Is Europe becoming uninvestable?

[Loss Horizon]

21 hours ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

You really have to love the institution that is the EU/European Commission. Europe's economy is stagnant for years and the future looks bleak. 

 

And what are the priorities of Europe's leaders? Recreate George Orwell's 1984:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chat control is a great way to continue Europe's suppression of Free Speech. Anyone who insults the German Chancellor on private chat with their friends or family can promptly be arrested. Hooray!

 

Know who is exempt from Chat Control? EU ministers, of course!

 

This is not a democracy, it's like an autocracy of the elites.

 

 

Twitter people have no idea about democracy, as usual. To give a non-democratic example, numerous punitive laws in Russia are approved by the parliament in a few days, from initial idea to legal validity. Here we see 3 years of discussions and multiple rejections - that is as democratic as it gets.

 

You could phrase this as "the EU is preventing chat control for the 6th time", because the EU consists of multiple actors, some o which are coming up with ideas, and some are rejecting or approving ideas.

 

Compare this again with the Russian president who decided to start a full scale war without asking anyone. Or the American president who did the same recently.

[Dalal.Holdings]

1 hour ago, Loss Horizon said:

 

Twitter people have no idea about democracy, as usual. To give a non-democratic example, numerous punitive laws in Russia are approved by the parliament in a few days, from initial idea to legal validity. Here we see 3 years of discussions and multiple rejections - that is as democratic as it gets.

 

You could phrase this as "the EU is preventing chat control for the 6th time", because the EU consists of multiple actors, some o which are coming up with ideas, and some are rejecting or approving ideas.

 

Compare this again with the Russian president who decided to start a full scale war without asking anyone. Or the American president who did the same recently.

You know your "democracy" is in trouble when you start comparing it with Russia's...

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2026/07/07/eu-to-extend-temporary-message-scanning-regime-to-detect-child-sexual-abuse-online

 

Read it again--they used a rare measure to sneak it through:

 

Quote

But the European People’s Party (EPP), the largest group in the Parliament, revived the temporary extension through a rarely used legislative procedure. 

EPP MEPs largely voted against it in March, because of some amendments to the original text introduced by the Socialist rapporteur Birgit Sippel and other left-wing lawmakers, aimed at restricting the scope of the scanning, center-right group officials told Euronews.

EPP leader Manfred Weber has been pushing for the extension to be adopted without any changes and found a way to make it happen.

 

According to people familiar with the matter, on 17 June the EPP requested the Parliament’s President Roberta Metsola to push forward with the interim file and no other group objected.

 

 

No consider all the problems facing Europe and THIS is what these MEPs are hellbent on passing? LMAO.

 

You don't trust Twitter? Fine. What about R/Europe on Reddit? 

 

Why don't you read the comments. 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Dalal.Holdings

[Dalal.Holdings]

1 hour ago, Loss Horizon said:

 

Google, Facebook are built on collecting personal data, it's the whole business model. Every Big Tech today does that

LOL. You do understand the difference between a private company collecting data to sell you ads and a government, right? Or maybe you do not. I guess that's why Europeans like to click on those "Accept Cookies" banners all day

 

BTW:

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelines-us.pdf

Quote

Apple does not receive or retain encryption keys for customer’s end-to-end encrypted data.

 

https://support.apple.com/en-bn/guide/iphone/iph584ea27f5/ios

Edited 21 hours ago by Dalal.Holdings

[Dalal.Holdings]

20 hours ago, TwoCitiesCapital said:

So....Europe is getting its own NSA? Or have they stopped doing that in the US? Because this is sooooo 2013

Lol: someone who doesn't understand FISA or the difference between having backdoor access to all encrypted communication vs interception of communication. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple–FBI_encryption_dispute

Quote

In 2015 and 2016, Apple Inc. received and objected to or challenged at least 11 orders issued by United States district courts under the All Writs Act of 1789. Most of these seek to compel Apple "to use its existing capabilities to extract data like contacts, photos and calls from locked iPhones running on operating systems iOS 7 and older" in order to assist in criminal investigations and prosecutions.

Quote

A few requests, however, involve phones with more extensive security protections, which Apple has no current ability to break. These orders would compel Apple to write new software that would let the government bypass these devices' security and unlock the phones.^[3]

Quote

In another case in Brooklyn, a magistrate judge ruled that the All Writs Act could not be used to compel Apple to unlock an iPhone.

