Coronavirus

[Liberty]

"FDA revokes emergency use ruling for hydroxychloroquine"

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/15/fda-revokes-hydroxychloroquine/

[Liberty]

Texas: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Texas-set-a-new-record-for-COVID-19-15337187.php

[DocSnowball]

Taleb on masks: https://medium.com/incerto/the-masks-masquerade-7de897b517b7

 

You look at all the economic devastation caused by the virus. Of all the things individual people can do to get the economy back to normal, wearing a mask when out is the most simple and most effective. Given our need to get the economy back to normal as quickly as possible wearing masks when out should be a requirement. But governments in US and Canada would look stupid (given previous communication on wearing masks) so this will likely not happen. So most people will continue to not wear masks when out; and many of these same people will bitch and complain about the need for the government to end restrictions and get the economy back to normal. Crazy times :-)

 

Taleb has 6 reasons why masks help. Here is one of them:

 

Third Error: Mistaking Absence of Evidence for Evidence of Absence

 

“There is no evidence that masks work”, I kept hearing repeated to me by the usual idiots calling themselves “evidence based” scientists. The point is that there is no evidence that locking the door tonight will prevent me from being burglarized. But everything that may block transmission could help. Unlike school, real life is not about certainties. When in doubt, use what protection you can. Some invoked the flawed rationalization that masks induce false confidence: in fact there is a strong argument that masks makes one more alert to the risks and more conservative in behavior.

 

So true - in infection prevention a commonly used approach is to bundle up all the interventions that may work, and deploy them together. Sad to see the CDC not champion this approach when it has mattered most. We all have needed to figure out and deploy our own bundles in this vacuum that lack of good public health advice has created, and unfortunately that's not good enough against this virus.

 

CDC did come up with some guidance June 12th on personal and social activities, link below:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/activities.html

[cwericb]

At last!

 

Seems they have finally found the way to stop the spread of Covid-19.

 

Trump today announced that "'if we stop testing right now, we'd have very few cases'

 

So it was all those tests that have been causing it. Who knew that the source of the virus was right in front of us all along.

[Gregmal]

At last!

 

Seems they have finally found the way to stop the spread of Covid-19.

 

Trump today announced that "'if we stop testing right now, we'd have very few cases'

 

So it was all those tests that have been causing it. Who knew that the source of the virus was right in front of us all along.

 

I mean if you go back to January and February, even early March, it was here, and people were fine, economy was strong.....This has largely been a man made circus heavily influenced by political biases. For most of the population, this is no worse than the flu. Yet you have people now with PTSD. I was out on the boat the other day and saw a couple, sunbathing on their personal property dock, wearing facemasks to go with bathing suits, even though nobody was within 500 ft! Pure insanity.

 

Testing helps, sure. But when people get too scrupulous with creating stories from the numbers...thats the problem and what I'd imagine was Trumps point. I mean we're again seeing "SOARING CASES IN FLORIDA" blasted everywhere. I then go look at the data and its two freakin thousand people and most are in Miami-Dade Broward.... big whoop. "TEXAS ON THE BRINK OF DISASTER"... 1100 cases. Georgia was supposed to go to hell in a hand basket because they bucked all the advice of the pundits and "irresponsibly" opened way too early. Despite this, 52k total cases, 800 a day. Get a slight uptick? The fear-mongering starts in again. Its clear what the agenda is.

[Gregmal]

I mean did everyone forget about the crisis that was unfolding because of all the horribly irresponsible spring breakers partying? Or the humanitarian crisis in NOLA because of Mardi Gras. So much of this "crisis" has been media fueled nonsense that it unfortunately takes away from the seriousness of it in other respects; such as protecting senior citizens and at risk...an area that has been horribly handled, but mysteriously gets very little coverage.

[Spekulatius]

At least some of thee recent surge might have been caused by Memorial Day activities . Timing would be about right - you get an infection and it multiplies though a family and you get a surge. If that’s the root cause I should mot likely ebb pretty soon.

 

No surge in states that had high numbers before perhaps because  people were more careful there? Hard to tell.

 

Anecdotally, I have seen no evidence of Memorial Day parties with several families in my neighborhood.

[cwericb]

I find it surprising you still seem to be trying to minimize the Covid-19.

