Buffett/Berkshire - general news

[CorpRaider]

Who do you think is buying the Bank of New York?  Ted or Todd?

[gfp]

If I had to guess I would guess Todd, but we'll see how big it gets.  Sort of surprising that Buffett never added JPM since he is now limited on WFC size.  And then JPM put Todd on the board of directors without BRK even owning shares.

 

Who do you think is buying the Bank of New York?  Ted or Todd?

[sleepydragon]

If I had to guess I would guess Todd, but we'll see how big it gets.  Sort of surprising that Buffett never added JPM since he is now limited on WFC size.  And then JPM put Todd on the board of directors without BRK even owning shares.

 

Who do you think is buying the Bank of New York?  Ted or Todd?

 

Buffett said he bought JPM in his personal account and that's because berkshire dont have it so there is no conflicts of interest. So he will not be buying jpm with berkshire money. We wont know his jpm trading in his personal account because there will be no filings..

 

[John Hjorth]

I'm not sure I understand your post here, sleepydragon,

 

What kind of conflict of interest are your referring to here? If I remember correctly [i may not], Mr. Buffett gave an interview at an Allen session/gathering, where he talked about that he considered WFC a better bank than JPM, but he had bought 1 million shares in JPM personally. [Needless to say, that I have since been puzzled about that statement.] I don't have the actual link.

[RichardGibbons]

What kind of conflict of interest are your referring to here?

 

Suppose that he bought WFC in his personal account rather than JPM.  And then, suppose after a couple of years, he decided that, amid WFC's recent scandals, the bank had lost a significant part of its competitive advantage and it was time to sell.  He knows that Berkshire selling would likely have a negative effect on price, which would hurt the position in his personal account. So, what does he sell first, Berkshire's stake in WFC or his own?  Since his personal account potentially benefits from front-running Berkshire, that's a conflict of interest.  By ensuring his personal stockholdings don't intersect with Berkshire's he can avoid this issue.

[John Hjorth]

Thanks for that elaboration, Richard,

 

In that light, sleepydragon's post makes sense to slow me, also.

[Jurgis]

What kind of conflict of interest are your referring to here?

 

Suppose that he bought WFC in his personal account rather than JPM.  And then, suppose after a couple of years, he decided that, amid WFC's recent scandals, the bank had lost a significant part of its competitive advantage and it was time to sell.  He knows that Berkshire selling would likely have a negative effect on price, which would hurt the position in his personal account. So, what does he sell first, Berkshire's stake in WFC or his own?  Since his personal account potentially benefits from front-running Berkshire, that's a conflict of interest.  By ensuring his personal stockholdings don't intersect with Berkshire's he can avoid this issue.

 

I know what you're saying, but it's not that simple.

 

If he buys WFC for BRK and JPM for himself, people can accuse him of conflict of interest because why he bought JPM for himself, is it better than WFC? Why did he not buy WFC for himself, does he not believe it's a good buy? Why did he buy it for BRK then?

 

I think that's why he said he bought Seritage in personal account, since it would not move needle for BRK, so presumably there's no conflict of interest then. Although you could argue that there is even in that case...

 

To be clear: I don't care what he bought where much. Just showing that it's not simple to be completely impartial or whatever the word should be.

[sleepydragon]

He bought for Berkshire Wfc and bac first. Later，he bought Jpm for his personal account because he ran out of banks to buy (interesting he didnt mention citi).  CNBC asked him why he didn't buy Jpm earlier for Berkshire, he said  Wfc are better..

 

[Mephistopheles]

First off, he owns WFC in his personal account too, not just JPM. He bought some WFC I think in the 90s and then during the GFC.

 

He said he bought JPM in his personal account and not WFC for the conflict of interest, but he already has WFC so I don't get it. Maybe he wanted to avoid buying even more WFC and keep what he has.

 

My guess is that he doesn't buy JPM for Berkshire because it already has what, like close to $40 billion in WFC/BAC? That and I also think he likes the deposit bases of WFC and BAC and their larger focus on bread and butter banking. JPM's investment bank is bigger portion of its assets than BAC's I believe, and also a bigger derivative book. Yea BAC has Merrill but he also got a steal with the warrant/pfd deal. Having said that, JPM it's still well run and he loves Jamie Dimon as a leader, so he bought in his personal account. Just my opinions.

[Jurgis]

Anecdote fitting the Oncor acquisition situation:

 

Despite his cordial demeanor, make no mistake, Buffett is a steely businessman. In just one of hundreds of telling

anecdotes, a trader at Salomon Brothers recounted how Buffett in the early 1970s was in the market for less-thanrobust

bank stocks like Harris Trust. He got a call that a block of Harris stock was available at the market price of

about $49, on which he offered $47. Taken aback, the offering party came back with a bid of $48.50, assuming that

was enough of a discount to the market price to get a deal done, at which point Buffett walked away. As the seller

hit the Street to sell the stock, without any takers, the market price fell, and when it was around $44, he came back

to Buffett offering to sell at that lower price. Buffett's response: "I'll pay $42."

