DooDiligence Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Trump and Biden are both unfit imo. Yep. Yep & yep. Our choices are abominable but I'd vote for a warm turd running against Trump.
Investor20 Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 That is not the context. That is the WHO statement on April 2nd : "There are few reports of laboratory-confirmed cases who are truly asymptomatic" Here is a pre-print journal article that helps give some more context on why that WHO quote is accurate: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-1274_article In this outbreak in SK, only 4% of COVID-positive patients were "truly asymptomatic". And they were only laboratory-confirmed as part of an aggressive test-and-trace regime. In most countries where testing is rationed, the number of laboratory-confirmed cases who are truly asymptomatic is probably a rounding error. Likely you are confusing presymptomatic with asymptomatic. Which is understandable since you are a layperson. But don't blame the experts for your lack of knowledge! IF CDC is still claiming only 4% are asymptomatic, they are completely wrong. Symptomatic patients were being aggressively tested in NY. Yet we got 10 fold infections in antibody test than in the so called "confirmed cases" suggesting a vast majority of asymptomatic infections. In NY pregnant women study 15% tested positive with 14% without symptoms (about 90% asymptomatic). In Boston homeless 146 out of 146 were without symptoms. In Iceland studies showed 50% asymptomatic when they randomly tested. In todays news April 24th. https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/us/2-asymptomatic-coronavirus-studies/index.html Two coronavirus studies released Friday -- one involving almost 2,000 people from Florida and the other from a Washington state nursing home -- came to the same conclusion: Many of the people who tested positive for the virus didn't know it they had it because they showed no symptoms. The findings add to a growing body of evidence suggesting that people who don't feel sick are contributing to the spread of the deadly virus that has swept the world. US is figuring this out now. Japan and Korea were worried about it latest by January 27th: Both countries have tightened border controls and quarantine checkpoints to screen passengers, although the fact that carriers of the virus may not show detectable symptoms has been a major cause of concern. https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/masks-out-as-japan-s-korea-report-new-cases That illustrates my complaint against the US experts and WHO. Why are they figuring out now which Japan & Korea knew at least as of January 27th?
Dalal.Holdings Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Trump and Biden are both unfit imo. Yep. Yep & yep. Our choices are abominable but I'd vote for a warm turd running against Trump. False equivalence fallacy (equivalent to "both sides are bad!") here... Anyone with a moral compass capable of putting something else above self interest would be preferable to what we have now. Biden and most other non-sociopathic humans have him beat by miles. Rather have a President who stutters than one who recommends bleach injections.
Investor20 Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Trump and Biden are both unfit imo. Yep. Yep & yep. Our choices are abominable but I'd vote for a warm turd running against Trump. False equivalence fallacy (equivalent to "both sides are bad!") here... Anyone with a moral compass capable of putting something else above self interest would be preferable to what we have now. Biden and most other non-sociopathic humans have him beat by miles. Rather have a President who stutters than one who recommends bleach injections. When did he recommend injecting bleach? Can you show me in the transcript? https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-nw-trump-white-house-sunlight-heat-fight-virus-20200424-7dnhtyxltvdazkp24mybuefmou-story.html
KCLarkin Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Symptomatic patients were being aggressively tested in NY. Yet we got 10 fold infections in antibody test than in the so called "confirmed cases" suggesting a vast majority of asymptomatic infections. I won't go through all the reasons why you are wrong, but this is a pretty blatant falsehood. They weren't even able to test all the dying and dead in NY, let alone test people who had mild symptoms.
Investor20 Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Trump and Biden are both unfit imo. Yep. Yep & yep. Our choices are abominable but I'd vote for a warm turd running against Trump. False equivalence fallacy (equivalent to "both sides are bad!") here... Anyone with a moral compass capable of putting something else above self interest would be preferable to what we have now. Biden and most other non-sociopathic humans have him beat by miles. Rather have a President who stutters than one who recommends bleach injections. When did he recommend injecting bleach? Can you show me in the transcript? https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-nw-trump-white-house-sunlight-heat-fight-virus-20200424-7dnhtyxltvdazkp24mybuefmou-story.html OK..I will answer the question myself. Here is the transcript. Bleach/disinfectant from President came up twice President: I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that. So you’re going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute, that’s pretty powerful." Second time when explicitly asked about injecting bleach: Q But I — just, can I ask about — the President mentioned the idea of cleaners, like bleach and isopropyl alcohol you mentioned. There’s no scenario that that could be injected into a person, is there? I mean — ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: No, I’m here to talk about the findings that we had in the study. We won’t do that within that lab and our lab. So — THE PRESIDENT: It wouldn’t be through injection. We’re talking about through almost a cleaning, sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work. But it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-31/
EliG Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 OK..I will answer the question myself. Here is the transcript. Bleach/disinfectant from President came up twice President: I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Funny how you failed to bold by injection inside.
