Cryptocurrencies

[Fly]

6 hours ago, TwoCitiesCapital said:

 

I would like more details on list that tokens included, how inclusion is determined, and how inclusion/exclusion will be determined in the future...along with proposed weightings. 

 

I am surprised it happened so quickly - but the details on the size of the reserve, the weightings within it, and the timeframe to get there - so it may still be a nothing-burger or yet another way to funnel US taxpayer money into TRUMP coin which may be included next 

 

As a US tax payer, I'd be concerned if the weighting of the non-Bitcoin tokens was significant.  At the very least we should start off with a rough market-cap approximation which would put ~65% in BTC, or more, into BTC. 

Who has the best lobbyists? I’d wager XRP, SOL, ADA are right up there at the top. 
 

Oddly enough, the Bitcoin CEO could not be reached for comment…

[TwoCitiesCapital]

31 minutes ago, Fly said:

Who has the best lobbyists? I’d wager XRP, SOL, ADA are right up there at the top. 
 

Oddly enough, the Bitcoin CEO could not be reached for comment…

 

Surely those won't have more weight than $TRUMP? 

[frommi]

Don't want to crush the party, but doesn't congress need to allow buying crypto assets?
The Working Group shall evaluate the potential creation and maintenance of a national digital asset stockpile and propose criteria for establishing such a stockpile, potentially derived from cryptocurrencies lawfully seized by the Federal Government through its law enforcement efforts.
This is from the executive order and there is no mention of buying any crypto assets, its about confiscation. To me the tweet looks like a way to provide exit liquidity to his boys. So don't dream to big about this.

[dwy000]

55 minutes ago, frommi said:

Don't want to crush the party, but doesn't congress need to allow buying crypto assets?
The Working Group shall evaluate the potential creation and maintenance of a national digital asset stockpile and propose criteria for establishing such a stockpile, potentially derived from cryptocurrencies lawfully seized by the Federal Government through its law enforcement efforts.
This is from the executive order and there is no mention of buying any crypto assets, its about confiscation. To me the tweet looks like a way to provide exit liquidity to his boys. So don't dream to big about this.

Yes.  This is like the Sovereign Wealth Fund idea.  You need to fund it and that requires congressional approval.

 

This reeks of putting out a PR to tick the campaign promise box on supporting crypto.  And I'm sure there was some slip of the notice to friends and family to make money on the announcement.

 

 

[Paarslaars]

Yeah I believe we see 80k on BTC again before 100k. This tweet does not mean much more than a campaign promise.

[Dave86ch]

7 hours ago, Fly said:

Who has the best lobbyists? I’d wager XRP, SOL, ADA are right up there at the top. 
 

Oddly enough, the Bitcoin CEO could not be reached for comment…

 

Bitcoin is a religion, way more powerful than any CEO.

 

Like every religion, it has its priests—they come and go.

 

Saylor is just playing his part, preaching about "having faith."

 

$1 million is heaven; inflation is hell.

 

Human nature never changes.

 

Sachs and Chamath laughing about their hodlings.

https://blob.satellite.earth/693b0371172e30089a60af93e5f9558ccd1fd72f0a204df7913b963098580739

 

 

Edited Monday at 09:22 AM by Dave86ch

[Parsad]

1 hour ago, Dave86ch said:

 

Bitcoin is a religion, way more powerful than any CEO.

 

Like every religion, it has its priests—they come and go.

 

Saylor is just playing his part, preaching about "having faith."

 

$1 million is heaven; inflation is hell.

 

Human nature never changes.

 

Sachs and Chamath laughing about their hodlings.

https://blob.satellite.earth/693b0371172e30089a60af93e5f9558ccd1fd72f0a204df7913b963098580739

 

 

 

I just don't see this ending well as sovereign nations and financial institutions add crypto to their asset base.  Somewhere down the road, these exposures are going to have a domino effect on capital levels and the losses will be staggering.  Think Regions Financial et al, but 10-100 times bigger!  Yikes!  Cheers!

[TwoCitiesCapital]

3 hours ago, Parsad said:

 

I just don't see this ending well as sovereign nations and financial institutions add crypto to their asset base.  Somewhere down the road, these exposures are going to have a domino effect on capital levels and the losses will be staggering.  Think Regions Financial et al, but 10-100 times bigger!  Yikes!  Cheers!

 

Yea - I'm not crazy about the idea. I'm fine with banks allowed some lattitude to hold it, with an appropriate capital charge for the volatility, but exposures and they shouldn't be release crypto oriented products without a way to bring in crypto based revenue. 

