China

[Luke]

This should make our republican americans happy and positive about china: 

 

This year, the regulators are also ramping up restrictions on vulgarity and gender-fluid content for children. Video platforms have also been ordered to scrub content with effeminate men or “other abnormal aesthetics.”

 

Enforcement of heteronormativity is also on the rise. In July, WeChat permanently banned nearly all public accounts created and run by LGBTQ groups at Chinese colleges for no specific reason. In November, LGBT Rights Advocacy China, an influential nonprofit organization, announced it was “suspending all operations” for an indefinite period of time. Bilibili — one of the few pockets of gay content online — has lately begun censoring itself.

[Luke]

Earlier this year, for example, the Ministry of Education announced a plan to “cultivate masculinity” in schoolboys, requiring schools to increase the number of gym teachers and promote more sports. The initiatives are as much about health as they are about culture.

[Luke]

6 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

 

LOL

 

If that were so, why wasn't China more successful prior to the 1978 market-oriented reforms?

 

Why has China been less successful since Xi has reasserted state control?

Complete state planning doesnt work obviously, we also dont have that right now. But a government that interferes with the markets was a key to success for china.

[james22]

Just now, Luca said:

But a government that interferes with the markets was a key to success for china.

 

Nothing allocates resources more efficiently than the market.

 

∴ China's success is inversely related to its market interference.

[james22]

Sly, Soviet-style jokes are enjoying a subtle revival on Chinese social media platforms. Their art resides in being too obscure for censors to understand yet clear enough for cynics to chuckle at their mockery.

 

Some are so esoteric that their satire is confirmed only by the censors’ decision to delete them — echoing the cat-and-mouse dynamic that distinguished dissident humour in the former Soviet Union. One joke this week monitored by the China Digital Times, a US-based site that covers Chinese affairs, belonged to this genre.

 

It read: “While out and about on vacation, I stubbed my toe on something. Upon closer inspection, I saw it was a bronze lamp. It was smudged, so I picked it up and gave it a good wipe — and out popped a genie! The genie said it could grant me any wish. ‘Is that so?’ I said. ‘Well then, could you make you-know-who you-know-what?’ No sooner had the words escaped my lips than the genie rushed over, clamped my mouth shut, and asked: ‘Are we even allowed to say that?’”

 

The author’s account appears to have been shut down after the joke was deleted. “Of course, by banning the joke and its author, censors merely proved the punchline,” commented the China Digital Times. “This is not the first time that ‘Soviet-style’ jokes have become Chinese realities.”

 

https://archive.ph/4JcXa

[Luke]

12 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

Nothing allocates resources more efficiently than the market.

 

∴ China's success is inversely related to its market interference.

And thats where we disagree. In my opinion we dont live under capitalism, we have STATE capitalism eveywhere, also in the US and also in China, with differing strenght of intervention. 

 

Pure capitalism would self implode and will never work, unregulated markets will self implode. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Luca

[Spekulatius]

I am still waiting for the post where @Luca decides to move to China and shows a pic of himself living in a concrete sewer tube like Diogenes lived in a barrel.

[cubsfan]

17 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

I am still waiting for the post where @Luca decides to move to China and shows a pic of himself living in a concrete sewer tube like Diogenes lived in a barrel.

Oh shit - spit my coke out!

[Luke]

35 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

I am still waiting for the post where @Luca decides to move to China and shows a pic of himself living in a concrete sewer tube like Diogenes lived in a barrel.

 

 

 

Dont dare me!

[james22]

1 hour ago, Luca said:

And thats where we disagree.

 

Yeesh.

 

Has China interfered with the market more or less since 1978? Has China been more or less successful since then?

 

Only in your Bizarro World does central planning get credit for the success that followed its reform.

[Luke]

2 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

Yeesh.

 

Has China interfered with the market more or less since 1978? Has China been more or less successful since then?

 

Only in your Bizarro World does central planning get credit for the success that followed its reform.

A fully planned economy doesnt work obviously. They are not returning to it though and I think the regulations they are passing and planning to pass will improve Chinas trajectory as a whole. 

