Iran - Israel - Gaza Conflict

[73 Reds]

5 minutes ago, Dinar said:

Hamas is rather easy.  Stop all water, food, etc... into Gaza, allow all, except for males between 12 and 60 to leave freely.  Males between 12 and 60 will have to go through POW camps to figure out whether they were members of Hamas in which case they should be tried as terrorists or innocent civilians, in which case they should be allowed to go to a country of their choice or into Syria.

Hezbollah - start by blocking all food and energy into Lebanon.  Then you have to fight a very bloody war, at the end divide Lebanon into northern and southern halves.  Christians get southern half, Sunnis get northern half and Shiites go to Syria; just as losers in every war.

I'm afraid if it were that easy, it would already have been done.  And if you think Western public opinion is bad now, just wait.  Then there is the issue that NO OTHER COUNTRY wants these people and you can't force anyone to take them.

[Dinar]

Just now, 73 Reds said:

I'm afraid if it were that easy, it would already have been done.  And if you think Western public opinion is bad now, just wait.  Then there is the issue that NO OTHER COUNTRY wants these people and you can't force anyone to take them.

It is that easy.  Israelis are afraid of public opinion, but time is NOT on their side.  No other country wants them?   Well, dump them into Syria, how can Syria stop it?  If it is not done now, it will get much worse, and in the next war US will NOT help them.

[73 Reds]

2 minutes ago, Dinar said:

It is that easy.  Israelis are afraid of public opinion, but time is NOT on their side.  No other country wants them?   Well, dump them into Syria, how can Syria stop it?  If it is not done now, it will get much worse, and in the next war US will NOT help them.

Syria would place troops at the border.  It can't logistically be done as much as we might want it.  And withholding food and water will ensure Israel's complete isolation world-wide. 

[Dinar]

1 hour ago, 73 Reds said:

Syria would place troops at the border.  It can't logistically be done as much as we might want it.  And withholding food and water will ensure Israel's complete isolation world-wide. 

Assad has not been able to defeat a bunch of rebels, can he stop Israel's military?  As for Israel's isolation, you are already isolated.  The world will forgive any atrocity if it is done quickly.  Who remembers Armenian and Greek genocide by the Turks?  Who holds Japanese responsible for atrocities of WWII?  Who throws Hitler's crimes in the face of Germany today?  

In any case what is the alternative?  Keep rolling the dice as @SharperDingaan said?  Eventually you will lose, and then all of Israelies are going to be murdered by the victorious Muslim armies!  Either kill and transfer today, or you will suffer genocide tomorrow.  The choice is Israel's.  

[Spekulatius]

5 hours ago, cubsfan said:

The risk as I see it - Kamala wins - and then the anti-Israel administration stands behind the proHamas wing of the democrats. Not good for Israel.

What is your evidence that Biden/Kamala are antisemitic?

[Gregmal]

40 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

What is your evidence that Biden/Kamala are antisemitic?

Yea Kamala is married to a Jew and otherwise nothing I’ve seen from her is antisemitic. Biden is part of the pro Israel old school faction of the party. It’s more the newer and younger democrats that are really bigoted. 

[cubsfan]

33 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

What is your evidence that Biden/Kamala are antisemitic?

 

This administration has been anti-Israel from the beginning. Arming and funding Iran (and proxies) is of course the most obvious. Billions of dollars to terrorists, they thought they could somehow contain. Biden/Harris created a huge mess in the Middle East for Israel.

 

Now they have their lunatic wing to contend with - The Squad and Michigan voters that they can not afford to lose control of - just makes their problem worse.

 

If this administration had not interfered with Israel so much since Oct 7th, the war in Gaza would have ended much earlier.

 

 

[Xerxes]

4 hours ago, Dinar said:

Assad has not been able to defeat a bunch of rebels, can he stop Israel's military?  As for Israel's isolation, you are already isolated.  The world will forgive any atrocity if it is done quickly.  Who remembers Armenian and Greek genocide by the Turks?  Who holds Japanese responsible for atrocities of WWII?  Who throws Hitler's crimes in the face of Germany today?  

In any case what is the alternative?  Keep rolling the dice as @SharperDingaan said?  Eventually you will lose, and then all of Israelies are going to be murdered by the victorious Muslim armies!  Either kill and transfer today, or you will suffer genocide tomorrow.  The choice is Israel's.  

 

https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/learn-about-genocide-and-other-mass-atrocities/what-is-genocide
 

 

Assad cannot do much. He didn’t even have operational control over the S-300 that Russians “sold” to them.  

 

That said, would you say the plan that you propose that needs to happen to Lebanese and Palestinian as a permanent fix constitute as genocide as define in the link above ?

 

I get the argument of “do it to them before they do it to you”. But I think you should classify it what it really is, if you agree that it meets the definition. 
 

[Dinar]

@Xerxes, no since I am not calling for killing civilians.  Transfer yes, like has been done since time immemorial, and just this year done by Muslim Azeris to Christian Armenians.   It will also sound absurd, but this will save lives on both sides, since if it is not done, wars there will go on forever will larger and larger casualties.  

[73 Reds]

20 minutes ago, Dinar said:

@Xerxes, no since I am not calling for killing civilians.  Transfer yes, like has been done since time immemorial, and just this year done by Muslim Azeris to Christian Armenians.   It will also sound absurd, but this will save lives on both sides, since if it is not done, wars there will go on forever will larger and larger casualties.  

This has already gone on forever and depriving a population of food & water and trying to force your way into another country to offload tens of thousand of unwanted human beings will absolutely cause larger casualties.  Israel does not need a conflict on a third front.  What do you think might happen to these people if they were somehow deposited in Syria - it would create another version of Southern Lebanon or existing territories with conflicts along yet another border.  Moreover, what do you think happens to people who are wholly unwanted by a terrorist country in which they happen to reside?  I think we were on the right track with the Abraham accords.  From a Middle East perspective, I hope Trump gets another opportunity - it won't happen under any current Democratic administration.   

[Xerxes]

2 hours ago, Dinar said:

@Xerxes, no since I am not calling for killing civilians.  Transfer yes, like has been done since time immemorial, and just this year done by Muslim Azeris to Christian Armenians

Understood.
 

of note: Baku and TelAviv already exchange notes, given that the Jewish state is a close ally of Muslim state of Azerbaijan. 

[Dinar]

3 hours ago, 73 Reds said:

This has already gone on forever and depriving a population of food & water and trying to force your way into another country to offload tens of thousand of unwanted human beings will absolutely cause larger casualties.  Israel does not need a conflict on a third front.  What do you think might happen to these people if they were somehow deposited in Syria - it would create another version of Southern Lebanon or existing territories with conflicts along yet another border.  Moreover, what do you think happens to people who are wholly unwanted by a terrorist country in which they happen to reside?  I think we were on the right track with the Abraham accords.  From a Middle East perspective, I hope Trump gets another opportunity - it won't happen under any current Democratic administration.   

It may cause larger casualties now, but a lot fewer in the long run.  It is easier to defend Golan than Gaza border.   Huge blame lies with the West & the UN for keeping refugee camps.  Tens of millions of WWII refugees integrated into other societies.  

[73 Reds]

2 minutes ago, Dinar said:

It may cause larger casualties now, but a lot fewer in the long run.  It is easier to defend Golan than Gaza border.   Huge blame lies with the West & the UN for keeping refugee camps.  Tens of millions of WWII refugees integrated into other societies.  

No argument but for the reasons stated earlier it won't happen that way.  It would be far more feasible for these people to relocate to Egypt and/or Jordan but that is not happening either - unless or until a whole lot of compensation is put on the table.