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Elon Musk, the 21st Century Industrialist

MVP444300

By MVP444300
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rkbabang Mentor

rkbabang

Posted
Posted

rkbabang,

 

i don't see how you compare volt to a 15k car, volt is not a traditional car. (its like comparing when first cell phone came out, its so big and heavy look at my traditional phone its better, but you forget the cell phone is mobile)

 

maybe because of the chevy badge (one reason i bought up corvette, its a 100k car)

 

to say volt compare to a 15k  is similar (looks, size, comfort, etc etc) you forgot the ONE main reason volt exists, the electric plugin, the price premium is definitely not for everyone.

 

No I didn't forget that. I put "total cost of ownership".  The electric plugin is supposed to save you money, if not, what's the point?

 

also we need to compare apples with apples sure you can argue you don't want to pay the price premium but doesn't mean others won't.

as for the toyota prius at 23k, that is the base model and its not a electric plugin, toyota prius model that is electric plugin is 40k (after rebate is $32k similarly price to volt)

 

You could be right, maybe the coolness factor or perceived environmental benefits (even thought there probably aren't really any) may be enough for many people to pay the steep premium.  I don't understand it, but then again, I don't understand a lot about how most people think.  And the other factor is, GM may make a profit on it even if it is a very limited selling product.  That I can at least wrap my head around as a strategy.  Sell a few and make some money until the price comes down far enough to sell them to the rest of us who care more about what we are getting for our money.  Personally, If I wanted to spend that much on a compact car I'd be looking at a BMW 3 series, not a Volt or a Prius, but even that would be out of the question for me.  I'm way to cheap to do something like that.  I'd rather buy an Elantra, drive it for 10+ years and invest the rest.  We'll see if I still feel this way in 2017-2020 when I look to replace it. Who knows, electric vehicles may be a good value proposition by then.

 

 

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hyten1 Rookie

hyten1

Posted
Posted

rkbabang

 

i am with you, i would love to have a volt or model s to play with (its cool)

 

but i am too cheap to pay for them :)

 

at least at the current prices.

 

hy

ERICOPOLY Mentor

ERICOPOLY

Posted
Posted

In any case, the idea of saving energy or emissions with exclusively battery powered cars flies in the face of the limits of battery technology.  It takes hundreds of pounds of the highest tech batteries to store the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline.  That's hundreds of pounds of batteries that the driver has to haul around to the next charging station.  It would take a reinforced hummer to haul around the equivalent weight in batteries of the energy in a half full tank of gas of a small car. 

 

Based on what you said, the Tesla Model S cannot be made unless it is a reinforced Hummer.

 

Yet the EPA rates it at 89 MPG equivalent (going from memory here).

 

That's one hell of an efficient Hummer!

 

Anyways, energy efficiency isn't the entire story.  We finance a massive military in part to secure our access to the global oil markets. 

 

Maybe you are burning domestic fossil fuels like natural gas (or even coal) to generate electricity to power the cars?  That's a win/win even if the math worked out to be no better than burning gasoline (however the math does work out to be better than with gasoline due to the lost energy of the internal combustion engine).

 

I saw somebody argue on TV last night that Obama wasted 80 billion on green energy subsidies.  He threw the Tesla investment in there.  It just seems to me that energy security and national security are in the same pot.  Do we need as many aircraft carriers etc... if we didn't run our economy on oil?  How much do we spend on defense and can 80 billion be saved from our defense budget without reliance on oil supplies from the Persian Gulf?  I suspect that we just spent hundreds of billions fighting a war in part for the oil security.

rkbabang Mentor

rkbabang

Posted
Posted

In any case, the idea of saving energy or emissions with exclusively battery powered cars flies in the face of the limits of battery technology.  It takes hundreds of pounds of the highest tech batteries to store the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline.  That's hundreds of pounds of batteries that the driver has to haul around to the next charging station.  It would take a reinforced hummer to haul around the equivalent weight in batteries of the energy in a half full tank of gas of a small car. 

 

Based on what you said, the Tesla Model S cannot be made unless it is a reinforced Hummer.

 

Yet the EPA rates it at 89 MPG equivalent (going from memory here).

 

That's one hell of an efficient Hummer!

 

Anyways, energy efficiency isn't the entire story.  We finance a massive military in part to secure our access to the global oil markets. 

 

Maybe you are burning domestic fossil fuels like natural gas (or even coal) to generate electricity to power the cars?  That's a win/win even if the math worked out to be no better than burning gasoline (however the math does work out to be better than with gasoline due to the lost energy of the internal combustion engine).

 

I saw somebody argue on TV last night that Obama wasted 80 billion on green energy subsidies.  He threw the Tesla investment in there.  It just seems to me that energy security and national security are in the same pot.  Do we need as many aircraft carriers etc... if we didn't run our economy on oil?  How much do we spend on defense and can 80 billion be saved from our defense budget without reliance on oil supplies from the Persian Gulf?  I suspect that we just spent hundreds of billions fighting a war in part for the oil security.