[james22]

11 minutes ago, Luca said:

They are not returning to it though and I think the regulations they are passing and planning to pass will improve Chinas trajectory as a whole. 

 

Why would you think that?

 

Understand, the (successful) bet in 1978 would have been on increased market liberalization, not central planning.

 

Now you're betting against that?

[Luke]

8 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

Why would you think that?

 

Understand, the (successful) bet in 1978 would have been on increased market liberalization, not central planning.

 

Now you're betting against that?

Because that was probably one of the biggest humiliations for China, maybe still is and that they learned incredibly much since then, have world-class scientist and universities, people in the administration that have advanced economics degrees etc. They wont go back.

[Spekulatius]

1 hour ago, Luca said:

 

 

 

Dont dare me!

This looks heavily photoshopped. l also thought you were younger.

[tnp20]

https://www.dataroma.com/m/m_activity.php?m=AM&typ=b

 

Tepper Q2 buys.

 

Looks like he is BULLISH on China and Chips (AI proxy/E-commerce/Cloud/Mobile proxy).

 

Xi is at odds with lot of wise comments coming out China...he is the trouble maker but China will still be here long after he is gone.

 

China will do well long term, no doubt about it, even if its growth rate slows down to 3-4% long term and despite the demographics.

 

What is not clear is if foreign investors will do well. I happen to think they will and next 2 years will prove that. 

 

The China risk debate has bee hashed out on this board many times in great detail so I am not going to add more here.

 

Select Chinese monopolies with enormous growth prospects are fish in a barrel right here. The timing is also "now". I am taking shots.

Edited August 15, 2023 by tnp20

[cubsfan]

^^^ I think that’ makes sense. China will do well - but foreign investors may not. Again comes down to trust in the system.

 

lots of brilliant, talented people won’t protect the investor

[mcliu]

5 hours ago, cubsfan said:

Yeah , it’s a good thing they built all those ghost cities, so people could live in concrete pipes.

Do ghost cities actually exist or is it just Western propaganda?

 

For example: CNN reports in 2017 a subway built to nowhere:

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/chongqing-china-metro-station-nowhere/index.html#:~:text=Next station is ... nowhere,the middle of a wasteland.&text=Pristine and barely used%3A Very,according to a station employee.

 

Today there's an entire city built up around the station:

 

 

[Luke]

39 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

^^^ I think that’ makes sense. China will do well - but foreign investors may not. Again comes down to trust in the system.

 

lots of brilliant, talented people won’t protect the investor

Thats why i have a bias for prosus, they have the close contact to tencent management and come in obviously with a shareholder value perspective. The buybacks for prosus where initiated with tencent together if i remember correctly. 

 

Will foreign investors do well? I think the chances are increasing, even china securities watchdog asks for buybacks and cares about the stock market: 

 

https://www.scmp.com/business/banking-finance/article/3173959/chinas-securities-watchdog-renews-call-firms-buy-back

 

47 minutes ago, tnp20 said:

https://www.dataroma.com/m/m_activity.php?m=AM&typ=b

 

Tepper Q2 buys.

 

Looks like he is BULLISH on China and Chips (AI proxy/E-commerce/Cloud/Mobile proxy).

 

Xi is at odds with lot of wise comments coming out China...he is the trouble maker but China will still be here long after he is gone.

 

China will do well long term, no doubt about it, even if its growth rate slows down to 3-4% long term and despite the demographics.

 

What is not clear is if foreign investors will do well. I happen to think they will and next 2 years will prove that. 

 

The China risk debate has bee hashed out on this board many times in great detail so I am not going to add more here.

 

Select Chinese monopolies with enormous growth prospects are fish in a barrel right here. The timing is also "now". I am taking shots.

Yep! appreciate your posts a lot @tnp20, good to hear i am not completely alone here, although it feels like i am getting a larger discount, buying when almost everybody doesnt is psychologically difficult. And I completely agree, competition is fierce, retail got more difficult. Still Alibaba is cheap, so is JD. 

 

What chinese stocks do you own besides Baba? 

 

Cheers guys and happy evening!

 

 

[Spekulatius]

31 minutes ago, mcliu said:

Do ghost cities actually exist or is it just Western propaganda?

