Political Posts

[LC]

3 hours ago, Castanza said:

Even with Bill C-17 in the early 90s can you attribute it all to that? Certainly played a role…but cultures, economics, healthcare etc. all play a role.  

 

Let's ignore the ambiguity of "cultures" - another discussion. 

 

Economics and healthcare - absolutely, I agree, at the very least willing to hear the argument. But how has the current administration addressed these two issues? I'll go out on a limb and say, "not well".

[Castanza]

6 hours ago, LC said:

 

Let's ignore the ambiguity of "cultures" - another discussion. 

 

Economics and healthcare - absolutely, I agree, at the very least willing to hear the argument. But how has the current administration addressed these two issues? I'll go out on a limb and say, "not well".

Well culture is intertwined to sociology economic conditions so I think it’s relevant. But yes absolutely nothing from this admin. However this admin did not campaign on that either. Perhaps some wise politician will leverage guns and mental healthcare to address universal or a more robust offering in the states. It’s not currently approached from that angle and doesn’t pull from across the aisle.

[73 Reds]

11 hours ago, dwy000 said:

If no one was against that we would have it.  But we dont. 

 

But my point was never to rehash the gun debate here for the 50th time. The point was always that  most issues and laws reflect the tradeoff of the rights of individuals vs the good of society.  And nobody will ever agree on where that line should be drawn. 

It is the job of the Legislature to make and pass sensible laws to put on the President's desk to sign.  Both parties have failed in this regard in connection with gun laws, no different than most other issues these days in which a legislative consensus seems so hard to reach.  It doesn't matter which party is in control - the result is sadly the same.   Yet comparing the issue with Canada is not at all helpful because Canada does not have the equivalent of a 2nd Constitutional Amendment.  That is what is meant by a difference in "culture". 

[Marco Van Basten]

9 hours ago, LC said:

Well, try it in the rest of the country. It's like saying Toronto has strict gun laws but the rest of Canada doesn't.

 

Or let's (as a country) brainstorm some other solution. But gun laws haven't changed significantly in my lifetime, and the problem just grows. 

 

Maybe you're right and gun control doesn't address the root cause - fine, but then let's go address that. Is it better k-12 education? I'd gladly pay for that - even not having any children myself. Is education driven by things like household financial stability? Well let's direct more funds towards the middle classes rather than more tax breaks for the Waltons. 

 

Tell me the cause of the problem and let's try out some potential solutions, rather than more T's & P's. 

Look at USSR and Russia, very strict gun laws and murder rate through the roof.  It is culture and nihilism in schools.  It is not driven by money - look at educational achievement of poor Chinese immigrants.  

[Spekulatius]

The only thing that has worked is birth controllable abortions so that kids nobody want don’t grow up, sadly. Strict gun laws in a city won’t do much since yo can drive in the city with a trunk of guns to do whatever and have less than 1/ million chance of getting caught. Background checks for gun purchases may help in some cases where clear nutcases or criminals want to buy guns . However, with millions of guns already in circulation , it not really going to do much either.

 

The only solution to the problem would be to start over and pull all the guns and circulation and start anew,  it that’s not practical and not consistent with the constitution either, so dice.

 

Another factor is of course that gun violence is about 4-5x more likely to get committed by blacks and blacks are the victims by about the same factor. If you take out the violence committed  by 18-40 year old black males, the US would like a whole lot more like other countries in terms of crime.

 

It’s driven by socio-economics obviously and it is what it is.

[cwericb]

This is just my personal thoughts. But we all wonder how society in the United States has devolved to where it is today. 

 

In 1973 the United States ended the “draft”.  Prior to that date, when most (many) male citizens reached a certain age they were required to serve two years military service. I have often felt that there is a correlation between some of the present day crime problems in the US and the end of the draft.  

 

When military service was a requirement many inner city youths ended up serving two years or more in the military.  

 

During their time in the military, these young men were taught and trained in skilled trades that gave then a sense of accomplishment and self respect. But not only were they taught self respect, but respect for others. They also learned discipline, teamwork and work ethic. These skills and training also led to decent employment when they returned to civi street.

   

However in 1973 the draft ended because so many young men were sent to be slaughtered in a losing war.

