If American - which presidential candidate will you vote for?

[Palantir]

http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/16/news/economy/hillary-bill-clinton-economic-job-growth/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom

 

Why not a third term for Obama while we are at it?

 

And regarding some WWIII with Trump, who is pushing Chinese buttons so hard in the South China Sea right now?

 

And I have never seen Russian planes harassing U.S. navy vessels like we have seen in recent times. Never!

 

Sometimes I wonder if Obama is not trying to make things so bad so that a state of emergency is declared in the Fall and that no U.S. election can be held. This way he could do his third term a la Roosevelt. Is that not his hero by the way?

 

Cardboard

 

You need to catch up on history if you don't think China and Russia have behaved like this before. And if you mean the bolded, you are one crazy mofo.

 

I would love a third Obama term. The American people should thank God that they were lucky enough to have Obama as their president and be building statues of him everywhere. If they can fund it by raising taxes, even better!

 

YES!  Better yet I think we should enslave a bunch of israelites to build a giant pyramid, the largest the world has ever known, to serve as his final resting place for when he passes on to take his place next to Osiris someday.  All hail the mighty Obama, drone killer of many children, he who calls forth death from the skies!

 

See! Somebody gets it! That said I thought Obama was a supporter of Isis, not Osiris? Whatever, it's all the same, damn ancient Egyptians hated us for our freedoms!

[TwoCitiesCapital]

1) Who a president sleeps with has no bearing on their ability to be president or the decisions they make as president. Bill wasn't a good/bad president because of his actions with Monica Lewisnky. Bill was a bad president because he lied under oath about it which is a Federal crime punishable by up to 5 years in prison.

 

Of course, if you're a felon in this country, you can't vote - but you can remain president with nearly 0 consequences and still be a "respected" statesman afterwards and have the opportunity to hold a high-gov't office again. Go figure.

 

2) Obama has been a likable president. I don't think he's been "great" by any means. His foreign policy was largely an extension of the same mistakes Bush made: invading sovereign countries, getting involved in their civil wars, arming and funding rebels that later become our enemies, and drone-bombing weddings and hospitals wondering why we just can't seem to win over the hearts of the citizens in the area... Further, the wars and the domestic spying on citizens have been largely unconstitutional, but nobody seems to care - least of all the president who swore to uphold it. The most "transparent" administration has been largely opaque while being pretty hard on whistle blowers like Edward Snowden but pretty easy on information leaking Generals and Secretaries of State - one of which is running for the highest position in the "free" world. Lastly, despite the robust recovery he keeps talking about it, it's been the slowest post-WWII recovery despite the staggering amounts of deficit spending and stimulus used to achieve which is going to be paid back by future generations who received 0 benefit in return for being born into debt.

 

So yea, Obama is likable and has been a better "face" of the country than was Bush. I imagine I wouldn't mind shooting a few hoops with the dude or a round of golf. But as a president, I'd say he's done a pretty poor job.

[Palantir]

1) Who a president sleeps with has no bearing on their ability to be president or the decisions they make as president. Bill wasn't a good/bad president because of his actions with Monica Lewisnky. Bill was a bad president because he lied under oath about it which is a Federal crime punishable by up to 5 years in prison.

 

Actually, perjury is not a serious crime and is rarely prosecuted. Plus, given the topic he was lying about, should we as citizens really care? Personally, I think whether a President is good or bad is decided by his use of policy to achieve the American public's interest, and only that.

[TwoCitiesCapital]

1) Who a president sleeps with has no bearing on their ability to be president or the decisions they make as president. Bill wasn't a good/bad president because of his actions with Monica Lewisnky. Bill was a bad president because he lied under oath about it which is a Federal crime punishable by up to 5 years in prison.

 

Actually, perjury is not a serious crime and is rarely prosecuted. Plus, given the topic he was lying about, should we as citizens really care? Personally, I think whether a President is good or bad is decided by his use of policy to achieve the American public's interest, and only that.

 

I could care less of how "serious" the crime is deemed. Lying in front of  Federal Court is a federal crime. If someone had pursued that and convicted him, he'd be a felon and wouldn't even be allowed to vote. Of course, you see this dynamic with white collar crimes all of the time. Breaking laws only matters if you're poor - if you're rich and powerful (say a President, a General, or a Secretary of State), you can break them with near-impunity.

