Question For Those That Voted For Trump

[onyx1]

Buffett on immigration...but what does he know...not like he's given this much thought!  Cheers!

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffett-what-i-tell-people-who-are-anti-immigration-224409573.html

 

The headline should be: "Buffett attacks his self-created strawman."

 

I've never met a serious person who is against legal immigration.

 

Well, the new executive order on travel restrictions also includes green card holders for now.  So those that have already gone through the legal immigration vetting process are now being held at gates and borders.  Cheers!

 

"...for now." 

 

A temporary measure until vetting system is put in place.

 

Unfair you say?

 

Remember, Obama did the same with Iraq refugees in 2011.  Media outrage at the time = zero.

 

http://thefederalist.com/2015/11/18/the-obama-administration-stopped-processing-iraq-refugee-requests-for-6-months-in-2011/

 

Obama didn't ban green card holders, so your point is irrelevant.

 

Too bad this guy didn't have a green card.  From 2011:

 

"One Iraqi who had aided American troops was assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays, two U.S. officials said."

 

Media outrage then, zero.  Media today, hair-on-fire.

[Dalal.Holdings]

Too bad this guy didn't have a green card.  From 2011:

 

"One Iraqi who had aided American troops was assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays, two U.S. officials said."

 

Media outrage then, zero.  Media today, hair-on-fire.

 

Yes, the all powerful media is out to get you. Keep swallowing that White House propaganda + butthurt.

[onyx1]

Too bad this guy didn't have a green card.  From 2011:

 

"One Iraqi who had aided American troops was assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays, two U.S. officials said."

 

Media outrage then, zero.  Media today, hair-on-fire.

 

Yes, the all powerful media is out to get you. Keep swallowing that White House propaganda + butthurt.

 

That's the attitude that got you Trump.

[jeffmori7]

From my dangerous center left political view, I must admit that I don't really get USA. It is a country showing all the greatness and the bad in the human beings. But what I find sad actually is how Trump doesn't understand how his action will continue to isolate your country on the international scene. I remember traveling while Bush was president and already the USA reputation was damaged abroad. For many people, you are no longer a place they want to visit. And I don't get how being so hostile and bully with everybody else will help the economy, which is the only thing that many here seems to care about, no matter how economical growth is achieved. Good luck guys, I sincerely hope that this guy won't stay there for 4 years, he could destroy what's left from the most powerful country in the world.

[RichardGibbons]

If the cops can't OR WILL NOT protect the citizens now...what makes you think they will do it when/if guns are illegal?  I wish the police well, and support them in their (legitimate) job, but I will protect myself and family.  In my (family) experience, we have very little faith & trust in the police.  How is making guns illegal going to make them do a better job?  How is giving them more money going to accomplish that?  They get a TON OF MONEY right now, in my city, where their effectiveness is marginal.

 

Order is largely kept during the day, and you can't be flagrant in your law breaking...if you operate at night and are sneaky...it is wide open.  There are major theft rings operating with impunity.  Drug dealers operate almost openly...Don't speed though, you'll get a ticket!

 

In Detroit proper, things are even worse...

 

So no, no more centralized police power...power to the people.

 

It sounds like a cultural problem with Detroit police (or simply a perception you have of the world).  I obviously don't know much about the situation, so it's pretty hard to diagnose it.  But if people aren't doing their jobs, typically you'd fire them, be they police officers, judges, or politicians. 

 

And really, if you think your solution is the only real solution, you should attempt to get rid of the police force and justice system entirely, and just go with vigilante justice.  Why waste money on a system that isn't working?

[fareastwarriors]

Too bad this guy didn't have a green card.  From 2011:

 

"One Iraqi who had aided American troops was assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays, two U.S. officials said."

 

Media outrage then, zero.  Media today, hair-on-fire.

 

Yes, the all powerful media is out to get you. Keep swallowing that White House propaganda + butthurt.

 

That's the attitude that got you Trump.

 

Serious question - What about the green card holders?

 

Also where are the rich conservative billionaires? How come they don't buy/own some big newspapers or channels?

Why big media is always so liberal? Is the WSJ too liberal as well?