 

from this week's Barron's article "Warren Buffett's Best Advice" http://www.barrons.com/articles/warren-buffetts-best-advice-and-why-he-doesnt-own-gold-1503115174

 

[CorpRaider]

The deposits are the moat, is my (very limited) understanding of his analysis.

[redskin]

First off, he owns WFC in his personal account too, not just JPM. He bought some WFC I think in the 90s and then during the GFC.

 

He said he bought JPM in his personal account and not WFC for the conflict of interest, but he already has WFC so I don't get it. Maybe he wanted to avoid buying even more WFC and keep what he has.

 

My guess is that he doesn't buy JPM for Berkshire because it already has what, like close to $40 billion in WFC/BAC? That and I also think he likes the deposit bases of WFC and BAC and their larger focus on bread and butter banking. JPM's investment bank is bigger portion of its assets than BAC's I believe, and also a bigger derivative book. Yea BAC has Merrill but he also got a steal with the warrant/pfd deal. Having said that, JPM it's still well run and he loves Jamie Dimon as a leader, so he bought in his personal account. Just my opinions.

 

Why do you think he owns WFC in his personal account?

[Guest longinvestor]

First off, he owns WFC in his personal account too, not just JPM. He bought some WFC I think in the 90s and then during the GFC.

 

He said he bought JPM in his personal account and not WFC for the conflict of interest, but he already has WFC so I don't get it. Maybe he wanted to avoid buying even more WFC and keep what he has.

 

My guess is that he doesn't buy JPM for Berkshire because it already has what, like close to $40 billion in WFC/BAC? That and I also think he likes the deposit bases of WFC and BAC and their larger focus on bread and butter banking. JPM's investment bank is bigger portion of its assets than BAC's I believe, and also a bigger derivative book. Yea BAC has Merrill but he also got a steal with the warrant/pfd deal. Having said that, JPM it's still well run and he loves Jamie Dimon as a leader, so he bought in his personal account. Just my opinions.

 

Why do you think he owns WFC in his personal account?

 

He said so in the meeting this year, it was some bank holding that was subsequently acquired by WFC. Munger has something like this as well, maybe American Express from the 70's or something? Someone asked this same question that insinuated front running. Buffett said that anything Berkshire held or was attractive to BRK was out of bounds for him. He joked that he wants his personal end result to be zero but not that of shareholders.

 

Every year some small minded questioner asks something like this, insinuating unethical or sleazy behavior. One guy got on the mic and asked him how come he sold his 10 year old cadillac for some $200K? Did he not feel guilty about making money on everything including a used car. Well, it turns out that the money went to a Omaha girls charity. Buffett even told the story of the guy who paid the $200K and on his drive back to NY, was stopped by a trooper for missing number plate and was let go after the driver related the story of the car purchase and showed Warren's signature on the dash.

 

Too bad the giant screen in the meeting venue only shows the face of the questioner during the question but not after Buffett finishes answering it. I wanted to see the face of guys after such question. Slaps do leave a mark on the cheek but disappears soon, this one should scar grey matter. 

 

 

[rb]

Well I though this was funny.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-berkshire-hatha-ratings-idUSKCN1B228N

 

Basically since Berkshire doesn't get to buy oncor S&P wan't cut it's rating. Because 100 billion in your bank account is not enough to keep a AA rating anymore. There's a real pack of geniuses over there at S&P.  ::)

[Guest longinvestor]

Well I though this was funny.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-berkshire-hatha-ratings-idUSKCN1B228N

 

Basically since Berkshire doesn't get to buy oncor S&P wan't cut it's rating. Because 100 billion in your bank account is not enough to keep a AA rating anymore. There's a real pack of geniuses over there at S&P.  ::)

;D

yeah, they likely also had Lehman and AIG at AAA in 2007. You can't be right all the time, you know.

[gfp]

I do think it is amusing to Warren and Charlie that Berkshire isn't able to attain the AAA rating anymore.  I remember it being something like, "they hold their cash in treasuries and the USA isn't AAA anymore, so we can't count on the cash being good at the AAA level anymore."  Interesting that it looks like Microsoft, JnJ and Exxon Mobil are still triple A?  Is that out of date or are those the only non financial AAA issuers these days?

 

I feel like Berkshire's diversification of income streams makes them less likely to default on their debt than the three above.  Maybe no corporates should be rated AAA.

[boilermaker75]

First off, he owns WFC in his personal account too, not just JPM. He bought some WFC I think in the 90s and then during the GFC.

 

He said he bought JPM in his personal account and not WFC for the conflict of interest, but he already has WFC so I don't get it. Maybe he wanted to avoid buying even more WFC and keep what he has.

 

My guess is that he doesn't buy JPM for Berkshire because it already has what, like close to $40 billion in WFC/BAC? That and I also think he likes the deposit bases of WFC and BAC and their larger focus on bread and butter banking. JPM's investment bank is bigger portion of its assets than BAC's I believe, and also a bigger derivative book. Yea BAC has Merrill but he also got a steal with the warrant/pfd deal. Having said that, JPM it's still well run and he loves Jamie Dimon as a leader, so he bought in his personal account. Just my opinions.

