Parsad Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 2 hours ago, CassiusKing1 said: Haslam has always been a pill popping, alcoholic, train wreck. Hard to not know what you're dealing with here. Buffett, needs to back out of the entire deal, give Haslam his company back and then WEB can go BUY Bucee's! LOL. Yeah, Bucee's is one we want, alongside In & Out and Chik-Fil-A! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuhndan Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 Well, it wouldn’t be the first time they have done something like this. As a long suffering Browns fan, I would be really happy if they swapped Pilot for the Browns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCR Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Well, this countersuit against the Haslams begins to provide some additional color on actions that might otherwise seem out of character for the culture playbook at BRK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigarbutt Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 ^Filed yesterday under point 35: "Pilot has forfeited any entitlement to the relief it seeks by engaging in misconduct in relation to the very matter in controversy on its claims, namely, the value of its Put Option in 2024." There has been irreparable damage under way that needs concurrent legal treatment. There are still a few pieces of the puzzle missing and some lingering open questions but Can't You Smell That Smell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 5 hours ago, Cigarbutt said: ... There are still a few pieces of the puzzle missing and some lingering open questions but Can't You Smell That Smell? [9:20 thursday morning here.] <*sniffing*> Yeah, it smells fishy! -Not ordinary breakfast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfp Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 https://www.newsday.com/business/Warren-Buffett-Haslam-Pilot-bribery-Berkshire-Hathaway-h85840 "Haslam family refutes allegation..." https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-set-rule-berkshire-hathaway-request-speedy-trial-over-pilot-unit-2023-11-30/ "Judge will rule by tomorrow on concurrent trial.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepydragon Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 why is BRK down today? Is it because the Haslam news or in sympathy of Mr. Munger, or is it some news I missed? Seems strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munger_Disciple Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, sleepydragon said: why is BRK down today? Is it because the Haslam news or in sympathy of Mr. Munger, or is it some news I missed? Seems strange. The only thing I can think of is all the rates other than T-bills have gone down a lot recently and also today. So Mr. Market fears the potential loss of income for Berkshire on the cash hoard of $157B going forward. Also, the judge is set to rule today on the issue of concurrent trial related to the Haslam case. But I agree it is a bit strange. Edited December 1, 2023 by Munger_Disciple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepydragon Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, Munger_Disciple said: The thing I can think of is all the rates other than T-bills have gone down a lot recently and also today. So Mr. Market fears the potential loss of income for Berkshire on the cash hoard of $157B going forward. Also, the judge is set to rule today on the issue of concurrent trial related to the Haslam case. But I agree it is a bit strange. the rate could be the reason.. Other insurance stocks like MRK/Fairfax/WRB is down or barely positive today too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfp Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Who ever knows but my guess would be that the major indices are being pulled higher on short covering capitulation as the S&P500 threatens to make a new high for the year and Berkshire isn't really a stock that gets a lot of short sellers. I doubt the Haslam stuff or a potential OXY financing deal has much to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterofnone Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 19 minutes ago, gfp said: Who ever knows but my guess would be that the major indices are being pulled higher on short covering capitulation as the S&P500 threatens to make a new high for the year and Berkshire isn't really a stock that gets a lot of short sellers. I doubt the Haslam stuff or a potential OXY financing deal has much to do with it. gfp seems correct again. (He usually is.) The companies I own which have had significant short interest have all risen substantially this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crs223 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 On 11/29/2023 at 1:47 PM, Parsad said: Yeah, Bucee's is one we want, alongside In & Out and Chik-Fil-A! Cheers! ... and IKEA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizaro86 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 4 hours ago, crs223 said: ... and IKEA If we're adding Scandinavian private firms I'd much prefer Lego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigarbutt Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 Judge offers Berkshire possible speedy trial over Pilot dispute | Reuters Way to go (opinion) and now is a time for a 'negotiated' settlement. From a noob's scan point of view, Honorable Judge Zurn is a balanced, rational and fair judge. So two opposing views: -BRK's use of pushdown accounting is questionable -Minority holders' behavior is perhaps less than honorable Conclusion (opinion): the negotiated settlement should be close to the 'fair' value determined by pushdown accounting. Unknown: the price Mr. Buffett is willing to pay to put this noise 'issue' behind him and away from public eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 On 11/29/2023 at 4:47 PM, Parsad said: Yeah, Bucee's is one we want, alongside In & Out and Chik-Fil-A! Cheers! This is the one we want. Chick-fil-A, Buc-ee's, Hobby Lobby Merge To Form Most Popular Store Of All Time https://babylonbee.com/news/chick-fil-a-buc-ees-hobby-lobby-merge-to-form-most-popular-store-of-all-time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfp Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) Some might be interested in reading Berkshire's counter claim in its original form instead of relying on press accounts. Attached here as a pdf counterclaim.pdf Quote Berkshire and the Individual Defendants admit that Greg Abel informed James Haslam III that Berkshire will address Pilot’s position on the calculation of the Put 26 Right price in the context of the