 

Secondly, the topic that he lied about doesn't change the fact that he lied to a Federal court AND the American people. The topic doesn't really matter - if you're President and lying to courts and to the American people, you're not fit to be President. Period. The topic of the lie doesn't change the severity of having lied to 330M people under oath.

 

But yes, in general, I would agree that President's should be judged on their policies and not their personal lives. Bill Clinton's policy of lying to the American people and to the Federal courts is where my problem lies. I'd have a lot more respect for him had he just said "yea, we did it" and then gave a thumbs up then the route he took.

[Palantir]

The topic of the lie does impact his legacy as president. He was not convicted of this federal crime because the Senate either didn't believe enough evidence existed or didn't believe the charges were serious enough. Furthermore, it is not even all that clear that he lied. The "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" comment was not made under oath. Under oath, he denied having a current relationship, which was correct. This is why it is significant that he was not convicted of the crime, and is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

 

Even if he lied, why should 330M Americans care that he lied about his extramarital activities? Why is that significant enough to overshadow his entire presidency?

[DTEJD1997]

The topic of the lie does impact his legacy as president. He was not convicted of this federal crime because the Senate either didn't believe enough evidence existed or didn't believe the charges were serious enough. Furthermore, it is not even all that clear that he lied. The "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" comment was not made under oath. Even he lied, but why should 330M Americans care that he lied about his extramarital activities? Why is that significant enough to overshadow his entire presidency?

 

A man that is willing to cheat on his wife might be willing to do other things...A man that is willing to lie to 330mm Americans might be willing to do other things to.

 

You seriously don't think Billy lying about what was going on in the Oval Office under oath was a serious matter?

 

If push comes to shove, you don't think Bill would lie about other more important issues?

 

He & Hillary have been involved in one shady, crooked, unethical deal after another, after another, after another.  If she gets elected, it is simply going to continue.  She & Billy need to be in the dustbin of history.

[rkbabang]

The topic of the lie does impact his legacy as president. He was not convicted of this federal crime because the Senate either didn't believe enough evidence existed or didn't believe the charges were serious enough. Furthermore, it is not even all that clear that he lied. The "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" comment was not made under oath. Even he lied, but why should 330M Americans care that he lied about his extramarital activities? Why is that significant enough to overshadow his entire presidency?

 

A man that is willing to cheat on his wife might be willing to do other things...A man that is willing to lie to 330mm Americans might be willing to do other things to.

 

You seriously don't think Billy lying about what was going on in the Oval Office under oath was a serious matter?

 

If push comes to shove, you don't think Bill would lie about other more important issues?

 

He & Hillary have been involved in one shady, crooked, unethical deal after another, after another, after another.  If she gets elected, it is simply going to continue.  She & Billy need to be in the dustbin of history.

 

So you're theory is that if you only elect the right people your government will stop lying to you?  I wouldn't hold my breath.  Of course the Clinton's are liars. If they weren't crooked liars and thieves of the highest order they would be doing something honest for a living. 

 

[rb]

The topic of the lie does impact his legacy as president. He was not convicted of this federal crime because the Senate either didn't believe enough evidence existed or didn't believe the charges were serious enough. Furthermore, it is not even all that clear that he lied. The "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" comment was not made under oath. Even he lied, but why should 330M Americans care that he lied about his extramarital activities? Why is that significant enough to overshadow his entire presidency?

 

A man that is willing to cheat on his wife might be willing to do other things...A man that is willing to lie to 330mm Americans might be willing to do other things to.

 

You seriously don't think Billy lying about what was going on in the Oval Office under oath was a serious matter?

 

If push comes to shove, you don't think Bill would lie about other more important issues?

 

He & Hillary have been involved in one shady, crooked, unethical deal after another, after another, after another.  If she gets elected, it is simply going to continue.  She & Billy need to be in the dustbin of history.

It's nice that's you're there on the wall beating the drum about Bill getting laid and lying to the American people about it, and how horrible that was. Only the thing is that the American people actually decided that they really didn't care that Bill got laid or that he lied to them about it. During the impeachment trial Bill's approval ratings reached a high of 73%. I don't think that the American people can yell "We Don't Care!" louder than that. During the election at the end of his second term Bill's approval rating was 63%.

