Leaving New York City

[cubsfan]

35 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

Bud Light insulting their customer base and giving a promo can to an influencer are two different things.  The backlash is firmly directed at the promo can not the insults of frat boys.

No - the whole intent of the Bud Light marketing campaign was clearly laid out by the VP of Marketing. You must think the average person is an idiot. That interview is being blasted out 24 x 7 on network tv and social media.

 

Telling your best customers to get with the new ideology and they are no longer cool is pretty damn brazen.

 

”Look - I can become a lovely girl if I paint my nails!”

you must really think the public is dumb

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by cubsfan

[Castanza]

17 minutes ago, Sweet said:

 

dwy, I cannot speak to everyone, but I think you are far off the mark if you think it is not liking gay people.

 

A growing number of homosexual have issues with the transgender movement.   They argue that the transgender movement pushes people to question if they are actually gay but instead born in the wrong body.  They consider it damaging to their rights as homosexuals and medically damaging for many young homosexuals.  For example:  LGB Alliance (@AllianceLGB) / Twitter 

 

In the UK the Tavistock gender clinic was investigated and ordered to close down by the Government.  Puberty blockers were given to children from aged 9 years old, and the treatment given to them was ruled to have failed to consider alternative issues, such as a high correlation with autism: NHS to close Tavistock child gender identity clinic - BBC News 

 

I'm sure part of the rise of trans people is social acceptance, but there is no way the meteoric rise in the number identifying as trans is down just to social acceptance.  It's now trendy and a way to get attention - even some trans people think this.

 

Bill Maher recently did a skit on the transgender movement and questioned some of the trends and interventions:

New Rule: Along for the Pride | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO) - YouTube

 

 

Exactly, and not to mention all the negative health effects that come with hormone replacement therapy, chemical castration, puberty blockers and sex change surgeries. All of these have increased risk levels of infections, diseases and cancer. 

 

@dwy000 Live and let live is fine. I don't care if someone wants to cut off their arms and legs and chooses to identify as a bowling pin. But that has no place in the public school system or at the tops of government buildings. I don't want teachers or people who have their own personal ideologies forcing this stuff on my children or taking advantage of them and then telling them to "keep it from their parents." It's happening all over the place. I don't want that nonsense taught, the same way I don't want flat earth, young earth or scientology taught. If you choose to do something as an individual that is not the norm in society, you don't get to then dictate the rules for everyone else and force legislation on them. 

 

As Sweet said, it's damaging to the gay community. I'll also add it's damaging to women, its damaging to men, it's damaging to science, healthcare and the list continues. 

 

Institutions are to educate not indoctrinate. 

Doctors are to "Do no harm"

Society needs norms rooted in objective truth to function. 

 

 

Just now, dwy000 said:

The group pointed to stress from being a minority group with related discrimination, bullying and non acceptance as the reason for the high suicide attempt rate, not from dissatisfaction with their ability to be a man or woman.  

 

I want kids to feel accepted and normal regardless of who they are.  Not told they are freaks and rejected by both society and their families and driven to suicide because of who they are.  

 

What happened to your live and let live from a couple of posts ago?  

 

Your brain isn't even fully developed till you're like 25. You think a prepubescents teen knows what they "should be." Some kids think they are dogs at 6 maybe we should put a leash on them, change their name to Sparky and feed them kibbles. What ever happened to the idea of adults and specifically parents guiding their kids through life and helping them overcome or make sense of confusing things? The idea that you can be born in the wrong body is insane and unscientific. 10 years ago is you were a 18 year old male and went to the doctor asking for a vasectomy's you would likely be turned away with the response of "you need more time to think about this decision" . Now you can go at 15 and ask to have your balls cut off, your penis turned inside out and have estrogen pumped into your system. That's not healthcare. 

[cubsfan]

9 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

 

What happened to your live and let live from a couple of posts ago?  

Nothing has changed at all. Be trans all you want. Just keep the lies and ideology away from my loved ones. No different between this and the KKK. You don’t get to indoctrinate my children - but do what you like with yours- and I really hope it works out for you. 
 

That shouldn’t be that hard to understand.

