Most important investment of all… kids

[Sweet]

Whether your own children, or your nephews / nieces, or whatever, in my view they are the only investment that really matters.

 

I know that many on the board have cool things they do with their kids.  Would be great if you could share some of those things as ideas for others.

 

I know others are thinking about how to teach their kids about finance, and I’ve seen it in other threads.

 

Some of you also have challenges with kids in your life and this might be a place to speak about that.

 

 

 

[Sweet]

Part of the reason for me posting this thread, in addition to hearing all the cool things people are doing with their kids, is that I have one boy who will be four in the next month who doesn’t speak.  He knows words, occasionally says words (animals, numbers etc) but he doesn’t really use words to communicate - he’ll take my hand and show me what he wants instead.

 

He’s clearly very intelligent, understands a lot of things I say, and has an unusual memory and eye for detail which is well beyond his peers, but obviously well behind with verbal and communication skills.  

 

The biggest issues with his non-speaking is the low expectations of others, and others who hint at certain diagnoses.  It’s also going to be a problem when he entered more formal education in the next 18 months - if he isn’t speaking by then.

 

I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience and what advice they might offer.

[73 Reds]

42 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Whether your own children, or your nephews / nieces, or whatever, in my view they are the only investment that really matters.

 

I know that many on the board have cool things they do with their kids.  Would be great if you could share some of those things as ideas for others.

 

I know others are thinking about how to teach their kids about finance, and I’ve seen it in other threads.

 

Some of you also have challenges with kids in your life and this might be a place to speak about that.

 

 

 

My kids are older but my wife and I always invite them on our trips abroad, which they usually accept (go figure).  One of them also had a speech impediment when he was young but our Pediatrician never advised us to do anything formal about it since he was otherwise a smart, energetic, highly motivated kid.  Still is, and though in hindsight we wish that we'd have taken him to a specialist, he manages OK but it takes more effort than it probably should on his part.

[Parsad]

43 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Part of the reason for me posting this thread, in addition to hearing all the cool things people are doing with their kids, is that I have one boy who will be four in the next month who doesn’t speak.  He knows words, occasionally says words (animals, numbers etc) but he doesn’t really use words to communicate - he’ll take my hand and show me what he wants instead.

 

He’s clearly very intelligent, understands a lot of things I say, and has an unusual memory and eye for detail which is well beyond his peers, but obviously well behind with verbal and communication skills.  

 

The biggest issues with his non-speaking is the low expectations of others, and others who hint at certain diagnoses.  It’s also going to be a problem when he entered more formal education in the next 18 months - if he isn’t speaking by then.

 

I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience and what advice they might offer.

 

My cousin's daughter is extremely active, precocious and playful.  At about 3, some of us recognized her verbal skills were progressing slower than other children in the family of the same age.  She understood perfectly fine, but at times would get very agitated/frustrated when communicating and playing with other children.  As she entered pre-school, the educators there noticed similar issues.  Her Mom wanted to get her assessed, but her father and grandmother who were more old school and didn't want her to stand out from other children, were resistant.  Eventually, they had to do it because she was falling behind the other children.  Once they received the assessment in kindergarten, she is on the spectrum but I don't know all of the details yet, but I do know they were immensely relieved.  They could at least find the right assistance with private educators that could help her to keep up with the public school children she was in the same class with and had become friends with.  

 

Now I have no idea if there is anything that suggests your child needs to be assessed.  Only you can make that judgement call with your spouse.  But if any part of you feels like you don't want to expose your child to that type of assessment yet, I would take heart in knowing that they will not assess your son and diagnose him with anything unless the assessment indicates something.  At that point, you and your spouse can decide what the best route is for your son and your family.

 

I also know of some children that develop verbal/reading skills later...so it certainly isn't anything to panic over.  Just watch your son, how he interacts, and if you feel that an assessment may be a good idea, it's ok to get one done.  It has zero reflection on him, you or your spouse.  My nephew spoke early and often...boy that kid loves a conversation even to today.  But he was very slow to learn to read unlike his younger sister, even though the whole family read to him all of the time.  He went into kindergarten only knowing the alphabet, numbers and very rudimentary reading like "cat", "dog", etc.  Next thing we know, by the end of the year, he was reading everything he could get his hands on and his ability to recognize and pronounce words jumped a couple of grade levels.  By the end of grade 1, he was reading above a grade 4 comprehension level! 