 

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelines-us.pdf

 

Quote

Apple does not receive or retain encryption keys for customer’s end-to-end encrypted data.

 

To those who are clueless: even Apple doesn't have the keys to iPhone end to end encryption.

 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Dalal.Holdings

[Dalal.Holdings]

The fact is that European politicians who claim to care about "privacy" are really upset that companies like Apple are allowing its users to have full end-to-end encryption. Shows you that European leaders don't want privacy at all, but just one thing: control.

[Loss Horizon]

1 hour ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

You know your "democracy" is in trouble when you start comparing it with Russia's...

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2026/07/07/eu-to-extend-temporary-message-scanning-regime-to-detect-child-sexual-abuse-online

 

Read it again--they used a rare measure to sneak it through:

 

 

 

No consider all the problems facing Europe and THIS is what these MEPs are hellbent on passing? LMAO.

 

You don't trust Twitter? Fine. What about R/Europe on Reddit? 

 

Why don't you read the comments. 

 

 

Reddit is a similar echo-chamber, just with a different bias and better moderation. "Commission can just tweak the wording and propose it again while Parliament can only fight it" - that's an absurd wording. The Parliament is the gatekeeper, and any proposal must get their approval to get traction. They don't have to "fight", because if they do nothing then it won't be passed.

 

People here somehow confuse and mix democracy and privacy. In this case I don't see any threat to democracy, but there is some threat to privacy. For example, in the US privacy is quite bad, but democracy is very strong (despite Trump's efforts).

 

I still don't understand how this discussion is relevant to investing, because in China both democracy and privacy are weak, yet the economy is doing well currently.

[Loss Horizon]

1 hour ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

LOL. You do understand the difference between a private company collecting data to sell you ads and a government, right? Or maybe you do not. I guess that's why Europeans like to click on those "Accept Cookies" banners all day

 

BTW:

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelines-us.pdf

 

https://support.apple.com/en-bn/guide/iphone/iph584ea27f5/ios

 

I'm sure Facebook will sell any private data to the highest bidder with no problem, as it did in the past. I don't see a reason for them to exclude government agencies from this business.

 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_concerns_with_Facebook :

 

Quote

In December 2018 it emerged that Facebook had, during the period 2010–2018, granted access to users' private messages, address book contents, and private posts, without the users' consent, to more than 150 third parties including Microsoft, Amazon, Yahoo, Netflix, and Spotify. This had been occurring despite public statements from Facebook that it had stopped such sharing years earlier.

 

Apple can certainly access your information, because they control the operating system on your smartphone via cloud, which has all your decryption keys. But it's good for the business of selling smartphones to publicly reject law enforcement requests.

[Dalal.Holdings]

9 hours ago, Loss Horizon said:

 

Reddit is a similar echo-chamber, just with a different bias and better moderation. "Commission can just tweak the wording and propose it again while Parliament can only fight it" - that's an absurd wording. The Parliament is the gatekeeper, and any proposal must get their approval to get traction. They don't have to "fight", because if they do nothing then it won't be passed.

 

People here somehow confuse and mix democracy and privacy. In this case I don't see any threat to democracy, but there is some threat to privacy. For example, in the US privacy is quite bad, but democracy is very strong (despite Trump's efforts).

 

I still don't understand how this discussion is relevant to investing, because in China both democracy and privacy are weak, yet the economy is doing well currently.

The problem is that European leaders pretend to be defenders of democracy but are very antidemocratic.

 

The notion of free speech and privacy of communication between individuals from government is very important to individual rights and democracy—even if you might not think so. That’s why autocracies like China don’t have these things.

 

It’s relevant here because it’s just one episode in European leaders’ long history of overregulating businesses (in this case tech companies with end to end encryption) while their economies stagnate.

 

Yeah, you cab believe all the conspiracies you want, but Apple does not have the keys to end to end encrypted communication. They cannot access it. Apple is very serious about privacy.

 

This is not true in China and basically European leaders want to do the same thing:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-privacy-censorship.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

[Dalal.Holdings]

9 hours ago, Loss Horizon said:

 

Apple can certainly access your information, because they control the operating system on your smartphone via cloud, which has all your decryption keys. But it's good for the business of selling smartphones to publicly reject law enforcement requests.