 

[Packer16]

The problem with the media is not the owners its the employees.  A large majority come from California or the the DC to Washington Corridor.  If more of them were from the Mid West, the South or the West outside the West Coast, they would not be surprised Trump won.  As a matter of fact HRC won more of the large city vote than Obama but what pushed Obama over the edge was the small & large towns & small cities.  HRC had little to no support there.  If you go outside Rochester just 10 to 15 minutes you saw so many Trump signs it was incredible.  Also I guy here made a home made Trump sign that a town said was out of code.  When you see stuff like that it tells you something. Trump identified with the working folks in these areas & HRC and the Dems did not, instead focused on the city coalition.  In Canada and France the city coalition can work as most of the population is there.  In the US you cannot. 

 

The media became a reflection of big city views where those who disagreed were mocked and made fun of.  Some in the media are reflecting on this & making incremental changes (NBC hired Megan Kelly and Greta Van Susstern as an example) but most are doubling down in city values.  There is nothing wrong with city values but there is something wrong when you think the answer is my way or the highway.  Add to that the power to force your views on others as Obama did later in his Presidency via executive orders & you build up resentment.  Trump is the non-city folks' avenger.  Trump has delivered for them from day 1 as the avenger and the media has helped him.  As an example look at the polling of Trump's acceptance speech.  Around 65% said it was good or excellent but the press covered it as thought it was a failure and most of them disagreed with it.  What does that say about the press' reflection of the way America feels?  Not a very good reflection.  Since most of the press is not from the non-city they have no clue about this & are only slowly catching on.  This BTW is similar with Brexit and will continue to confound city folk until they realize that mocking & dismissing versus trying to understand the non-city folks views is not very smart.  Historically, the strength of most liberals is acceptance and tolerance not mocking and intolerance.

 

Packer

[EliG]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-erratic-first-week-was-among-the-most-alarming-in-history/2017/01/27/c6405144-e4b9-11e6-a453-19ec4b3d09ba_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.0d1646c98509

 

In a meeting last week with The Post editorial board, Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah), chair of the House Oversight Committee, said he was weighing legislation to require presidents to undergo an independent medical examination, including for mental health. Chaffetz cautioned that he wasn’t “talking about some of the rhetoric that’s flying around” about Trump. Still, he said, “If you’re going to have your hands on the nuclear codes, you should probably know what kind of mental state you’re in.”

[Alekbaylee]

Buffett on immigration...but what does he know...not like he's given this much thought!  Cheers!

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffett-what-i-tell-people-who-are-anti-immigration-224409573.html

 

The headline should be: "Buffett attacks his self-created strawman."

 

I've never met a serious person who is against legal immigration.

 

Well, the new executive order on travel restrictions also includes green card holders for now.  So those that have already gone through the legal immigration vetting process are now being held at gates and borders.  Cheers!

 

But how is that possible? Isn't that unconstitutional? Can't imagine this happening here in Canada. Supreme Court would overrule any decision or decree which blatantly discriminate among citizens, creating de facto a two tier system.

[doc75]

Yes but obviously cities tend to be liberal and gun violence happens more in cities but alas, there is no correlation!

 

The correlation is obvious and was not being questioned.  Your original post suggested that this correlation is not only statistically significant, but that there is a causative relationship lurking here.  You'd also find quite a strong correlation between gun violence and public transit funding, but I doubt that riding the subway drives many people to murder.

 

But yea, keep punishing those who follow the rules. Tax those who work for a living to give to those who don't. Raise insurance premiums on younger people who are healthy to subsidize older people who aren't.

 

You are presenting these statements sarcastically, but I'd give a nod to both. Reasonable men may disagree.  You can think me a bit of a sucker, and I can think you a bit selfish.  History seems to indicate a gradual global migration toward helping the less fortunate. 

 

My personal view is that many people in the upper economic strata grant themselves far too much credit for their financial success.  I think it's fair to say that most (certainly not all) people in the top echelons were on a relatively privileged  trajectory from birth. I've had enough experience working with the other side to be convinced that "laziness" is pretty far down on the list of reasons people find themselves at the margins.  So I am morally/socially aligned with some transfers of wealth from the have's to the have-not's.  I also believe that such money is very likely to be recycled back into my local economy, and selfishly feel that my living conditions improve when the level of desperation around me is lessened.

 

The best is that there is not even really an attempt to justify these things from the people whom support them. Instead just some blanket buzz word gets thrown back at you; like "racist" or "alt-right", etc.