dispute resolution procedures provided for in the Investor Rights Agreement when Pilot exercises its Put Right Quote Berkshire and the Individual Defendants admit that the Investor Rights Agreement provides for the resolution procedure regarding disputes concerning the Put Right price, which procedure Plaintiff seems intent on avoiding. Quote In a telephone call with Warren Buffett on October 13, 2023, James Haslam II sought Buffett’s agreement with the Haslam family’s position concerning pushdown accounting and its effect on the Put Right price. In response, Warren Buffett said that he could not in any way discuss accounting, that 29 Berkshire complies with contracts, and, when and if the Haslam family decided to exit, Berkshire would do exactly what the contract says. Haslam II wrote Buffett on October 18, 2023 and misleadingly sought to “confirm” that Berkshire would not use pushdown accounting in connection with an exercise by the Haslams of the Put Right. Buffett wrote back the same day and set the record straight. Edited December 5, 2023 by gfp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfp Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) I'll put the original Haslam suit against Berkshire / Abel here as well (attached) pilotvberkshire.pdf Quote After Berkshire’s Chairman, Warren Buffett, informed the elder Haslam in an October 13, 2023 phone call that Berkshire would abide by the LLC Agreement, the elder Haslam sent Buffett a letter seeking confirmation that Berkshire would not apply pushdown accounting in calculating the value of Pilot’s Put Right. Buffett refused to provide a straight answer to Haslam’s simple question. Instead, Buffett repeated: “I said that Berkshire will comply with the terms of the contract. That’s exactly what will happen,” and that “when and if the Haslam family decides to exit, we will do exactly what the contract says.” Edited December 5, 2023 by gfp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Thanks, @gfp, Geez, what a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfp Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 So my take on this is that the Haslams sued Berkshire when no harm had been done to them because they want to know the exact number they will receive if they exercise their put contract before they commit to exercising it. Berkshire's 10-Q shows the redeemable interest at approximately the correct amount the Haslam's want and they can just use that figure to decide when to Put the remaining 20% to BRK. The LLC agreement and the investor rights agreement and associated dispute resolution procedures govern any disagreements over the calculation of the payment Haslams would receive for their remaining 20%. In bringing this un-needed lawsuit they have poked the bear and are now likely in trouble for what Berkshire has discovered. The Haslams messed up here as previously Berkshire was just annoyed that they had been gamed by the incentives imbedded in their contract by counterparts less honorable than themselves. Berkshire is now "more than annoyed." The Haslams were not going to be screwed over by BRK on their final payment. They just wanted PTC to keep two sets of books so they could know the exact figure the formula spit out before they made their decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfp Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) As I mentioned on another board previously - Haslam fully admits that he incentivized his top executives to game the 2022 EBIT to maximize the price Berkshire would pay for their early 2022 equity purchase. They called it "Special Distribution Growth Units" under their "Growth Partners Plan." A bunch of decisions resulting in maximized reported EBIT to feed into their formula and then payment of cash bonuses - "Special Distribution" awards based on the price Berkshire was forced to pay. These types of short term decisions at the expense of both Berkshire and PTC's long term profitability are why Berkshire was so annoyed to begin with and immediately fired the CEO and CFO and exited several newer lines of business. Quote Haslam said that, assuming Pilot exercised its Put Option in 2024, he would reward the assembled executives with large, one-time bonuses. Specifically, Haslam said that he would reward them in the same manner that they had been rewarded upon the 2023 Sale pursuant to PTC’s then-existing bonus program, known as the Growth Partners Plan (“GPP”). Under the GPP, as discussed in more detail below, executives received one-time “Special Distribution” awards upon the 2023 Sale calculated based on PTC’s 2022 EBIT. The Haslam family, which controls Pilot, funded those bonuses through a capital contribution to PTC, and the bonuses far exceeded the typical bonus compensation awarded to similarly situated executives in the market. Quote PTC’s 2022 EBIT was the highest in its history, exceeding its earnings projections by approximately 50%. As a result, the Special Distribution awards also were record-setting. In total, they exceeded --- Edited December 5, 2023 by gfp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giulio Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 @gfp THANK YOU! Great posts as always. This whole Haslam's machination is complete nonsense. Pure greed, I guess they will have the reputation they deserve. Can't wait for it to be over and for brk to liquidate this "poor" guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 https://cstoredecisions.com/2023/12/05/pilot-opens-first-stations-in-coast-to-coast-ev-charging-network/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfp Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 Partial settlement of some Pacificorp wildfire liabilities (far from all of it) https://finance.yahoo.com/news/berkshire-utility-reaches-299-million-223219342.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munger_Disciple Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 During Collison's interview, Charlie recommends evaluating investment managers using per dollar-year returns & to avoid using time weighted returns. Does anyone know what Munger meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfp Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, Munger_Disciple said: During Collison's interview, Charlie recommends evaluating investment managers using per dollar-year returns & to avoid using time weighted returns. Does anyone know what Munger meant? He's talking about Money-weighted rate of return, you can google it. I actually think he was calling out his friend Mohnish in that segment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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