netnet Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 There is a longish thread on the pros and cons of Brexit, but I did not see anything addressing more market or stock specific discussions. This is one of those unpredictable, but widely anticipated events. With an exit, the English stocks particularly those that need access to Europe will probably drop sharply. My thinking is to have a watchlist of those companies that are not dependent on European exports from the UK that may fall in sympathy. (Of course there is a wild card that this could be turn into a Lehman type of moment, I doubt it, but it is of course a possibility. As is a surge of the FTSE.) London real estate looks particularly vulnerable. Specific companies to keep in mind: Lancashire (LRE.L) and Goodwin, with some EU exposure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doughishere Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Its been killing my sex life...... https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/1256951/fear-of-brexit-is-stopping-couples-having-children-until-after-eu-referendum/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpRaider Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Nice. I've got a limit order in for some IEUR (with a large portion of the index is devoted to the UK ~ 30%) at Fido, where that is a NTF option and will be looking for dislocations real time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cherzeca Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 i am not sure i understand the reasons for the dire implications of brexit. seems like some fear it will be a first step to a break up of the EU. is that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkhet Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 There is an idea that brexit will be GDP negative for the U.K., and therefore, it will be bad for the world economy. Also, if they leave, others might try to leave, and it will be GDP negative for them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballinvarosig Investors Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 There is a longish thread on the pros and cons of Brexit, but I did not see anything addressing more market or stock specific discussions. This is one of those unpredictable, but widely anticipated events. With an exit, the English stocks particularly those that need access to Europe will probably drop sharply. My thinking is to have a watchlist of those companies that are not dependent on European exports from the UK that may fall in sympathy. (Of course there is a wild card that this could be turn into a Lehman type of moment, I doubt it, but it is of course a possibility. As is a surge of the FTSE.) London real estate looks particularly vulnerable. Specific companies to keep in mind: Lancashire (LRE.L) and Goodwin, with some EU exposure though. I think the rise/gains in the stock price will be baked in before the result is announced. Today for example, the gap between the Remain/Leave sides with bookmakers is the narrowest it has ever been in the entire campaign - FTSE stocks have already tanked in the last two days on that news. The market is already pricing the Brexit in. Companies like Goodwin which don't have a heavy exposure to the UK won't go down too much regardless of what happens. On the other hand - financials and insurers are already being absolutely clobbered and are looking very interesting. Aviva is an insurer I thought I missed the boat on a few months back at £4 - the market is now giving me a second bite which I am taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpRaider Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 For the buying if to crash: LRE.L DEO UL AGK.l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Osborn Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Here is Soros's world survey which covers the topic: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/02/11/europe-verge-collapse-interview/ His general thesis seems to be that the European banking system was gravely weakened by insufficiently timely/ concerted central banking action by the Germans particularly, and this has set the stage for various forces to split the EU, such as countries like Greece and Britain pulling out. So if the response is large it will be more about EU fears vs Britain fears specifically. The immediate economic impact on Britain specifically is considered to be minor: https://woodfordfunds.com/economic-impact-brexit-report/ The problem, as we saw with Greece, is that although these events are not individually earthshaking they take place in a dual stimulative/ deleveraging environment. The US/ EU markets are looking for a reason to crack, and if that happens to align with Brexit then that's what folks will blame it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doughishere Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 The US/ EU markets are looking for a reason to crack, and if that happens to align with Brexit then that's what folks will blame it on. I think there is a bit of truth this, the problem is psychological. There no confidence in anything anymore? China, no. Europe, was there ever. Oil, look at a chart. Real Estate/Housing, look at where the GSEs are. Ive heard 3-4 guys say we are heading for Japan (Munger, Summners, Marks), Pick a US State... its in budget crisis....Simple things is you cant count on the old things any more and when you do that you stop making out lays of capital and start.....and thats just the financial side of things. Forget the rest of the worries that have always existed in a similar form or another. From what gather and the musings online and such....I dont know why Yellen keeps doing the same shit quarter in and quarter out....pull your reliever he got you out of the jam already. The Brexit thing by itself seems trivial....compounded with the rest its no wonder investors flee to bonds and bond like investments......I have no proof but I suspect that never normalizing policy(in any country) after risk of true collapse receded harmed confidence a great deal....Yellen is fighting the last war. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-15/deutsche-bank-if-one-wanted-simple-indicator-broken-financial-system-then-it That chart makes teh Third Reich look like a better investment enviornment than Germany today....just saying. Edit: assuming bond yeads are and indicator investor sentiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prevalou Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 The US/ EU markets are looking for a reason to crack, and if that happens to align with Brexit then that's what folks will blame it on. I think there is a bit of truth this, the problem is psychological. There no confidence in anything anymore? China, no. Europe, was there ever. Oil, look at a chart. Real Estate/Housing, look at where the GSEs are. Ive heard 3-4 guys say we are heading for Japan (Munger, Summners, Marks), Pick a US State... its in budget crisis....Simple things is you cant count on the old things any more and when you do that you stop making out lays of capital and start.....and thats just the financial side of things. Forget the rest of the worries that have always existed in a similar form or another. From what gather and the musings online and such....I dont know why Yellen keeps doing the same shit quarter in and quarter out....pull your reliever he got you out of the jam already. The Brexit thing by itself seems trivial....compounded with the rest its no wonder investors flee to bonds and bond like investments......I have no proof but I suspect that never normalizing policy(in any country) after risk of true collapse receded harmed confidence a great deal....Yellen is fighting the last war. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-15/deutsche-bank-if-one-wanted-simple-indicator-broken-financial-system-then-it That chart makes teh Third Reich look like a better investment enviornment than Germany today....just saying. Edit: assuming bond yeads are and indicator investor sentiment and during these hard times, Buffett accumulates PSX and maybe other investments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doughishere Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 The US/ EU markets are looking for a reason to crack, and if that happens to align with Brexit then that's what folks will blame it on. I think there is a bit of truth this, the problem is psychological. There no confidence in anything anymore? China, no. Europe, was there ever. Oil, look at a chart. Real Estate/Housing, look at where the GSEs are. Ive heard 3-4 guys say we are heading for Japan (Munger, Summners, Marks), Pick a US State... its in budget crisis....Simple things is you cant count on the old things any more and when you do that you stop making out lays of capital and start.....and thats just the financial side of things. Forget the rest of the worries that have always existed in a similar form or another. From what gather and the musings online and such....I dont know why Yellen keeps doing the same shit quarter in and quarter out....pull your reliever he got you out of the jam already. The Brexit thing by itself seems trivial....compounded with the rest its no wonder investors flee to bonds and bond like investments......I have no proof but I suspect that never normalizing policy(in any country) after risk of true collapse receded harmed confidence a great deal....Yellen is fighting the last war. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-15/deutsche-bank-if-one-wanted-simple-indicator-broken-financial-system-then-it That chart makes teh Third Reich look like a better investment enviornment than Germany today....just saying. Edit: assuming bond yeads are and indicator investor sentiment and during these hard times, Buffett accumulates PSX and maybe other investments... You smell that? Thats the smell of opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 and during these hard times, Buffett accumulates PSX and maybe other investments... Yes but because Buffett is computer illiterate he can't get to zerohedge so obviously he has no idea what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Buy what's cheap and sell what's expensive. EM is particularly cheap. Europe is relatively cheap. The U.S. is incredibly expensive. Don't worry about where/what the crisis will be - worry about the price you paid going into the crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doughishere Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Buy what's cheap and sell what's expensive. EM is particularly cheap. Europe is relatively cheap. The U.S. is incredibly expensive. Don't worry about where/what the crisis will be - worry about the price you paid going into the crisis. Good things happen to those that wait Napier seems to think that Yellen is keeping rates low for the rest of the world. Good interview, I admit it i have a small crush on Napiers ideas at the moment. Part 1 - Part 2 - Managing Spillovers—Striking the Right Balance of Domestic Objectives and External Stability By Christine Lagarde http://www.imf.org/external/np/speeches/2016/061616.htm?hootPostID=b6d1297da8b61cbf7dc92ff01e34298b Tough job for the central bankers...i dont envy the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Buy what's cheap and sell what's expensive. EM is particularly cheap. Europe is relatively cheap. The U.S. is incredibly expensive. Don't worry about where/what the crisis will be - worry about the price you paid going into the crisis. +1 - I can't agree more. This Brexit mess is simply put just a buying opportunity [like "the Greek tradegy" last year, Chineese "crisis" last year , and so on] if you think really carefully about what you are buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BargainValueHunter Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Volatility ETN/ETP trading volume exploding as the world positions for the Brexit decision: http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2016/06/17/vix-etf-trading-goes-bananas/ On Friday, the VelocityShares Daily 2x VIX Short-Term ETN (TVIX) traded more shares than any stock on the S&P 500, trading 98.6 million shares — fully 10 million more than Bank of America (BAC). Meanwhile, the iPath S&P 500 VIX Short-Term Futures exchange-traded note (VXX) traded 75.8 million times — third of all ETPs — while the ProShares Ultra VIX Short-Term Futures (UVXY) turned over 55.4 million times, sixth among all ETPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VersaillesinNY Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 The Brexit crash will make all of you poorer – be warned George Soros op-ed https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/20/brexit-crash-pound-living-standards-george-soros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doughishere Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 The Brexit crash will make all of you poorer – be warned George Soros op-ed https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/20/brexit-crash-pound-living-standards-george-soros Damn, thats cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 The Brexit crash will make all of you poorer – be warned George Soros op-ed https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/20/brexit-crash-pound-living-standards-george-soros John Oliver's piece is also pretty strongly against: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachtwoord Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 The Brexit crash will make all of you poorer – be warned George Soros op-ed https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/20/brexit-crash-pound-living-standards-george-soros Damn, thats cold. Don't ever trust Soros. In fact, don't turn your back if you don't want a knife poking out of it minutes later. Who's next: JPMorgan and the Rothschilds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I am thinking of buying a relatively long term (Jan 2017) put spread to protect my portfolio ahead of this event and to avoid paying too much for volatility. The SPY seems to be best based on this: Seems to me that we will get a relief rally if Brexit does not pass and a sharp selloff if it does or common thinking. However, Yellen's discussion around tightening will come back right away if it does not pass with a July rate hike and related fear ahead of time should bail my position. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballinvarosig Investors Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I am thinking of buying a relatively long term (Jan 2017) put spread to protect my portfolio ahead of this event and to avoid paying too much for volatility. The SPY seems to be best based on this: Seems to me that we will get a relief rally if Brexit does not pass and a sharp selloff if it does or common thinking. However, Yellen's discussion around tightening will come back right away if it does not pass with a July rate hike and related fear ahead of time should bail my position. What do you guys think? The relief rally is already here. The insurer I started buying on Thursday is up 10% already. One of the British banks I bought is up 15%. Sterling strengthened significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
writser Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 My ramblings (the macro gurus here will undoubtedly point out how stupid I am). 1. Despite all the experts and polls predicting "a close race" a Brexit currently pays out 4 times at Betfair on significant volume. I trust the market rather than the pundits and am not that worried about a Brexit as others. 2. Even if the UK is to leave the EU things will probably not change that much. Yes, there will be panic in the short run but the actual leaving will probably take years (decades) and lobbyists, diplomats and bureaucrats probably make sure that the transition is as small and as smooth as possible. I am skeptical about the long-term influence of the outcome of the vote on the S&P 500. My personal belief is that it would be negligible in the long run. 3. The market is way too focused on the 'Brexit' vote - it is the event of the year. Buying insurance in whatever form is not a genius idea: it is the consensus trade so you probably pay too much. So I do nothing special. I made sure I have a little margin / cash in case the market goes crazy on friday (as I always have). I should probably make a small watchlist with UK stocks I'd like to buy in case of a crash but so far I have been to lazy to do so. If I had to do anything I'd go long a Brexit on Betfair but I already put all my money there on Trump becoming president. I basically agree with WEB on Brexit: "It wouldn’t change anything I did. I wouldn’t sell the farm I own. I wouldn’t sell the real estate I own. I wouldn’t sell my house. I wouldn’t buy a different kind of car. And I certainly wouldn’t change my investment in businesses. But -- I hope they don’t do it.". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racemize Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'm really confused why the polls and the better's market are so far apart. What is going on with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachtwoord Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'm really confused why the polls and the better's market are so far apart. What is going on with that? Apparently manipulating the better's market can be done for 25k http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-20/did-%C2%A325000-bet-remain-send-trillions-assets-soaring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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