 

A few months ago you were telling us that this was “basically the flu” and you would be concerned when you could count the deaths on the fingers of one hand in any state or if there were a few dozen deaths in the whole US.

You give the impression that this is still not any worse than the flu.

 

Just FYI.  116,000 people in the US have died and that number is climbing daily. Trump and his third world administration - that you seem to support - have so badly handled this that the US accounts for nearly 30% of the world’s Covid deaths, while only accounting for 4% of the world population.

 

This ain't no flu. And it is going to get a lot worse.

[cubsfan]

What a moron Andrew Cuomo is - and I thought his brother was a loser...

 

https://amgreatness.com/2020/06/15/250-inmates-freed-in-new-york-rearrested-450-times/

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo’s (D-N.Y.) plan to free thousands of inmates due to the coronavirus pandemic has proven to be a complete disaster, with many of the criminals promptly being rearrested.

 

It has been reported that out of the 2,500 inmates released from the federal prison at Rikers Island, 250 had been rearrested a collective total of 450 times for repeat offenses since they were first released. The information came from the NYPD’s Michael LiPetri, Chief of Crime Control Strategies.

 

The policy has been widely condemned for presenting a clear danger to public safety, as many of the released criminals are violent offenders, including murderers and rapists.

[cwericb]

Yeah, when you give assholes a break some of them are still going to be assholes. Put them in the Covid ward. I have no sympathy for them. You would think that if you had been let out of jail you would try to avoid going back. Then again those idiots probably liked it better in jail where they get 3 meals a day and a bed for free.

[Gregmal]

I find it surprising you still seem to be trying to minimize the Covid-19.

 

A few months ago you were telling us that this was “basically the flu” and you would be concerned when you could count the deaths on the fingers of one hand in any state or if there were a few dozen deaths in the whole US.

You give the impression that this is still not any worse than the flu.

 

Just FYI.  116,000 people in the US have died and that number is climbing daily. Trump and his third world administration - that you seem to support - have so badly handled this that the US accounts for nearly 30% of the world’s Covid deaths, while only accounting for 4% of the world population.

 

This ain't no flu. And it is going to get a lot worse.

 

Of course it needs to be minimized....everybody with a voice just spent 3 months maximizing it! Yes, sadly this is a virus we dont have a cure for or from the get go, knew little about. So yes, older people and those with underlying conditions are going to die. However, at the same time, we just saw governments destroy their economies, murder peoples small businesses, and talk about sensational bullshit including "extinction level" events. The reckless kids on spring break were supposed to spread this everywhere...didnt happen. Georgia was supposed to be the new Italy, no wait, Florida was, you know, with all the old people. All for what? People who had knowledge, like orthopa, from day one had this pegged correctly. Yet arrogantly, and driven by political motives, know nothings just screamed louder and here, disparaged those who suggested things different than their narratives told them.

 

The only "new Italy" turns out to be NYC. Pretty much ALL of the major hotspots turn out to be liberal hubs. Yet still, you want to blame this on "the Trump administration"... its pathetic. The only silver lining, is that because of all this bullshit, propaganda, and zombie apocalypse porn, some got to buy stocks at obscene valuations and make vast sums is relatively short order.

 

But geez, for folks who claimed "millions" would die, it is quite the rearranging of goal posts to now claim "oh 100k died because the administration did such a poor job"(again, when most of the deaths occurred in liberal cesspool cities).... well, except for Dalal, who implied all this disaster but refused to ever make projection or commit to anything.

[SnarkyPuppy]

I find it surprising you still seem to be trying to minimize the Covid-19.

 

A few months ago you were telling us that this was “basically the flu” and you would be concerned when you could count the deaths on the fingers of one hand in any state or if there were a few dozen deaths in the whole US.

You give the impression that this is still not any worse than the flu.

 

Just FYI.  116,000 people in the US have died and that number is climbing daily. Trump and his third world administration - that you seem to support - have so badly handled this that the US accounts for nearly 30% of the world’s Covid deaths, while only accounting for 4% of the world population.

 

This ain't no flu. And it is going to get a lot worse.