 

Today he's a voracious reader...unfortunately, most of it done on an iPad these days...but he's reading non-stop.  He plays hockey, is working on his black belt in Tae Kwon Do, loves steak and any protein he can get his hands on, can be a bit cocky at times, but is incredibly loving and empathetic, and will talk your ear off about everything from sports to politics, his future, trying to make the NHL, being the next Elon Musk (God no!), and plays video games!

 

Cheers!

[thepupil]

1 hour ago, Sweet said:

Part of the reason for me posting this thread, in addition to hearing all the cool things people are doing with their kids, is that I have one boy who will be four in the next month who doesn’t speak.  He knows words, occasionally says words (animals, numbers etc) but he doesn’t really use words to communicate - he’ll take my hand and show me what he wants instead.

 

He’s clearly very intelligent, understands a lot of things I say, and has an unusual memory and eye for detail which is well beyond his peers, but obviously well behind with verbal and communication skills.  

 

The biggest issues with his non-speaking is the low expectations of others, and others who hint at certain diagnoses.  It’s also going to be a problem when he entered more formal education in the next 18 months - if he isn’t speaking by then.

 

I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience and what advice they might offer.

 

1. I didn't really talk until i was 4 and was reading at a college level by 6th grade (alas! my relative intelligence / achievements plateaued early). I let my sister do all the yapping for me. this likely comes as a surprise to many here on COBF as now there's little i love more than the sound of my own voice. 

 

2. If you haven't already, I'd have him tested for the "certain diagnoses" which you reference (autism?). How you choose to handle/what you do with whatever diagnosis is is up to you, but why not at the very least, seek as much information. Our friends' son was diagnosed at 6 and they feel strongly they wish they knew earlier as it relates to educational choices they made. their kid is in a school where he's thriving and he was previously not. they can afford it and are glad to have that knowledge. I may be misreading it, but I perceive skepticism of such a diagnosis in your writing. I understand the aversion and it seems like the whole mental health industry overdiagnoses, but I'd seek as much information as possible. 4 is pretty old to not be talking a lot. 

Edited 8 hours ago by thepupil

[Parsad]

3 hours ago, Sweet said:

Part of the reason for me posting this thread, in addition to hearing all the cool things people are doing with their kids, is that I have one boy who will be four in the next month who doesn’t speak.  He knows words, occasionally says words (animals, numbers etc) but he doesn’t really use words to communicate - he’ll take my hand and show me what he wants instead.

 

He’s clearly very intelligent, understands a lot of things I say, and has an unusual memory and eye for detail which is well beyond his peers, but obviously well behind with verbal and communication skills.  

 

The biggest issues with his non-speaking is the low expectations of others, and others who hint at certain diagnoses.  It’s also going to be a problem when he entered more formal education in the next 18 months - if he isn’t speaking by then.

 

I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience and what advice they might offer.

 

By the way, have you already checked him for vision or hearing issues.  It might have nothing to do with autism or any sort learning disability.  I needed glasses when I was a toddler...and still wear them 53 years later!  Not using words may also be a sign of not being able to properly hear the words, so the natural default comfort level is to guide you by the hand to what he wants to communicate or point at.  Also, whatever the issue might be...if there even is one...don't stress or panic.  Just deal with it like any thing else...night time feedings, potty training, the flu, etc.  It's just another problem/issue a parent has to deal with and you've handled everything else already!  Cheers!

[lnofeisone]

3 hours ago, Sweet said:

Part of the reason for me posting this thread, in addition to hearing all the cool things people are doing with their kids, is that I have one boy who will be four in the next month who doesn’t speak.  He knows words, occasionally says words (animals, numbers etc) but he doesn’t really use words to communicate - he’ll take my hand and show me what he wants instead.

 

He’s clearly very intelligent, understands a lot of things I say, and has an unusual memory and eye for detail which is well beyond his peers, but obviously well behind with verbal and communication skills.  

 

The biggest issues with his non-speaking is the low expectations of others, and others who hint at certain diagnoses.  It’s also going to be a problem when he entered more formal education in the next 18 months - if he isn’t speaking by then.

 

I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience and what advice they might offer.

Sending you encouragement, @Sweet! You’ve got this, and getting professional assessments is a wonderful, proactive step.