 

Why do you think he owns WFC in his personal account?

 

I've seen that stated many times. It would probably take some work for me to find any sources as everything I am recalling was some time ago, (5-15 years?).

[gfp]

It's easy enough to see his direct ownership of WFC.  It is 2,009,000 shares

 

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/72971/000120919117026722/xslF345X03/doc4.xml

 

 

First off, he owns WFC in his personal account too, not just JPM. He bought some WFC I think in the 90s and then during the GFC.

 

He said he bought JPM in his personal account and not WFC for the conflict of interest, but he already has WFC so I don't get it. Maybe he wanted to avoid buying even more WFC and keep what he has.

 

My guess is that he doesn't buy JPM for Berkshire because it already has what, like close to $40 billion in WFC/BAC? That and I also think he likes the deposit bases of WFC and BAC and their larger focus on bread and butter banking. JPM's investment bank is bigger portion of its assets than BAC's I believe, and also a bigger derivative book. Yea BAC has Merrill but he also got a steal with the warrant/pfd deal. Having said that, JPM it's still well run and he loves Jamie Dimon as a leader, so he bought in his personal account. Just my opinions.

 

Why do you think he owns WFC in his personal account?

 

I've seen that stated many times. It would probably take some work for me to find any sources as everything I am recalling was some time ago, (5-15 years?).

[redskin]

It's easy enough to see his direct ownership of WFC.  It is 2,009,000 shares

 

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/72971/000120919117026722/xslF345X03/doc4.xml

 

 

First off, he owns WFC in his personal account too, not just JPM. He bought some WFC I think in the 90s and then during the GFC.

 

He said he bought JPM in his personal account and not WFC for the conflict of interest, but he already has WFC so I don't get it. Maybe he wanted to avoid buying even more WFC and keep what he has.

 

My guess is that he doesn't buy JPM for Berkshire because it already has what, like close to $40 billion in WFC/BAC? That and I also think he likes the deposit bases of WFC and BAC and their larger focus on bread and butter banking. JPM's investment bank is bigger portion of its assets than BAC's I believe, and also a bigger derivative book. Yea BAC has Merrill but he also got a steal with the warrant/pfd deal. Having said that, JPM it's still well run and he loves Jamie Dimon as a leader, so he bought in his personal account. Just my opinions.

 

Why do you think he owns WFC in his personal account?

 

I've seen that stated many times. It would probably take some work for me to find any sources as everything I am recalling was some time ago, (5-15 years?).

 

I thought these were Berkshire pension holdings.  I remember him addressing this in the past.  He said he wasn't sure why it was disclosed that way.

[gfp]

It's pretty clear in the link:

 

"1. These securities are owned directly by Warren E. Buffett, who is a reporting person hereunder."

[gfp]

Not sure what happened to Jurgis's post, but this is from Marc Hamburg:

"The shares referenced in your e-mail below are Warren’s are personal holdings and are not held by Berkshire."

[Jurgis]

Not sure what happened to Jurgis's post, but this is from Marc Hamburg:

"The shares referenced in your e-mail below are Warren’s are personal holdings and are not held by Berkshire."

 

Thanks.  8)

[Mephistopheles]

I don't have a source but in the summer of 2008 when Wells dropped below $20 I can remember word for word him saying "I couldn't help but buy Wells Fargo (in my personal account) below $20"

 

It was reported on CNBC

[John Hjorth]

Naturally I don't question information from Mr. Hamburg - I hold him bery high, and admire his work for Berkshire, he is on the professional level in his very own league, in my opinion -, but if you take a look at the 13/Fs, and look specifically on the KO positions in the Berkshire group year end 2016 and try to reconcile the number of KO shares in the Berkshire 2016 Annual Report with the year end 2016 13/F, why is Berkshire then reporting in the Annual Report possesion of 400 M KO Shares, and not [400 M - 800 K] KO shares?

 

[800 K shares are reported as belonging to Mr. Buffett, while you have to include that position, to get to 400 M KO shares in total in the 13/F.]

[gfp]

 

Yeah, I'm not saying that everything with 'manager code 4' in a 13f is warren's personal account. Just that when a form 4 says these securities are owned directly by Warren E Buffett and the CFO confirms as such then we have the answer.  Even on Wells the 'code 4' line doesn't match his personal share count.

 

 

 

Naturally I don't question information from Mr. Hamburg - I hold him bery high, and admire his work for Berkshire, he is on the professional level in his very own league, in my opinion -, but if you take a look at the 13/Fs, and look specifically on the KO positions in the Berkshire group year end 2016 and try to reconcile the number of KO shares in the Berkshire 2016 Annual Report with the year end 2016 13/F, why is Berkshire then reporting in the Annual Report possesion of 400 M KO Shares, and not [400 M - 800 K] KO shares?

 

[800 K shares are reported as belonging to Mr. Buffett, while you have to include that position, to get to 400 M KO shares in total in the 13/F.]