Investor20 Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 In Japan they had no shelter in place and only masks, cleaning hands and disinfecting and they have very low Covid deaths. I also thought it was very interesting what Cuomo said. Why is the administration only ordering proper masks to be produced for front-line workers? Trump is visiting one such plant this Friday, and Trump had to be told that he must wear a mask (and this no doubt is because Pence showed up at Mayo without one, and claimed he didn't know about their mask requirement). What people who talk about places without lockdown fail to understand is that that boat had sailed for the US. If you had strict hygiene and masks and people who understood things very early on, did good contact tracing, R0 will stay low enough that you can contain things. But if you don't and it just runs wild and exponentially double and double and double for a while, you are past the point where you can compare yourself to Japan or South Korea or Taiwan or New Zealand or whatever. You don't get to just decide you want these countries' results without having done what they did. The data cited is for NY which had high infection rate.
Gregmal Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 I don't know. But swastikas do have a tendency to show up at these things don't they? I dont know, but it seems "people" show up to these things. Sometimes there is a heavy skew, but other times there isn't. Here, it's pretty widespread. But hey, when you have a camera, and can take your snapshots "opportunistically" and then present the narrative to people relying on the "news", yea.... but you guys know this. Its just convenient when it fits the desired narrative.
RichardGibbons Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 One interesting contrast for the crowd who believes that the whole world is out to get Trump is the reaction to Doug Ford, the premier of Ontario. When Ford was elected, people were literally calling him "Donald Trump of the North" (for the obvious reasons: a populist, conservative, not too bright, loves applause....) Nevertheless, in general, the media has been lauding Ford for his efforts on COVID-19. Most of the reporting is basically, "wow, this guy can actually deal with a crisis and govern." It's an interesting contrast, particularly considering that, Canada's media is to the left of America's. I think the main difference--to those who actually care about objective reality--is that this crisis has revealed Trump's incompetence. It's essentially a crisis tailor-made to fit Trump's weaknesses. In contrast, it's revealed Ford's competence and perhaps a difference in willingness to listen to experts.
Liberty Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 Snopes looking into the anti-lockdown protests: https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/05/20/michigan-lockdown-protesters/ Ha! Ive been waiting for them to try to bridge this. The playbook is all too obvious by now. Protestors = white supremist Trump supporters. Thats where they'll take this. Just wait. No amount of evidence would convince tribal magical thinkers like you, so it's moot. These guys can come out and say that this is who they are and why they do what they do and you wouldn't believe it if it was inconvenient to you. Obviously this doesn't mean that everybody who protests or agrees with the protests knows about everything or is part of the same clique, but it's still interesting to look at the leadership of these groups and see who organized things, right?
Liberty Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 Trump summoned them out from under their rocks with his April 17th tweet of “Liberate Michigan!”. In doing so, he was blaming the Governors for stay-at-home policy. Trump of course also had a stay at home policy of his own. It most definitely is motivated by his 2020 campaign — just a coincidence that Michigan is an important state to win and the Democratic governor gave the convention speech this year? She is being groomed by the party and would be an ideal running mate for Biden. She is like a brainy Sarah Palin. The other candidates like Warren and Klobuchar need to retain their seats in Congress for the party. Trump even directed Pence not to answer her calls as he has been scheming to undermine Michigan’s success. This is part of Trump's M.O. He says a thing and its opposite all the time, depending on how the wind is blowing that day, so that later he can cherry pick something he said and say "see, I was right" and then gaslight us about the other thing ("I never said that, I didnt mean it, it was sarcasm, fake news, etc").