[dwy000]

Just now, cubsfan said:

Nothing has changed at all. Be trans all you want. Just keep the lies and ideology away from my loved ones. No different between this and the KKK. You don’t get to indoctrinate my children - but do what you like with yours- and I really hope it works out for you. 
 

That shouldn’t be that hard to understand.

What are you going to do if your kid comes out as gay?

[cubsfan]

Why do you think I have an issue with gays?

[dwy000]

5 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Why do you think I have an issue with gays?

You're right, my bad.  You and Castanza both come up as purple circles.  

[Castanza]

4 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

You're right, my bad.  You and Castanza both come up as purple circles.  

Never said I had problems with “gays”. Don’t put words in my mouth. 

[dwy000]

10 minutes ago, Castanza said:

Never said I had problems with “gays”. Don’t put words in my mouth. 

Who said that?  

 

So I'm assuming you would be fully supportive if your kid came out as gay?   Well thats good at least. 

[Castanza]

1 minute ago, dwy000 said:

Who said that?  

 

So I'm assuming you would be fully supportive if your kid came out as gay?   Well thats good at least. 

I would 

 

Now if my kid said they were some variation of pansexual she wolf and they want me to use 10 different pronouns based on the day of the week. I’ll be getting them some counseling and following up with the adults in their sphere of influence. 

[cubsfan]

24 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

You're right, my bad.  You and Castanza both come up as purple circles.  

Hey man. No problem. We are way past the whole gay issue. The race issue too.

 

I have 2 gay cousins, great guys. Worked for 2 gay bosses, knew it before I took the jobs. Again, both really great guys.

 

This transgender epidemic is way beyond those. This is at the core of what is true and not true. Blacks are not inferior. Gays are not perverts. Sex and gender are not “fluid” and we should NOT be teaching and lying to anyone about that. It’s not the silver bullet to a young adolescent that is confused. It’s the parents job to guide them through an identity crisis . 
 

Both the public education system and transgender activists say they know better than parents. They do great harm. 
 

You seem to think this is the Civil Rights movement all over again. It’s far more insidious to society. One was real social progress, this one is a social contagion.

[dwy000]

2 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Hey man. No problem. We are way past the whole gay issue. The race issue too.

 

I have 2 gay cousins, great guys. Worked for 2 gay bosses, knew it before I took the jobs. Again, both really great guys.

 

This transgender epidemic is way beyond those. This is at the core of what is true and not true. Blacks are not inferior. Gays are not perverts. Sex and gender are not “fluid” and we should NOT be teaching and lying to anyone about that. It’s not the silver bullet to a young adolescent that is confused. It’s the parents job to guide them through an identity crisis . 
 

Both the public education system and transgender activists say they know better than parents. They do great harm. 
 

You seem to think this is the Civil Rights movement all over again. It’s far more insidious to society. One was real social progress, this one is a social contagion.

Well I think the one thing we all agree is that schools should not be indoctrinating or sexualizing kids - from either side. 

 

If as an adult you decide that you want to be the opposite sex and go through years and years of hormones and whatever else it takes to get the surgery, then you must feel very, very strongly about it and more power to you. None of my business. But hating those people for what must be agonizing process and telling them they are wrong is crossing the personal freedom line for me.

[Castanza]

13 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Hey man. No problem. We are way past the whole gay issue. The race issue too.

 

I have 2 gay cousins, great guys. Worked for 2 gay bosses, knew it before I took the jobs. Again, both really great guys.

 

This transgender epidemic is way beyond those. This is at the core of what is true and not true. Blacks are not inferior. Gays are not perverts. Sex and gender are not “fluid” and we should NOT be teaching and lying to anyone about that. It’s not the silver bullet to a young adolescent that is confused. It’s the parents job to guide them through an identity crisis . 
 

Both the public education system and transgender activists say they know better than parents. They do great harm. 
 

You seem to think this is the Civil Rights movement all over again. It’s far more insidious to society. One was real social progress, this one is a social contagion.

Exactly, and o think a lot of the issue is because you’ve mixed two wildly different things together. Being gay is nowhere near trans imo. They are about as far apart as Democrat and Republican. 