 

For example: CNN reports in 2017 a subway built to nowhere:

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/chongqing-china-metro-station-nowhere/index.html#:~:text=Next station is ... nowhere,the middle of a wasteland.&text=Pristine and barely used%3A Very,according to a station employee.

 

Today there's an entire city built up around the station:

 

 

These ghost cities probably exist but it's probably overblown what we read about them. Some of this is because the way the Chinese build cities or part of cities with tons of high rise condos build at the same time - it's more work in progress than a ghost city.

 

There is a lot of un-inhabited residential real estate around though and that is simply because a condo loses value if you rent it out in China. That's because it's not in mint condition any more (or so I have been told by Chinese when I asked them about it).

[Parsad]

4 hours ago, Luca said:

This should make our republican americans happy and positive about china: 

 

This year, the regulators are also ramping up restrictions on vulgarity and gender-fluid content for children. Video platforms have also been ordered to scrub content with effeminate men or “other abnormal aesthetics.”

 

Enforcement of heteronormativity is also on the rise. In July, WeChat permanently banned nearly all public accounts created and run by LGBTQ groups at Chinese colleges for no specific reason. In November, LGBT Rights Advocacy China, an influential nonprofit organization, announced it was “suspending all operations” for an indefinite period of time. Bilibili — one of the few pockets of gay content online — has lately begun censoring itself.

 

4 hours ago, Luca said:

Earlier this year, for example, the Ministry of Education announced a plan to “cultivate masculinity” in schoolboys, requiring schools to increase the number of gym teachers and promote more sports. The initiatives are as much about health as they are about culture.

 

Cubs, you sure you don't want to move to China?!    Cheers!

[Parsad]

I think most people on either side of this discussion need to step back for a minute.

 

I've been to China, have lots of friends from both Hong Kong, ex-pats from Hong Kong, Mainland China, Taiwan, and born in the U.S. and Canada.  All I know is that they all want the exact same things...happiness, health, prosperity and safety.  Interestingly enough, that's what all my North America friends and family also want!

 

Now do governments do stupid things, nefarious things, etc including suppression of free speech, hiding the truth, etc.  Sure.  Pretty much every country around the world does.  Why?  Because politicians and government officials can be assholes!

 

So take a breather...consider different perspectives...no one is asking you to move to China, except Cubs, but then he won't get to see the Cubs, so he's probably not going!

 

Cheers!

[zippy1]

10 hours ago, Luca said:

 

Unemployment rates in EU member states, talking about Sweden, Italy etc. is boring, doesnt make as good of an article than the mysterious autocratic foreign country named china! 

Luca, your point is well taken. 
However, I doubt the Europeans use 1hr per week work as the criterion for being employed like China did, though.

Edited August 15, 2023 by zippy1

[james22]

42 minutes ago, Parsad said:

I've been to China, have lots of friends from both Hong Kong, ex-pats from Hong Kong, Mainland China, Taiwan, and born in the U.S. and Canada.  All I know is that they all want the exact same things...happiness, health, prosperity and safety.  Interestingly enough, that's what all my North America friends and family also want!

 

Not the exact same things.

 

How many Chinese want to emigrate to North America? How many North Americans want to emigrate to China?

[Parsad]

2 hours ago, mcliu said:

Do ghost cities actually exist or is it just Western propaganda?

 

For example: CNN reports in 2017 a subway built to nowhere:

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/chongqing-china-metro-station-nowhere/index.html#:~:text=Next station is ... nowhere,the middle of a wasteland.&text=Pristine and barely used%3A Very,according to a station employee.

 

Today there's an entire city built up around the station:

 

 

 

While the city has been built around that station, it still looks like one of the quietest cities and stations in all of China!  I only saw like 10 cars/trucks moving on the road near that station in that entire video!  Cheers!

[Parsad]

18 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

Not the exact same things.

 

How many Chinese want to emigrate to North America? How many North Americans want to emigrate to China?

 

Not as many North Americans want to emigrate to Europe compared to how many Europeans want to move to the U.S.  Does that mean Europe isn't as livable as the U.S.?!  

 

Cheers!