Investor20 Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/cdc-coronavirus-mainly-spreads-through-persontoperson-contact-and-does-not-spread-easily-on-contaminated-surfaces-153317029.html CDC: Coronavirus mainly spreads through person-to-person contact and 'does not spread easily' on contaminated surfaces “Based on the epidemiology, we know that the main way this virus is infecting people is from direct contact with other infected people,” Adalja says. “Contaminated surfaces play some role, but it’s likely much smaller.” It also makes sense, too, he says: “This is a respiratory virus, and respiratory viruses largely spread through breathing in infected respiratory droplets.” The person to person contact can be minimized by not hugging, kissing, hand shaking, etc. The respiratory droplets breathing can be reduced by masks, giving safe distance and just being outside. All these can be done without shutting people in their homes. In Japan, the law wont let the government mandate shelter in place. So the government there had to request people to follow guidelines, and shut down schools. But still they could not mandate kids not to play outside. People who could afford to shut their shops did. People who couldnt afford to shut down ran their businesses with safeguards. That is a much better way to treat your citizens. But above two reasons given in the article for transmission, person-person contact, droplets can be controlled while working. https://time.com/5830612/japan-coronavirus-golden-week/ Why Many Japanese People Are Ignoring Their Government’s Pleas to Stay Home During a Major Holiday Break "Legally, the state of emergency can only involve requests for compliance. Violators face no penalties. There are few incentives to close shops."
Gregmal Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 Snopes looking into the anti-lockdown protests: https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/05/20/michigan-lockdown-protesters/ Ha! Ive been waiting for them to try to bridge this. The playbook is all too obvious by now. Protestors = white supremist Trump supporters. Thats where they'll take this. Just wait. No amount of evidence would convince tribal magical thinkers like you, so it's moot. These guys can come out and say that this is who they are and why they do what they do and you wouldn't believe it if it was inconvenient to you. Obviously this doesn't mean that everybody who protests or agrees with the protests knows about everything or is part of the same clique, but it's still interesting to look at the leadership of these groups and see who organized things, right? Is this a joke? I have criticized Trump plenty and am easily one of the more balanced here with regard to criticism and blame. What % of your postings are balanced? What about ERICOPOLY's? Up until you guys got some pushback it was basically just dozens of pages of you posting Trump bashing Twitter links and Eric and a few others following on with more complaining... But yea, continuously revert to the Obama playbook of identity politics. The "tribal thinkers" and whatnot. The playbook is old. It was not just yesterday where some where whining about phantom "personal attacks" but now? Oh look here... You guys make it too easy.
cubsfan Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 Florida Governor goes out of his way to keep sick CV elderly OUT OF NURSING HOMES, while idiot Governor Cuomo jams the INFECTED ELDERLY INTO NURSING HOMES - causing thousands of deaths.. Yet, the Fake News and Liberals fawn over Cuomo, while they crucify DeSantis. https://www.dailywire.com/news/ny-health-dept-admits-to-undercounting-nursing-home-deaths-as-cuomo-scandal-worsens Democrat-controlled New York has reportedly admitted to knowingly undercounting the number of deaths suffered in nursing homes from the coronavirus after the facilities were devastated by Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo’s policy that forced them to take patients who were infected with the virus. Good to see you guys still fawning over Cuomo!
Gregmal Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 Florida Governor goes out of his way to keep sick CV elderly OUT OF NURSING HOMES, while idiot Governor Cuomo jams the INFECTED ELDERLY INTO NURSING HOMES - causing thousands of deaths.. Yet, the Fake News and Liberals fawn over Cuomo, while they crucify DeSantis. https://www.dailywire.com/news/ny-health-dept-admits-to-undercounting-nursing-home-deaths-as-cuomo-scandal-worsens Democrat-controlled New York has reportedly admitted to knowingly undercounting the number of deaths suffered in nursing homes from the coronavirus after the facilities were devastated by Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo’s policy that forced them to take patients who were infected with the virus. Good to see you guys still fawning over Cuomo! Remember "President Cuomo"...aint gonna have any constituents left if he keeps killing them.
Liberty Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.htm "Vitamin D can't be metabolized without sufficient magnesium levels, meaning Vitamin D remains stored and inactive for as many as 50 percent of Americans." Something to keep in mind related to the previous vitamin D stuff I posted...