 

Unfortunately, today many in this same age group still, seeking the camaraderie of youth, now join street gangs and carry their guns for all the wrong reasons. 

 

JMHO

 

 

Edited October 5, 2025 by cwericb

[Sweet]

5 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

Another factor is of course that gun violence is about 4-5x more likely to get committed by blacks and blacks are the victims by about the same factor. If you take out the violence committed  by 18-40 year old black males, the US would like a whole lot more like other countries in terms of crime.

 

It’s driven by socio-economics obviously and it is what it is.

We don’t see comparable rates among most other ethnic groups from low socio-economic.

 

Things start to make sense when you listen to some rap music, see some of the pictures posted by these inner city guys.
 

Many of them venerate gang and thug culture but everyone is afraid to call out this destructive culture in case it’s deemed racist.

 

Edited October 5, 2025 by Sweet

[73 Reds]

3 hours ago, cwericb said:

This is just my personal thoughts. But we all wonder how society in the United States has devolved to where it is today. 

 

In 1973 the United States ended the “draft”.  Prior to that date, when most (many) when male citizens reached a certain age they were required to serve two years military service. I have often felt that there is a correlation between some of the present day crime problems in the US and the end of the draft.  

 

When military service was a requirement many inner city youths ended up serving two years or more in the military.  

 

During their time in the military, these young men were taught and trained in skilled trades that gave then a sense of accomplishment and self respect. But not only were they taught self respect, but respect for others. They also learned discipline, teamwork and work ethic. These skills and training also led to decent employment when they returned to civi street.

   

However in 1973 the draft ended because so many young men were sent to be slaughtered in a losing war.

 

Unfortunately, today many in this same age group still, seeking the camaraderie of youth, now join street gangs and carry their guns for all the wrong reasons. 

 

JMHO

 

 

Way too much there to unpack.  But generalizations are "generally" wrong.  And to suggest that "society in the United States has devolved to where it is today" is a remarkably biased, short-sighted, historically ignorant generalization with entirely no context or definition as to anything specific of meaningful.   

[Spekulatius]

4 hours ago, cwericb said:

This is just my personal thoughts. But we all wonder how society in the United States has devolved to where it is today. 

 

In 1973 the United States ended the “draft”.  Prior to that date, when most (many) male citizens reached a certain age they were required to serve two years military service. I have often felt that there is a correlation between some of the present day crime problems in the US and the end of the draft.  

 

When military service was a requirement many inner city youths ended up serving two years or more in the military.  

 

During their time in the military, these young men were taught and trained in skilled trades that gave then a sense of accomplishment and self respect. But not only were they taught self respect, but respect for others. They also learned discipline, teamwork and work ethic. These skills and training also led to decent employment when they returned to civi street.

   

However in 1973 the draft ended because so many young men were sent to be slaughtered in a losing war.

 

Unfortunately, today many in this same age group still, seeking the camaraderie of youth, now join street gangs and carry their guns for all the wrong reasons. 

 

JMHO

 

 

Sorry the old times weren’t better, they were worse in terms of violence and crime. Crime has been long secular downward slide, probably since birth control and abortion became more accessible certain population groups.

[Spekulatius]

2 hours ago, Sweet said:

We don’t see comparable rates among most other ethnic groups from low socio-economic.

 

Things start to make sense when you listen to some rap music, see some of the pictures posted by these inner city guys.
 

Many of them venerate gang and thug culture but everyone is afraid to call out this destructive culture in case it’s deemed racist.

 

There are very violent Mexican and Vietnamese street gangs in areas where these minorities are strong. With the possible exception of Hispanics in some areas, they are not significant enough to make these ministries stand out relative to others. Sadly this is not true for blacks where crime rate teens to be ~4x higher across the board. I agree it’s a cultural factor from within that is the likely cause.

 

I have listened to a lot of music of all sorts but Rap is the one of the few styles that I never felt the slightest connection with and I don’t feel like I am missing anything at all.

[cwericb]

4 hours ago, 73 Reds said:

Way too much there to unpack.  But generalizations are "generally" wrong.  And to suggest that "society in the United States has devolved to where it is today" is a remarkably biased, short-sighted, historically ignorant generalization with entirely no context or definition as to anything specific of meaningful.   

