EliG Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Friday night: green card holders are included in the Muslim Ban. Sunday night: a complete reversal... http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/316790-kelly-entry-of-lawful-permanent-residents-is-in-the-national Quality of governance: banana republic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Berkshiremystery, Thanks for the guy link. He makes some good points. EliG, Obamacare wasn`t without it`s implementation problems either you will recall. Did you trash the entire obama admin for that and will you be good with trump once the ban implementations are handled more smoothly. Is that really the problem you see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliG Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 EliG, Obamacare wasn`t without it`s implementation problems either you will recall. Did you trash the entire obama admin for that and will you be good with trump once the ban implementations are handled more smoothly. Is that really the problem you see here. False equivalency. Obamacare is several orders of magnitude more complex than a temporary travel ban. Green card holders are legal permanent residents who have the right to be protected by all laws of the United States. Their inclusion in the ban is a symptom of ideological extremism and incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 EliG, Obamacare wasn`t without it`s implementation problems either you will recall. Did you trash the entire obama admin for that and will you be good with trump once the ban implementations are handled more smoothly. Is that really the problem you see here. False equivalency. Obamacare is several orders of magnitude more complex than a temporary travel ban. Green card holders are legal permanent residents who have the right to be protected by all laws of the United States. Their inclusion in the ban is a symptom of ideological extremism and incompetence. President-ing is hard. Why didn't anybody warn Trump. *Sniff* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardGibbons Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Friday night: green card holders are included in the Muslim Ban. Sunday night: a complete reversal... http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/316790-kelly-entry-of-lawful-permanent-residents-is-in-the-national Quality of governance: banana republic I respect Trump for this change today. He's not a thoughtful guy, so everyone should expect many mistakes from him in one of the most complicated jobs in the world. But in this case, he could have remained rigid and let the courts fight about it for months. Instead, he recognized the mistake and wasn't to proud to correct it. That's much more than I expected from him. Well done, Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Friday night: green card holders are included in the Muslim Ban. Sunday night: a complete reversal... http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/316790-kelly-entry-of-lawful-permanent-residents-is-in-the-national Quality of governance: banana republic I respect Trump for this change today. He's not a thoughtful guy, so everyone should expect many mistakes from him in one of the most complicated jobs in the world. But in this case, he could have remained rigid and let the courts fight about it for months. Instead, he recognized the mistake and wasn't to proud to correct it. That's much more than I expected from him. Well done, Trump. Is this the soft bigotry of low expectations at work? This sort of stuff would be commendable when it comes from a 7 year old learning how to deal with life. But from a 70 year old President of the United States? Now it's commendable that he figured out on the 3rd try that he should let Permanent Residents of the United States into the United States? Isn't the bar set a little too low? It's right in the name. Soft bigotry of low expectations indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardGibbons Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Soft bigotry of low expectations indeed. Absolutely. Nevertheless, this is big in my mind. Pretty well everyone who has watched the guy campaign should expect extreme, thoughtless actions and gross incompetence out of Trump. However, incompetence combined with an unwillingness to correct obvious mistakes is far worse than mere incompetence. And, before this, it seemed much more likely that we'd be in the former scenario than the latter. Now, I have some hope that it might be the latter. So, I wouldn't dispute that anyone qualified to be President would've gotten this basic thing right in the first place. Nevertheless, I think it's admirable to correct this obvious mistake rather than obstinately refusing to correct it out of pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Friday night: green card holders are included in the Muslim Ban. Sunday night: a complete reversal... http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/316790-kelly-entry-of-lawful-permanent-residents-is-in-the-national Quality of governance: banana republic I respect Trump for this change today. He's not a thoughtful guy, so everyone should expect many mistakes from him in one of the most complicated jobs in the world. But in this case, he could have remained rigid and let the courts fight about it for months. Instead, he recognized the mistake and wasn't to proud to correct it. That's much more than I expected from him. Well done, Trump. Just a few hours earlier, Spicer was not apologetic about this at all on "Meet the Press". Whether it's a Liberal leader like Obama or a right-wing conservative like Trump...such ineptitude in how they planned and executed this whole thing simply was stupid! When you are blind because of your ideology (Liberal or Conservative) you are going to make stupid decisions. This was simply just an idiotic, xenophobic idea, supported by very poor execution. Not some grand observance that they mistakenly included "green card holders". The original intent was obviously to include them. Early on, I viewed this administration as something akin to the "Abbott & Costello" of politics and governance. Funny, very disrespectful, but harmless to the U.S. and world at large. Might even create some positive changes in business. I was wrong! When you get this type of blind faith in a world view, combined with executive choices with unintended consequences, you have a very dangerous man. The leash gets shorter and shorter every day! