Russia-Ukrainian War - Political

[John Hjorth]

28 minutes ago, Xerxes said:

The last ten posts have nothing to do with Ukraine 

 

@Xerxes,

 

To bring the topic back to the Russian-Ukrainian war, and the involvment of USA in the the creasefire and peace efforts, I think I heard overall positive news :

 

1. POTUS has received a letter from Zelenskyj, that was satisfactory for POTUS to 'try again',

 

2. So POTUS would accept an initiative for new meeting,

 

meaning, 'Let's forget [or at least disregard] what happened between us under our meeting Friday'.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

Edit :

 

The US administration upping the pressure on Ukraine :

 

Reuters [March 5^th 2025] : US cuts off intelligence-sharing with Ukraine.

Edited 17 hours ago by John Hjorth

[cubsfan]

22 hours ago, james22 said:

Huh.

 

 

 

Zelensky played his high stakes game and lost. 

 

Now he needs to prepare for the Russian offensive this spring or cave completely.

[John Hjorth]

8 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Zelensky played his high stakes game and lost. 

 

Now he needs to prepare for the Russian offensive this spring or cave completely.

 

Mike [ @cubsfan ],

 

You obviously do not pay any attention, by now, on day-by-day basis, to what's going on in Europe.

[Sweet]

11 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Zelensky played his high stakes game and lost. 

 

Now he needs to prepare for the Russian offensive this spring or cave completely.

It’s not a game cubs, you almost seem to be enjoy seeing him suffer.

[cubsfan]

Just now, John Hjorth said:

 

Mike [ @cubsfan ],

 

You obviously do not pay any attention, by now, on day-by-day basis, to what's going on in Europe.

 

Fill me in John. I understand Europe is taking the ball now, which is wonderful.

My comment is in regards to Zelensky's quote, where he is caving - whether he has a joint Europe/Ukraine/USA plan in mind or just a Europe/Ukraine plan. 

His quote indicates (that @james22 posted) he is agreeing to work with Trump instead of making furthur demands that the USA fight a proxy war against the Russians.

 

What exactly did I miss @John Hjorth??

[cubsfan]

4 minutes ago, Sweet said:

It’s not a game cubs, you almost seem to be enjoy seeing him suffer.

 

I feel sorry for the Ukrainians that they have such a misguided leader to blow up a wonderful deal proposed by the President.  I think what really happened since Friday is that the Europeans, who are terrified of getting into a proxy war with Russia - have collectively knocked some sense into Zelensky.  That would be a very good thing.

[Sweet]

3 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

I feel sorry for the Ukrainians that they have such a misguided leader to blow up a wonderful deal proposed by the President.  I think what really happened since Friday is that the Europeans, who are terrified of getting into a proxy war with Russia - have collectively knocked some sense into Zelensky.  That would be a very good thing.

I’m really not sure what you think Zelenskyy should do different.  It’s not like he choose to be fighting a war.  He probably hates grovelling for aid and help, it’s a bloody awful job he has.

[cubsfan]

1 minute ago, Sweet said:

I’m really not sure what you think Zelenskyy should do different.  It’s not like he choose to be fighting a war.  He probably hates grovelling for aid and help, it’s a bloody awful job he has.

 

Yes, I'm quite sympathetic that he was foolish enough to try and strong arm the President of the United States. He obviously recieved some very bad advice. He has accomplish one major unintended consequence with this act: The Trump administration that did not trust Zelensky turned out to be correct - and now President Trump knows it.

[Spekulatius]

He is trying everything to get something from the US to help fight the Russians. If it turns out that it’s not working he will have to work with the European only.  
It is probably a waste of time to make deals with Trump but he has to try. That’s how I see it.

[Red Lion]

11 hours ago, Parsad said:

Would they let him in the White House in shorts and a hoodie?  Yet, somehow he got into the Presidential Inauguration and no one cared.  So it's not exactly just middle America picking sides.  There's a definite...you can do this and you can't...just the other side of the spectrum now.

