China

[james22]

3 hours ago, Luca said:

In the US, the country is run for capital owners, the same is true in most western countries. In China and Asia, the country is run more for society and the people. 

 

LOL

 

Under capitalism, rich people become powerful. But under socialism, powerful people become rich. ...

 

But at least in America, becoming powerful isn’t the only way to become rich. Under socialism, you’re either powerful, or you’re poor.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/05/16/socialism-venezuela-ussr-cuba-sanders-clinton-elections-2016-column/32613393/

 

[crs223]

2 hours ago, Luca said:

The CCP is tackling exactly this, prosperity for the countryside and a less "top down" economy, as Biden put it

 

But what are the reasons people are fleeing the country?  I don't believe it's all about banning girly-men, organ harvesting, and jobs/money.  There must be something more fundamental.

[cubsfan]

You really love China @Luca !

 

There are 330 million citizens in the USA.  There are far more Chinese citizens than 330M that live in POVERTY.

 

And of course, China is one of the most racist countries in the world.

Try being a Muslim or black in China. Talk about discrimination!

 

other than that the place is great 

[Gregmal]

21 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

You really love China @Luca !

 

There are 330 million citizens in the USA.  There are far more Chinese citizens than 330M that live in POVERTY.

 

And of course, China is one of the most racist countries in the world.

Try being a Muslim or black in China. Talk about discrimination!

 

other than that the place is great 

Do you see what’s been unveiled as culturally embedded in our highest and supposed “brightest” institutions lately? 

[Luke]

1 hour ago, cubsfan said:

You really love China @Luca !

 

There are 330 million citizens in the USA.  There are far more Chinese citizens than 330M that live in POVERTY.

 

And of course, China is one of the most racist countries in the world.

Try being a Muslim or black in China. Talk about discrimination!

 

other than that the place is great 

Yes because in China the industrial revolution happened way later but they are making up for it now and as you can see with CCP communication, prosperity for everyone is important to their vision. @james22 I have linked OECD studies in here that showed this level of inequality is unhealthy for the economy, China is not socialist but they are less accepting of the level of "abuse" and elitism that exists in the US, for good reason, even a capitalist like Biden sees it now. And if you think that even more liberalization to markets and tax cuts for the wealthy will make the economy better for bottom and middle class i disagree and the research does too. 

 

Regarding racism in china, yeah, might be, all power to them, their country, they decide who they let in. Kind of Jealous for them because the west is force feeded with migrants since a couple of years

[Luke]

19 hours ago, crs223 said:

 

But what are the reasons people are fleeing the country?  I don't believe it's all about banning girly-men, organ harvesting, and jobs/money.  There must be something more fundamental.

You can find millions of people who love their country in china but the west only hears to the negative voices to continue their propaganda to create acceptance by the population for eventual military confrontation or further cut off from markets etc. I am waiting for bans on cheap china goods to save our local retailers because they cant compete. Consumers cant win and China just cant take marketshare! 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Luca

[cubsfan]

35 minutes ago, Luca said:

Yes because in China the industrial revolution happened way later but they are making up for it now and as you can see with CCP communication, prosperity for everyone is important to their vision. @james22 I have linked OECD studies in here that showed this level of inequality is unhealthy for the economy, China is not socialist but they are less accepting of the level of "abuse" and elitism that exists in the US, for good reason, even a capitalist like Biden sees it now. And if you think that even more liberalization to markets and tax cuts for the wealthy will make the economy better for bottom and middle class i disagree and the research does too. 

 

Regarding racism in china, yeah, might be, all power to them, their country, they decide who they let in. Kind of Jealous for them because the west is force feeded with migrants since a couple of years

Accepting of abuse and elitism???  
 

Seriously?  China is ALL about conformity and suppression of individual rights to the State.  
 

BUT - I will grant you, with China Joe is charge - the US is headed that way!

[cubsfan]

37 minutes ago, Luca said:

You can find millions of people who love their country in china but the west only hears to the negative voices to continue their propaganda to create acceptance by the population for eventual military confrontation or further cut off from markets etc. I am waiting for bans on cheap china goods to save our local retailers because they cant compete. Consumers cant win and China just cant take marketshare! 