 

Of course it needs to be minimized....everybody with a voice just spent 3 months maximizing it! Yes, sadly this is a virus we dont have a cure for or from the get go, knew little about. So yes, older people and those with underlying conditions are going to die. However, at the same time, we just saw governments destroy their economies, murder peoples small businesses, and talk about sensational bullshit including "extinction level" events. The reckless kids on spring break were supposed to spread this everywhere...didnt happen. Georgia was supposed to be the new Italy, no wait, Florida was, you know, with all the old people. All for what? People who had knowledge, like orthopa, from day one had this pegged correctly. Yet arrogantly, and driven by political motives, know nothings just screamed louder and here, disparaged those who suggested things different than their narratives told them.

 

The only "new Italy" turns out to be NYC. Pretty much ALL of the major hotspots turn out to be liberal hubs. Yet still, you want to blame this on "the Trump administration"... its pathetic. The only silver lining, is that because of all this bullshit, propaganda, and zombie apocalypse porn, some got to buy stocks at obscene valuations and make vast sums is relatively short order.

 

But geez, for folks who claimed "millions" would die, it is quite the rearranging of goal posts to now claim "oh 100k died because the administration did such a poor job"(again, when most of the deaths occurred in liberal cesspool cities).... well, except for Dalal, who implied all this disaster but refused to ever make projection or commit to anything.

 

Re: the "millions" quote-  I understand the average layman being confused by the projections != results but you are an investor.  How is it possible that you are so unaware of the sensitivity of models on large numbers due to small changes in key variables?

 

Incredible to continue to be minimizing something that's killed 100k people in 4months despite lockdown measures.  It can be true that it's a big deal AND not as big of a deal as it could have been. 

 

In this thread = people back-propogating what they want to be true based on their own personal biases/situations.  On both sides.  If you use the term "liberal" in discussing the effects of a novel virus, get the f* out of the lab.  If you post links of more people being infected/higher hospitalizations w/ no consideration of confounding variables, get the f* out of the lab. 

[Dalal.Holdings]

This is why I no longer post here. You get the level of analysis you deserve, CoBF!

[cubsfan]

This is why I no longer post here. You get the level of analysis you deserve, CoBF!

 

Mainly, it was the way you were so brutal on Orthopa and some others that tried to support the contrarian case with real arguments.

 

And your support of NYC mayor/administration and idiot Governor Cuomo was priceless!

[Gregmal]

LOL yea, sure. Nothing at all to do with the political narrative being significantly less appealing given the way this has played out....

 

CoBF, an investment website, deserves a little more than hysteria, fear mongering, and OMG sell everything during times of market chaos, or so one would think. There was no bigger cheerleader of all those things than you, Dalal.

[Dalal.Holdings]

It’s all politics! Millions of cases since January! Like the Flu! Only dense blue areas affected due to poor mgmt but not R0! Ignore Miami and Houston and dumb graphs I don’t understand! Good luck

[cwericb]

 

“Of course it needs to be minimized...”

 

Really?

 

Ignore it and it will go away? It is unbelievable that some STILL haven’t clued in to what is going on and are still following the official line of the Buffoon-in-Chief.

 

This is serious sh*t and with Trump seemingly sticking his head in the sand and ignoring it will not make it go away. In fact this thinking has is causing thousands and thousands of unnecessary deaths.

 

Those are not just numbers. Those are DEAD people. And to assume those are just old people or people with medical problems is simply ignoring the realities.

 

The gross mishandling of this disaster is proven out by the fact that the US accounts for about 30% of world Covid deaths while accounting for just 4% of world population. Want to try and justify that? The US is handling the epidemic worse than third world countries. Why?

 

And while you are so worried about the economy,  you still don’t seem to understand that this line of thinking may very well lead to another major shut own of the economy. 

 

Now, of course there are those cynics among us who may think that Trump is not that stupid. Perhaps he is making a smart strategic move to retain power by postponing elections indefinitely and using the pandemic as an excuse.

[cubsfan]

 

“Of course it needs to be minimized...”

 

 

Now, of course there are those cynics among us who may think that Trump is not that stupid. Perhaps he is making a smart strategic move to retain power by postponing elections indefinitely and using the pandemic as an excuse.

 

Brilliant !  Yes, of course!

 

It's another "conspiracy", another "collusion" event!  Just like the Russia Hoax, the Ukrainian Scandal,

 

You nailed it this time once again. Get Robert Mueller on it, so you can impeach the Tyrant.

 

I hear Michael Avenatti may be released from prison due to the CoronaVirus -  Just in time for him to run against Trump. That's you man.

