India

[adesigar]

I guess some people think that the US has installed leadership in all other democratic countries like Europe/Canada/Japan/Australia/India etc.

 

The US doesn’t hate China. Some people seem to think that the CCP and China are one and the same but they are not. 

[cheapguy]

>Time will tell whether that will be good for the US and Europe.   India seems to me no less nationalistic and protectionist than China.  

 

Can you write more on being nationalistic.

Edited June 28, 2023 by cheapguy

[Luke]

2 hours ago, adesigar said:

I guess some people think that the US has installed leadership in all other democratic countries like Europe/Canada/Japan/Australia/India etc.

 

The US doesn’t hate China. Some people seem to think that the CCP and China are one and the same but they are not. 

Wouldnt have been the first time: 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/jan/17/patrice-lumumba-50th-anniversary-assassination

 

 

When the atrocities related to brutal economic exploitation in Leopold's Congo Free State resulted in millions of fatalities, the US joined other world powers to force Belgium to take over the country as a regular colony. And it was during the colonial period that the US acquired a strategic stake in the enormous natural wealth of the Congo, following its use of the uranium from Congolese mines to manufacture the first atomic weapons, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs.

 

With the outbreak of the cold war, it was inevitable that the US and its western allies would not be prepared to let Africans have effective control over strategic raw materials, lest these fall in the hands of their enemies in the Soviet camp. It is in this regard that Patrice Lumumba's determination to achieve genuine independence and to have full control over Congo's resources in order to utilise them to improve the living conditions of our people was perceived as a threat to western interests. To fight him, the US and Belgium used all the tools and resources at their disposal, including the United Nations secretariat, under Dag Hammarskjöld and Ralph Bunche, to buy the support of Lumumba's Congolese rivals , and hired killers.

 

Trying to prevent Independence of the Kongo, the country with the richest mineral depot of africa...

 

You cant even make this shit up...

[Luke]

2 hours ago, adesigar said:

The US doesn’t hate China. Some people seem to think that the CCP and China are one and the same but they are not. 

The US also didnt hate the congo, but the leadership didnt do what they wanted so they had to kill him and remove him. 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Luca

[RetroRanger]

I still dont understand why India seems to be the solution to everything. Despite beeing democratic, there are a lot of conflicts in the country ( religious, fraud and corrupt politicans and institutions, murdered politicans) . They have their own unresolved Taiwan with Pakistan. That is still unresolved and in the 70s their was some atomic testing to provoce each other. 

 

Also the country has big problems with labor. Because of their huge population they need many talent by their own, but the skilled once migrate elsewhere or are used for foreigner treatment ( good doctors prefer international people ). 

 

I currently read many books on India and this is a country that never has been very stable ( partly thanks to UK .... ) ! Perhaps i am underestimating the potential, but there is still a lot to proof and a lot to happen to make India work ( as a country and therefore stable partner ). 

[Viking]

28 minutes ago, RetroRanger said:

I still dont understand why India seems to be the solution to everything. Despite beeing democratic, there are a lot of conflicts in the country ( religious, fraud and corrupt politicans and institutions, murdered politicans) . They have their own unresolved Taiwan with Pakistan. That is still unresolved and in the 70s their was some atomic testing to provoce each other. 

 

Also the country has big problems with labor. Because of their huge population they need many talent by their own, but the skilled once migrate elsewhere or are used for foreigner treatment ( good doctors prefer international people ). 

 

I currently read many books on India and this is a country that never has been very stable ( partly thanks to UK .... ) ! Perhaps i am underestimating the potential, but there is still a lot to proof and a lot to happen to make India work ( as a country and therefore stable partner ). 

I don’t think India is the ‘solution to everything’. Rather, it is well positioned right now. Lots of tail winds. So this should lead to above trend economic growth in the coming years. India is a developing economy… so yes, lots of issues need to be sorted out. Just like every other country at a similar stage of development. Pakistan is a sovereign country so i am not sure how it compares to Taiwan. Bottom line, i hope India figures it out. Prosperity is a good thing. 

[ICUMD]

41 minutes ago, RetroRanger said:

I still dont understand why India seems to be the solution to everything. Despite beeing democratic, there are a lot of conflicts in the country ( religious, fraud and corrupt politicans and institutions, murdered politicans) . They have their own unresolved Taiwan with Pakistan. That is still unresolved and in the 70s their was some atomic testing to provoce each other. 

 

Also the country has big problems with labor. Because of their huge population they need many talent by their own, but the skilled once migrate elsewhere or are used for foreigner treatment ( good doctors prefer international people ). 

 

I currently read many books on India and this is a country that never has been very stable ( partly thanks to UK .... ) ! Perhaps i am underestimating the potential, but there is still a lot to proof and a lot to happen to make India work ( as a country and therefore stable partner ). 