 

Bush 2 was a good boy. Didn't cheat on his wife and didn't get blowies in the oval. This however didn't really make the people feel better about him going into all those wars and blowing up the middle east. Oh, speaking about lying to the American people that WMD thingy was a real whopper. Turns out that the American people did care about that one. Bush 2's average approval for his second term was 37%. During the election at the end of his second term his approval was 28%.

 

So yea you can dig up and fling old dirt as much as you want. The reality is that people really didn't care about Bill's affairs or what he said about them. But the people were probably ready to pay for hookers so that Bush 2 would get laid constantly and just wouldn't show up for work.

[Cardboard]

Regarding history, you can't even see current news around you Palantir.

 

I know now why Trump has a Eastern European wife. These people have a brain and a memory.

 

These people were also forced to put on display a bunch of statues of Lenin or another Obama hero. As soon as they had the chance, they destroyed all of that and embraced freedom and capitalism.

 

After 20 short years, they are the pearl of Europe with solid growth and low unemployment or a striking difference from their Western counterparts. The EU is trying to impose various laws and other liberal plans on them and they are rightfully pushing back.

 

There is another country which embraced fully socialism or the ideal of Bernie Sanders and Obama: Venezuela. In 10 short years, people are dying, shops are empty, no electricity is available, no food, nothing. Civil war is likely next.

 

America is a great country because it has chosen freedom over domination by a few who would dictate them how they should live. It could become greater or like it was in the 90's if it reverses that trend toward socialism.

 

Regarding the elite Democrats who claim that they are doing this to help the people. To them I say lie and hypocrisy. Their true reason is to buy peace from the poor so that they can continue enjoying their upper class lifestyle: actors, tort lawyers, union leaders. Millions are still on food stamps and barely making it despite 8 years of their so called empathy. If they truly wanted to help the poor, they would stop enslaving them with small gifts and teach them how they got to the upper echelon themselves.

 

While I am not opposed at all to more available healthcare and education, the way it is presented and used as a tool to vote for them by the Democrats is disgusting.

 

And by the way, if you believe that free education is the thing to have, then look no further than France. Free does not mean that it will be put to good use. When one has to pay a little then better choices are made.

 

Cardboard

[rb]

Regarding history, you can't even see current news around you Palantir.

 

I know now why Trump has a Eastern European wife. These people have a brain and a memory.

 

These people were also forced to put on display a bunch of statues of Lenin or another Obama hero. As soon as they had the chance, they destroyed all of that and embraced freedom and capitalism.

 

After 20 short years, they are the pearl of Europe with solid growth and low unemployment or a striking difference from their Western counterparts. The EU is trying to impose various laws and other liberal plans on them and they are rightfully pushing back.

 

There is another country which embraced fully socialism or the ideal of Bernie Sanders and Obama: Venezuela. In 10 short years, people are dying, shops are empty, no electricity is available, no food, nothing. Civil war is likely next.

 

America is a great country because it has chosen freedom over domination by a few who would dictate them how they should live. It could become greater or like it was in the 90's if it reverses that trend toward socialism.

 

Regarding the elite Democrats who claim that they are doing this to help the people. To them I say lie and hypocrisy. Their true reason is to buy peace from the poor so that they can continue enjoying their upper class lifestyle: actors, tort lawyers, union leaders. Millions are still on food stamps and barely making it despite 8 years of their so called empathy. If they truly wanted to help the poor, they would stop enslaving them with small gifts and teach them how they got to the upper echelon themselves.

 

While I am not opposed at all to more available healthcare and education, the way it is presented and used as a tool to vote for them by the Democrats is disgusting.

 

And by the way, if you believe that free education is the thing to have, then look no further than France. Free does not mean that it will be put to good use. When one has to pay a little then better choices are made.

 

Cardboard

Nice straw man you got there Cardboard. Venezuela! Quick, everyone run and hide! As far as I know the Bernie talks more about US becoming more like Denmark. Let's look at that socialism ravaged country: 2015 GDP growth=1.6%, 2015 GDP per capita=$45,800, 2014 Average hours worked per employee=1,436, unemployment rate 4.7%, happiness index rank=1. Feel the devastation.

 

As for Eastern Europe being the pearl of Europe? I don't know what you're smoking but I sure want some.