On 10/4/2025 at 7:33 PM, Gregmal said:

Honestly, Canada has way higher quality “average” citizen than the US, and it’s not even close. That explains the difference

Re: "to suggest that "society in the United States has devolved to where it is today" is a remarkably biased, short-sighted, historically ignorant generalization with entirely no context or definition as to anything specific of meaningful"     

Some particular reason to single out my particular post when you said nothing about several previous posts ( such as Gregmal's post above) that essentially suggested the same thing about 'devolved'? Or do you think everything is just fine and dandy these days, just same old same old.?  

 ........................................................................................  

You don't see any regression in US society? Then why has the Government found it necessary to have masked and armed troops searching the cities for foreigners? Why is the National Guard patrolling cities? Do you think crime rates are decreasing?  Multiple mass shootings are just normal? you think it has always been that way. You want some statistics, look them up. Here are just a few to get you started.

America has by far the highest incarceration rate in the world

The US has the largest total prison population of any other country in the world.  

There are far more car thefts in the United States than anywhere else in the world.  

America has the highest rate of obesity among all major developed countries.  

The United States is the world leader in credit card fraud.  

The United States has the highest divorce rate in the world.  

The United States has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the world.

The US ranks 22nd in quality of life  

The US rates 24th in perceived corruption  

On average only 79% of U.S. adults nationwide are literate in 2024.  

The US ranked 54th in infant mortality  

The US is one of the ONLY developed countries with user pay health care.

The U.S. ranks last among industrialized countries for access to care  

The US rates 22nd in quality of life.  

The U.S. ranks 55th globally for maternal mortality, which is the worst among developed countries.

The U.S. ranks last in life expectancy at age 60 among peer nations and has a high rate of preventable mortality. 

US ranks 31st in education

The US ranks 36th in literacy

And the list goes on and on and yet you maintain that there is no regression in U.S. society? 

Mass shootings: (not sure of the year)

Australia: 1

United Kingdom: 2

Canada: 4 

Germany: 5

France: 6

United States: 109 ....  Not a typo - 109 mass shootings!

It is estimated that 23.1% of the U.S. adult population have mental illness.

The list above is only a partial list. 

 

Edited October 6, 2025 by cwericb

[73 Reds]

10 hours ago, cwericb said:

Re: "to suggest that "society in the United States has devolved to where it is today" is a remarkably biased, short-sighted, historically ignorant generalization with entirely no context or definition as to anything specific of meaningful"     

Some particular reason to single out my particular post when you said nothing about several previous posts ( such as Gregmal's post above) that essentially suggested the same thing about 'devolved'? Or do you think everything is just fine and dandy these days, just same old same old.?  

 ........................................................................................  

You don't see any regression in US society? Then why has the Government found it necessary to have masked and armed troops searching the cities for foreigners? Why is the National Guard patrolling cities? Do you think crime rates are decreasing?  Multiple mass shootings are just normal? you think it has always been that way. You want some statistics, look them up. Here are just a few to get you started.

America has by far the highest incarceration rate in the world

The US has the largest total prison population of any other country in the world.  

There are far more car thefts in the United States than anywhere else in the world.  

America has the highest rate of obesity among all major developed countries.  

The United States is the world leader in credit card fraud.  

The United States has the highest divorce rate in the world.  

The United States has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the world.

The US ranks 22nd in quality of life  

The US rates 24th in perceived corruption  

On average only 79% of U.S. adults nationwide are literate in 2024.  

The US ranked 54th in infant mortality  

The US is one of the ONLY developed countries with user pay health care.

The U.S. ranks last among industrialized countries for access to care  

The US rates 22nd in quality of life.  

The U.S. ranks 55th globally for maternal mortality, which is the worst among developed countries.

The U.S. ranks last in life expectancy at age 60 among peer nations and has a high rate of preventable mortality. 

US ranks 31st in education

The US ranks 36th in literacy

And the list goes on and on and yet you maintain that there is no regression in U.S. society? 