 

I may be biased since I am a first generation Indo Canadian, but IMO:

 

For countries and economies to grow, they need a large and effective workforce. (1+ billion people ). Secondly, they need access to education for upward mobility. (Internet) Thirdly, they need leadership and hope. (Modi, despite his criticisms)

 

India is well positioned in all three regards. Internet and connectivity has given opportunity to millions of young Indians to learn how to improve their quality of life. Imagine villagers now having the tools to earn spots in top educational institutions and help act as inspiration for the next generation.

 

Skilled Indian diaspora are ambassadors and mentors for people in the homeland. For instance, I'm sure Sundar Pichai has inspired millions in terms of what can be achieved.

 

Personally, I don't think the politics of a few will suffocate the struggle of many. 

[RetroRanger]

52 minutes ago, Viking said:

I don’t think India is the ‘solution to everything’. Rather, it is well positioned right now. Lots of tail winds. So this should lead to above trend economic growth in the coming years. India is a developing economy… so yes, lots of issues need to be sorted out. Just like every other country at a similar stage of development. Pakistan is a sovereign country so i am not sure how it compares to Taiwan. Bottom line, i hope India figures it out. Prosperity is a good thing. 

 

I mean it from a conflict perspective. Both Pakistan and India want the Kashmir region for them. Pakistan is in a enduring conflict about the right ownership, which peaked in the 70s with nuclear threats. This is still unresolved. 

https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/98-570.html

 

"Internet and connectivity has given opportunity to millions of young Indians to learn how to improve their quality of life"

Yes and still so many roads need to be build, people have internet but no water pipe in their village ( as an extreme example).

 

"Personally, I don't think the politics of a few will suffocate the struggle of many. "

I really hope so, in the book i have read there talked about many religious assaults an attacks and besides politically saying they are equal , its not in practice . An that in the recent time ( 20-30 years).

And their is the caste system .. which is more like a mid evil system.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by RetroRanger

[ICUMD]

@RetroRanger yes roads, pipes are infrastructure that need to be developed, and will provide compounding GDP benefits as they become established.  A tremendous opportunity as I see it to bring millions 'online'

 

Geopolitical conflict will always be there. Most countries have armies and politicians to protect their territorial rights. 

 

Caste system-  education is the best way to level a playing field and allow upward mobility.  In fact, even in North America, there is an informal caste system.  Don't children of actors and actresses follow in their parents footsteps? A Rockefeller or Hilton inherit millions or billions while being 'socialites'? A Trudeau become prime minister even though he's a drama teacher?  Aren't Natives and Blacks unduly persecuted?  

 

Yet, many more people from humble beginnings can rise to power both in India and N. America:  like Modi. Like Pichai.

Edited June 28, 2023 by ICUMD

[RetroRanger]

50 minutes ago, ICUMD said:

@RetroRanger yes roads, pipes are infrastructure that need to be developed, and will provide compounding GDP benefits as they become established.  A tremendous opportunity as I see it to bring millions 'online'

 

Geopolitical conflict will always be there. Most countries have armies and politicians to protect their territorial rights. 

 

Caste system-  education is the best way to level a playing field and allow upward mobility.  In fact, even in North America, there is an informal caste system.  Don't children of actors and actresses follow in their parents footsteps? A Rockefeller or Hilton inherit millions or billions while being 'socialites'? A Trudeau become prime minister even though he's a drama teacher?  Aren't Natives and Blacks unduly persecuted?  

 

Yet, many more people from humble beginnings can rise to power both in India and N. America:  like Modi. Like Pichai.

 

Youre obviously right in terms of caste system. Probably this exists everywhere. craftmanship in germany was at my youth seen as a "low IQ business" so we should "study" and people who studied would have a higher "reputation". 

 

But to be fair it it not as strict/extreme as in India atm, with people cannot marry into different caste systems ( at least its hard) etc. 

 

Education will be key. On of the prime things Mohnish Pabrai with his Dakshana Foundation is fighting. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by RetroRanger

[rohitc99]

5 hours ago, RetroRanger said:

I still dont understand why India seems to be the solution to everything. Despite beeing democratic, there are a lot of conflicts in the country ( religious, fraud and corrupt politicans and institutions, murdered politicans) . They have their own unresolved Taiwan with Pakistan. That is still unresolved and in the 70s their was some atomic testing to provoce each other. 

 

Also the country has big problems with labor. Because of their huge population they need many talent by their own, but the skilled once migrate elsewhere or are used for foreigner treatment ( good doctors prefer international people ). 