 

Leaving Russia aside because that's another bag of fleas, the largest countries in Eastern Europe are Ukraine, Poland, and Romania. Stats:

2015 GDP per Capita: Ukraine $8,000, Poland $26,400, Romania $22,100

2015 GDP growth Rate: Ukraine -10.5%, Poland 3.5%, Romania 3.7%

2015 Unemployment Rate: Ukraine 9.5%, Poland 10.6%, Romania 6.7%

The unemployment numbers also have a strong downward bias because these countries have large agrarian populations that cannot be counted as unemployed but mostly conduct subsistence farming and tend to live in abject poverty. % of labour force employed in farming: Ukraine 25%, Poland 22%, Romania 30%.

 

That honestly doesn't look like anybody's pearl. Also i think that Eastern Europe's GDP growth rates were probably the last thing on Trump's mind when he was thinking about getting a new wife.

 

 

 

[Jurgis]

I'm gonna regret this, but...

 

- anybody who compares USA under Obama to Soviet Union or "socialist" block, has no clue about Soviet Union or socialist block.

- applying a label of "socialism" to the countries as different as Denmark, Venezuela and Soviet Union makes no sense. It might be worthwhile to define the system in more detail than just throw labels.

- the standard of living of most of the former "socialist" block did rise significantly after the regimes fell. Which is no way an indiction of Denmark's socialprograms.

- some of the former "socialist" block countries are more or less screwed up by corruption, oligarchy and other screw-the-masses policies that are more related to the mindset of people living there than they are to free-market or social programs. In other words, arguing that Poland/Ukraine/Lithuania are doing great or doing badly based on just their "capitalism" quotient makes very little sense.

- Edit: some of these Eastern European countries have some social programs that are in some ways better than the ones in US. (So does that make them "socialist" now? I wouldn't say). OTOH, these programs are often also broken in various ways, so, no it's not a paradise.

 

Lucky for me, this site has an ignore list.

[Cardboard]

When I mentioned Eastern European countries I had in mind: Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Romania. Not Ukraine!

 

You have looked up their GDP growth and unemployment rate. Then compare them to France, Germany, Spain ,etc. Pretty striking.

 

Denmark or the model society for our socialists has a population of 5.6 million! Funny but, your numbers do not match the European Commission:

 

http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/eu/countries/denmark_en.htm

 

I didn't say either that Eastern European countries are there yet with their standard of living but, it is surely trending in a better direction than ANY, and I will repeat, ANY state that has tried light socialism, medium socialism or heavy socialism.

 

Should we look at Asia or specifically China and Vietnam to see how much they benefited from opening their society to capitalism?

 

The stuff that Bernie is talking about is very very dangerous. They say that Trump is a populist. What is Bernie then??? Once you start to feed the Pavlov dogs they come for more and more and more and before you know it, your society is upside down and collapses. Appeasing the masses to gain power that is how I call it.

 

Cardboard

[Mephistopheles]

A man that is willing to cheat on his wife might be willing to do other things...

 

 

Buffett kept a wife and mistress at the same time...and had an affair with a third woman. I guess I'm glad he's not our President.

 

And I won't even think about letting him manage my money.

[rb]

When I mentioned Eastern European countries I had in mind: Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Romania. Not Ukraine!

 

You have looked up their GDP growth and unemployment rate. Then compare them to France, Germany, Spain ,etc. Pretty striking.

 

Denmark or the model society for our socialists has a population of 5.6 million! Funny but, your numbers do not match the European Commission:

 

http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/eu/countries/denmark_en.htm

 

I didn't say either that Eastern European countries are there yet with their standard of living but, it is surely trending in a better direction than ANY, and I will repeat, ANY state that has tried light socialism, medium socialism or heavy socialism.

 

Should we look at Asia or specifically China and Vietnam to see how much they benefited from opening their society to capitalism?

 

The stuff that Bernie is talking about is very very dangerous. They say that Trump is a populist. What is Bernie then??? Once you start to feed the Pavlov dogs they come for more and more and more and before you know it, your society is upside down and collapses. Appeasing the masses to gain power that is how I call it.

 

Cardboard

Aside from Russia, Ukraine is the country with the largest population in the EE. It was part of the USSR and since the fall has embraced capitalism. You can't just discard the biggest country because you don't like it because it doesn't fit your thesis. Also those EE countries that you fantasize about all have a pretty large safety net. What you would call heavy socialism. Romania for example has single payer healthcare, day care and kindergarten available for reasonable nominal fees, large state pension system, and free post secondary education.