[cubsfan]

2 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

Well I think the one thing we all agree is that schools should not be indoctrinating or sexualizing kids - from either side. 

 

If as an adult you decide that you want to be the opposite sex and go through years and years of hormones and whatever else it takes to get the surgery, then you must feel very, very strongly about it and more power to you. None of my business. But hating those people for what must be agonizing process and telling them they are wrong is crossing the personal freedom line for me.

 

 

No one disagrees. 
 

But it’s a very dangerous step for someone to take - we wish them the best.

 

You say it’s because we hate them. I disagree and say it’s a 50/50 shot at solving the real issue - which is they’re in the wrong body. 
 

check out 1 stat if you will: in 2005 there was one transgender reassignment clinic in the USA. One. Now there are over 400.

 

this is a social contagion and a selfish industry that has a vested interest in making a lot of money.

 

 

[dwy000]

14 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

 

No one disagrees. 
 

But it’s a very dangerous step for someone to take - we wish them the best.

 

You say it’s because we hate them. I disagree and say it’s a 50/50 shot at solving the real issue - which is they’re in the wrong body. 
 

check out 1 stat if you will: in 2005 there was one transgender reassignment clinic in the USA. One. Now there are over 400.

 

this is a social contagion and a selfish industry that has a vested interest in making a lot of money.

 

 

I overlap the issues (maybe wrongly) because I'm old enuf to remember the exact same arguments about gay people 20-30 years ago.  It was a choice.

  They were groomed into it.  It's scientifically wrong.  They just want attention.  Etc. Etc.  

 

The gender reassignment clinics probably is just reacting to the increased demand.  And a lot of that comes from increased acceptance.  Plastic surgery, tattoo parlors and weed shops have exploded over the past 30 years too. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by dwy000

[cubsfan]

4 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

I overlap the issues (maybe wrongly) because I'm old enuf to remember the exact same arguments about gay people 20-30 years ago.  It was a choice.

  They were groomed into it.  It's scientifically wrong.  They just want attention.  Etc. Etc.  

now we are getting somewhere. Agree 100% on this. The gay acceptance was a long ugly & hard fought battle. Peace and have a great weekend.

Edited April 14, 2023 by cubsfan

[Castanza]

17 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

Well I think the one thing we all agree is that schools should not be indoctrinating or sexualizing kids - from either side. 

 

If as an adult you decide that you want to be the opposite sex and go through years and years of hormones and whatever else it takes to get the surgery, then you must feel very, very strongly about it and more power to you. None of my business. But hating those people for what must be agonizing process and telling them they are wrong is crossing the personal freedom line for me.

 

Plenty of groups are told they're "wrong" every day in America. The idea that as a you can't question something and should just accept it is nonsense. But you SHOULD TOLERATE it. Those are two different things. Freedom of opposing viewpoints and thought is what helped make America the country it is. But as Greg said, you can't even say someone is fat anymore. I mean America has had an obesity crisis for decades and our final solution as a country is to just accept that? I mean weight related issues are the number one cause of death in the country. It was a primary co-morbidity during covid. It doesn't make sense. Do people come in all different sizes? Yes. Should people be respected? yes. Should heavier people have brands catering specific clothing lines, gear, etc. to them? Yes. Should we be shitting on people who are fit? No, Should we be saying it's ok and "good" to be fat? No. 

 

I think about that from a universal healthcare standpoint. Tbh why should I be forced to pay and care about your health status when you don't even care about it yourself? The country can do better on issues like this, but nobody wants to have real honest conversations because some people might "feel bad." so it's impossible to address. 

 

Anyways this is way off topic now. I've avoided politics on here for the better part of a year but this topic drug me back in. 

