no_free_lunch

Wagner pre announced the invasion by tweeting "Are you ready?" an hour or two before it kicked off. They also put out combat footage choreographed to metal. Everything I see makes me believe those guys are pure evil. What do I know but to confirm your thoughts I have also heard it's got the deepest ties to Putin.

I wouldn't consider Lemay a war criminal. He was responding to a military attack. The rules of engagement were set by japan in that case. You are implying a racial motivation but the same tactics used by Lemay in Japan were implemented by Britain against Germany. I won't touch Westmoreland for the reason that I don't know enough about the situation.

There are far right in the Canadian military. France has Marine Le Pen. The US has kkk. Israeli settlers say comments that are not nazi but have the same racial purity sentiment. I think this stuff is everywhere. I'm not saying there is not a problem but I think it's exaggerated. Azov is something around 1000 while the Ukrainian army has 300-400k members. If we are going to talk about Nazi's let's talk about mass murder at the true industrial scale. This is Ukraine history from the 30s during Holodomor. This is the history preceding Bandera. You kill off huge segments of the population you are going to get extremism. Ukraine is not the "good" guy but they are sure a victim. The Russia government, is definitely the bad guy. I don't need MSM to figure that out. I didn't care for them after Chechnya which was when I tuned in and have not seen much positive since. That regime and predecessors has a long history of human rights abuses. The proof is ultimately in people voting with their feet. How many people want to go live in Russia?

You didn't really address any of my logic did you? What do you got a link? You just want to bypass the fact that every western country has nazi types and try to paint an entire country based on piece meal evidence. Shit logic and you know it. Heres a link from France. What's your point? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Pétain

Fair enough but if I'm following the thread that would maybe, and I don't agree myself, mean Russia involvement in Donetsk. Did they get so lost that they ended up west of Kiev? Seems the whole thing is a pretext for Russia to invade pure and simple. Just like Chechnya or Georgia, they can always make up some excuse.

I remember reading about that time the Ukrainians had to fight the Nazi's and millions of their people died. Actually a lot of the cities we read about now got annihilated back then too. Lots of fun. So by your logic the US should be bombed out and children greased because I saw some kkk in Charlottesville. Got it.

I preferred his original Gangnam Style video. It was a lot more catchy and upbeat. This one was boring and not much dance moves. His career is done if he doesn't step up his game.

. Challenge accepted. I will do the same.

I am definitely NOT suggesting direct NATO involvement. E.g. bombing runs or no fly. I am suggesting we can give them all sorts of weapons and it will be up to them beyond that. The only NATO involvement I would like is to close the pipeline. In general your allusion to NATO mil intervention is a strawman and one I see often, not just you. It's used as a method to stifle and distract the argument for supporting Ukraine. Have I ever been in a country that was invaded? No. However the people in Ukraine certainly have and they are telling you what they want.

Oh im talking about these theories that the country is better off without weapons and Im pushing against anything that goes against them fighting. Maybe we can give them just a little bit of respect and assume they know what's best for their country? If they need weapons give them the weapons. We armed Afghanistan against the Soviets back in the day and somehow they actually won that one. The Americans failed in Vietnam despite huge efforts and that was at their peak. Given the incompetence of the Russian army perhaps Ukraine can actually hold them off. However they are going to need more than manpads. Ultimately they will need to launch offensives. More and more powerful weapons are needed. What we really need are new fronts against Russia. Shutting down the gas flow to Europe would be one. Syria, Chechnya, Georgia, now is the time. Would be a good time for Sweden and Finland to join NATO too. Russia is stretched right now, what are they going to do? They have said themselves they only use nuclear when the homeland is attacked.