DooDiligence Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 OK..I will answer the question myself. Here is the transcript. Bleach/disinfectant from President came up twice President: I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Funny how you failed to bold by injection inside. Typical of Trumpty's base. They own themselves & then ignore the fact.
Investor20 Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 OK..I will answer the question myself. Here is the transcript. Bleach/disinfectant from President came up twice President: I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Funny how you failed to bold by injection inside. Typical of Trumpty's base. They own themselves & then ignore the fact. Because that would be unfair. If I had to bold, I had to bold "by injection inside, or almost a cleaning" But then he clarified "It wouldn’t be through injection. " But then the overall statement was Trump was addressing the scientist. Trump turned to scientist and said " is there a way we can do something like that" It was a question to the scientst. My own impression after listening to the briefing was Trump was talking about killing the virus in lungs by use of UV light or a disinfectant by direct exposure in lungs. He was asking the scientist is there a way we can do something like that. He clarified upon the question from reporter.... It wouldn’t be through injection. We’re talking about through almost a cleaning, sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work. Treating lung cancers using optical fibers (photodynamic therapy) or Lung wash are established treatments. Does it work like that with antiviral and UV light in lungs? I dont know. But I feel its a lie to say he recommended bleach injection when he clearly said "It wouldn’t be through injection. We’re talking about through almost a cleaning" https://health.clevelandclinic.org/how-lung-washing-helps-patients-breathe-again-video/ How ‘Lung Washing’ Helps You Breathe Again
Investor20 Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Symptomatic patients were being aggressively tested in NY. Yet we got 10 fold infections in antibody test than in the so called "confirmed cases" suggesting a vast majority of asymptomatic infections. I won't go through all the reasons why you are wrong, but this is a pretty blatant falsehood. They weren't even able to test all the dying and dead in NY, let alone test people who had mild symptoms. Its not a falsehood. The NY antibody testing was done in stores and shops. Not many symptomatic people are going to shops and stores these days. Almost all the sample for NY antibody is asymptomatic volunteers. Even after selecting almost entirely healthy volunteers, they got 20% exposed to Covid.
RichardGibbons Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 False equivalence fallacy (equivalent to "both sides are bad!") here... Anyone with a moral compass capable of putting something else above self interest would be preferable to what we have now. Biden and most other non-sociopathic humans have him beat by miles. Rather have a President who stutters than one who recommends bleach injections. Also yep. Biden will have a team around him that will be effective even as he struggles mentally, while Trump doesn't.
RichardGibbons Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Funny how you failed to bold by injection inside. Because that would be unfair. If I had to bold, I had to bold "by injection inside, or almost a cleaning" But then he clarified "It wouldn’t be through injection. " But then the overall statement was Trump was addressing the scientist. Trump turned to scientist and said " is there a way we can do something like that" It was a question to the scientst. People say, "He suggested injecting disinfectant", you quote the part where he suggested injecting disinfectant, but bold a bunch of stuff and exclude the part where he suggests injecting it, and then, when called on it, pretend that somehow the part you didn't bold becomes irrelevant if you add more words. Come on. Aren't you above such silly games? Wow.
Investor20 Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Funny how you failed to bold by injection inside. Because that would be unfair. If I had to bold, I had to bold "by injection inside, or almost a cleaning" But then he clarified "It wouldn’t be through injection. " But then the overall statement was Trump was addressing the scientist. Trump turned to scientist and said " is there a way we can do something like that" It was a question to the scientst. People say, "He suggested injecting disinfectant", you quote the part where he suggested injecting disinfectant, but bold a bunch of stuff and exclude the part where he suggests injecting it, and then, when called on it, pretend that somehow the part you didn't bold becomes irrelevant if you add more words. Come on. Aren't you above such silly games? Wow. Richard, you should stop playing these games. He clearly clarified in same briefing "It wouldn’t be through injection. " To say he suggested injecting bleach when it is exactly opposite he said is pure lying.
RichardGibbons Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 You ought to be ashamed. (Actually, it's even worse than that, because by lying about what he said, you're missing the main point. Look what he said--even with his correction. That's the guy you're supporting so passionately, the guy who said that stuff. And keeps saying that sort of stuff.) And why the heck would you throw away your credibility on this forum trying to defend that hill? You seemed kind of reasonable before deciding that this is what you wanted to argue.