 

By the same token, if we didn't spend $trillions on foreign wars to protect our oil supply and gasoline was much more expensive, private capital would be pouring into trying to find an alternative.  Instead we are taxing (stealing) money from everyone to fund both sides (keeping oil cheap and available plus finding alternatives that private capital no longer sees the need for now that gasoline is cheap and available) one side of which entails the murder of hundreds of thousands overseas...  Socialism, war, and central planning is bad from every angle.

  • 1 month later...
Parsad Grand Master

Parsad

Posted
Posted

I know of 4 people who got the S and are having electrical/software problems. The car is awesome to ride in though.

 

It will get better after each generation comes out.  Remember the Hyundai Stellar or Pony...now look at Hyundai today!  Cheers!

ubuy2wron Newbie

ubuy2wron

Posted
Posted

I think I will let smarter guys than me figure out  if ya should invest  in Mr Musks ventures. He certainly has lead an interesting life so far and he seems to be having a lot of fun. His persona reminds me of some of the characters in  Robert Heinlein novels from my youth.

fareastwarriors Mentor

fareastwarriors

Posted
Posted

I think I will let smarter guys than me figure out  if ya should invest  in Mr Musks ventures. He certainly has lead an interesting life so far and he seems to be having a lot of fun. His persona reminds me of some of the characters in  Robert Heinlein novels from my youth.

 

He actually reminds me of Tony Stark from Iron Man. Billionaire, inventor/engineer/etc

of course tony is way cooler...

MrB Newbie

MrB

Posted
Posted

I think I will let smarter guys than me figure out  if ya should invest  in Mr Musks ventures. He certainly has lead an interesting life so far and he seems to be having a lot of fun. His persona reminds me of some of the characters in  Robert Heinlein novels from my youth.

 

He actually remembers me of Tony Stark from Iron Man. Billionaire, inventor/engineer/etc

of course tony is way cooler...

 

Oh you are really going to hate hearing this. It goes straight for the inner boy in all of us.

 

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-09-13/elon-musk-the-21st-century-industrialist

"Jon Favreau, a friend and the director of the Iron Man movies, has called Musk the basis for his version of comic book hero Tony Stark, the playboy inventor who builds a flying weaponized suit."

 

Agh! Now tell me that does not hurt  ;)

  • 5 months later...
ERICOPOLY Mentor

ERICOPOLY

Posted
Posted

Well, I intend to go long.  These shorts are going to be squeezed (that's not part of the thesis, it's just fun to think of your detractors being skewered).

 

Dang it, I really should have followed through.

Parsad Grand Master

Parsad

Posted
Posted

I think I will let smarter guys than me figure out  if ya should invest  in Mr Musks ventures. He certainly has lead an interesting life so far and he seems to be having a lot of fun. His persona reminds me of some of the characters in  Robert Heinlein novels from my youth.

 

He actually remembers me of Tony Stark from Iron Man. Billionaire, inventor/engineer/etc

of course tony is way cooler...

 

Oh you are really going to hate hearing this. It goes straight for the inner boy in all of us.

 

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-09-13/elon-musk-the-21st-century-industrialist

"Jon Favreau, a friend and the director of the Iron Man movies, has called Musk the basis for his version of comic book hero Tony Stark, the playboy inventor who builds a flying weaponized suit."

 

Agh! Now tell me that does not hurt  ;)

 

Really, isn't Richard Branson more like Tony Stark...he's not an engineer, but is taking people into space or funding alternative energy sources.  Plus he's got the daredevil-marketing ploy angle covered as well...and the hot babes!  Finally, isn't the Stark goatee alot like Branson's?  Cheers!

VAL9000 Newbie

VAL9000

Posted
Posted

I have a very small (<5%) position in Tesla.  Mostly for the glamour.  I tell myself that when my investment is worth enough to buy a Tesla vehicle, then I will allow myself to do so.  Don't ask me what I'll be driving if the bet goes sour :P

 

Since we're checking history on Tesla...  This position is still < 5% of my portfolio, but is up 197% for me (from Oct 2011).

 

fareastwarriors Mentor

fareastwarriors

Posted
Posted

I have a very small (<5%) position in Tesla.  Mostly for the glamour.  I tell myself that when my investment is worth enough to buy a Tesla vehicle, then I will allow myself to do so.  Don't ask me what I'll be driving if the bet goes sour :P

 

Since we're checking history on Tesla...  This position is still < 5% of my portfolio, but is up 197% for me (from Oct 2011).

 

 

is it enough to buy a tesla car yet?

VAL9000 Newbie

VAL9000

Posted
Posted

I have a very small (<5%) position in Tesla.  Mostly for the glamour.  I tell myself that when my investment is worth enough to buy a Tesla vehicle, then I will allow myself to do so.  Don't ask me what I'll be driving if the bet goes sour :P

 

Since we're checking history on Tesla...  This position is still < 5% of my portfolio, but is up 197% for me (from Oct 2011).

 

 

is it enough to buy a tesla car yet?

 

Not yet...!

 

  • 3 months later...

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