 

You never give up with your BS.

 

 

[Guest]

If the government couldn't magically create money, would you guys be in favor of a shut down then?

 

So, your options would be 1) keep the economy open to (hopefully) avoid a depression 2) shut down and probably have a depression

[Gregmal]

 

“Of course it needs to be minimized...”

 

Really?

 

Ignore it and it will go away? It is unbelievable that some STILL haven’t clued in to what is going on and are still following the official line of the Buffoon-in-Chief.

 

This is serious sh*t and with Trump seemingly sticking his head in the sand and ignoring it will not make it go away. In fact this thinking has is causing thousands and thousands of unnecessary deaths.

 

Those are not just numbers. Those are DEAD people. And to assume those are just old people or people with medical problems is simply ignoring the realities.

 

The gross mishandling of this disaster is proven out by the fact that the US accounts for about 30% of world Covid deaths while accounting for just 4% of world population. Want to try and justify that? The US is handling the epidemic worse than third world countries. Why?

 

And while you are so worried about the economy,  you still don’t seem to understand that this line of thinking may very well lead to another major shut own of the economy. 

 

Now, of course there are those cynics among us who may think that Trump is not that stupid. Perhaps he is making a smart strategic move to retain power by postponing elections indefinitely and using the pandemic as an excuse.

 

Its amazing, if you dare use that same logic and apply it to other situations....IDK, perhaps tangentially relating to so called "police brutality" its met with denouncement and cries of racism.

 

But anyway, yea. I guess when you dont officially set goal posts you can constantly shift them. People unfortunately die. This is part of life. I wish this wasn't the case, but it is. You arent griping about car accidents..totally avoidable. Cancer kills tons of people. We haver a pandemic. A virus with no vaccine yet. This stuff is inevitable. Its just amusing how you want to throw it all on the President when its consistently been blue city government officials leading with way with case/death counts. I mean, Trump sure fucked up with his NYC nursing home call! And I bet when its all said and done there is ample evidence to support the notion that more lives were destroyed by overzealous governments who thought it wise to destroy their local economies and unconstitutionally force their small businesses to shut down while letting people choose between Wal-Mart and Amazon for all their daily needs...

 

So yes, I think its clear things needed to be minimized quite a bit, down just a notch from "extinction level event".

[KCLarkin]

If the government couldn't magically create money, would you guys be in favor of a shut down then?

 

So, your options would be 1) keep the economy open to (hopefully) avoid a depression 2) shut down and probably have a depression

 

Lockdowns were required due to incompetence. As Sweden shows, the economy is impacted by the virus whether you lockdown or not. The best way to reduce the economic impact is to take the virus seriously in the early stages. Lockdowns are a blunt, destructive force. They are the "break glass in case of emergency" option.

 

Orthopa, Gregmal, Cubsfan, Trump, De Blasio, and the rest of the "it's just a flu crowd" are a big part of this problem. If everyone had overreacted in February, none of this would have happened. Now the US is in the worst possible spot, they acted just enough to destroy the economy but not enough to contain the virus.

[Jurgis]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/coronavirus-recommendations-ignored-as-case-numbers-rise/2020/06/15/0c112bdc-af3a-11ea-8758-bfd1d045525a_story.html

 

Summary: infections and deaths continue to increase; likely no lockdowns and likely mask wearing and social distancing t®end to be ignored.

 

People die, but hey it's USA!

[Read the Footnotes]

This is why I no longer post here. You get the level of analysis you deserve, CoBF!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

[Gregmal]

Yes! Everyone who isn't hiding under a table in their basement is part of the problem....LOL. Just like how the word "savage" being used to describe violent, looting protesters(many times over, documented in the media as being of a variety of skin colors, even whites!) is racist and in need of issuing an apology! You really hit the nail on the head KCLarkin. Please let me know what other words you commander from Mariam Webster and throw in your big, blue, liberal bucket of racist words. Jeez, it never ends.

[KCLarkin]

Trump today announced that "'if we stop testing right now, we'd have very few cases'

 

Ontario is an interesting counter-example to this theory. After the virus peaked in mid-April, the correlation between increased testing  and cases disappeared. If anything, there appears to be an inverse correlation. Optimistically, this could indicate that test-trace-isolate is working in Ontario:

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EapBTWcXYAMM-re?format=jpg&name=small