 

Every child truly blooms on their own timeline. My son will be 5 soon, and he didn't start speaking until he was 4, with his first full sentence coming around 4.5. Interestingly, his 2-year-old little sister actually beat him to her first sentence! On top of that, he is one of those amazing kids who can focus on Legos or Magna-Tiles for hours. Because of that unique mix, we naturally wondered about autism.

 

We reached out to several specialists, and the wonderful news was that he was simply a late bloomer with a significant speech delay. It took a little patience to find the right fit, but after two years of speech therapy with a therapist he absolutely bonded with, he is thriving and catching up so fast! While he’s still working hard to bridge the gap with his Pre-K peers, his vocabulary is absolutely mushrooming right now.

Hang in there! Trust your instincts, lean on the specialists, and celebrate every little victory along the way. You’re doing an amazing job!

[Sweet]

Thanks to @73 Reds @Parsad @thepupil and @lnofeisone for your replies.  I’ll admit it has been a lonely slog.

 

Couple of things, I’m from the UK, so everything has a waiting list!  He’s on a development assessment (autism included) and hearing assessment waiting list.  He also is with the NHS speech therapists who sees him bi-monthly.

 

In addition, we have him seeing a private speech therapist fortnightly, she says that until something clicks, or you find a way to drag just a few communicative words out of him, you just have to wait and when it does come it will be a flood.  She’s confident he will speak and that he understand a lot.  She says that unlike many children she sees with speech issues, he is by some way the best natured and most attentive.  No tantrums or anything like that.  All of which is very encouraging.

 

We have also approached school and mentioned his speaking, and that he has a communication delay, and we will be working to get him a classroom assistant for his first school year.  I should also say that he is only partly potty trained even approaching four!  Thankfully he was born at the very start of the school year and will be the eldest in class so he still has 14 months before he starts.

 

Regarding autism diagnoses, I’ll admit I was and continue to be skeptical.  I won’t go into it much, but I will say that in the course of my lifetime it was a debilitating condition recognisable at 100 yards, to something were the people who are autistic appear indistinguishable from anyone else.  My worry about such a diagnosis at a young age is that it bounds him to lower expectation and differential treatment which is simply unnecessary and ultimately damaging.  If I close my eyes, and think about him when he’s 25, I can see a well adjusted young man… provided he speaks because everything else fixes itself.  It’s really the key to bringing on his behaviours.  It’s a tough call, and I’m not arrogant enough to think I have it right, so that’s why he is part of the aforementioned programmes.  If it becomes clear he does in fact have autism, or some other development issue, we can get whatever support he needs. 

 

I’m fortunate that he is obsessed with books.  I have been reading to him but I need to do more of it, much more maybe.

 

A few other things about him.  He’s a twin!  He has a brother who was also a late speaker,  he didn’t speak until he was 3 and now he won’t shut up.  His twin brother speaks for him all the time, and whilst he is kind and loving, his brother is a dominant character.  Finally, I didn’t know this until we had children, but on my wife’s side there is a pattern of high IQ boys who speak late.  At least three relatives who didn’t speak until 4 or 5 and who otherwise turned out fine and intelligent.

 

So yes, a lot to think about, and even from the replies in this thread, it seems to be a more common that many know.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Sweet

[Sweet]

5 hours ago, thepupil said:

I didn't really talk until i was 4 and was reading at a college level by 6th grade (alas! my relative intelligence / achievements plateaued early).

Lol!  Do you know if your parents were worried or you referred for an assessment?

 

2 hours ago, lnofeisone said:

On top of that, he is one of those amazing kids who can focus on Legos or Magna-Tiles for hours. Because of that unique mix, we naturally wondered about autism.

 

We reached out to several specialists, and the wonderful news was that he was simply a late bloomer with a significant speech delay. It took a little patience to find the right fit, but after two years of speech therapy with a therapist he absolutely bonded with, he is thriving and catching up so fast! While he’s still working hard to bridge the gap with his Pre-K peers, his vocabulary is absolutely mushrooming right now.

Hang in there! Trust your instincts, lean on the specialists, and celebrate every little victory along the way. You’re doing an amazing job!

Thank you for this.  I get very frustrated at times, but when I stand back I realise that my frustration is borne out of a supposed expectation of what a child should do at age x.  My father says kids don’t follow a manual and develop at their own pace.

 

Your son sounds a bit like mine.  He too has some traits which might be a symptom to those who don’t know him.  He probably had more of them when he was younger but has largely grown out of them.  However my instinct is that, yes he is different, but it’s not autism.  My feeling is that it is a speech delay which has knock on effects to other things which involve communication.