 

Very good point and no arguments here, clear double standard. 

[cubsfan]

4 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

He is trying everything to get something from the US to help fight the Russians. If it turns out that it’s not working he will have to work with the European only.  
It is probably a waste of time to make deals with Trump but he has to try. That’s how I see it.

 

Very true. It has been made very clear to Zelensky that Trump will NOT allow the USA to get dragged into a proxy war with a nuclear power UNLESS peace talks are first initiated.

 

Big change of US policy that Zelensky & Europe don't seem to accept. They seem to think Obama and Biden are still in charge. 

 

Big mistake.

[Sweet]

4 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Yes, I'm quite sympathetic that he was foolish enough to try and strong arm the President of the United States. He obviously recieved some very bad advice. He has accomplish one major unintended consequence with this act: The Trump administration that did not trust Zelensky turned out to be correct - and now President Trump knows it.

That’s not sympathy.
 

I don’t see strong arming, how could Zelenskyy possibly strong arm the US president?  I’m being serious - how can he even do that?

I see a desperate man asking for some help.  The strong arming that has occurred is Trump on Zelenskyy - not the other way around.

 

I’m not sure Zelenskyy has lost anything he wasn’t going to lose.  I believe Trump was fairly clear it was his intention to end aid before he was elected.

 

That’s of cold comfort to Zelenskyy but there is a silver lining, Europe are finally doing something that looks substantial.

[Sweet]

2 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Trump will NOT allow the USA to get dragged into a proxy war with a nuclear power UNLESS peace talks are first initiated.

 

Two things.

 

If providing aid to Ukraine is getting America involved in a proxy war then America has already been in that proxy war.

 

The second, where has Trump said he will engage in a proxy war if peace talks fail?  I’ve never got any impression that Trump will turn on military aid if peace talks collapse.

 

And to be clear.  I think peace is really the only show in town.  

[cubsfan]

10 minutes ago, Sweet said:

I see a desperate man asking for some help.  The strong arming that has occurred is Trump on Zelenskyy - not the other way around.

 

I’m not sure Zelenskyy has lost anything he wasn’t going to lose.  I believe Trump was fairly clear it was his intention to end aid before he was elected.

 

That’s of cold comfort to Zelenskyy but there is a silver lining, Europe are finally doing something that looks substantial.

 

I certainly have sympathy for Ukraine - and some pity for Zelensky.

 

A desperate man begs for help - and then HE sets the conditions, which he understood to be non-starters. OF course Trump indicated he would likely end aid - he ran on the position of ending the war - NOT participating in the war. If you understood it - then Zelenksy understood it.

 

Trump's offer was to be the peacemaker and NOT get the US involved in a nuclear proxy war.

Edited 15 hours ago by cubsfan

[cubsfan]

2 minutes ago, Sweet said:

 

Two things.

 

If providing aid to Ukraine is getting America involved in a proxy war then America has already been in that proxy war.

 

 

Absoutely correct. But the warmonger Biden was kicked out of office in favor of peacemaker.

 

[Xerxes]

Based on what Koffman had said in the last few podcast (before the tantrum in the Oval Office), Ukraine is still holding its own.
 

so while strategic picture and long term prospect has had a material changed, the tactical picture on the ground has not. So no collapse of the frontline etc 
 

 

[cubsfan]

Just now, Xerxes said:

Based on what Koffman had said in the last few podcast (before the tantrum in the Oval Office), Ukraine is still holding its own.
 

so while strategic picture and long term prospect has had a material changed, the tactical picture on the ground has not. So no collapse of the frontline etc 

 

That's a very good thing. Gives time for Europe to prepare for the Russian offensive this spring.

[Sweet]

1 hour ago, cubsfan said:

 

Absoutely correct. But the warmonger Biden was kicked out of office in favor of peacemaker.

 

Is Putin a warmonger?

 

I wouldn’t call Biden a warmonger, it’s not like he wanted war.  In fact he tried to stop it by publicly releasing confident Russian plans in the hopes of deterring them.

