Castanza Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/victoria-australia-no-new-coronavirus-cases_n_5fc2734ac5b61d04bfaa183a Australia’s second-largest state, Victoria, once the country’s COVID-19 hotspot, said on Friday it has gone 28 days without detecting any new infections, a benchmark widely cited as eliminating the virus from the community. The state also has zero active cases after the last COVID-19 patient was discharged from hospital this week, a far cry from August when Victoria recorded more than 700 cases in one day and active infections totalled nearly 8,000. The spread of the virus was only contained after a lockdown lasting more than 100 days, leaving some 5 million people in Melbourne, Australia’s second largest city, largely confined to their homes. I'm not so sure that their lockdown is entirely responsible for their low case count. Australia is in summer right now and it's becoming increasingly clear that this virus is highly seasonal. We didn't hit zero in the US during summer. The numbers actually went UP as we entered summer coincident with lifting restrictions. The summer increase in the US was almost entirely relegated to the sunbelt stats, where it was so hot that people had to gather indoors. Perhaps seasonal isn't the right word but rather the conditions that force people to gather in enclosed settings. And holiday travel. On the other hand, restaurants and bars were able to seat people outdoors. But how does this differ from Australia's state of Victoria? So you're advocating for extreme lockdowns like Australia? Didn't they only allow people 1 hour of "outside time"?
Gregmal Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 https://nypost.com/2020/12/01/la-politician-dines-outdoors-hours-after-vote-to-ban-the-practice/ Another hypocrite. And a real beauty too!
ERICOPOLY Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 So you're advocating for extreme lockdowns like Australia? Didn't they only allow people 1 hour of "outside time"? I presented a fact without an advocacy position.
LC Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 As have these: https://i.redd.it/mlwvk5015l261.jpg Both are sad. There must be a compromise solution.
Castanza Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 As have these: https://i.redd.it/mlwvk5015l261.jpg Both are sad. There must be a compromise solution. Encourage masks, hand washing, social distancing. Encourage high risk individuals to stay home/be cautious and to get the vaccine when it comes out. Allow others to go on with life. To me that's reasonable
ERICOPOLY Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 As have these: https://i.redd.it/mlwvk5015l261.jpg Both are sad. There must be a compromise solution. Encourage masks, hand washing, social distancing. Encourage high risk individuals to stay home/be cautious and to get the vaccine when it comes out. Allow others to go on with life. To me that's reasonable It remains to be seen if there will be enough hospital beds.
Castanza Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 As have these: https://i.redd.it/mlwvk5015l261.jpg Both are sad. There must be a compromise solution. Encourage masks, hand washing, social distancing. Encourage high risk individuals to stay home/be cautious and to get the vaccine when it comes out. Allow others to go on with life. To me that's reasonable It remains to be seen if there will be enough hospital beds. What’s your point?
ERICOPOLY Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 This debate reminds me of the free and unrestricted trade debate. There will be a great sucking sound (quite literally, with a hospital full of people gasping for breath). In this case, there may be a great sucking sound.
ERICOPOLY Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 As have these: https://i.redd.it/mlwvk5015l261.jpg Both are sad. There must be a compromise solution. Encourage masks, hand washing, social distancing. Encourage high risk individuals to stay home/be cautious and to get the vaccine when it comes out. Allow others to go on with life. To me that's reasonable It remains to be seen if there will be enough hospital beds. What’s your point? That it remains to be seen if there will be enough hospital beds.
Gregmal Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 And that should fall on the establishments who had months to plan. For a private institution, same as a hotel, sorry we're full. For public resources, well, perhaps the geniuses in government should have planned or made incentives better rather than going out to eat and party and get their hair done...China did it in 8 days....This isn't my problem or the average citizens problem. At least it shouldn't be.
ERICOPOLY Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 Coronavirus Live Updates: California Gov. Warns Of New Stay-At-Home Orders https://www.huffpost.com/entry/covid-19-updates-vaccine-arrival-holidays_n_5fbbb56ec5b68ca87f7d481f But, in practice, his covid-19 rules typically don't really apply where I live (and I do live in California).
ERICOPOLY Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 And that should fall on the establishments who had months to plan. For a private institution, same as a hotel, sorry we're full. For public resources, well, perhaps the geniuses in government should have planned or made incentives better rather than going out to eat and party and get their hair done...China did it in 8 days....This isn't my problem or the average citizens problem. At least it shouldn't be. So many of the hospitals are private. We can have the socialized medicine debate so the government can tell them what to do.
Cigarbutt Posted December 1, 2020 Posted December 1, 2020 Yesterday, one of my daughters (the one who tends to ask questions i have no reasonable answer to) sat down for a chat. Summary of the conversation: -Why will we have to curtail activities with family and friends for the upcoming holiday season? -Because of those who don't know and those who don't want to know. Don't let it control your life, they say.