 

Also you cannot compare GDP growth rates between developing and developed economies. Developed economies will have lower GDP growth rates for structural reasons. Good GDP growth for places like Poland and Romania are 5-6%. 3% not so much.

 

For Denmark I pulled the numbers from CIA factbook cause I hate the EU databases. We can change the data source if you'd like, but the story won't change. Also I used Denmark just because that's Bernie's fantasy and you were very disingenuous with your Venezuela example.

 

If your position is that Denmark is an aberration because its population is small and the system wouldn't work with a higher population. Then I propose we switch to Germany, a country which is a similar social democracy and has a population of about 80 million. We can pull the numbers and then you can explain to us how social policies ravaged that country's economy.

 

I'm not saying we should abandon capitalism or that we should have all that Bernie's talking about. But your view that any social policies destroy economies is non-sense. You may choose to have some of those policies or may choose not to based on your preference. But preaching economic apocalypse is simply disingenuous.

[Cardboard]

There is an enormous difference between Ukraine and the other Eastern European countries. The major one is Russia interfering in its affairs which can't be denied, the natural gas accord, etc. It just does not have the liberty to operate freely. It should have kept its nukes.

 

So it does fit my thesis. If freedom is not there, it does not work.

 

Germany: "GDP Growth Rate in Germany averaged 0.32 percent from 1991 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 2 percent in the second quarter of 2010 and a record low of -4.50 percent in the first quarter of 2009."

 

Does that look like the U.S.? I mean if you exclude the Obama years. LOL

 

It will be about 0.5% this year. What would it be if they did not benefit from a lower currency due to being part of the Euro? Unemployment rate of 6.2% is good I would say.

 

You look at all the data and the impact of 8 years of U.S. government heavy regulations and being involved in everyone's business and the numbers are trending closer and closer to Western Europe. The U.S. has not had its lowest growth rates and recovery since WWII because of population size. No. It was the same size as Europe before the Great Recession and was growing much faster. It is all these regulations that are strangling U.S. economic growth.

 

Even a man of the left is waking up now in France or Hollande and wanting to abolish the 35 hour week and all these tight labour regulations. The result is the threat of a strike by union at major refineries to halt the nation. To him I say, do as Ronald Reagan did to the air traffic controllers. Fire them all!

 

Venezuela is actually a great example of leftist populism a la Bernie gone wrong. A man, Chavez and now his successor, holds onto power by handing out freebies to less informed or the majority of the population until there is no money left. Yell against the rich and capitalists (Wall Street for Bernie). Tax them, seize their assets. What is fascinating is how fast it has happened. I have friends who left when he came into power and glad that they did since they are now rich vs their comrades.

 

Look, I am not opposed to all social programs. However, I think that they have to be very well managed and used for the less fortunate among us. We also have to ensure that everyone contributes to society and pay for these things no matter how small is the contribution. Being part of the team is key.

 

Regarding Trump and Bernie, I do believe that they have a finger on one thing that is really wrong in America and that is influence and lobbying over policies. Trump has cast a larger net which is the right thing while Bernie is only focused on Wall Street and ignore all the very powerful lobbyist and special interest in Washington.

 

Cardboard

[Palantir]

A man that is willing to cheat on his wife might be willing to do other things...A man that is willing to lie to 330mm Americans might be willing to do other things to.

 

I don't agree, and even if I did, are we to convict them for crimes they might commit? Maybe we need to stop expecting our elected leaders to be role models and paragons of virtue and instead focus on what effects they can wield with policy.

 

You seriously don't think Billy lying about what was going on in the Oval Office under oath was a serious matter?

 

If push comes to shove, you don't think Bill would lie about other more important issues?

 

He & Hillary have been involved in one shady, crooked, unethical deal after another, after another, after another.  If she gets elected, it is simply going to continue.  She & Billy need to be in the dustbin of history.

 

First of all, it is not proven that he lied under oath. Secondly, even if he did lie, I do not consider it a serious matter because the topic he lied about was not a serious matter.

[rb]

There is an enormous difference between Ukraine and the other Eastern European countries. The major one is Russia interfering in its affairs which can't be denied, the natural gas accord, etc. It just does not have the liberty to operate freely. It should have kept its nukes.

 

So it does fit my thesis. If freedom is not there, it does not work.

 

Germany: "GDP Growth Rate in Germany averaged 0.32 percent from 1991 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 2 percent in the second quarter of 2010 and a record low of -4.50 percent in the first quarter of 2009."