Do you have a source for that or do you just routinely make stuff up?

[Dalal.Holdings]

European “democracy”: 276 in favor, 314 against becomes law. LMAO the European elites win again!

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/D4wDMOlV4M

 

[Sweet]

1 hour ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

European “democracy”: 276 in favor, 314 against becomes law. LMAO the European elites win again!

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/D4wDMOlV4M

 

Any word on this @Loss Horizon?

 

Crap like this is why I voted Leave in 2016.

[Gregmal]

25 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Any word on this @Loss Horizon?

 

Crap like this is why I voted Leave in 2016.

Yea this is disgraceful and unjustifiable. At least the top floors have AC tho 

[Charlie]

 

 

Ai´s answer to the question "Is Europe or the U.S. more democratic?"

 

Major democratic assessment organizations generally rate Europe as more democratic than the U.S. In the V-Dem Institute Democracy Report at the University of Gothenburg, Western Europe scores significantly higher, with the U.S. having lost its long-term status as a "liberal democracy" due to rapid declines in civil liberties and checks on executive power. 

 

Similarly, the Economist Intelligence Unit consistently ranks European nations—particularly Nordic countries like Norway—at the very top of its global rankings, classifying them as "full democracies". In contrast, the U.S. is categorized as a "flawed democracy". This disparity is driven by America's polarized political culture, lower levels of political participation, and struggles with government functionality. 

 

[Sweet]

49 minutes ago, Charlie said:

 

 

 

Ai´s answer to the question "Is Europe or the U.S. more democratic?"

 

Major democratic assessment organizations generally rate Europe as more democratic than the U.S. In the V-Dem Institute Democracy Report at the University of Gothenburg, Western Europe scores significantly higher, with the U.S. having lost its long-term status as a "liberal democracy" due to rapid declines in civil liberties and checks on executive power. 

 

Similarly, the Economist Intelligence Unit consistently ranks European nations—particularly Nordic countries like Norway—at the very top of its global rankings, classifying them as "full democracies". In contrast, the U.S. is categorized as a "flawed democracy". This disparity is driven by America's polarized political culture, lower levels of political participation, and struggles with government functionality. 

 

I think don’t think this is true Charlie.  Case in point above law by the EU.

[Dalal.Holdings]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

 

 

 

Ai´s answer to the question "Is Europe or the U.S. more democratic?"

 

Major democratic assessment organizations generally rate Europe as more democratic than the U.S. In the V-Dem Institute Democracy Report at the University of Gothenburg, Western Europe scores significantly higher, with the U.S. having lost its long-term status as a "liberal democracy" due to rapid declines in civil liberties and checks on executive power. 

 

Similarly, the Economist Intelligence Unit consistently ranks European nations—particularly Nordic countries like Norway—at the very top of its global rankings, classifying them as "full democracies". In contrast, the U.S. is categorized as a "flawed democracy". This disparity is driven by America's polarized political culture, lower levels of political participation, and struggles with government functionality. 

 

"A European institute ranked Europe as more democratic than the USA". LMAO "we investigated ourselves and found we've done nothing wrong". Just don't compare the German Chancellor to Pinocchio! Just don't "insult" the wrong groups!

 

Europeans really love to criticize and critique America at the most minutiae levels, but when their own flaws are pointed out, it's deflect deflect and deflect.

 

Europe's GDP stagnating ? No worries, we are at the top of the list of happiest countries (a list we created)! 

 

The point is that the EU is not a democratic organization. Its president is not selected by the people. It is a non-democratic layer of government that has harmed the continent greatly and continues to do so.

[Charlie]

Wikipedia:

 

Democratic backsliding in the United States

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding_in_the_United_States

[Dalal.Holdings]

4 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Wikipedia:

 

Democratic backsliding in the United States

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding_in_the_United_States

LOL, an article that cites the "V-Dem Institute" again. Clueless..

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did these people read the V-Dem Institute rankings though? I heard Brussels-tards are the most democratic beings in the universe (according to them).

 

[Dalal.Holdings]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

Similarly, the Economist Intelligence Unit consistently ranks European nations—particularly Nordic countries like Norway—at the very top of its global rankings, classifying them as "full democracies". In contrast, the U.S. is categorized as a "flawed democracy". This disparity is driven by America's polarized political culture, lower levels of political participation, and struggles with government functionality. 

