Coronavirus

[KCLarkin]

I think everyone here knows I'm a fiscal conservative, but a liberal socialist when it comes to individual rights.

 

But I have to ask my liberal friends, are we going too far in some issues.  Now they are banning "Gone With the Wind".  What's next, "Forrest Gump?"

 

I knew GWTW was racist when I first saw it as a kid, same with Breakfast at Tiffany's, but are we going to outlaw all movies and books with racist connotations?  We would then have to ban books like "To Kill a Mockingbird", which would serve the opposite purpose of the book's moral outrage at racism.

 

Banning confederate flags at Nascar...yes, I think that is very reasonable.  But when you start skewing history and censoring information written in a historical context or period, you are actually moving closer to the direction of Nazi's than away.

 

And you are talking to a Indo-Canadian kid born in Canada, whose family is made up of Hindus, Punjabis, Blacks, Chinese, Vietnamese, Italian and English backgrounds!  Cheers!

 

Parsad, let's keep this on topic! The official stance is that we are going to allow Greg to repeatedly call black people savages. I've expressed my moral outrage. Let's move on.

 

That is not what happened. No need to be a liar because you got called out. ERICOPOLY posted a CNN article covering protestors who were described as "angry". But what these people were doing fell into the category of assault, looting, arson, vandalism, and several other serious crimes and just in general, boorish behavior. I described them(the protesters doing these things) as savages. You turned it into a race thing. Surprise, surprise. I even pointed out to you, that it was ignorant to assume they were all black, because there were people of many races doing these things.

 

Fine. Eric, let's keep this on topic. But Greg, let's not pretend that you didn't explicitly mention "southern whites" in your post just to make clear which protesters you thought were savages.

[Peregrine]

The fake "wokeness" that has so embedded western culture has become unbearable. Everyone is righteous and everyone is sanctimonious and anyone who disagrees or even questions is evil and demonized.

[rb]

I think everyone here knows I'm a fiscal conservative, but a liberal socialist when it comes to individual rights.

 

But I have to ask my liberal friends, are we going too far in some issues.  Now they are banning "Gone With the Wind".  What's next, "Forrest Gump?"

 

I knew GWTW was racist when I first saw it as a kid, same with Breakfast at Tiffany's, but are we going to outlaw all movies and books with racist connotations?  We would then have to ban books like "To Kill a Mockingbird", which would serve the opposite purpose of the book's moral outrage at racism.

 

Banning confederate flags at Nascar...yes, I think that is very reasonable.  But when you start skewing history and censoring information written in a historical context or period, you are actually moving closer to the direction of Nazi's than away.

 

And you are talking to a Indo-Canadian kid born in Canada, whose family is made up of Hindus, Punjabis, Blacks, Chinese, Vietnamese, Italian and English backgrounds!  Cheers!

 

If we're going to ban confederate flags, you should also ban any other flags that might offend people. It's not right to censor one view just because group X gets offended but allow another flag to go  even though it offends group Y.

That's bullshit. There are plenty of instances of banned flags because of what they represent. Throughout most of the eastern block you cannot display flags with the hammer and sickle for example. In Germany it is illegal to display the Third Reich flag or any nazi symbols. These laws are mainly for a few whackaoos because no organization in their right mind over there would ever display one of these flags or symbols.

 

Keep in mind that these were actually the official country flags for these countries. In some cases for a long period of time and they are banned. The idea of banning the battle flag of a bunch of traitors that started an open insurrection against a country that led to the deadliest war that country has ever experienced isn't that out there.

[KCLarkin]

The fake "wokeness" that has so embedded western culture has become unbearable. Everyone is righteous and everyone is sanctimonious and anyone who disagrees or even questions is evil and demonized.

 

Seriously, can we just stay on topic? I made a fairly simple argument that if everyone had overreacted in February/March, the economic and health impacts of Covid would be much smaller now. I'm not a leftist or a liberal or woke, but I am numerate. Maybe I am a bit slow, but when I look at Covid, I see a simple math problem. Rt > 1 is bad. Rt < 1, virus is contained and we get to live a fairly normal life. So what are the cheapest interventions that get you to Rt < 1?

 

Personally, I think lockdowns were crazy expensive and if Americans had acted a bit more like the Japanese, the economic impact wouldn't be so devastating. But instead, a large portion of the population chose not to take the disease seriously.

[Investor20]

"Japanese tend to more about the culture/community instead of the individual. I think you're right that it can work without lockdowns. I just don't know how well that would work in a more individualistic culture like the most of the west."