Investor20 Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/30/fauci-flip-flops-on-in-person-learning-after-ignoring-data-on-low-covid-spread-in-schools/ Fauci Flip Flops On In-Person Learning After Ignoring Data On Low COVID Spread In Schools "If you look at the data, the spread among children and from children is not really very big at all, not like one would have suspected,” he added (Dr. Fauci). But others have noted this long time back. This is Dr. Bhattacharya regarding re-opening schools https://news.wfsu.org/state-news/2020-08-20/state-calls-parents-doctors-as-witnesses-in-school-reopen-challenges-second-day-of-hearings August 20, 2020 “The main finding from that literature is that kids do not pass the disease on to adults at any appreciable rate,” Bhattacharya “The risk that kids pose to adults is very very small, even if they’re positive.” "There, Dr. Bhattacharya cited a study done in Iceland, published in the New England Journal of Medicine. " This Iceland study is from May. https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/icelandic-study-we-have-not-found-a-single-instance-of-a-child-infecting-parents/ Icelandic Study: ‘We Have Not Found a Single Instance of a Child Infecting Parents.’ May 11, 2020
Gregmal Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 https://nypost.com/2020/12/01/la-politician-dines-outdoors-hours-after-vote-to-ban-the-practice/ Another hypocrite. And a real beauty too! Kuppy said it better than I! LMFAO
cubsfan Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 https://nypost.com/2020/12/01/la-politician-dines-outdoors-hours-after-vote-to-ban-the-practice/ Another hypocrite. And a real beauty too! Kuppy said it better than I! LMFAO The hits keep on coming - now the Mayor of San Francisco: https://www.dailywire.com/news/san-francisco-mayor-attended-ritzy-dinner-three-days-before-banning-indoor-dining At the time of the dinner, such an outing would have been illegal in Breed’s city of San Francisco, which had banned dining indoors or outdoors in a group larger than six people and with more than one household present. Three days after the her French Laundry dinner, Breed banned indoor dining across her city.
ukvalueinvestment Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 But they were following the rules at the time weren't they?
Gregmal Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 It doesnt matter if they were "following the rules" at the time. Personally, I think this is unconstitutional to make these sorts of "rules". But regardless, its the entire premise. In the instance of Ms. Piggy... If its unsafe, why are you dining? And if it isn't, why are you banning folks from doing it and shutting down businesses?
clutch Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 Guys, it's not surprising at all these people are breaking their own rules. Remember that Neil Ferguson, the UK epidemiologist who arguably brought the lockdown approach to this world, broke the lockdown rules to be together with his non-marital lover. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
ukvalueinvestment Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 It doesnt matter if they were "following the rules" at the time. Personally, I think this is unconstitutional to make these sorts of "rules". But regardless, its the entire premise. In the instance of Ms. Piggy... If its unsafe, why are you dining? And if it isn't, why are you banning folks from doing it and shutting down businesses? I see what you mean but you also have to treat politicians in the same way as the rest of the population. If it was "allowed", and they acted in a responsible way (masks etc), there are better targets for criticism in my view.
Gregmal Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 I think its different when you are one of the people making the rules. I had a similar experience on a volunteer HOA board once. There was, like with many HOAs, stupid procedural rules required if one wanted to have satellite tv. The install needed to be approved by the board, through the management company. On a regular basis certain trustees, all of whom had satellites, would vote against others having it because "it was dangerous if it fell", "it doesnt look good", etc. I get to have what I want, but I get to tell you what you can have, is absolutely despicable behavior.
ERICOPOLY Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 I think its different when you are one of the people making the rules. I had a similar experience on a volunteer HOA board once. There was, like with many HOAs, stupid procedural rules required if one wanted to have satellite tv. The install needed to be approved by the board, through the management company. On a regular basis certain trustees, all of whom had satellites, would vote against others having it because "it was dangerous if it fell", "it doesnt look good", etc. I get to have what I want, but I get to tell you what you can have, is absolutely despicable behavior. From the very beginning , government officials haven't led by example and this has undermined their own efforts. The CDC makes recommendations, people don't see the government leaders following them. Monkey see, monkey do.
Investor20 Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 I think its different when you are one of the people making the rules. I had a similar experience on a volunteer HOA board once. There was, like with many HOAs, stupid procedural rules required if one wanted to have satellite tv. The install needed to be approved by the board, through the management company. On a regular basis certain trustees, all of whom had satellites, would vote against others having it because "it was dangerous if it fell", "it doesnt look good", etc. I get to have what I want, but I get to tell you what you can have, is absolutely despicable behavior. From the very beginning , government officials haven't led by example and this has undermined their own efforts. The CDC makes recommendations, people don't see the government leaders following them. Monkey see, monkey do. It is not enough for CDC or Fauci to say I told you - you follow. To convince people to loose their job, shut their business, keep their children off the school, they need to provide much more information. The HCQ is used in many countries outside US and countries that are using are having less CFR, not more. For example a very crowded country like Bangladesh uses HCQ, their seroprevalence shows very high infection, but if you check their death rate, its very low. While Remdesivir which is used in US, WHO says "Health officials reviewing Gilead Science Inc’s remdesivir against COVID-19 should consider all evidence, including a trial in which the medicine failed, before giving it the green light, the top WHO scientist said on Friday." https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-remdesivir-who-idINKBN279055 Remdesivir is a medicine that can be only given late because it requires 5 days of IV infusion and costs 3000$ + hospitalization costs. I think they need to provide more studies, data, etc to convince people rather than just saying and asking people to be obedient.
Investor20 Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 Bangladesh a very crowded country unlike Australia Bangladesh recommends controversial drugs for Covid-19 treatment https://tbsnews.net/coronavirus-chronicle/covid-19-bangladesh/bangladesh-recommends-controversial-drugs-covid-19 45pc of Dhaka people have COVID-19 antibody https://www.newagebd.net/article/118779/45pc-of-dhaka-people-have-covid-19-antibody https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries Bangladesh is 122nd in deaths per million with 41 deaths per million.
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