 

As for the US government? Sure. If they want to create a policy of holding BTC that is seized, or other crypto, or converted all seized crypto into BTC, I'm fine with it. While I would personally benefit from the policy of printing money to buy BTC, that is not a sound policy I would generally support as it is going to hurt the 80-90% of the population that doesn't hold it (or the others). 

 

8 hours ago, frommi said:

Don't want to crush the party, but doesn't congress need to allow buying crypto assets?
The Working Group shall evaluate the potential creation and maintenance of a national digital asset stockpile and propose criteria for establishing such a stockpile, potentially derived from cryptocurrencies lawfully seized by the Federal Government through its law enforcement efforts.
This is from the executive order and there is no mention of buying any crypto assets, its about confiscation. To me the tweet looks like a way to provide exit liquidity to his boys. So don't dream to big about this.

 

+1 

 

As mentioned before, without the details, it could be a big nothing-burger. 

 

7 hours ago, dwy000 said:

Yes.  This is like the Sovereign Wealth Fund idea.  You need to fund it and that requires congressional approval.

 

This reeks of putting out a PR to tick the campaign promise box on supporting crypto.  And I'm sure there was some slip of the notice to friends and family to make money on the announcement.

 

Yup. It's Trump. This is how he operates. His base is still waiting for tipped wages and overtime to be tax-free (and believe it is still coming!). 

[Dave86ch]

21 hours ago, Parsad said:

 

I just don't see this ending well as sovereign nations and financial institutions add crypto to their asset base.  Somewhere down the road, these exposures are going to have a domino effect on capital levels and the losses will be staggering.  Think Regions Financial et al, but 10-100 times bigger!  Yikes!  Cheers!

Investing in a new and neutral monetary system—one that only Proof of Work can enable—educating your allies about this tool, introducing the population to its infrastructure and the opportunities of a deflationary savings technology, and strengthening your political position while improving the well-being of the people by leveraging unused energy sources.

 

That would make perfect sense.

It would pave the way for digitally native, hyper-efficient, and economically viable infrastructure, especially for developing countries. It would enable fair wealth distribution, resilience, and a more even economic landscape.

 

And only Bitcoin has the technology and adoption to make this possible.

 

 

[thowed]

On 3/3/2025 at 9:19 AM, Dave86ch said:

 

Bitcoin is a religion

 

This is the problem, isn't it?  A strategic reserve means that all citizens are forced to be involved in this religion.  Where's the Church/State division?

[Paarslaars]

1 hour ago, thowed said:

 

This is the problem, isn't it?  A strategic reserve means that all citizens are forced to be involved in this religion.  Where's the Church/State division?

Nobody tell him about church tax exemption.

 

Or goverments subsidies...

Edited Tuesday at 04:14 PM by Paarslaars

[TwoCitiesCapital]

11 hours ago, thowed said:

 

This is the problem, isn't it?  A strategic reserve means that all citizens are forced to be involved in this religion.  Where's the Church/State division?

 

 

No more of a religion than the belief in the "full faith and credit" of the US government. 

 

10 hours ago, Paarslaars said:

Nobody tell him about church tax exemption.

 

Or goverments subsidies...

 

Or the religious-right imposing their white-washed view of Christianity on the rest of the club. 

[LC]

I am about to display my ignorance but I'll go charge ahead regardless: 

 

So if the US does begin buying a "stockpile" of digital assets - who owns the wallet password? Does an unsuspecting gov't employee buy a boatload of crypto, take the passcode and wander off into the sunset? 

Again, ignorant of how such a thing would work practically. 

[TwoCitiesCapital]

3 hours ago, LC said:

I am about to display my ignorance but I'll go charge ahead regardless: 

 

So if the US does begin buying a "stockpile" of digital assets - who owns the wallet password? Does an unsuspecting gov't employee buy a boatload of crypto, take the passcode and wander off into the sunset? 

Again, ignorant of how such a thing would work practically. 

 

Is a good question. There are multisig wallets that would allow for transactions with "2 of 3" signing parties present (or other variations). 

 

So you could have 3 employees trusted with different "passcodes" requiring collusion between at least two of them to do anything and protecting against a single rogue actor. 

 

I'm not in support of any crypto strategic reserve that comes before we eliminate the deficit or includes anything other than Bitcoin. That's because there is no realistic scenario  where the government could hope to acquire any amount that is meaningful relative to our deficits/debts/unfunded liabilities and it's a waste of energy looking to Bitcoin to save us from the bad decisions of our politicians. 

 

 

[Dave86ch]

17 hours ago, thowed said:

 

This is the problem, isn't it?  A strategic reserve means that all citizens are forced to be involved in this religion.  Where's the Church/State division?

Thinking that the state will be able to pay you a pension is also a leap of faith.