 

Translation: when Americans are more "polarized" (meaning they believe stuff we disagree with), America is less "democratic".

 

Also the Economist: we ranked America low because of low political participation. The actual data says otherwise:

https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results,_2024:_Analysis_of_voter_turnout_in_the_2024_general_election

 

Quote

The overall turnout of eligible voters in the 2024 general election was 63.7%.^[1] This was lower than the 2020 record of 66.6%^[2] but higher than every other election year since at least 2004.

 

Now tell me how many European voters participate in the election of the European Commission/President....oh wait, it's zero.

 

So tell me more about your useless rankings...

[Gregmal]

Jesus fuckin Christ lol society is certainly lost when the answer to everything is “let’s ask AI”….

[Paarslaars]

[Sweet]

4 hours ago, Charlie said:

Wikipedia:

 

Democratic backsliding in the United States

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding_in_the_United_States

Don’t trust Wikipedia Charlie.  See the talk section on that article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Democratic_backsliding_in_the_United_States
 

Wikipedia cannot be neutral which their editors are biased.  I used to contribute to some articles on Wikipedia but stopped because the editors wouldn’t allow some facts they didn’t like to be included in the article.

 

Edited 5 minutes ago by Sweet

[cubsfan]

4 hours ago, Charlie said:

 

 

 

Ai´s answer to the question "Is Europe or the U.S. more democratic?"

 

Major democratic assessment organizations generally rate Europe as more democratic than the U.S. In the V-Dem Institute Democracy Report at the University of Gothenburg, Western Europe scores significantly higher, with the U.S. having lost its long-term status as a "liberal democracy" due to rapid declines in civil liberties and checks on executive power. 

 

Similarly, the Economist Intelligence Unit consistently ranks European nations—particularly Nordic countries like Norway—at the very top of its global rankings, classifying them as "full democracies". In contrast, the U.S. is categorized as a "flawed democracy". This disparity is driven by America's polarized political culture, lower levels of political participation, and struggles with government functionality. 

 

 

That's pretty funny.  

 

Ai has as much credibility as Angela Merkel who destroyed borders, energy independence, berated countries for any immigration control - and generally wrecked Germany's industrial & economic leadership (along with Europe's)

[whiskybravo]

3 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

That's pretty funny.  

 

Ai has as much credibility as Angela Merkel who destroyed borders, energy independence, berated countries for any immigration control - and generally wrecked Germany's industrial & economic leadership (along with Europe's)

Yep and she was the darling of The Economist.

[Dalal.Holdings]

17 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Don’t trust Wikipedia Charlie.  See the talk section on that article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Democratic_backsliding_in_the_United_States
 

Wikipedia cannot be neutral which their editors are biased.  I used to contribute to some articles on Wikipedia but stopped because the editors wouldn’t allow some facts they did like to be included in the article.

Quote

1. The article parrots claims made by left-wing sources, without any rebuttals or differences of opinions. 2. The article only presents one viewpoint, and uses charged opinion words like "Destroyed, Demeaned, Dessicated" that are not in the respective source. 3. The article fails to acknowledge or give any credence to the opposing view, which is subscribed to by at least half of americans politicians and voters. Instead, the article only gives credence to one viewpoint 4. The article presents all sources as facts, without acknowledging it is their own viewpoint.

 

It's really clear what's happening here, isn't it? America's Democracy ranking fell in 2016 because people elected Trump and the people who make these rankings don't like Trump. It's ironic because the people making the rankings are objecting to the Will of the American People--literally what a democracy is supposed to do.

 

I just summarized the whole thesis for all these people who rank democracies: "The People elected someone we do not like, so now they drop a few notches on the "democracy rankings" that we publish".

 

As with European leaders, "Democracy" is only valid when the electorate makes the "correct" choice. When they make the "wrong" choice, they are "far right", "dangerous", and should be censored and elections cancelled. That's basically European "democracy" in a nutshell which is why you had them slam Chat Control through despite overwhelming public opposition.

 

"Ignorance is Strength"

 

"War is Peace"

 

And

 

"It's only 'democracy' if you agree with us"

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Dalal.Holdings