Mass shootings: (not sure of the year)

Australia: 1

United Kingdom: 2

Canada: 4 

Germany: 5

France: 6

United States: 109 ....  Not a typo - 109 mass shootings!

It is estimated that 23.1% of the U.S. adult population have mental illness.

The list above is only a partial list. 

 

Why do you believe that any of the numbers cited (assuming they are accurate) are worse than in previous decades?  Many of these longstanding issues are the product of a free, open, capitalistic society.  And to your main point, if you think society in the US has "devolved" so dramatically, why do so many people from across the globe risk their lives to immigrate here?  

[Gregmal]

Thats also not really what I was saying. It's the same as acknowledging Monaco has a higher quality citizen than Canada, on average. In the US, we have a real problem with, IDK, call it whatever you want, Colorful shoe culture, which greatly impacts a lot of these negative categories. Ironically, the super, super high majority of the culprits, happen to be a major component of the democrat base....I mean, if the shoe fits....

[cwericb]

39 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

Why do you believe that any of the numbers cited (assuming they are accurate) are worse than in previous decades?  Many of these longstanding issues are the product of a free, open, capitalistic society.  And to your main point, if you think society in the US has "devolved" so dramatically,  

 

"Many of these longstanding issues are the product of a free, open, capitalistic society."

 I think you may have missed the point. These rankings for the US are so far below OTHER "free, open, capitalistic societies" ie. Developed Nations.

 

"...why do so many people from across the globe risk their lives to immigrate here?" 

Well that is pretty simple. I did not say that the US was the worst place in the world, I just suggested that it is not what it used to be.

 

The US is certainly not the only country with immigration issues. Canada Britain, France, Italy, Spain Portugal, etc, in fact any of the developed nations. Most developed countries have immigration problems because of other country's political unrest, poverty, overpopulation, etc, etc. 

 

But, if everything is great in the American society today I may have misunderstood.  

 

I thought there was a movement underway to “Make America Great AGAIN. This would seem to suggest that the Country has regressed to a point where it needs to be brought back to it’s former better state, hence the word “again”.  You can't have it both ways. 

 

If things have been going so well, why was it necessary to send Marines and National Guard troops into California to maintain order? Why did the President find it necessary to declare Chicago a “war zone”?  Portland a “war ravaged city”? These are the President's words not mine. Why would it be  necessary to send Military troops into major US cities unless the government believe the people are out of control? Does this seem like normal societal issues? 

 

Did you miss the fact that the President has declared that there now is a WAR within the the United States and Military troops are required to police US cities?  Is that the new normal where things have devolved to the point that military troops are now required to police America's cities? 

 

That does not seem normal, at least to me. Might not that suggest that society has deteriorated to the extent that military troops are required to police the country’s cities? Do  you think things have always been this way?  And yet you think I am insulting by suggesting that society may have regressed?   

 

The President of the United States certainly does not agree with you. He believes that society in some areas has devolved to the point where he believes that the US military should “use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military National Guard”. 

 

Does this seem like a well functioning normal society? And yet you think I am the one who is ...“biased, short-sighted, historically ignorant”.

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

[cwericb]

4 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Thats also not really what I was saying. It's the same as acknowledging Monaco has a higher quality citizen than Canada, on average. In the US, we have a real problem with, IDK, call it whatever you want, Colorful shoe culture, which greatly impacts a lot of these negative categories. Ironically, the super, super high majority of the culprits, happen to be a major component of the democrat base....I mean, if the shoe fits....

 

Yeah, I wasn't taking a shot at you or what you said.

 

I was simply using your quote to illustrate that that others had suggested that the US had societal problems and yet Reds chose me to tee off on.  

[73 Reds]

11 minutes ago, cwericb said:

 

"Many of these longstanding issues are the product of a free, open, capitalistic society."

 I think you may have missed the point. These rankings for the US are so far below OTHER "free, open, capitalistic societies" ie. Developed Nations.

 

"...why do so many people from across the globe risk their lives to immigrate here?" 

Well that is pretty simple. I did not say that the US was the worst place in the world, I just suggested that it is not what it used to be.