 

Really?  It strikes me that justifications are presented by both sides, but nobody is too interested in listening, possibly because all rational arguments get mutilated by hackneyed or hyperbolic/alarmist reporting. (Just look at this thread, let alone Twitter, CNN etc.)  So, instead of moving towards the middle, it seems we're tending toward oscillation at the extremes. It's divisive and dangerous.  And it's a feedback loop, with the instantaneity of modern media exacerbating the situation. Maybe I'm just becoming an old guy. I'm convinced that a media environment that features self-reinforcing news-feeds and celebrates lizard-brain oneupmanship over rational deliberation is doing us great harm.

 

Finally, I agree that there's an overuse of reactionary/buzzy words, and I particularly hate seeing "racist" being applied blindly, but it's hardly one-sided.  Buzz words and epithets are thrown around unsparingly by both sides.

[Dalal.Holdings]

A federal judge temporarily halted our moron-in-chief's executive order. Warning: POTUS butthurt meltdown imminent...

 

Dude overplayed his hand. He had the ability to accomplish a lot of things early in his presidency as most Presidents do if they play their cards right. Most presidents start their terms by trying to unite the country behind them so they can accomplish key points in their agenda. He, however, has succeeded in bitterly uniting his opposition against him in just a week. He could've avoided this whole immigration issue by letting green card holders in while still halting refugees (this bit of nuance probably lost on him since he's not a details guy when it comes to policy, hence the title moron-in-chief).

 

Guess this will be a wake up call to him that his powers can be checked. He could've instead tried to lower corporate taxes, bring back manuf jobs, etc etc but he goes down this stupid irrelevant path, now it won't be so easy...

[sys]

[Dalal.Holdings]

 

:D

 

Remember, it was Obama who wanted to "take our rights away". LOL

[Jurgis]

 

./support

[rukawa]

I find it strange that people are still debating US gun control when a simpler, fully constitutional, more enforceable and vastly superior policy is to just tax bullets.

 

Lets say $100 a bullet. Apply it to everyone except the military but including the police.

 

There are 300 million guns in the US. I believe I read somewhere the US bullet supply would last 3-4 years and I suspect the majority of that is held by gun enthusiasts who generally are responsible gun owners. They would almost certainly stock up in huge quantities at the hint of a tax.

 

On there other hand the people who are using guns to commit crimes are too poor to afford the tax. They also probably will not be the ones who will get most of the bullets in the hoarding prior to the tax both because bullets will be less affordable and because gun enthusiasts are better connected and more interested.

[Parsad]

I hate to harp on this subject, but if Trump is so detached from reality that he doesn’t understand that instituting a 20% tax on Mexican imports would make Americans, not Mexicans pay for his wall than how dumb is this guy?

 

it would allow trump to say that mexico is paying for it.  which, i think, is all that he cares about.

 

I think you will see some serious inflation either over the next four years, or in the ensuing years as a result of some of the policies that are going to be implemented.  Alot of cash is going to flow into assets over the next few years from reduced taxes, repatriation, etc.  Combine this with tariffs on imported goods, increasing national debt due to a lack of tax revenue and increased infrastructure expenditure, and you could see hyper-inflation at some point.  Cheers!

 

How does it result in inflation? How are Trumps policies different from Japan's. If inflation can be controlled through fiscal policy then why is the global economy stuck in the current funk.  Trumps policies will strengthen the USD but I fail to see how inflation occurs. Thoughts?

 

If corporate tax rates drop from 35% to 15% as he plans, where do you think that money is going to go? 

 

There is nearly $2T of offshore money...if he provides the one-time tax penalty of 10% and even half of that is repatriated back, where is it going to go? 

 

Currently, you have Ford, GM, Softbank and Carrier guaranteeing keeping jobs, adding jobs or investing capital into the U.S.  under nominal pressure...where is it going to go? 

 

You are going to have enormous amounts of new capital chasing the same assets, including institutions, pension funds, private equity firms, hedge funds and family offices that are already reaching for yield.  Combine that with increased debt from infrastructure spending and a reduction in corporate tax revenues...there is a reasonable chance you will see U.S. debt/GDP continue to increase. 

 

Massive amounts of capital chasing the same assets or businesses, combined with the U.S. supporting the dollar with higher rates as debt increases, means you could see substantial inflation long-term if tax revenues don't increase.  Cheers!

[Parsad]

Buffett on immigration...but what does he know...not like he's given this much thought!  Cheers!

