did blinder, but also keep in mind That when you read what they’re wrote - “No evidence of human to human transmission” - it means exactly nothing! no evidence (yet) doesn’t mean that there is no human to human transmission, it just means that they hunt seen evidence that proof yet. The US he their own boots on the ground and regardless of what the WHO said, we had information already, the intelligence briefing mid January was proof of this. Keep in mind that this thread was started in late January l all based on public domain info. So the failure of the WHO is no excuse for the failure of the US to deal with this internally, especially since many countries have done this so much better l even though they had no better intel than the US. The failure of the WHO need to be investigated and will, other countries have asked for it, but killing the WHO and having no equivalent can’t be the solution. The WHO has helped to prevent Ebola and SARS from becoming an epidemic in the past and maybe others as well. It’s a pretty small insurance policy (~$560M is really a drop on the bucket compared to what we spent to fix this problem).
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