 

Does that look like the U.S.? I mean if you exclude the Obama years. LOL

 

It will be about 0.5% this year. What would it be if they did not benefit from a lower currency due to being part of the Euro? Unemployment rate of 6.2% is good I would say.

 

You look at all the data and the impact of 8 years of U.S. government heavy regulations and being involved in everyone's business and the numbers are trending closer and closer to Western Europe. The U.S. has not had its lowest growth rates and recovery since WWII because of population size. No. It was the same size as Europe before the Great Recession and was growing much faster. It is all these regulations that are strangling U.S. economic growth.

 

Even a man of the left is waking up now in France or Hollande and wanting to abolish the 35 hour week and all these tight labour regulations. The result is the threat of a strike by union at major refineries to halt the nation. To him I say, do as Ronald Reagan did to the air traffic controllers. Fire them all!

 

Venezuela is actually a great example of leftist populism a la Bernie gone wrong. A man, Chavez and now his successor, holds onto power by handing out freebies to less informed or the majority of the population until there is no money left. Yell against the rich and capitalists (Wall Street for Bernie). Tax them, seize their assets. What is fascinating is how fast it has happened. I have friends who left when he came into power and glad that they did since they are now rich vs their comrades.

 

Look, I am not opposed to all social programs. However, I think that they have to be very well managed and used for the less fortunate among us. We also have to ensure that everyone contributes to society and pay for these things no matter how small is the contribution. Being part of the team is key.

 

Regarding Trump and Bernie, I do believe that they have a finger on one thing that is really wrong in America and that is influence and lobbying over policies. Trump has cast a larger net which is the right thing while Bernie is only focused on Wall Street and ignore all the very powerful lobbyist and special interest in Washington.

 

Cardboard

Dude, I don't even know where to begin. I give you a reply based on data and you go on a rant with no facts. Instead you just scream buzzwords. Regulations! Ronald Regan! Obama the job destroyer LOL! 35 hour workweek!

 

You want to disqualify Ukraine, the largest country in EE because of a gas agreement with Russia where Russia sells them gas at below market rates. Because you know buying resources at below market rates is bad for an economy. All countries all over the world have foreign influences in their economies. It's in EE. It had capitalism, deal with it.

 

I point out that all of those countries in EE that you fantasize about have heavy socialist policies and you move away from the issue and go into a rant with no data points. Suddenly they don't matter anymore and they were the whole premise of you post.

 

Speaking of data points, you say that Germany had 0.32% GDP growth rate from 1991 to 2016. I quickly pulled Germany's GDP data from FRED from 1991 to 2014 (all available data on FRED) and it showed real GDP growth rate of 1.27%. So I have serious doubts about your 0.32% claim. Also if their GDP would have been subpar compared to LRAS you would expect to see high unemployment in Germany. You don't see that so I call BS on your whole argument.

 

I also see that you focus a lot on headline GDP growth number. As an economist one of the things you know is that headline GDP growth numbers are meaningless. It's all in the details. You can have an economy that's growing well where people are doing shitty and an economy that's growing more slowly or even shrinking where people are doing very well. By the way the job of a political leader is not to post great headline numbers and measure his "hands" to other leaders. The job of a leader is to make sure his people are leading good lives and are happy. If your people are fucking miserable but you post nice GDP numbers you have failed as a leader.

 

By the way, if all you care are GDP growth and taxes, I know of a country that has great weather, 8.7% GDP growth rate and 16% total taxes to GDP would you or anyone else want to move there? By the way there really aren't any Germans that want to leave their socialistic economic swamp to move to that pot of gold called the US. Dare to guess why?

 

Now if you want to have a reasonable argument based on facts I'm game.

[DTEJD1997]

A man that is willing to cheat on his wife might be willing to do other things...A man that is willing to lie to 330mm Americans might be willing to do other things to.

 

I don't agree, and even if I did, are we to convict them for crimes they might commit? Maybe we need to stop expecting our elected leaders to be role models and paragons of virtue and instead focus on what effects they can wield with policy.

 

You seriously don't think Billy lying about what was going on in the Oval Office under oath was a serious matter?

 

If push comes to shove, you don't think Bill would lie about other more important issues?

 

He & Hillary have been involved in one shady, crooked, unethical deal after another, after another, after another.  If she gets elected, it is simply going to continue.  She & Billy need to be in the dustbin of history.