 

Probably right. We seem to have a lack of self discipline to the point that would make this difficult.

 

Agreed.

 

Anything that does not include lockdowns is waved away....with some non-explanation.

 

The fact is what is proposed in US and western countries is much more difficult to follow by people than what Japan ever asked their citizens.

 

How difficult is to change your car air to Fresh, or keep your window open once a while. 

 

Yes there may be some work involved in changing the settings of office ventilation systems but they made it part of the guidelines. 

 

How difficult is it to not talk in elevator or other crowded place? 

 

But US authorities never told people to even try them.

 

 

[Guest]

I think everyone here knows I'm a fiscal conservative, but a liberal socialist when it comes to individual rights.

 

But I have to ask my liberal friends, are we going too far in some issues.  Now they are banning "Gone With the Wind".  What's next, "Forrest Gump?"

 

I knew GWTW was racist when I first saw it as a kid, same with Breakfast at Tiffany's, but are we going to outlaw all movies and books with racist connotations?  We would then have to ban books like "To Kill a Mockingbird", which would serve the opposite purpose of the book's moral outrage at racism.

 

Banning confederate flags at Nascar...yes, I think that is very reasonable.  But when you start skewing history and censoring information written in a historical context or period, you are actually moving closer to the direction of Nazi's than away.

 

And you are talking to a Indo-Canadian kid born in Canada, whose family is made up of Hindus, Punjabis, Blacks, Chinese, Vietnamese, Italian and English backgrounds!  Cheers!

 

If we're going to ban confederate flags, you should also ban any other flags that might offend people. It's not right to censor one view just because group X gets offended but allow another flag to go  even though it offends group Y.

That's bullshit. There are plenty of instances of banned flags because of what they represent. Throughout most of the eastern block you cannot display flags with the hammer and sickle for example. In Germany it is illegal to display the Third Reich flag or any nazi symbols. These laws are mainly for a few whackaoos because no organization in their right mind over there would ever display one of these flags or symbols.

 

Keep in mind that these were actually the official country flags for these countries. In some cases for a long period of time and they are banned. The idea of banning the battle flag of a bunch of traitors that started an open insurrection against a country that led to the deadliest war that country has ever experienced isn't that out there.

 

I'm not a fan of the confederate flag but I see no reason why the folks who enjoy that flag should be discriminated against if one is really "tolerant." We're not talking about Germany here. We're talking about the US. Would you be in favor of then, saying banning something like the flag of Japan because we were at war with them at one time and that they bombed Pearl Harbor?

[rb]

"Japanese tend to more about the culture/community instead of the individual. I think you're right that it can work without lockdowns. I just don't know how well that would work in a more individualistic culture like the most of the west."

 

Probably right. We seem to have a lack of self discipline to the point that would make this difficult.

 

Agreed.

 

Anything that does not include lockdowns is waved away....with some non-explanation.

 

The fact is what is proposed in US and western countries is much more difficult to follow by people than what Japan ever asked their citizens.

 

How difficult is to change your car air to Fresh, or keep your window open once a while. 

 

Yes there may be some work involved in changing the settings of office ventilation systems but they made it part of the guidelines. 

 

How difficult is it to not talk in elevator or other crowded place? 

 

But US authorities never told people to even try them.

Most of the things are not hard. How hard is it to put on a mask? Is it done?

[mcliu]

Canada should ban the Canadian flag for what Canada's done to the natives. US should ban Canadian flag for burning down the White House. UK should ban US flag for insurrection and declaring independence. Just ban all flags. Problem solved. ;D

[Parsad]

I think everyone here knows I'm a fiscal conservative, but a liberal socialist when it comes to individual rights.

 

But I have to ask my liberal friends, are we going too far in some issues.  Now they are banning "Gone With the Wind".  What's next, "Forrest Gump?"

 

I knew GWTW was racist when I first saw it as a kid, same with Breakfast at Tiffany's, but are we going to outlaw all movies and books with racist connotations?  We would then have to ban books like "To Kill a Mockingbird", which would serve the opposite purpose of the book's moral outrage at racism.

 

Banning confederate flags at Nascar...yes, I think that is very reasonable.  But when you start skewing history and censoring information written in a historical context or period, you are actually moving closer to the direction of Nazi's than away.

 

And you are talking to a Indo-Canadian kid born in Canada, whose family is made up of Hindus, Punjabis, Blacks, Chinese, Vietnamese, Italian and English backgrounds!  Cheers!

 

If we're going to ban confederate flags, you should also ban any other flags that might offend people. It's not right to censor one view just because group X gets offended but allow another flag to go  even though it offends group Y.