ERICOPOLY Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 the Obama playbook of identity politics. Are you sore that he spoke out against racists? It never bothered me.
patience_and_focus Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-opinion-coronavirus-europe-lockdown-excess-deaths-recession/ "But, as our next chart shows, there’s little correlation between the severity of a nation’s restrictions and whether it managed to curb excess fatalities — a measure that looks at the overall number of deaths compared with normal trends." This is what I call crappy "data analysis". This person who wrote this bloomberg article will fail any data analysis 101 course. Here are just a couple of the many issues - (a) The article says - "But, as our next chart shows, there’s little correlation between the severity of a nation’s restrictions and whether it managed to curb excess fatalities — a measure that looks at the overall number of deaths compared with normal trends." Where the hell is correlation coefficient value? And the p-value? And the chart is NOT an X versus Y plot of stringency score versus deaths. The stringency score used for correlation was at what time (since stringency concept changes over time)? Is the correlation a time series auto-correlation or point correlation? A claim is made in the above sentence about "little correlation", but no numbers to back it up. (b) Here the article conveniently provides an X vs Y plot for severity of restrictions score vs economic activity and shows a trend line. Where the hell is correlation coefficient value? And the p-value? Just looking at that graph I can tell you that correlation for this will be crappy as well (both coefficient and p-value). The trend line is just smoke and mirrors. This is obfuscation 101 when someone posts a trend line but no numbers associated. Then of-course, there are numerous question like why certain countries in Europe were left out in the charts for this article etc. It requires a good journal paper level rigor, not this mess of an article. Seems to me that author had a theory in mind and simply massaged/ scrubbed the original source data to prove a point. The original data is here - https://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/research/research-projects/coronavirus-government-response-tracker
Liberty Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 Is this a joke? I have criticized Trump plenty and am easily one of the more balanced here with regard to criticism and blame. What % of your postings are balanced? What about ERICOPOLY's? Up until you guys got some pushback it was basically just dozens of pages of you posting Trump bashing Twitter links and Eric and a few others following on with more complaining... But yea, continuously revert to the Obama playbook of identity politics. The "tribal thinkers" and whatnot. The playbook is old. It was not just yesterday where some where whining about phantom "personal attacks" but now? Oh look here... You guys make it too easy. Balanced and pushbacks have nothing to do with it. Things are either true and supported by evidence, or false and not supported by evidence. They make logical sense, or they don't. Reality isn't up to a vote or a committee and not every side is automatically equally to blame for everything all the time, not all scandals are equally bad, etc. If Trump's a corrupt narcissistic sociopath who's not very sharp and way over his head, the "balanced" thing to do is point it out, not to go 'well, he's half good and half bad like everybody else".
Liberty Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 the Obama playbook of identity politics. Are you sore that he spoke out against racists? It never bothered me. Trump is WAY WAY WAY more playing identity politics than Obama ever did, but somehow it doesn't seem to bother these guys. I wonder why?
Gregmal Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 Is this a joke? I have criticized Trump plenty and am easily one of the more balanced here with regard to criticism and blame. What % of your postings are balanced? What about ERICOPOLY's? Up until you guys got some pushback it was basically just dozens of pages of you posting Trump bashing Twitter links and Eric and a few others following on with more complaining... But yea, continuously revert to the Obama playbook of identity politics. The "tribal thinkers" and whatnot. The playbook is old. It was not just yesterday where some where whining about phantom "personal attacks" but now? Oh look here... You guys make it too easy. Balanced and pushbacks have nothing to do with it. Things are either true and supported by evidence, or false and not supported by evidence. They make logical sense, or they don't. Reality isn't up to a vote or a committee and not every side is automatically equally to blame for everything all the time, not all scandals are equally bad, etc. If Trump's a corrupt narcissistic sociopath who's not very sharp and way over his head, the "balanced" thing to do is point it out, not to go 'well, he's half good and half bad like everybody else". Whether we agree on this or not, this is an opinion. Making it your personal duty to gather every possible piece of information or some random jerk offs opinion which supports something that YOU believe, and scream it from the mountaintops is only indicative of a bias. Pretty easy exercise to determine a bias or agenda. Take a subject. Then find out how a company/person is covering it. Break down coverage into 2 categories. Opinion and Fact. Then 3 sub categories. Positive, Neutral, Negative. From there you will over time find a bias. Where do your Trump related postings fall?