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffett-what-i-tell-people-who-are-anti-immigration-224409573.html

 

The headline should be: "Buffett attacks his self-created strawman."

 

I've never met a serious person who is against legal immigration.

 

Well, the new executive order on travel restrictions also includes green card holders for now.  So those that have already gone through the legal immigration vetting process are now being held at gates and borders.  Cheers!

 

"...for now." 

 

A temporary measure until vetting system is put in place.

 

Unfair you say?

 

Remember, Obama did the same with Iraq refugees in 2011.  Media outrage at the time = zero.

 

http://thefederalist.com/2015/11/18/the-obama-administration-stopped-processing-iraq-refugee-requests-for-6-months-in-2011/

 

Obama didn't ban green card holders, so your point is irrelevant.

 

Too bad this guy didn't have a green card.  From 2011:

 

"One Iraqi who had aided American troops was assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays, two U.S. officials said."

 

Media outrage then, zero.  Media today, hair-on-fire.

 

And Trump's policies would have sped this up?  Cheers!

[Packer16]

Good points about inflation.  I agree there will be more inflation in certain limited goods (RE in property constrained markets) & securities (with the ERP at about 5% we have some room here).  Offsetting this are the on-going deflationary forces.  Given our ability to produce goods and services at low cost and in abundance any additional money spent on capital (physical or human) will cause more deflation.  Also more US debt/GDP is deflationary unless you plan on defaulting on it.  IMO I think this additional inflation will not in the aggregate create enough inflation to overcome the large deflationary forces at work.  We will go from deflation in the steady state to small inflation in the new state.  Some scenarios that could create inflation and push us to materially higher inflation: a major war, a major country goes communist, a major pandemic or the US defaults on its debt.

 

Packer

[bearprowler6]

We all need to calm down and take a deep breath.

 

What we are experiencing is the decline of the American empire --- the decline of its importance on the world stage. This happens to all great empires eventually. Nonetheless it is painful to watch.

 

In the early stages the decline proceeds somewhat slowly and therefore is largely ignored by most observers. The decline speeds up as time passes and when this happens denial is no longer an option. Many try to cling to the glory days of the past but the decline continues and cannot be stopped no matter who is in power or what policies are put into place.

 

In order to make this as easy as possible on my American friends I say build the southern wall with Mexico. Let’s begin construction of a northern wall with Canada as well (of course the US will pay for this one). Close other borders points---airports and ports as well.

 

Let the rot from within accelerate and let the implosion of a once great American society come to its final inevitable conclusion.

 

Sad to watch for sure but there is no way to stop it.

 

[Dalal.Holdings]

We all need to calm down and take a deep breath.

 

What we are experiencing is the decline of the American empire --- the decline of its importance on the world stage. This happens to all great empires eventually. Nonetheless it is painful to watch.

 

In the early stages the decline proceeds somewhat slowly and therefore is largely ignored by most observers. The decline speeds up as time passes and when this happens denial is no longer an option. Many try to cling to the glory days of the past but the decline continues and cannot be stopped no matter who is in power or what policies are put into place.

 

In order to make this as easy as possible on my American friends I say build the southern wall with Mexico. Let’s begin construction of a northern wall with Canada as well (of course the US will pay for this one). Close other borders points---airports and ports as well.

 

Let the rot from within accelerate and let the implosion of a once great American society come to its final inevitable conclusion.

 

Sad to watch for sure but there is no way to stop it.

 

Disagree. The problem with America is not an inevitable decline, but a decline in certain domains (ie. manufacturing). We still dominate in many other areas (i.e. tech). Many people (particularly those in the middle of the country and the uneducated) were hurt by the shift away from manufacturing. The question is if those jobs can be brought back. We (like every other nation) will always have people who do not pursue higher education and there should be opportunities for them. The Germans seem to do a nice job with that. I personally would support moves by the current admin to bring those jobs back in some form (i.e. Tesla and SpaceX are great examples of American manuf brilliance and one reason why Trump seems to respect Elon Musk).

 

The fear with the current administration is creating self-inflicted problems for the United States. An example is the immigration order which we know would have no real effect at stopping terrorism (and may make things worse), but is largely done for show to some of Trump's/Bannon's erratic base. What was the point of putting those 7 countries and excluding the Saudis? What was the point of excluding green card holders? Were they just the countries where Trump Hotels don't have branches? Such actions are just for show to the moronic base, but they harm America's standing and in the end will make us less safe, not more.