 

The confederate flag's connotations go well past the Civil War and part of history.  It's seen similarly to the Nazi emblems and flags.  A time in history when great atrocities against other human beings were being tolerated and supported.  The only place for these flags and emblems are in historical textbooks or movies addressing these historical times. Tattooing the confederate flag on your body should be viewed exactly the same way as tattooing "SS" or "Swastika" symbols on your body.  Cheers!

[rb]

Canada should ban the Canadian flag for what Canada's done to the natives. US should ban Canadian flag for burning down the White House. UK should ban US flag for insurrection and declaring independence. Just ban all flags. Problem solved. ;D

The Canadian flag didn't even exist when those things happened. For the most part Canada didn't even exist.

[RichardGibbons]

The confederate flag's connotations go well past the Civil War and part of history.  It's seen similarly to the Nazi emblems and flags.  A time in history when great atrocities against other human beings were being tolerated and supported.  The only place for these flags and emblems are in historical textbooks or movies addressing these historical times. Tattooing the confederate flag on your body should be viewed exactly the same way as tattooing "SS" or "Swastika" symbols on your body.  Cheers!

 

Clearly this is true. The Confederation used the flag from 1863 to 1865. People care a lot about it now because it can be used to show hate, not because 150 years ago, people's long-dead ancestors used it for three years.

[rb]

I think everyone here knows I'm a fiscal conservative, but a liberal socialist when it comes to individual rights.

 

But I have to ask my liberal friends, are we going too far in some issues.  Now they are banning "Gone With the Wind".  What's next, "Forrest Gump?"

 

I knew GWTW was racist when I first saw it as a kid, same with Breakfast at Tiffany's, but are we going to outlaw all movies and books with racist connotations?  We would then have to ban books like "To Kill a Mockingbird", which would serve the opposite purpose of the book's moral outrage at racism.

 

Banning confederate flags at Nascar...yes, I think that is very reasonable.  But when you start skewing history and censoring information written in a historical context or period, you are actually moving closer to the direction of Nazi's than away.

 

And you are talking to a Indo-Canadian kid born in Canada, whose family is made up of Hindus, Punjabis, Blacks, Chinese, Vietnamese, Italian and English backgrounds!  Cheers!

 

If we're going to ban confederate flags, you should also ban any other flags that might offend people. It's not right to censor one view just because group X gets offended but allow another flag to go  even though it offends group Y.

That's bullshit. There are plenty of instances of banned flags because of what they represent. Throughout most of the eastern block you cannot display flags with the hammer and sickle for example. In Germany it is illegal to display the Third Reich flag or any nazi symbols. These laws are mainly for a few whackaoos because no organization in their right mind over there would ever display one of these flags or symbols.

 

Keep in mind that these were actually the official country flags for these countries. In some cases for a long period of time and they are banned. The idea of banning the battle flag of a bunch of traitors that started an open insurrection against a country that led to the deadliest war that country has ever experienced isn't that out there.

 

I'm not a fan of the confederate flag but I see no reason why the folks who enjoy that flag should be discriminated against if one is really "tolerant." We're not talking about Germany here. We're talking about the US. Would you be in favor of then, saying banning something like the flag of Japan because we were at war with them at one time and that they bombed Pearl Harbor?

What's the thing with Germany? Are you under the impression it's some sort of tyrannical society that lacks freedom?

 

When you are talking about the confederate flag, you are talking about the Confederate Battle Flag. When it comes to acts of war, there have been many wars. Sometimes countries are allied, sometimes they fight. But without fail, every country in the world looks down more way more harshly on its traitors than it enemies.

 

Now that you've also brought Japan, Pearl Harbor was attacked under the Imperial Army flag of Japan. Which Japan itself removed after WW2. While the US occupied Japan they effectively also banned the Japanese flag over there.

 

Speaking of tolerance, I don't think anyone would be ok with a bunch of ISIS flags flying around just because the folks that do so "enjoy" it.

[Guest]

I think everyone here knows I'm a fiscal conservative, but a liberal socialist when it comes to individual rights.

 

But I have to ask my liberal friends, are we going too far in some issues.  Now they are banning "Gone With the Wind".  What's next, "Forrest Gump?"

 

I knew GWTW was racist when I first saw it as a kid, same with Breakfast at Tiffany's, but are we going to outlaw all movies and books with racist connotations?  We would then have to ban books like "To Kill a Mockingbird", which would serve the opposite purpose of the book's moral outrage at racism.