 

First of all, it is not proven that he lied under oath. Secondly, even if he did lie, I do not consider it a serious matter because the topic he lied about was not a serious matter.

 

Well, there you go.  I couldn't have said it any better myself!

[Cardboard]

RB it is pointless having a discussion with you.

 

I pull data from the EU Commission on one of its own members and you say it is basically invalid. You then argue that GDP growth is unimportant as long as the leader keeps its people happy.

 

And then you tell me to go masturbate.

 

Wow! You have demonstrated all the characteristics of someone from the extreme left who wants to shut up anyone who does not think as he thinks.

[rkbabang]

Hmm

 

[vox]

I think what's more troubling than whether Bill Clinton lied about having an extramarital relationship is that the two leading Republican presidential candidates have little regard for telling the truth on the campaign trail.

 

I think that observation holds true regardless of which reputable fact checking website you prefer. Politifact's compilation has Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders (and John Kasich) graded at "True" or "Mostly True" for over 50% of their claims, while the vast majority of Donald Trump and Ted Cruz's statements were graded at "Pants on Fire", "False", or "Mostly False."

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-s/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/ted-cruz/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/john-kasich/

[rb]

RB it is pointless having a discussion with you.

 

I pull data from the EU Commission on one of its own members and you say it is basically invalid. You then argue that GDP growth is unimportant as long as the leader keeps its people happy.

 

And then you tell me to go masturbate.

 

Wow! You have demonstrated all the characteristics of someone from the extreme left who wants to shut up anyone who does not think as he thinks.

I'm sorry about the masturbation comment. That was a couple of steps too far and I apologize. I'll edit my post and take it out.

 

I'm actually nowhere near the far left. It just really gets me going when people ignore facts or just make up their own just to support their ideology. My ire, by the way no by no means reserved for the right cause there's enough people on the left that come up with category 5 whoppers. Those people tend to hang out more with Bernie. In your case, I have read other posts you wrote so I know you're not an idiot, far from it. However, when you make a politically related post your level of research and analysis drops substantially to help you reach an ideological conclusion. What do you call that?

 

On the Germany's GDP growth. The number i posted yesterday in my last post i pulled from FRED which uses OECD data. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that there's some place on EC's website that has your number. I wasn't able to find it. Nevertheless it is flat out wrong. Just quickly going on Germany's EC page and click full forecast show's 96-11 GDP growth rate 1.4%. But I wanted to be thorough and use EC data-set numbers. So i went to EC's Eurostat Database (I hate that one! but I did it for you). When you pull the real GDP data for Germany (2010 chain linked volumes, Mn Euro) you get the following values: 2015 GDP=2,782,594.7 1991 GDP=2,038,505.4. That's a growth rate of 1.3%. Very similar to the OECD data set which was chained 2005 euros.

 

Also I think you misunderstood my point on GDP growth, so I'll expand a bit. Firstly, yes I do believe that as a leader your goal should be for your citizens to be prosperous and happy. Economic performance of course plays a big part. I haven't really seen a population that is destitute and unemployed and happy. But headline GDP growth numbers by themselves without context or detail are pretty useless in judging underlying economic performance and well being.

 

Let's look at an extreme example. Say you have a country with very good GDP growth. However this country has a set of policies that result in a very unequal set of outcomes and all the economic growth accrues to just a few people at the top. Well it would suck to be a citizen in that country because all that economic growth doesn't benefit you at all. So you need some context around the number.

 

Another reason why headline GDP growth is kinda meaningless by itself is that demography plays a very big part. So for the 91-15 period 1.3% growth was enough to produce a very good set of outcomes. The same rate for the US would have been pretty bad because US has a better demographic profile so i'm expecting a higher growth rate for the US. For example I also know that Mexico has a much better demographic profile than the US. So I'm expecting Mexico to post higher GDP growth numbers. So when Mexico has a higher gdp growth than the US I don't know whether they're doing better, I need more information.

 

I'll stop now cause this is too long already.

[doughishere]

 

 

You guys should be watching Charlie rose...that guy from cbs last night....nailed it

[rb]

Got a link?

[Cardboard]

You guys should watch Frontline: The secret history of Isis.

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/the-secret-history-of-isis/

 

You would realize how stupid are our leaders. The worst was Cheney.

 

Cardboard