 

The US is certainly not the only country with immigration issues. Canada Britain, France, Italy, Spain Portugal, etc, in fact any of the developed nations. Most developed countries have immigration problems because of other country's political unrest, poverty, overpopulation, etc, etc. 

 

But, if everything is great in the American society today I may have misunderstood.  

 

I thought there was a movement underway to “Make America Great AGAIN. This would seem to suggest that the Country has regressed to a point where it needs to be brought back to it’s former better state, hence the word “again”.  You can't have it both ways. 

 

If things have been going so well, why was it necessary to send Marines and National Guard troops into California to maintain order? Why did the President find it necessary to declare Chicago a “war zone”?  Portland a “war ravaged city”? These are the President's words not mine. Why would it be  necessary to send Military troops into major US cities unless the government believe the people are out of control? Does this seem like normal societal issues? 

 

Did you miss the fact that the President has declared that there now is a WAR within the the United States and Military troops are required to police US cities?  Is that the new normal where things have devolved to the point that military troops are now required to police America's cities? 

 

That does not seem normal, at least to me. Might not that suggest that society has deteriorated to the extent that military troops are required to police the country’s cities? Do  you think things have always been this way?  And yet you think I am insulting by suggesting that society may have regressed?   

 

The President of the United States certainly does not agree with you. He believes that society in some areas has devolved to the point where he believes that the US military should “use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military National Guard”. 

 

Does this seem like a well functioning normal society? And yet you think I am the one who is ...“biased, short-sighted, historically ignorant”.

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

No, you missed the point and are now moving the goal posts.  Nothing has devolved.  WEB proclaimed that we Americans won the birthright lottery.  I agree.  Many of the issues/problems you cite exist in certain pockets of the Country.  And the U.S. by far is the destination of choice for new immigrants wanting a better life.  You can't reconcile that with your comments.  And regarding law and order?  If policies put in place by misguided politicians don't work, the military certainly does to restore law and order.

Edited October 6, 2025 by 73 Reds
missed line

[cwericb]

8 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

No, you missed the point and are now moving the goal posts.  Nothing has devolved.  WEB proclaimed that we Americans won the birthright lottery.  I agree.  Many of the issues/problems you cite exist in certain pockets of the Country.  And the U.S. by far is the destination of choice for new immigrants wanting a better life.  You can't reconcile that with your comments.  And regarding law and order?  If policies put in place by misguided politicians don't work, the military certainly does to restore law and order.

 

So you believe that things today are as good as they ever were. Guess the fact that I am older than you, I remember when things were quite different. And if you believe that things are better now, how does "Make America Great AGAIN' make any sense?

 

[73 Reds]

Just now, cwericb said:

 

So you believe that things today are as good as they ever were. Guess the fact that I am older than you, I remember when things were quite different. And if you believe that things are better now, how does "Make America Great AGAIN' make any sense?

 

No, in general life is BETTER than it was before for the average American and it continues to get better.  That doesn't mean longstanding issues don't exist.  And Trump's MAGA movement is specifically in response to leftist polices which denigrate the County's continued evolution.  I've asked this question before here and I'll pose it to you directly:  As a Canadian how comfortable would you feel as part of the World today if the US did not exist? 

[LC]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-border-patrol-raid-sweeps-citizens-families-chicago-crackdown-intensifies-2025-10-04/

Feds rappelling from blackhawk helicopters at midnight, traumatizing children and arresting everyone in sight without warrants.

[cwericb]

1 minute ago, 73 Reds said:

No, in general life is BETTER than it was before for the average American and it continues to get better.  That doesn't mean longstanding issues don't exist.  And Trump's MAGA movement is specifically in response to leftist polices which denigrate the County's continued evolution.  I've asked this question before here and I'll pose it to you directly:  As a Canadian how comfortable would you feel as part of the World today if the US did not exist? 

 

" I've asked this question before here and I'll pose it to you directly:  As a Canadian how comfortable would you feel as part of the World today if the US did not exist?"

 

Really!? You can't be serious?

 

First off, we wouldn't have a former friend who has literally stabbed our country in the back.

 

We would not have our next door neighbour threatening to take over our country.

 

We would not have to be concerned that said neighbour's President threaten an economic war against our country to drive us into submission.