 

Banning confederate flags at Nascar...yes, I think that is very reasonable.  But when you start skewing history and censoring information written in a historical context or period, you are actually moving closer to the direction of Nazi's than away.

 

And you are talking to a Indo-Canadian kid born in Canada, whose family is made up of Hindus, Punjabis, Blacks, Chinese, Vietnamese, Italian and English backgrounds!  Cheers!

 

If we're going to ban confederate flags, you should also ban any other flags that might offend people. It's not right to censor one view just because group X gets offended but allow another flag to go  even though it offends group Y.

 

The confederate flag's connotations go well past the Civil War and part of history.  It's seen similarly to the Nazi emblems and flags.  A time in history when great atrocities against other human beings were being tolerated and supported.  The only place for these flags and emblems are in historical textbooks or movies addressing these historical times. Tattooing the confederate flag on your body should be viewed exactly the same way as tattooing "SS" or "Swastika" symbols on your body.  Cheers!

 

Don't you think you're being a little bigoted and not inclusive enough (I'm not calling you a bigot by the way, Sanj, just making a point)?

 

Don't you think that everyone should feel welcome to express their "true" self at Nascar races? Yes, I know the confederate flag doesn't represent your values but it represents theirs. Why is it okay to think that your values should oppress theirs? True tolerance and acceptance means diversity - even if you disagree with it.

 

The confederate flag doesn't have to represent slavery. It could mean southern pride or state's rights.

 

Why is it okay to have a rainbow flag for gay pride but not have a confederate flag for southern pride?

 

Plenty of people like the confederate flag. Is it hurting anyone when it's flown?

 

By the way, as an Indian, I'm sure you know that the swastika isn't really from the Nazis. ;)

 

For whatever it's worth, I don't actually support the confederate flag. I'm just trying to get to a point here about "feelings."

 

 

 

[rb]

So you're just trolling.

 

Edit: At least Scottie was honest about it.

[Guest]

So you're just trolling.

 

Edit: At least Scottie was honest about it.

 

Probably somewhat trolling. I am afraid that liberals are going to ban anything they don't like as "hate speech" though.

[rb]

So you're just trolling.

 

Edit: At least Scottie was honest about it.

 

Probably somewhat trolling. I am afraid that liberals are going to ban anything they don't like as "hate speech" though.

As I pointed above, banning flags of traitors and groups that committed atrocities are quite common and not brought to you be raving "libruls".

[mcliu]

Canada should ban the Canadian flag for what Canada's done to the natives. US should ban Canadian flag for burning down the White House. UK should ban US flag for insurrection and declaring independence. Just ban all flags. Problem solved. ;D

The Canadian flag didn't even exist when those things happened. For the most part Canada didn't even exist.

But what about residential schools?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_residential_schools_in_Canada

 

Also, what about British Empire atrocities? Too many to count..

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/worst-atrocities-british-empire-amritsar-boer-war-concentration-camp-mau-mau-a6821756.html

 

 

[Investor20]

"Japanese tend to more about the culture/community instead of the individual. I think you're right that it can work without lockdowns. I just don't know how well that would work in a more individualistic culture like the most of the west."

 

Probably right. We seem to have a lack of self discipline to the point that would make this difficult.

 

Agreed.

 

Anything that does not include lockdowns is waved away....with some non-explanation.

 

The fact is what is proposed in US and western countries is much more difficult to follow by people than what Japan ever asked their citizens.

 

How difficult is to change your car air to Fresh, or keep your window open once a while. 

 

Yes there may be some work involved in changing the settings of office ventilation systems but they made it part of the guidelines. 

 

How difficult is it to not talk in elevator or other crowded place? 

 

But US authorities never told people to even try them.

Most of the things are not hard. How hard is it to put on a mask? Is it done?

Lockdown is very hard on many people.  It is one thing to say open your shop and have good ventilation.  Another to say shut your shop and sit at home.

[Gregmal]

Well, back before everything become racist, the confederate flag was often viewed by people as a sign of southern pride. Synonymous with barbecues, whiskey, guns, and country music. Nothing more, nothing less. But again, this is before the dictators in the coastal cities decided they were unbridled endorsements of slavery and sought to both ban the flag, and ruin the lives of anyone who contested their idea of what the flagged represented.

[Guest]

So you're just trolling.

 

Edit: At least Scottie was honest about it.

 

Probably somewhat trolling. I am afraid that liberals are going to ban anything they don't like as "hate speech" though.

As I pointed above, banning flags of traitors and groups that committed atrocities are quite common and not brought to you be raving "libruls".