 

I currently read many books on India and this is a country that never has been very stable ( partly thanks to UK .... ) ! Perhaps i am underestimating the potential, but there is still a lot to proof and a lot to happen to make India work ( as a country and therefore stable partner ). 

Why does India have to be a solution for anything. Like all other countries, they are doing what is best for them (finally !!)

 

They have done ok in the past inspite of all kinds of bad policies and all no existent infrastructure. 

 

I am from India, grew up there and moved to the US 20 yrs back. Still have my roots there and visit quite often. Not sure what the country not being stable means ? 70+ years of democracy, no coups, people get to vote. freedom of speech and action (maybe not as much as some countries in the west)

 

Somehow the view from far appears more chaotic than the reality.

[rohitc99]

The amount of infrastructure build out happening in india is enormous. Metros in 70+ cities, highways, bridges, airports, railways, electrification. Water for all. There is a lot which is happening which is not reported in the media in the west which is still backward looking

 

you can check some of the infrastructure companies in the country to see how they are doing to get a feel

 

[Xerxes]

 

Kashmir’ is very much Pakistan/India’ Taiwan. The pillar upon which their foreign policy and their relationship toward each other has been shaped. IMHO. 
 

There was once upon time an East Pakistan, lost forever (to Pakistan government that is), and now called Bangladesh as a sovereign state. 
 

[Xerxes]

5 hours ago, Luca said:

The US also didnt hate the congo, but the leadership didnt do what they wanted so they had to kill him and remove him. 

 

 

Luca. 
 

By now you should know that whenever West does something stupid (coup d’état, invasions, etc) the next generation in the West usually has a hard time remembering. They “file it” under “ohh that was the Cold War so it was ok” and move on some other fun things. 
 

Don’t fight it. There is no use. 

[RetroRanger]

"70+ years of democracy, no coups, people get to vote. freedom of speech and action (maybe not as much as some countries in the west)"

 

yes sorry my knowlegde is just book knowlegde and i agree this can be more dramatic, since much information over years is shrinked into 200 pages.  I meant the amount of political murdering since 1920 ( people were elected 6 months there , beeing murdered ) is insane. Corruption was a heavy topic despite beeing democratic. Also the long fight for indepency (against UK , etc). Religious murdering ( the train incident in Mumbai 2010). 

 

I agree, perhaps sounds shrinked down very chaotic, and the reality is not that dramatic in every day India. 

 

[rohitc99]

The funny thing is i get to hear about their views of US from my family in India and they assume that there are shootings all the time, everywhere. There is a fire or hurricane or some craziness in Washington all the time 

 

Ofcourse the amazing amount of innovation and work never gets reported. and most people have normal lives and go about their day

 

Same for india - only the drama gets reported. the conflict with pakistan is more like a proxy fight between india and china now and hardly impacts the economy or the day to day life

 

The key change most indians have yearned for is access to better quality of life which is now improving very rapidly at the ground level. for years, nothing happened and now whenever i visit, i can see change. In the past, emigrating to the west was a ticket to a better life. That started changing 10 yrs back and i know a lot of bright people feel staying put and doing a startup is a better option

 

that said, tolerance in the society is down for sure

[adesigar]

On 7/3/2023 at 12:21 AM, Haryana said:

Bank Giant Bigger Than Morgan Stanley Arises From India Merger

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-30/india-s-hdfc-vaults-into-ranks-of-world-s-most-valuable-banks

"

HDFC surges ahead of banks including HSBC Holdings Plc and Citigroup Inc. The bank will also leave behind its Indian peers State Bank of India and ICICI Bank, with market capitalizations of about $62 billion and $79 billion, respectively, as of June 22. 

“Worldwide there are very few banks, which can at this scale and size, still aspire to double over a period of four years,” Suresh Ganapathy, head of financial services research for India at Macquarie Group Ltd.’s brokerage unit, said in a Bloomberg TV interview. The bank expects to grow at 18% to 20%, there is very good visibility in earnings growth, and they plan to double their branches in the next four years, he said. “HDFC Bank will remain a pretty formidable institution.”

"

 

Best Bank in India. I remember when my parents bought this at the IPO. Its probably one of the best investments they ever made. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by adesigar

[Haryana]

2023 Invesco Global Sovereign Asset Management Study

 

https://www.fundresearch.de/Invesco-Global-Sovereign-Asset-Management-Study-2023-FINAL.pdf

 

"India exemplifies the attributes sought
by sovereign investors. Viewed increasingly
positively for its improved business and political
stability, favourable demographics, regulatory
initiatives, and a friendly environment for
sovereign investors, India has now overtaken
China as the most attractive Emerging Market
for investing in Emerging Market debt"

[jobyts]

In the World Press Freedom Index, India ranks 161 out of 180 countries. It really degraded in recent years.