[DTEJD1997]

The problem with the media is not the owners its the employees.  A large majority come from California or the the DC to Washington Corridor.  If more of them were from the Mid West, the South or the West outside the West Coast, they would not be surprised Trump won.  As a matter of fact HRC won more of the large city vote than Obama but what pushed Obama over the edge was the small & large towns & small cities.  HRC had little to no support there.  If you go outside Rochester just 10 to 15 minutes you saw so many Trump signs it was incredible.  Also I guy here made a home made Trump sign that a town said was out of code.  When you see stuff like that it tells you something. Trump identified with the working folks in these areas & HRC and the Dems did not, instead focused on the city coalition.  In Canada and France the city coalition can work as most of the population is there.  In the US you cannot. 

 

The media became a reflection of big city views where those who disagreed were mocked and made fun of.  Some in the media are reflecting on this & making incremental changes (NBC hired Megan Kelly and Greta Van Susstern as an example) but most are doubling down in city values.  There is nothing wrong with city values but there is something wrong when you think the answer is my way or the highway.  Add to that the power to force your views on others as Obama did later in his Presidency via executive orders & you build up resentment.  Trump is the non-city folks' avenger.  Trump has delivered for them from day 1 as the avenger and the media has helped him.  As an example look at the polling of Trump's acceptance speech.  Around 65% said it was good or excellent but the press covered it as thought it was a failure and most of them disagreed with it.  What does that say about the press' reflection of the way America feels?  Not a very good reflection.  Since most of the press is not from the non-city they have no clue about this & are only slowly catching on.  This BTW is similar with Brexit and will continue to confound city folk until they realize that mocking & dismissing versus trying to understand the non-city folks views is not very smart.  Historically, the strength of most liberals is acceptance and tolerance not mocking and intolerance.

 

Packer

 

Packer,...

 

You see, I was looking on YouTube all year long at the hearts and minds of the "real" people,... the heartland/ flyover nation,...and sensed, that remarkable history will be made. I was silently cheering, go, go, he will make it over the finishing line first. I kept politely silent, realizing most people in media have no clue about the underlying dynamics.

 

 

 

 

Counting Hillary and Trump Yard Signs in PA

 

 

-----

 

Counting Hillary and Trump Yard Signs in PA - Volume 2

 

 

There was a similar thing going on here in Michigan.  A couple of weeks before the election, I was in a prosperous suburb of Detroit.  At a MAJOR intersection, there were a couple of hundred Trump supporters waving signs, waving to traffic, and walking through the intersection (when allowed by traffic light) carrying their signs.  Maybe 2/3 of these supporters were women.  They largely looked like "real" women from that area and not paid or bused in demonstrators.  These people were enthusiastic, energetic, and looked they wanted to be there.

 

Conversely, the only spontaneous demonstration that I saw for Hillary was a couple of "cat ladies" dejectedly waving Hillary banners.  They did not look enthusiastic.  They too were at a major intersection in a different part of town.  Not very effective.

 

In the democrat primary, Bernie Sanders beat Hillary in Michigan.  It was one of the largest political upsets in history.  Going into the primary, the "media" had Hillary over Bernie by 20+ points.

 

So here in Michigan, the "media" simply had absolutely no idea what they were talking about, both with Bernie & Trump.  Not even close...

[Dalal.Holdings]

Oops, looks like our POTUS doesn't always "know how to win": White House walks back on green card portion of executive order (which was pushed by Steve Bannon).

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/us/politics/white-house-official-in-reversal-says-green-card-holders-wont-be-barred.html

 

This whole thing reeks of poor execution and underlying incompetence.

[turar]

What we are experiencing is the decline of the American empire --- the decline of its importance on the world stage. This happens to all great empires eventually. Nonetheless it is painful to watch.

 

 

If you look at all previous empires in recent centuries, they're still around and most of them became regular old first and more rarely second world countries -- UK, Japan, Spain, France, Turkey, etc. The big problem though, at least historically, is that the big shift from them being empires to no longer being empires required major wars to be fought out.

[Gregmal]

Well, DT is already ruining our lives. In response to his order, Iran has implemented their own sanctions including travel bans for American citizens. Shucks. Guess I'm going to have to change my vacation plans...

[LC]

National Security Council appointee:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/38787241