 

Yes, but that's only because the union won. If the confederacy had won, we would be the "traitors." Indeed, if the Nazis would have won WWII, they would calling our side for the "atrocities" too.

[KCLarkin]

Well, back before everything become racist, the confederate flag was often viewed by people as a sign of southern pride. Synonymous with barbecues, whiskey, guns, and country music. Nothing more, nothing less. But again, this is before the dictators in the coastal cities decided they were unbridled endorsements of slavery and sought to both ban the flag, and ruin the lives of anyone who contested their idea of what the flagged represented.

 

Greg, I am sorry for calling you the r-word.

 

Here is a picture of some proud southerners enjoying their BBQ, whiskey, guns, and country music in the good old days of American greatness.

[rb]

So you're just trolling.

 

Edit: At least Scottie was honest about it.

 

Probably somewhat trolling. I am afraid that liberals are going to ban anything they don't like as "hate speech" though.

As I pointed above, banning flags of traitors and groups that committed atrocities are quite common and not brought to you be raving "libruls".

 

Yes, but that's only because the union won. If the confederacy had won, we would be the "traitors." Indeed, if the Nazis would have won WWII, they would calling our side for the "atrocities" too.

Ummmm... no, since you see the Union was going about its business. It was not it that started an insurrection. It was the Southern states. Keep trolling though.

[Guest]

So you're just trolling.

 

Edit: At least Scottie was honest about it.

 

Probably somewhat trolling. I am afraid that liberals are going to ban anything they don't like as "hate speech" though.

As I pointed above, banning flags of traitors and groups that committed atrocities are quite common and not brought to you be raving "libruls".

 

Yes, but that's only because the union won. If the confederacy had won, we would be the "traitors." Indeed, if the Nazis would have won WWII, they would calling our side for the "atrocities" too.

Ummmm... no, since you see the Union was going about its business. It was not it that started an insurrection. It was the Southern states. Keep trolling though.

 

History is written by the victors.

[Gregmal]

So you're just trolling.

 

Edit: At least Scottie was honest about it.

 

Probably somewhat trolling. I am afraid that liberals are going to ban anything they don't like as "hate speech" though.

As I pointed above, banning flags of traitors and groups that committed atrocities are quite common and not brought to you be raving "libruls".

 

Yes, but that's only because the union won. If the confederacy had won, we would be the "traitors." Indeed, if the Nazis would have won WWII, they would calling our side for the "atrocities" too.

 

Eh thats a bad argument. As you know, a moral compass is not guided by who wins. That said, a flag is a piece of cloth. It means different things to different people. We've seen this in many instances, for a long time. Even down to gangbangers shooting people up over disrespecting their flag/colors. As I mentioned, to many folks in the south, its just a symbol of southern pride.

 

Well, back before everything become racist, the confederate flag was often viewed by people as a sign of southern pride. Synonymous with barbecues, whiskey, guns, and country music. Nothing more, nothing less. But again, this is before the dictators in the coastal cities decided they were unbridled endorsements of slavery and sought to both ban the flag, and ruin the lives of anyone who contested their idea of what the flagged represented.

 

 

Greg, I am sorry for calling you the r-word.

 

Here is a picture of some proud southerners enjoying their BBQ, whiskey, guns, and country music in the good old days of American greatness.

 

 

Im just filling people in on some of the cultural perspective. Ive never flown a flag in my life and think they are essentially what the religious zealots call, false idols. I lived in Florida for a bit and its definitely something many people, of varying races incorporate into their lives. Bumper stickers, hats, bandanas, etc. This was about a decade ago, so perhaps thats all changed. But again, to just blindly associate it with slavery and hate ignores the perspectives of many of the folks down there and where they are coming from.

[Guest]

So you're just trolling.

 

Edit: At least Scottie was honest about it.

 

Probably somewhat trolling. I am afraid that liberals are going to ban anything they don't like as "hate speech" though.

As I pointed above, banning flags of traitors and groups that committed atrocities are quite common and not brought to you be raving "libruls".

 

Yes, but that's only because the union won. If the confederacy had won, we would be the "traitors." Indeed, if the Nazis would have won WWII, they would calling our side for the "atrocities" too.

 

Eh thats a bad argument. As you know, a moral compass is not guided by who wins. That said, a flag is a piece of cloth. It means different things to different people. We've seen this in many instances, for a long time. Even down to gangbangers shooting people up over disrespecting their flag/colors. As I mentioned, to many folks in the south, its just a symbol of southern pride.

 

 

What drives a moral compass then if not society? I love the morality question!  ;D