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uccmal Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Friday night: green card holders are included in the Muslim Ban. Sunday night: a complete reversal... http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/316790-kelly-entry-of-lawful-permanent-residents-is-in-the-national Quality of governance: banana republic I respect Trump for this change today. He's not a thoughtful guy, so everyone should expect many mistakes from him in one of the most complicated jobs in the world. But in this case, he could have remained rigid and let the courts fight about it for months. Instead, he recognized the mistake and wasn't to proud to correct it. That's much more than I expected from him. Well done, Trump. Just a few hours earlier, Spicer was not apologetic about this at all on "Meet the Press". Whether it's a Liberal leader like Obama or a right-wing conservative like Trump...such ineptitude in how they planned and executed this whole thing simply was stupid! When you are blind because of your ideology (Liberal or Conservative) you are going to make stupid decisions. This was simply just an idiotic, xenophobic idea, supported by very poor execution. Not some grand observance that they mistakenly included "green card holders". The original intent was obviously to include them. Early on, I viewed this administration as something akin to the "Abbott & Costello" of politics and governance. Funny, very disrespectful, but harmless to the U.S. and world at large. Might even create some positive changes in business. I was wrong! When you get this type of blind faith in a world view, combined with executive choices with unintended consequences, you have a very dangerous man. The leash gets shorter and shorter every day! Cheers! Well said. Its going to get realy hard for US, and non resident multinationals, to do business in this environment. The tech. companies have been calling back vulnerable workers. That kind of thing costs money, and impedes productivity. If anyone was looking for a catalyst to cause a recession and market crash, this leadership would be it. Hardly a black swan as we all knew this was a possible outcome. Companies that cant plan due to the erratic reactionary politics will stop investing, or invest elsewhere. The saving grace is that so far they havent attacked the bureaucracy, which provides some continuity and stability. But its only a matter of time, I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 He had tons of executive experience running "successful" businesses though. He talked about how he's "always winning" and surrounds himself with the "best people" like Steve Bannon on the national security council (in lieu of the joint chiefs and director of intelligence). Who would've expected such an epic fail so soon!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwericb Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 The Donald’s biggest problem is that he was born with a golden spoon in his mouth with a large helping of entitlement. Because of that, it seems that DT has never had to cope with the consequences of his bad decisions. When he made bad decisions in business, he just walked away and let the businesses go under. It will be the consequences of, and the retaliations for those bad decisions that will lead to his undoing. He is way in over his head and probably will never learn that a president can’t shoot from the hip as one may do in private business and then just walk away from your failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onyx1 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Scott Adams teaches you about Trump's latest masterstroke, immigration. "[Trump]...just solved his biggest problem with immigration and you didn’t notice." http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156532225711/the-persuasion-filter-and-immigration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james22 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I don't want this to get into a huge political discussion and will delete all posts that degenerate into one. But I just wanted to get an intellectually honest answer from anyone who voted for Trump: Questions: - Does it concern you that the very first press conference by the President's team was centered on "crowd size for the inauguration" instead of anything important? - Does it concern you that the team has now said that they won't release the tax returns regardless if the audit is completed? As investors, we all respect and want transparency through disclosure, so is this not antithetical to our intellectual frameworks as investors? Cheers! Nope, nope. I didn't vote for Trump because I thought he was an avatar of conservative values; I voted for fucking revenge. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawks Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 cwericb +1 Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCG Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Guiliani threw Trump under the bus on Fox News: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-ban-giuliani-says-and-ordered-a-commission-to-do-it-legally/?utm_term=.3c02ae8c4724 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharperDingaan Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Friday night: green card holders are included in the Muslim Ban. Sunday night: a complete reversal... http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/316790-kelly-entry-of-lawful-permanent-residents-is-in-the-national Quality of governance: banana republic I respect Trump for this change today. He's not a thoughtful guy, so everyone should expect many mistakes from him in one of the most complicated jobs in the world. But in this case, he could have remained rigid and let the courts fight about it for months. Instead, he recognized the mistake and wasn't to proud to correct it. That's much more than I expected from him. Well done, Trump. Just a few hours earlier, Spicer was not apologetic about this at all on "Meet the Press". Whether it's a Liberal leader like Obama or a right-wing conservative like Trump...such ineptitude in how they planned and executed this whole thing simply was stupid! When you are blind because of your ideology (Liberal or Conservative) you are going to make stupid decisions. This was simply just an idiotic, xenophobic idea, supported by very poor execution. Not some grand observance that they mistakenly included "green card holders". The original intent was obviously to include them. Early on, I viewed this administration as something akin to the "Abbott & Costello" of politics and governance. Funny, very disrespectful, but harmless to the U.S. and world at large. Might even create some positive changes in business. I was wrong! When you get this type of blind faith in a world view, combined with executive choices with unintended consequences, you have a very dangerous man. The leash gets shorter and shorter every day! Cheers! Well said. Its going to get realy hard for US, and non resident multinationals, to do business in this environment. The tech. companies have been calling back vulnerable workers. That kind of thing costs money, and impedes productivity. If anyone was looking for a catalyst to cause a recession and market crash, this leadership would be it. Hardly a black swan as we all knew this was a possible outcome. Companies that cant plan due to the erratic reactionary politics will stop investing, or invest elsewhere. The saving grace is that so far they havent attacked the bureaucracy, which provides some continuity and stability. But its only a matter of time, I suspect. +1 It may seem a little weird, but this is probably THE best thing that could have happened. This is where the world aggressively goes after both Silicon Valley, and Hollywood - and temporarily moves it North. For Canada its nothing but up, & in a very big way. This was Trumps own incompetence; he shot from the hip, lost, & is going to be forced to wear it. The brand value of all those Apprentice shows has now been destroyed - you are fired, now just causes laughter, every time it appears. And nobody to fire ... because he very publicly did it himself, without consulting anybody. Even the Pope has come out against him. In the commercial world, you would just get fired with a good package. In the political world you either quit, get impeached, eaten alive, or worse. Zero upside. Every night, every comedy show on the planet lampooning the Donald, and all of them getting progressively more ambitious. Against someone with apparently very thin and wrinkly skin SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawks Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 SD +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 In a banana republic, aren't people fighting to get OUT not IN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vox Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Matt Levine's latest missive is worth reading: "I think sometimes about how Anthony Scaramucci compared the Department of Labor's fiduciary rule to Dred Scott, the 1857 U.S. Supreme Court decision protecting slavery and ruling that African-Americans can't be citizens. "The left-leaning Department of Labor has made a decision to discriminate against a class of people who they deem to be adding no value,” said Scaramucci, a fund-of-funds marketer who was also an adviser and spokesman for Donald Trump's campaign. And he said that, if Trump were elected, he'd repeal the fiduciary rule. Trump, meanwhile, never said that. Instead he promised to ban Muslims from traveling to the United States. Scaramucci tried not to think about this: "I’ll make a prediction right now that he will not put a ban on Muslims coming into America," he once told Gawker. Did he believe that? Or did he think that the Department of Labor rule requiring financial advisers to put their customers' interests ahead of their own is the great moral evil of our time, comparable to slavery, and that a ban on Muslim immigration was an acceptable trade-off to end that evil? Now Trump has his Muslim ban, sort of. On Friday -- Holocaust Remembrance Day -- Trump issued an executive order banning people from seven Muslim-majority countries from traveling to the U.S. The ban covered U.S. lawful permanent residents who have spent years following the law and building lives here, interpreters who heroically helped the U.S. military, children of U.S. citizens, dissidents who fought hostile regimes, scientific researchers, Syrian Christians, British Olympians, and endangered refugee children who were carefully vetted to be allowed into the U.S. But you know what Trump hasn't done yet? Repeal the fiduciary rule! Or even talk about it. Its future remains uncertain, and while there is a good chance that it will eventually be repealed, big brokerages are moving to implement its changes now anyway. This is a widespread pattern. Many people in the business and financial and technology communities listened to what Trump said, and cheerily assumed he'd do something completely different. Sure he talked about restricting trade and banning Muslim immigrants, but what they heard was that he'd enact "sensible