Russian sources are claiming they delivered an ultimatum to the Mariupol defenders. Surrender today but after that point it is no quarter. Russian sources not Ukrainian, so I will take them at their word. Also reports of tribunals being created for war crimes and nazi behavior. Whatever that means, I don't want to know but it sounds like the beginning of mass murder. Just the tip of the iceberg but those pushing theories of surrender are missing the plot. As though this is a simple change of power. They really have no choice but to keep fighting because so many will be killed if they give up their weapons. Better to die on their own terms. Even if the odds are low, at least there is some chance.

Xerxes, it's a good read. I agree with so much of it. In particular that the war is not won and Russia may prevail. However what is the solution, just let Ukraine burn? The way I see it, they want to fight. They are desperate for weapons. Help them out. Read the Ukrainian history. A few thousand dead is bad but the Russians killed millions of Ukrainian citizens in the 30s. There's no going back to that. This is the huge fact that the author ignores. What will happen if Ukraine loses the war. How many will die in that case.

This is what the Russians are saying. It actually is encouraging. They are admitting to switching tactics. Heads up, Russian propaganda below. " The second phase of the military operation has begun. Russia first used hypersonic missile "Daggers" and began to destroy entire brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, now the fighting will be tougher At today's briefing of the Ministry of Defense, information was announced about the use of the Bastion and Dagger complexes as part of a special military operation. This is the first officially confirmed use of these types of weapons in a real conflict. This fact, as well as the emerging information about the successful use of cruise missiles against the mercenary base near Lvov and the location of the 79th brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Nikolaev, suggests that Russia, with a high degree of probability, has begun the second phase of the NMD. And now, unlike the first stage, the conduct of hostilities is built not on the classical concept of a large-scale offensive, but on the principles of “new generation” armed conflicts, when, instead of a ground offensive, priority is given to the use of long-range precision weapons and mobile special-purpose sabotage groups. Such an approach, although it will require more time for the complete demilitarization of Ukraine, will significantly reduce the possible losses of regular ground formations of the RF Armed Forces. Thus, the military operation is increasingly beginning to look like a tough modern war by all the rules, which greatly frightens the Ukrainian leadership, which is increasingly turning to NATO with a request to create a no-fly zone. However, predictably, there is no talk of any no-fly zone. "

I would just say that much of this anti Putin stuff is propaganda. Russia is far from defeated and many in the country support the war. I actually see them slowly winning. Ukraine does not really have the capability to launch strong counter attacks, not that I have seen, so over time Russia takes more and more territory. Mariupol is about to fall and then there is a land bridge to the Crimea. After that forces will be freed up to push into the central. There is a real chance of them cutting the east of the country off. They need everyone's help and maybe they can stall Russia out. However do not believe any hype that Russia is approaching defeat. Respect the Russian culture and realize they know how to suffer.

Yes I have seen this stuff. The thing is Russia oil production and our reliance on it are different things. So assume you believe in climate change, it still makes no sense to blame Russia in any way. You figure out a way that you don't need their energy products, they wont sell them to you. It's just all nonsense.

This is a very good point. The efforts to reduce energy production in Canada and the US are borderline treason. Our governments deliberately throttled our economies and handed advantage to our enemies. I don't know how you can possibly justify it. Why didn't they just focus on green energy and oil production at the same time. It's so arrogant what has been going on. Even now they won't admit it was a mistake.

Change, The US invasion of Iraq had 300k troops. This invasion has 190k Russia troops + 40k or more from Donetsk. So 230k. Then factor in that the US had support troops included in their numbers while much of Russia support can remain in Russia. So the numbers are not far fetched at all. There is also the in your face that the troops are attacking all those areas I mentioned outside of Crimea and Donetsk. You didn't really address that at all. If they were not planning to take it then why attack it? Xerxes, they may want an independent puppet government. I don't see your point. Same thing, not a democracy and Russia does what it wants.