Peregrine Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 I hate Trump in that intentionally or unintentionally he has politicized everything. Even discourse on the coronavirus has devolved along strict partisan lines. Makes discussing policy with a balanced and objective mindset basically impossible. If you even question the rationale about the lockdowns, you're immediately called a Trump-lover by many on the left - even if you yourself identify more with the left.
JSArbitrage Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/cdc-coronavirus-mainly-spreads-through-persontoperson-contact-and-does-not-spread-easily-on-contaminated-surfaces-153317029.html CDC: Coronavirus mainly spreads through person-to-person contact and 'does not spread easily' on contaminated surfaces “Based on the epidemiology, we know that the main way this virus is infecting people is from direct contact with other infected people,” Adalja says. “Contaminated surfaces play some role, but it’s likely much smaller.” It also makes sense, too, he says: “This is a respiratory virus, and respiratory viruses largely spread through breathing in infected respiratory droplets.” The person to person contact can be minimized by not hugging, kissing, hand shaking, etc. The respiratory droplets breathing can be reduced by masks, giving safe distance and just being outside. All these can be done without shutting people in their homes. In Japan, the law wont let the government mandate shelter in place. So the government there had to request people to follow guidelines, and shut down schools. But still they could not mandate kids not to play outside. People who could afford to shut their shops did. People who couldnt afford to shut down ran their businesses with safeguards. That is a much better way to treat your citizens. But above two reasons given in the article for transmission, person-person contact, droplets can be controlled while working. https://time.com/5830612/japan-coronavirus-golden-week/ Why Many Japanese People Are Ignoring Their Government’s Pleas to Stay Home During a Major Holiday Break "Legally, the state of emergency can only involve requests for compliance. Violators face no penalties. There are few incentives to close shops." You actually think us Americans were mistreated? Was not sitting in restaurants and going to large gatherings too much to bear? The entitlement I've seen from my American brethren is shocking. Not willing to give up the smallest inconveniences to prevent mass death. More deaths in 2 months than the entire Vietnam War (and closing in on WWI) but wasn't allowed to sit at an AMC and eat popcorn. My belief in my fellow Americans has been severely damaged in this order. This is not the country that put a man on the moon anymore.
ERICOPOLY Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 the Obama playbook of identity politics. Are you sore that he spoke out against racists? It never bothered me. Trump is WAY WAY WAY more playing identity politics than Obama ever did, but somehow it doesn't seem to bother these guys. I wonder why? Gregmal repeatedly says that Obama created identity politics, but the Civil Rights movement and Feminists movements? Never heard of them. Remember Gregmal said he doesn't want a Trans person using the bathroom his daughter uses. Obama struck a nerve with GregMal, how dare Obama call him out for intolerance? That's what he is all about.
cwericb Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 Today marked a new record high of COVID-19 cases reported in a day worldwide.
Gregmal Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 I guess my game is "bad is bad". That's not it, but you're about to reveal what your game is. Not "when my guy does it we ignore it, when the Republican does it we foam at the mouth". Dont worry, you're winning that one. You voted for a guy who championed the game of "you disagree with me because you're racist" and now bitch and moan about the guy who says all journalists are lying scum.... and worse, you cant even see the common element. And there it is, that's your game. You make personal attacks instead of debate points. Smear. A day later.... the Obama playbook of identity politics. Are you sore that he spoke out against racists? It never bothered me. Trump is WAY WAY WAY more playing identity politics than Obama ever did, but somehow it doesn't seem to bother these guys. I wonder why? Gregmal repeatedly says that Obama created identity politics, but the Civil Rights movement and Feminists movements? Never heard of them. Remember Gregmal said he doesn't want a Trans person using the bathroom his daughter uses. Obama struck a nerve with GregMal, how dare Obama call him out for intolerance? That's what he is all about. LOL. Ideologically so hypocritical and warped, one day it s baselessly "your game is personal insults" and then the next its....wait for it... lob personal insults. This is the left. Like the previous poster said, I hate Trump in that intentionally or unintentionally he has politicized everything. Even discourse on the coronavirus has devolved along strict partisan lines. Makes discussing policy with a balanced and objective mindset basically impossible. If you even question the rationale about the lockdowns, you're immediately called a Trump-lover by many on the left - even if you yourself identify more with the left.