[tnp20]

17 hours ago, jobyts said:

In the World Press Freedom Index, India ranks 161 out of 180 countries. It really degraded in recent years.

 

I am very familiar with the country. The ranking seems bizarre from my personal experience.  There is no suppression of business and economy related news. However India is a very diverse country of many different religions and so they do suppress news that is inflammatory towards any religion to prevent religious riots. The Kashmir news is also controlled due to sensitivity of national/geopolitics.

 

I am frankly quite amazed at the difference in local perception and western perception both for India and China. My suggestion is get on the ground realistic view of a country and look at things from their shoes rather than applying a Western lens and who said Western lens is the correct one. Imagine India and China constantly showing homelessness and political dysfunction in the USA as constant every day headline...you'd think the USA is a shit hole. As always many shades of gray and the primary shade of gray you are interested in (as far as these boards are concerned) is the one that impacts the investment case.

[Spekulatius]

2 hours ago, tnp20 said:

 

I am very familiar with the country. The ranking seems bizarre from my personal experience.  There is no suppression of business and economy related news. However India is a very diverse country of many different religions and so they do suppress news that is inflammatory towards any religion to prevent religious riots. The Kashmir news is also controlled due to sensitivity of national/geopolitics.

 

I am frankly quite amazed at the difference in local perception and western perception both for India and China. My suggestion is get on the ground realistic view of a country and look at things from their shoes rather than applying a Western lens and who said Western lens is the correct one. Imagine India and China constantly showing homelessness and political dysfunction in the USA as constant every day headline...you'd think the USA is a shit hole. As always many shades of gray and the primary shade of gray you are interested in (as far as these boards are concerned) is the one that impacts the investment case.

The claim is that media takeovers have impacted pluralism in india:

 In India, media takeovers by oligarchs close to Prime Minister Modi have jeopardised pluralism,

 

In this ranking system, India ranks below Venezuela (#159). Not sure this makes sense.

[Luke]

4 hours ago, tnp20 said:

 

I am frankly quite amazed at the difference in local perception and western perception both for India and China. My suggestion is get on the ground realistic view of a country and look at things from their shoes rather than applying a Western lens and who said Western lens is the correct one. Imagine India and China constantly showing homelessness and political dysfunction in the USA as constant every day headline...you'd think the USA is a shit hole. As always many shades of gray and the primary shade of gray you are interested in (as far as these boards are concerned) is the one that impacts the investment case.

Peak comedy is the english /China thread on reddit. 95% westerners talking about why China is such a horrible country, why it will fail etc.

 

Its becoming some kind of doom porn for average westerners that have to cope with their own shitty living situation with fantasizing many people in a foreign country being worse off then they are. Whatever you search on the internet now with china, most of it is in a negative light, if there is something positive,  its called off as propaganda and people will make the expected comments...

 

Youth unemployment in China is at 20%-->Horrible, country will go back to 0

 

Youth unemployment in sweden as of today: 25%--> Nobody cares

 

Buddy of mine was at my place last days and visited, we also had the china talk, i made some positive comments about the country, how I am impressed by their developments, level of technology, quality of businesses and even some political interventions that are miles smarter than what my home country has ever done. I received the immediate back lash about the danger of china, the concentration camps etc, basically the only thing we hear in german media as expected...

 

I asked him about one positive thing that he can say about china and that question shocked him

Edited August 7, 2023 by Luca
Grammar/some addition

[Haryana]

On 8/7/2023 at 3:27 PM, Luca said:

 

Its becoming some kind of doom porn for average westerners that have to cope with their own shitty living situation with fantasizing many people in a foreign country being worse off then they are.

 

 

That also was explanation for how Slumdog Millionaire dominated Oscars during the depths of 2008-09 GFC.

 

[UK]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-18/stocks-euphoria-in-india-draws-warning-from-top-performing-fund?srnd=premium-europe

 

“You are in a market where if you think about a stock from an investment point of view, it rises 40% before you even decide to buy it,” Bhan told Bloomberg News in an interview at his Mumbai office. “That is clearly reflective of froth,” said Bhan, who oversees the equivalent of $17.4 billion in equity assets under management.

[UK]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-18/iphone-maker-foxconn-aims-to-double-india-investment-employment?srnd=premium-europe#xj4y7vzkg

 

Apple Inc. partner Foxconn Technology Group plans to double its investment and employment in India, highlighting an accelerating manufacturing shift away from China as Washington-Beijing tensions grow.

...

The investment plans of the Taiwanese company, also known for its flagship unit Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., include a 300-acre site close to the airport in Bengaluru, the capital of Karnataka, Bloomberg News previously reported. That plant is likely to assemble iPhones and expected to create about 100,000 jobs.