Investor20 Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 You ought to be ashamed. (Actually, it's even worse than that, because by lying about what he said, you're missing the main point. Look what he said--even with his correction. That's the guy you're supporting so passionately, the guy who said that stuff. And keeps saying that sort of stuff.) Richard. My quote of transcript "It wouldn’t be through injection. " was from original briefing on April 23. Its not a correction. The statement you are using to say he suggested injecting is "It wouldn’t be through injection". Transcript from April 23 when he supposedly suggested injecting bleach. Check for yourself. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-31/
LC Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 If the docs can beam sunshine into your lungs and fry COVID with UV light or inject Lysol gel into your windpipe and wipe out coronavirus in one minute, Trump was right! If not, well...”he was just asking a question!” The problem is Trump is 100% double talk. Zero responsibility as it were. Those who engage in and enable this behavior are spineless.
RichardGibbons Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Assuming you didn't lie about the transcript, these are his exact words: "I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning." You're arguing that he didn't say that it might be a good idea to inject a disinfectant. He did say it. It's very clear, even if he later regretted saying it a few minutes later. I'm baffled why you wouldn't just say, "Oops I was wrong. He did say it, though he later backpedaled."
sys Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 weird that some want to misquote the president to paint his words as irresponsible. he was clearly just suggesting we fill the lungs with chlorine gas.
Investor20 Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Assuming you didn't lie about the transcript, these are his exact words: "I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning." You're arguing that he didn't say that it might be a good idea to inject a disinfectant. He did say it. It's very clear, even if he later regretted saying it a few minutes later. I'm baffled why you wouldn't just say, "Oops I was wrong. He did say it, though he later backpedaled." Richard, again you are taking it out of contest. I listented to the whole briefing because it was interesting from heat, humidity and light effect on Covid. The scientist in his presentation had been using inject word a bit, for example the scientist said: "If you look at the fourth line, you inject summer — the sunlight into that. You inject UV rays into that. ". But they were not injecting into a living being. They were injecting into suspended virus in air. You can check by checking word "inject" in the transcript. And the president asked the scientist "And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs." I did not take it that it meant injecting into blood. Then a reporter asked clarification Q But I — just, can I ask about — the President mentioned the idea of cleaners, like bleach and isopropyl alcohol you mentioned. There’s no scenario that that could be injected into a person, is there? I mean — ..... THE PRESIDENT: It wouldn’t be through injection. We’re talking about through almost a cleaning, sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work. But it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object. So, when the reporter clarified is it injection into a person, the president said NO. To keep saying he suggested injecting bleach into a person after listening to the scientist presentation and question to scientist, the word inject has to be taken in context of scientist use - injecting into a drum of suspended virus in air. When asked about injecting into a person, the president said NO.
meiroy Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Investor20, Out of curiosity, how do you view Trump in general? How do you see his personality like? From your point of you, the way this person expresses himself is normal? Have you encountered people like that in your life? Thanks.
ukvalueinvestment Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Trump says stuff that, in my view, is incredibly dumb every day. Some of it is genuinely dumb and some of it he says for his audience. But what is equally dumb is people continuing to be shocked and outraged by it every day and talking about it. Trump is Trump. Nothing will change people's mind one way or another.
meiroy Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 Trump says stuff that, in my view, is incredibly dumb every day. Some of it is genuinely dumb and some of it he says for his audience. But what is equally dumb is people continuing to be shocked and outraged by it every day and talking about it. Trump is Trump. Nothing will change people's mind one way or another. Indeed the discussion should be more about his circle of enablers and what motivates them to support such an individual. I disagree, though, with the description of him as just dumb. It's far more than that.
Dalal.Holdings Posted April 25, 2020 Posted April 25, 2020 You ought to be ashamed. (Actually, it's even worse than that, because by lying about what he said, you're missing the main point. Look what he said--even with his correction. That's the guy you're supporting so passionately, the guy who said that stuff. And keeps saying that sort of stuff.) And why the heck would you throw away your credibility on this forum trying to defend that hill? You seemed kind of reasonable before deciding that this is what you wanted to argue. They work by drawing people into arguing with their nonsense. Let me help him out: “That guy on 5th Ave sort of had it coming anyway and Trump said afterwards that he didn’t really mean to shoot him—he was being sarcastic with the gun, so it’s not the big deal you guys are making it”. That’s the pathology we are dealing with.
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