rb Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 You actually think us Americans were mistreated? Was not sitting in restaurants and going to large gatherings too much to bear? The entitlement I've seen from my American brethren is shocking. Not willing to give up the smallest inconveniences to prevent mass death. More deaths in 2 months than the entire Vietnam War (and closing in on WWI) but wasn't allowed to sit at an AMC and eat popcorn. My belief in my fellow Americans has been severely damaged in this order. This is not the country that put a man on the moon anymore. I was actually thinking about this for a while. Something to do with lack of knowledge of adversity in recent generations. I don't mean Millennials, I mean baby boom and after. Before you used to have a lot of adversity. So you were ready for it and ready to deal with it. Your children will die on a sort of regular basis - vaccines changed that (now we have anti- vaxers). Wars would happen with some frequency. Those were real wars. If you were an able bodied man you had a fair to decent chance you would go to war. Would sit in some shithole and had a good chance something bad would happen to you - bullet in the ass or worse. Now when you have a war is more theoretical "those other guys" will fight it and even them will do pretty well through it. But zero chance something bad will happen to you. The Great Depression is an interesting name. That was just the great one. There were other depressions before it not that far behind. When's the last time we had a depression? Now having to wear a mask while you shop at Costco has become a great adversity. Geez! We've become a bunch of fat, spoiled babies because a bunch of smart people worked really hard to make things easy and safe for us. Then the fat spoiled babies throw poop at the smart people because that's all they know how to do. Progress!
meiroy Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 You guys should listen to this: https://samharris.org/podcasts/201-may-1-2020/ Sam Harris, A Conversation with Yuval Noah Harari podcast.
cwericb Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 During WWII there were line ups at the recruiting offices. When the war with Iraq started there were some members of the reserve forces who were crying to get out, “We want out, we never thought we would have to actually go and fight”
cubsfan Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 the Obama playbook of identity politics. Are you sore that he spoke out against racists? It never bothered me. Trump is WAY WAY WAY more playing identity politics than Obama ever did, but somehow it doesn't seem to bother these guys. I wonder why? Of course, that is total bullshit. The whole Democratic Playbook and Agenda is identity politics. It's about victimization. Everybody is a victim that needs their group to be compensated or righted. Government is the only way to right those historical wrongs. Government will fix everything for these groups that have been disadvantage. The Democrats do NOT believe in meritocracy - they believe in racial quotas and affirmative action based on sex. Everyone becomes a "protected" class or group. Obama took that bullshit to a whole new level. Who's pushing slave reparations and nonsense like that? The Democratic playbook does not allow for hiring the "best" people or most qualified, but hiring based on "quotas" and total nonsense. Look at the corner these idiots painted themselves into with their own Presidential Primaries. They are left with 2 old white guys - Biden and Sanders. And they have a shit fit since their is no minority group or female representing them - now they are trying to jam a black female (Stacy Abrams) or Kamala Harris into the campaign since they look like idiots. Identity Politics drives ALL THEIR DECISIONS. Now they get to live with the consequences. It worked GREAT for Obama - but is a DISASTER for the future of PARTY. These guys never learn!
cwericb Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 "The Democratic playbook does not allow for hiring the "best" people or most qualified, but hiring based on "quotas" and total nonsense." As opposed to Trump hiring his family and buddies?
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