 

I feel fairly confident, but I could be wrong.  Until he speaks we won’t know for sure. 
 

Regarding the therapist who your son took to.  Did she practise any kind of specific therapy like play based, or the Colorado method or ABA?

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Sweet

[SharperDingaan]

Specialists do amazing jobs, but there is also a need to give kids their space.

 

One of our nephews used to get very frustrated as nobody would play monopoly with him (a favourite game), 'cause he was good at it, and way too competitive. It came to me to break dishes, swap the monopoly money out for Zimbabwe dollars, and play him for hours at a time, both of us picking up $200,000 at a time for passing Go . Sadly, he ultimately went into the computer industry  .... c'est la vie!

 

At boarding school, I wore orthopaedic boots as a kid, as I had extreme flat feet, and no arches; it doesn't go well when you're very junior, and now a target. However, you quickly learn to change the game, and there were no more objections after I dragged in a live mamba (poisonous snake) with one of its fangs buried in the heel of my boot. The boots were eventually replaced with oversized ankles and wide feet, that were great for water polo ... disabilities can also be opportunities.

 

SD

[Artha158]

Check this out.

https://www.amazon.com/Late-talking-Children-Thomas-Sowell/dp/0465038344

 

https://www.amazon.com/Einstein-Syndrome-Thomas-Sowell/dp/0465081401/ref=pd_sbs_d_sccl_1_3/142-2505292-2946855?psc=1

[Castanza]

A close friend of mine is a Doctor of Psychology and specializes in autism disorders for young children. Now that I have two sons I pick her brain every so often on behavior that seems bizarre to me. She tells me it’s normal and also told me they are constantly flooded with parents bringing their kids in for evaluation. She said “End of the day, kids are just F&$@ing weird”  

 

By all means though it doesn’t hurt to get it checked out. The more info you have the better imo. It does seem like there is over propensity to diagnose these days and that the spectrum is ever expanding. I also think the term “autism” has changed quite a bit over the last few decades as there is more awareness and understanding. 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Castanza

[Blugolds]

1 hour ago, Sweet said:

 

 

A few other things about him.  He’s a twin!  He has a brother who was also a late speaker,  he didn’t speak until he was 3 and now he won’t shut up.  His twin brother speaks for him all the time, and whilst he is kind and loving, his brother is a dominant character.  

 

 

Sweet, didn't know you were a fellow twin dad, I also have twin 3yr old boys. I am not an expert regarding diagnosis, kids, parenting, well....any topic for that matter, but I know that watching my boys, being twins does change things a little bit with regard to development. One walked and crawled first, but talked last, one is more physical constantly wanting to rough house and be thrown around (he's the linebacker) and the other is more calculated, enjoys the roughhousing but would rather ambush you than run head on like his brother. One can throw a ball and catch already easily, his arm mechanics are surprising so much so that we had to tell him not to throw things in the house anymore because he threw with enough force to break things....regularly, when his brother throws, he doesnt have the arm movement down at all and the item usually goes straight up in the air and comes down on his head and Im not worried about him having musculoskeletal issues.

 

For some things I felt like it was an advantage, one sees the other do it and then has it quickly, like using the senior bird dog to train a puppy haha. One of my sons is very outgoing and the other is slightly more timid, but then once he sees his brother do it, then hes totally fine and all in. Just wired that way and I think I wouldnt have noticed it if they werent side by side. I have seen some instances where one takes a backseat to the other, and I only noticed it when I had started spending more time with just one of them vs both of them together, when I spent the day with the "quieter" one it was almost like he came out of his shell without his brother around! A significant difference. 

 

I think its normal for parents to wonder where their kids are in development, and there can be pressure. Our boys are not fully potty trained, have just started telling us they have to pee during the day still need reminders, will go stand behind the couch and hide when they poop in their pullup, and wear diapers at night, we have tried the underwear all weekend plan and tried a totally naked weekend, doesnt seem to stick yet, wife has pressure to get them potty trained, probably mostly from herself comparing to others and some probably from family. I told her that I didnt know any kids in college that wore diapers, it'll be fine and we have a couple years before kindergarten anyway, just keep trying to make progress, it'll happen. 

 

Good luck with whatever direction you go, parenting is a unique experience for everyone. We can tell you love and support them...with that everything will work out