 

I’ve read almost the entire Story of Civilization series by Will Durant, and when it comes to human history, almost everything is rooted in religion. The state itself has religious characteristics—ceremonies, rituals, beliefs, and priests who spread promises.

 

President Johnson convinced everyone that eggs posed a serious threat to public health because science had supposedly proven a link to cholesterol. People believed it, and consumption of processed food skyrocketed as an alternative to real food.

 

This happened because processed food had more manageable profit margins, while egg prices were soaring. The president cited "science" to back his claims.

 

Many people today still believe it.

 

There is little rationality in the religion of states, governments, and so on.

 

"Listen, on top of the mountain, I talked with God, and He said it’s a bad idea to kill each other—otherwise, He’ll kill you all."

 

You can't just say, "Hey, I'm Dave, and now I'm going to write 10,000 pages on why Bitcoin is better money."

 

People will respond, "Who the fuck are you? And by the way, I want to watch the game tonight—I don’t have the mental energy to understand what you're saying."

 

The fact that some of us use fiat currency to store wealth is an act of faith, backed by almost nothing.

 

That’s just how we coordinate as a society, and having religious characteristics is actually a good sign.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:50 AM by Dave86ch

[thowed]

51 minutes ago, Dave86ch said:

The fact that some of us use fiat currency to store wealth is an act of faith, backed by almost nothing.

 

Yeah, fair point.  For me, I go back to a Druckenmiller interview, where he focuses on the timescale i.e. the longer people have faith in something, the more credible it becomes.  And I don't have enough faith in bitcoin yet to embrace it. 

[james22]

 

[LC]

7 hours ago, TwoCitiesCapital said:

Is a good question. There are multisig wallets that would allow for transactions with "2 of 3" signing parties present (or other variations). 

 

So you could have 3 employees trusted with different "passcodes" requiring collusion between at least two of them to do anything and protecting against a single rogue actor. 

 

Thanks for the response. I guess my concern is the inabiiity to revise/roll back major issues.

 

I mean even today we have a president that controls congress, and the supreme court. Even if all of those parties had a unique passcode and you needed all 3 to collude, it could happen. And what are the options then?

 

But ultimately yeah I agree - the root cause is that our leaders should make better decisions.

[Fly]

8 hours ago, TwoCitiesCapital said:

 

Is a good question. There are multisig wallets that would allow for transactions with "2 of 3" signing parties present (or other variations). 

 

So you could have 3 employees trusted with different "passcodes" requiring collusion between at least two of them to do anything and protecting against a single rogue actor. 

 

I'm not in support of any crypto strategic reserve that comes before we eliminate the deficit or includes anything other than Bitcoin. That's because there is no realistic scenario  where the government could hope to acquire any amount that is meaningful relative to our deficits/debts/unfunded liabilities and it's a waste of energy looking to Bitcoin to save us from the bad decisions of our politicians. 

 

 

Or the US Gov can just lose it the old fashioned way

 

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2025/02/20/u-s-marshals-service-managing-seized-assets-can-t-say-how-much-crypto-it-holds

[james22]

Blackrock:

 

Critics’ go-to refrain is bitcoin has no intrinsic value. To the contrary, in our view, the discussed embedded characteristics represent fundamentally real and attractive sources of intrinsic value, which we expect will be recognized by more people in more places over time – particularly in a debt-laden, digital-first, and increasingly AI-entrenched world.

 

https://www.blackrock.com/us/financial-professionals/insights/why-bitcoin

[TwoCitiesCapital]

1 hour ago, LC said:

 

Thanks for the response. I guess my concern is the inabiiity to revise/roll back major issues.

 

I mean even today we have a president that controls congress, and the supreme court. Even if all of those parties had a unique passcode and you needed all 3 to collude, it could happen. And what are the options then?

 

But ultimately yeah I agree - the root cause is that our leaders should make better decisions.

 

I have similar concerns, but this is exactly how our nuclear launch codes work. We don't seem to be demanding changes there. 

[TwoCitiesCapital]

39 minutes ago, Fly said:

Or the US Gov can just lose it the old fashioned way

 

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2025/02/20/u-s-marshals-service-managing-seized-assets-can-t-say-how-much-crypto-it-holds

 

[Buckeye]

4 hours ago, james22 said:

 

How many times are they going to announce this Bitcoin Strategic Reserve? Seems like we’ve already had 2-3 announcements.

Edited 19 hours ago by Buckeye

[TwoCitiesCapital]

2 hours ago, Buckeye said:

How many times are they going to announce this Bitcoin Strategic Reserve? Seems like we’ve already had 2-3 announcements.

 

Maybe Eric Trump bought the dip and needed a pick me-up

[MungerWunger]

Eric is a genius