Show me one of the several million Muslims, who are Chinese citizens- who love China. 
 

How does one love his country from the inside of a labor/concentration camp??

[Luke]

Just now, cubsfan said:

Accepting of abuse and elitism???  

Well, Amazon installs heat maps to prevent workers from unionizing and keep them in their shitty salary and the level of ghettoization is also incredible with life expectancy rates differing drastically from Bangladesh levels to high developed levels. China doesn't like that hence the policies and focus on common prosperity.

Just now, cubsfan said:

Seriously?  China is ALL about conformity and suppression of individual rights to the State.  

Thats not what i meant, they are totalitarian but essentially now really run with a focus on the people.

Just now, cubsfan said:

BUT - I will grant you, with China Joe is charge - the US is headed that way!

I said above that if you think reducing taxes hard for the top 30% or making the market even more free will lead to any changes in US wealth distribution, we disagree and the research shows it too.

[Luke]

1 minute ago, cubsfan said:

Show me one of the several million Muslims, who are Chinese citizens- who love China. 
 

How does one love his country from the inside of a labor/concentration camp??

Yeah, they dont want to deal with islam and islam isnt particularly a peaceful or cooperative religion as can be seen by recent events. Those people probably dont identify themselves as chinese.

[cubsfan]

Just now, Luca said:

Yeah, they dont want to deal with islam and islam isnt particularly a peaceful or cooperative religion as can be seen by recent events. Those people probably dont identify themselves as chinese.

Especially those women they force to have abortions. Eliminate the race like good Nazis.

 

@Luca I’ll put you down as a hardcore Commie!

[Spekulatius]

@Luca needs to move to China as the future there is so bright that one needs to wear shades.

I said this before, what is preventing him from moving from a company with a crummy future like Germany to the rising empire or the East where common prosperity makes everyone rich, just like Karl Marx predicted.

[Luke]

22 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Especially those women they force to have abortions. Eliminate the race like good Nazis.

 

@Luca I’ll put you down as a hardcore Commie!

What do theses abortions and genocide have anything to do with what i said about chinas future? I am also literally on an investing board and think capitalism is brilliant, if it is made right.commie?  You are saying this just to denounce arguments.

[Luke]

19 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

@Luca needs to move to China as the future there is so bright that one needs to wear shades.

I said this before, what is preventing him from moving from a company with a crummy future like Germany to the rising empire or the East where common prosperity makes everyone rich, just like Karl Marx predicted.

I cant speak mandarin and you need at least 2 years full time to learn it, i have 0 personal contacts there, no family and friends. Still i believe that the future for most chinese citizens look great and that that country will continue to impress! 

[cubsfan]

25 minutes ago, Luca said:

What do theses abortions and genocide have anything to do with what i said about chinas future? I am also literally on an investing board and think capitalism is brilliant, if it is made right.commie?  You are saying this just to denounce arguments.

@Luca - nah - you just painted Islam with the broad brush of not feeling Chinese. Hence, the justification for forced abortions and concentration camps for Uyghurs.

 

Brilliant China - so much for religious freedom and individual tolerance- problem solved.

 

You keep up the cheerleading!

 

 

[Parsad]

3 hours ago, Luca said:

Yeah, they dont want to deal with islam and islam isnt particularly a peaceful or cooperative religion as can be seen by recent events. Those people probably dont identify themselves as chinese.

 

3 hours ago, cubsfan said:

Especially those women they force to have abortions. Eliminate the race like good Nazis.

 

@Luca I’ll put you down as a hardcore Commie!

 

2 hours ago, cubsfan said:

@Luca - nah - you just painted Islam with the broad brush of not feeling Chinese. Hence, the justification for forced abortions and concentration camps for Uyghurs.

 

Brilliant China - so much for religious freedom and individual tolerance- problem solved.

 

You keep up the cheerleading!

 

 

 

I've been to China, have done business there and have plenty of friends who either live there or do business there.  I don't think either of you are correct!

 

I took a small team of people down there when I went of various ethnicities...didn't face any racism or bias at all.  In fact, the Chinese people we met with everywhere were welcoming, wonderful people...no different than many of the people I meet in the U.S. or Canada.  There are cultural differences, but they all have the same goals...peace, prosperity and good health for their families.  