immigration policy" and pro-growth trade agreements, reduce taxes, cut back regulation and generally improve conditions for business. As I said in November: Peter Thiel and others said that Trump should be taken "seriously but not literally." Taking Trump literally means believing that he'll do what he says. Taking him seriously means believing that he'll do what you want. And what has happened so far? Immigration bans (with more to come), abandoned trade agreements, "alternative facts," unprompted promises to bring back torture. And what has not happened so far? Tax policy is a complete mystery, with an unclear and walked-back promise to impose a border tax. Health-care policy is even more mysterious. Trump has made vague promises to cut regulations by 75 percent, but his specific regulatory focus seems to be on increasing penalties on companies that move operations abroad. Everything Trump literally said is coming literally true; everything the serious people heard remains an unserious hope. Businesses may eventually get the tax and regulatory reform they wanted, but it's not a priority. The technology industry, and some others, are beginning to figure this out: Trump has "had this extraordinary honeymoon where Wall Street has kind of discounted all the negative aspects," Richard Fenning, the CEO of consultancy Control Risks, told Bloomberg Television. As companies react to the migrant ban, "perhaps that honeymoon is starting to be over," he said. More than that, though. One upshot of Trump's executive order is that United States lawful permanent residents, who have jumped through years of hoops to comply with the intricate immigration rules enshrined in U.S. law, are no longer protected by that law. They can be deported at the whim of the President, or his advisers, or a Border Patrol agent. (The order originally barred lawful permanent residents, though after some confusion, now it will not, unless the Secretary of Homeland Security wants it to. On the other hand, soon it may apply to citizens.) The nation of laws that they immigrated to is gone, replaced by a nation of arbitrary rule. If the president can, without consulting the courts or Congress, banish U.S. lawful permanent residents, then he can do anything. If there is no rule of law for some people, there is no rule of law for anyone. The reason the U.S. is a good place to do business is that, for the last 228 years, it has built a firm foundation on the rule of law. It almost undid that in a weekend. That's bad for business." https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-30/immigration-orders-and-odd-tenders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwericb Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Donald is making poorly thought through decisions, with no concern for consequences. In business and in life he could simply walk away from those poor decisions. The leader of a country does not have that luxury. “Every night, every comedy show on the planet lampooning the Donald, and all of them getting progressively more ambitious.” DT is a narcissist. Watch as this develops into paranoia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc75 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Scott Adams teaches you about Trump's latest masterstroke, immigration. http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156532225711/the-persuasion-filter-and-immigration This was a good read. I've looked back over my adult life and now see that many of the things I hitherto viewed as "big mistakes" were really instances of me being a master negotiator. I'm going to call Tony Schwartz and see if he'd be interested in another ghostwriting gig. I don't support Trump but I respect that there are a lot of intelligent people who do. I simply fail to see how his supporters continue to pretend that his mistakes are actually "masterstrokes" of strategy. He is an intentionally ill-informed contrarian who makes decisions quickly and without much detailed analysis. This leads to big mistakes and they should be viewed as such, however good the intentions may be. Incidentally: Whenever I imagine Steve Bannon whispering in Trump's ear I think of Wormtongue from Lord of the Rings. Which begs the question.... who is Saruman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhdousa Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I don't want this to get into a huge political discussion and will delete all posts that degenerate into one. Anyone know if this shitshow thread qualifies as a huge political discussion yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 It's easy to walk away from a mess created while running a limited liability company, but the country not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopheles Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 This "masterstroke" idea reminds me of the SHLD investor cult following of Eddie Lampert. His decisions only appear of poor quality, he's clearly a master investor/negotiator so there is much more to it than meets the eye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 He's got "masterstrokes" in the sense that he uses smoke and mirrors to deflect blame from himself. Case in point: saying that the chaos this weekend was due to "Delta airlines glitch" and not incompetence from his White House. The thing is that the only people he fools are his diehard supporters (i.e. The Dilbert cartoonist who thinks he has it all figured out) who reinforce the notion in their heads that he is a genius. There's definitely some of investing lessons that can be drawn from this when it comes to shady (usually penny stock) management and bagholders' blindness. The lies grow and powerfully allow management to manipulate those shareholders. Anyone who doesn't buy the lie is a traitorous "short" of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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