[cubsfan]

31 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Is Putin a warmonger?

 

I wouldn’t call Biden a warmonger, it’s not like he wanted war.  In fact he tried to stop it by publicly releasing confident Russian plans in the hopes of deterring them.

 

Of course Putin is a warmonger. 

 

Warmongers take advantage of weak leaders like Biden.  His plan was to keep giving Zelensky money with no end in sight. That's why he got kicked out.

[Parsad]

2 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

Yes, I'm quite sympathetic that he was foolish enough to try and strong arm the President of the United States. He obviously recieved some very bad advice. He has accomplish one major unintended consequence with this act: The Trump administration that did not trust Zelensky turned out to be correct - and now President Trump knows it.

 

What the hell!  When did he try and strong arm the President?  Jesus!  

[Sweet]

2 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Of course Putin is a warmonger. 

 

Warmongers take advantage of weak leaders like Biden.  His plan was to keep giving Zelensky money with no end in sight. That's why he got kicked out.

Biden didn’t even run, mostly because of his obvious (to anyone with eyes) failing mental capacity.

 

I don’t really understand the obsession of money in the Ukraine.  The 150 bn US committed to isn’t even a lot compared to GDP or tax receipts.  Likewise for the EU, why does getting payback on the money matter.  They’re giving their lives.  Just seems so shallow.

[Parsad]

5 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Of course Putin is a warmonger. 

 

Warmongers take advantage of weak leaders like Biden.  His plan was to keep giving Zelensky money with no end in sight. That's why he got kicked out.

 

Putin wasn't getting what he wanted under Biden.  It's now being handed over to him with zero casualties and they won't give up anything.  Putin just took advantage of a weak leader in Trump and Trump is taking advantage of a leader who is trying to save his country.  Two fucking losers that you are proud to trumpet!  Cheers!

[cubsfan]

Just now, Sweet said:

Biden didn’t even run, mostly because of his obvious (to anyone with eyes) failing mental capacity.

 

I don’t really understand the obsession of money in the Ukraine.  The 150 bn US committed to isn’t even a lot compared to GDP or tax receipts.  Likewise for the EU, why does getting payback on the money matter.  They’re giving their lives.  Just seems so shallow.

 

Don't care about the money, just ending the war and saving lives.

But certainly NO more money to a losing war with no end. 

This was obvious enough 2 years ago - so yeah, Biden's circle advised him poorly against no negotiations to end.

[nwoodman]

 

Try not to follow the political threads too much so hopefully this is the right place.  Another masterpiece by our very own Dave Rowe (@roweafr).

[John Hjorth]

6 hours ago, Parsad said:

Putin wasn't getting what he wanted under Biden.  It's now being handed over to him with zero casualties and they won't give up anything.  Putin just took advantage of a weak leader in Trump and Trump is taking advantage of a leader who is trying to save his country.  Two fucking losers that you are proud to trumpet!  Cheers!

 

6 hours ago, cubsfan said:

Don't care about the money, just ending the war and saving lives.

But certainly NO more money to a losing war with no end. 

This was obvious enough 2 years ago - so yeah, Biden's circle advised him poorly against no negotiations to end.

 

Mike [ @cubsfan ],

 

It's a bit weird, because I personally understand your position on this,  and at the same time also Sanjeevs [ @Parsads] position.

 

It's now actually some time ago, that I've realized, that this conflict isen't going away anytime soon. Simply because everything related to it is infected by all kinds of spin etc.

 

I personally don't believe your POTUS will even succeed establishing a lasting ceasefire, truce. Nor even a lasting peace. Simply because Ukraines agressor can't be trusted. One got to steamroll the adversary here, to get back to some kind of stability here, by the use of force. Otherwise, it's not going to be over, everybody here in Europe asking : 'Who's next, else?'

 

That this is the reality, is gradually dawning here in Europe. And you see it in the major shift in Western European sentiment going on in these days.