[dwy000]

6 minutes ago, Castanza said:

 

Plenty of groups are told they're "wrong" every day in America. The idea that as a you can't question something and should just accept it is nonsense. But you SHOULD TOLERATE it. Those are two different things. Freedom of opposing viewpoints and thought is what helped make America the country it is. But as Greg said, you can't even say someone is fat anymore. I mean America has had an obesity crisis for decades and our final solution as a country is to just accept that? I mean weight related issues are the number one cause of death in the country. It was a primary co-morbidity during covid. It doesn't make sense. Do people come in all different sizes? Yes. Should people be respected? yes. Should heavier people have brands catering specific clothing lines, gear, etc. to them? Yes. Should we be shitting on people who are fit? No, Should we be saying it's ok and "good" to be fat? No. 

 

I think about that from a universal healthcare standpoint. Tbh why should I be forced to pay and care about your health status when you don't even care about it yourself? The country can do better on issues like this, but nobody wants to have real honest conversations because some people might "feel bad." so it's impossible to address. 

 

Anyways this is way off topic now. I've avoided politics on here for the better part of a year but this topic drug me back in. 

It will never ever be resolved. It's the age old adage that my right to swing my arm extends to the tip of your nose.

 

My calling someone fat is, to me, just factual, but to a fat person might be an aggregious insult.  Both are correct and now both are deeply offended.  Has it gone way too far?  Absolutely!!!!  Nobody but the most extreme would suggest otherwise.  But if there's no definitive line and just personal opinion (not to mention ever changing societal norms) it's always going to be a nasty discussion.  

[Spekulatius]

Can we put this transgender nonsense to rest? It has nothing to do with NYC whether you live or stay @Parsad

[rkbabang]

51 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

Can we put this transgender nonsense to rest? It has nothing to do with NYC whether you live or stay @Parsad

 

+1

It's a hot button issue that will not be resolved here.  The right gets as worked up over transgenderism as the left does about guns.  Right now both sides are reading that statement and thinking "You can't even compare the two! The issue that bothers me is much more important to society than the other one is!"   LOL

 

[Castanza]

11 minutes ago, rkbabang said:

 

+1

It's a hot button issue that will not be resolved here.  The right gets as worked up over transgenderism as the left does about guns.  Right now both sides are reading that statement and thinking "You can't even compare the two! The issue that bothers me is much more important to society than the other one is!"   LOL

 

 

Yet you spent days debating theology, morality, and the existence of God on the other thread  I care about the above to the extent that they affect ME, End of story. 

[cubsfan]

^^^ yeah that’s pretty much it in a nutshell. Transgenderism is just an ideology that’s fanatical and needs to go - no different than the KKK or any other hate organization.

[Spekulatius]

I actually think that most people here, even those that are in opposing camps, would make the same decision if it pertains to sex change of their underage kid and similar cases.

 

Personally, I would not allow it (had a discussion with our son about that) for the simple reason that teenagers tend to change their mind quite often. Once they are at age, they should be able to do whatever they want and of course have to live with their decision.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Spekulatius

[rkbabang]

32 minutes ago, Castanza said:

 

Yet you spent days debating theology, morality, and the existence of God on the other thread  I care about the above to the extent that they affect ME, End of story. 

 

 

Yeah, and I don't think I convinced anyone to change their minds.  Also that thread at least had a subject which said morality from Disney thread or something like that.   I agreed that It shouldn't have been in the Disney discussion, just like this shouldn't be in a "leaving NY" discussion.

 

[Castanza]

I’m sure this will help clean up the streets of NYC  

 

 

[Parsad]

10 hours ago, dwy000 said:

When you combine it as a one issue, the common thread is not liking gay people.  You need to look at each issue independently.

 

I completely agree that trans females shouldn't play sports against other females.  That's just fair and common sense and will sort itself out (with a lot of noise).

 

I don't know what "teaching" trans in class is or who is doing it.  Acknowledging that gay people exist and that you aren't a deviant for having feelings towards your own gender seems more healthy than denying it.  You can't "teach" people to be gay.  And you certainly can't "teach" them to be trans.  They're going to be what they are regardless of what gets taught in school and it's just a question. Of whether you want them to hate themselves or not. 

 

Surgery shouldn't be allowed until over 16. But it's WAY blown out of proportion for the numbers. It's not like thousands of straight kids are being forced to convert and indoctrinated (like say...in Sunday school).

 

+1!  Cheers!