 

That being said, like many regions in the world that have decent economies, there are innate risks to operating there.  The CCP is more of a heavy-handed government...they don't like what you are doing or saying, they will essentially cancel your business license and all contracts.  You are done!  If you are a Chinese resident...there may be more significant repercussions.

 

In terms of human rights abuses, I'm sure there are plenty, not unlike Saudi Arabia, India, even some areas of the U.S. presently with plenty of antisemitism, antipalestinian sentiment!  Almost any country you go to in this world, you will find something to complain about in terms of human rights.  Canada is one of the most progressive countries in the world, with significant wealth, yet there is a 5 block by 5 block area of Vancouver (Hastings & Main) that is essentially like parts of Gaza but with mental health issues, homelessness and drug abuse...as nasty a slum as you will see anywhere...smack dab in the center of what used to be our core business area 50 years ago!

 

There are many good things about China, just like there are many good things about the U.S.  There are also many bad things about both countries...including their politics.  Is U.S. politics any better than anywhere else these days?  I mean it's a shitshow from the left and the right.  You've got dueling 80+ year old frontrunners...neither of whom should be in office...and one of them is just a complete moron these days and indicted on some 90 plus charges!  Really, this is the best of America?!

 

So, before we go throwing stones at China or anyone else, we need to really look hard at ourselves first and say...we could be doing better and set the example for the world...Canada included!  Cheers!

 

 

[cubsfan]

^^^ Not bad @Parsad - the US is indeed a shitshow!

[Parsad]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/11/economy/china-cpi-deflation-worsens-intl-hnk/index.html

 

Cheers!

[Luke]

[rogermunibond]

Well said @Parsad

[james22]

China’s economic plan is bankrupt

 

The model that created a superpower is failing

 

https://unherd.com/2023/12/chinas-economic-plan-is-bankrupt/

[james22]

It's starting to look like China regrets its private-enterprise crackdown

 

China held its annual Central Economic Work Conference, or CEWC, on Monday and Tuesday. It was attended by all of the country’s top leaders, including President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Qiang.

 

A document released after the conference sets the agenda for China’s economy — the second-largest economy in the world — for the next year. And strikingly, this year’s readout acknowledges that China needs to prioritize economic development.

 

“Next year, we must persist in seeking progress while maintaining stability, promote stability through growth, and establish the new before breaking the old,” states the meeting’s official readout.

 

The wording in this document suggests “hints of remorse at overzealous growth-negative policy implementation,” Rory Green, the chief China economist at GlobalData.TS Lombard, wrote in a note on Wednesday.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-crackdown-regret-central-economic-work-conference-readout-analysis-economy-2023-12

[Luke]

1 hour ago, james22 said:

It's starting to look like China regrets its private-enterprise crackdown

 

China held its annual Central Economic Work Conference, or CEWC, on Monday and Tuesday. It was attended by all of the country’s top leaders, including President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Qiang.

 

A document released after the conference sets the agenda for China’s economy — the second-largest economy in the world — for the next year. And strikingly, this year’s readout acknowledges that China needs to prioritize economic development.

 

“Next year, we must persist in seeking progress while maintaining stability, promote stability through growth, and establish the new before breaking the old,” states the meeting’s official readout.

 

The wording in this document suggests “hints of remorse at overzealous growth-negative policy implementation,” Rory Green, the chief China economist at GlobalData.TS Lombard, wrote in a note on Wednesday.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-crackdown-regret-central-economic-work-conference-readout-analysis-economy-2023-12

Yep! They will learn and shift, same happened with Covid

[Castanza]

https://www.barrons.com/articles/alibaba-jd-com-stock-price-china-stimulus-2af87e63

 

"The People’s Bank of China offered commercial lenders a net 800 billion yuan ($113 billion) in one-year loans Friday—a record cash injection into the banking system through its one-year policy. 

In a bid to boost the country’s struggling property market, Beijing and Shanghai implemented new measures Thursday including cutting down-payment ratios to buy homes and extending mortgage repayment deadlines.

There could be more, as state media reported this week that China will step up policy adjustments to support an economic recovery in 2024."

[Parsad]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-real-estate-meltdown-battering-230000975.html

 

Cheers!