cm2 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 (edited) Why bother with T dividends when you can buy $KTBA (AT&T/ BellSouth, BBB) 7% '95 in USA: 9.35% Current Yield, 9.35% Yield to Maturity, 25% discount to par value, sole underlying *BBB* bond BellSouth 7s '95 cusip 079867AP2 is 100 bid. AT&T has previously tried to buy back entire issue, 3rd parties are trying to steal from retail https://tinyurl.com/3nt74ru4 https://tinyurl.com/ycxdac2x $KTBA pays .875 on 6/1, 12/1 "Expert Market" only - no discount electronic brokers Edited June 11, 2023 by cm2 pricing change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 The issue is - you can't buy it in most accounts (Interactive Brokers, Fidelity), which is likely the reason for mispricing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBFInfinity Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Where are you buying it? Are you allowed to buy on the Expert Market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, COBFInfinity said: Where are you buying it? Are you allowed to buy on the Expert Market? I think it trades in the expert market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLion Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 So could you not buy this with a bond trading desk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, RedLion said: So could you not buy this with a bond trading desk? This is a packaged bond - it trades like a stock. Somebody is trading it - likely in Expert markets. Edited June 9, 2023 by Spekulatius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLion Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 crazy. I basically ignored this whole expert market thread some months back I think because I felt like I had no reason to figure this out, and now of course I'm intrigued. I feel like using 6% margin to buy 9.65% YTM BBB paper would be a pretty solid play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatstheofficerproblem Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Agree with @Spekulatius on this. When you're buying you have to pay the ask, however. On Schwab, it's a 6.67% yield and priced at $104.86. I'd also be 105 when it matures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesman182 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Can you buy on Schwab or it is just giving a price? I can get a price on Merrill, but I cannot buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Schwab: 1. Your order cannot be accepted. This security KTBA is accepting closing transactions only. (DO911) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBFInfinity Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Spekulatius said: This is a packaged bond - it trades like a stock. Somebody is trading it - likely in Expert markets. Yeah, there are potentially 2 ways to buy it: You are authorized to trade in the Expert Market because you are a market maker or something like that, or a brokerage firm is allowing you to buy it through them. I used to inquire if there was some way for an individual to get access to the expert market on their own, but no one seemed to know the answer, so I let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatstheofficerproblem Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 @Parsad Any plans on making a separate section for Fixed Income? Where we can discuss bonds, debt and munis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLion Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 I know there was another thread on this, but when did the expert markets become a thing? I was buying all sorts of nanocap shitcos and weird otc securities and it was never an issue. I haven’t touched anything like this since maybe 2015 or 2016 if I had to guess, did some regulatory hurdles come up in the meantime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinar Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 37 minutes ago, RedLion said: I know there was another thread on this, but when did the expert markets become a thing? I was buying all sorts of nanocap shitcos and weird otc securities and it was never an issue. I haven’t touched anything like this since maybe 2015 or 2016 if I had to guess, did some regulatory hurdles come up in the meantime? I believe in either 2020 or 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLion Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Dinar said: I believe in either 2020 or 2021. The two years we lost all our freedoms it seems. At least I have a California legal potato gun to protect my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm2 Posted June 11, 2023 Author Share Posted June 11, 2023 (edited) On 6/9/2023 at 10:42 AM, whatstheofficerproblem said: Agree with @Spekulatius on this. When you're buying you have to pay the ask, however. On Schwab, it's a 6.67% yield and priced at $104.86. I'd also be 105 when it matures. KTBA "Bonds" trade into the bid almost every day...you just need to make/advertise the best bid...topping the bid by 1/4 point has v little effect on yield. These traded almost as high as $30 during period of low/no rates. Inexperienced investors can always make an unlimited number of excuses for their own failure to seize opportunities when they present themselves. These are gold. Edited June 11, 2023 by cm2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 On 6/9/2023 at 11:03 PM, whatstheofficerproblem said: @Parsad Any plans on making a separate section for Fixed Income? Where we can discuss bonds, debt and munis? I personally hope that day will be a day I don't experience. And I don't consider my self suicidal. This is basically a place on the internet for stockpickers to meet. All the crypto stuff allowed on here only outside the investment ideas forum may suffice, just like it is possible to talk about the weather in the big apple and it's implications, expectations to future development in inflation and rates. I hope that bonds will suffer the same miserable existence as cryptocurencies here on CoBF. I'm not like Mr. Munger - All I want to know is when I get laid next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValueArb Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 On 6/9/2023 at 6:12 PM, RedLion said: The two years we lost all our freedoms it seems. At least I have a California legal potato gun to protect my family. Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in nano caps is the worst. - Thomas Paine* * he might have said "religion" instead of "nano caps" but I think if he had an interactive brokers account he'd agree with my edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValueArb Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 6 hours ago, John Hjorth said: I personally hope that day will be a day I don't experience. And I don't consider my self suicidal. This is basically a place on the internet for stockpickers to meet. All the crypto stuff allowed on here only outside the investment ideas forum may suffice, just like it is possible to talk about the weather in the big apple and it's implications, expectations to future development in inflation and rates. I hope that bonds will suffer the same miserable existence as cryptocurencies here on CoBF. I'm not like Mr. Munger - All I want to know is when I get laid next time. Bonds are basically just stocks without voting rights, and even easier to value. The market is darker and spreads are wider, but that's opportunity for a value investor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLion Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 13 minutes ago, ValueArb said: Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in nano caps is the worst. - Thomas Paine* * he might have said "religion" instead of "nano caps" but I think if he had an interactive brokers account he'd agree with my edit. Hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm2 Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) Fair amount of $KTBA trading this week - "Expert Market" only - no discount, electronic brokers Merrill Lynch, other full service brokers ok Edited June 16, 2023 by cm2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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