 

We would not have an idiot 'US ambassador' traveling around our country insulting us and hurling insults at every stop- and then have the unadulterated nerve to to suggest Canada is being 'mean' to the United States.

 

The fact that you seem to be oblivious to this simply illustrates the condescending attitude towards Canada from many in the US. 

 

And another thing. Thankfully we would not have to worry about all those guns, drugs and misinformation that cross the US border into Canada on a daily basis.

 

Other than that....

 

 

 

[Mephistopheles]

1 hour ago, LC said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-border-patrol-raid-sweeps-citizens-families-chicago-crackdown-intensifies-2025-10-04/

Feds rappelling from blackhawk helicopters at midnight, traumatizing children and arresting everyone in sight without warrants.

 

Yea, it's like an excerpt from the diary of Anne Frank. 

[73 Reds]

1 hour ago, cwericb said:

 

" I've asked this question before here and I'll pose it to you directly:  As a Canadian how comfortable would you feel as part of the World today if the US did not exist?"

 

Really!? You can't be serious?

 

First off, we wouldn't have a former friend who has literally stabbed our country in the back.

 

We would not have our next door neighbour threatening to take over our country.

 

We would not have to be concerned that said neighbour's President threaten an economic war against our country to drive us into submission.

 

We would not have an idiot 'US ambassador' traveling around our country insulting us and hurling insults at every stop- and then have the unadulterated nerve to to suggest Canada is being 'mean' to the United States.

 

The fact that you seem to be oblivious to this simply illustrates the condescending attitude towards Canada from many in the US. 

 

And another thing. Thankfully we would not have to worry about all those guns, drugs and misinformation that cross the US border into Canada on a daily basis.

 

Other than that....

 

 

 

The fact that your most serious concerns seem to be with a President who has another 3+ years to go before he is replaced says it all.  The US continues to be the greatest experiment the World has ever seen.  Most Americans would not choose to live anywhere else (and those who do are free to leave).  Short-sighted opinions of non-residents really don't matter much in the long run.  Making mountains out of mole hills is really not productive.

[cubsfan]

3 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

The fact that your most serious concerns seem to be with a President who has another 3+ years to go before he is replaced says it all.  The US continues to be the greatest experiment the World has ever seen.  Most Americans would not choose to live anywhere else (and those who do are free to leave).  Short-sighted opinions of non-residents really don't matter much in the long run.  Making mountains out of mole hills is really not productive.

 

+1.... What else is new?

 

We are having a historic run with this Presidency in reversing the disastrous socialist/fascist experiment of the LEFT and Democrats.  Democracy works and has reversed the tide.

 

It's a beautiful thing.

[cwericb]

1 hour ago, 73 Reds said:

No, in general life is BETTER than it was before for the average American and it continues to get better.  That doesn't mean longstanding issues don't exist.  And Trump's MAGA movement is specifically in response to leftist polices which denigrate the County's continued evolution.  I've asked this question before here and I'll pose it to you directly:  As a Canadian how comfortable would you feel as part of the World today if the US did not exist? 

 

So let's reverse the question:   As a American how comfortable would you feel as part of the World today if the Canada did not exist? 

 

Many of your northern cities rely on Canada for their power, how would you replace that ?

Where would you get all the natural gas we export to the US?

What would substitute for all the water Canada supplies to thw US?

Where would your refineries their oil from as they need Canadian grade oil?

How would the US manage shiipments to and from Alaska with Canadian roads closed with shipping by sea or air not practical?

Where would you source your rare earth and other mineralsneeds?

How would you grow your crops economically without Canadian fertilizer? 

AND who would / will replace Canada as the United States largest customer for it's exports?

And that is just some ot the items.

Mr Trump said the US doesn't need Canada. It seems we are finding out. How are your tourism businesses doing this year?

 

 

[cwericb]

5 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

+1.... What else is new?

 

We are having a historic run with this Presidency in reversing the disastrous socialist/fascist experiment of the LEFT and Democrats.  Democracy works and has reversed the tide.

 

It's a beautiful thing.

 

Good to see you back Cubs I was afraid your might have accidentally been picked up in one of those ICE sweeps.