They have Kiev half encircled. They hold the Chernobyl power plant. They are attacking karkhov. In the south they are attacking Mykolaiv. These are not part of the separatist states or Crimea. This is just the facts not any kind of spin. Putin's most clearly stated goal initially was the de militarization and regime change of Ukraine, at least that was the propaganda I saw early on. Lot more than NATO going on here.

changegonnacome, I disagree regarding Putin not wanting Ukraine. He considers that land, at least the east half as Russian. He also considers Ukrainians as being Russian. He is evil but he's not going all out yet. I know that even in WW2 the Nazis would destroy the cities to rubble in a few days in cases. You aren't seeing that here and surely they have more capacity than 75 years ago. It seems like Putin is ratcheting up the terror campaign in steps. It started out more precise and as they get frustrated they turn to civilians.. As much as I despise them this is not gloves off yet. Spek, You really nailed it. I can add that SAM sights in Vietnam would be supplied and sometimes even staffed by Chinese soldiers who would shoot down American planes. In Korea, American soldiers were actually directly fighting with Chinese forces who stepped in. There was a Russian fighter got shot down by turkey just a few years ago in Syria. I don't know, it feels like nonsense. Give them the weapons they need. It's the Ukrainians doing the dying which is the more challenging part. Let's jam the Russia army up so this never happens again.

Don't listen to Schiff. He's a perma bear and just a bag of hot air. I remember in the worst of the GFC him talking about how it's just getting started. If you listened to him you are much poorer today.

Xerxes is right. Russia can do tremendous damage given it has near air superiority and a large advantage in heavy equipment. I don't get the impression this is close to over. Here are some bear case arguments I see. Hungary is now talking about a bordering Ukrainian province joining Hungary. They claim a large ethnic Hungarian population. Hungary has avoided sending arms and perhaps it relates to their positioning here. Moldova also has a breakaway pro Russian province. What will happen when if Russia gets close enough. China... Already discussed but the biggest wildcard. I am cautiously optimistic that China will maneuver to its advantage and to me that means economics over arm shipments. The deals with Saudi, Russian oil purchases, etc. Scary times.

This is as I understand it as well. I read enough pro Russian sources and this is a recurring theme. They are pushing against western liberal cultural and monetary influence expansion. They are positioning themselves as the saviors. There's a kernel of truth to it but it's also nonsense when you think about it. Many other ways to go about it including just putting their own sanctions in place if that's what they really want. It reminds me of the Nazis justifying the invasion of Russia as destroying communism when really it was a land grab. If you follow the Russian sources they are not really consistent. It's a grab bag of excuses for different audiences. NATO, protecting Russian affiliated prople, historical claims to the lend, then western decadence. If anyone is really interested I recommend watching Putin's speech the day before the invasion. It gave me chills but he lays it out there and I would just take him verbatim.

The western economies are looking very weak right now and I am concerned. Our governments and businesses don't think long term and we are in a bad spot and liable to get squeezed. Look at the sanctions against Russia. Have we ever do e sanctions on this scale before? It seems the west has this in their playbook but that's all it is , a set of strategies. Nobody has tested this at an economy of Russia's size. Could there not be blowback. Not that I disagree with hurting Russia but we have to think it through. I am not sure that paying 1/3 more for gas is hurting Putin. Feels like a huge wealth transfer and not sure I like to whom. If one of the goals is to move to more local production of goods this will go against us, as energy prices are a big factor as is labor. If China can pick up Russia oil at a discount , then they have that much more advantage in production. We have , as we all know, a great deal of debt in our society. Further we are chained down by social program spending so difficult for the government to ever get out of that. The whole thing is a farce but its backed directly or indirectly by the USD as a reserve currency. We just block a huge economy from transacting in USD. Nothing genius here but won't Russia just sell to China in Yuan. Once that gets established, who knows where it goes. Iran and Venezuela of course but maybe India and Brazil move to some Yuan backed transactions too. If we trigger inflation in our economy and China can mitigate by buying cheap Russia commodities they may look better and better. For investing, I am still in stocks , mainly US and Canada but I don't like it one bit. Will be shifting some assets to farmland if I can find a deal. Also just buying as much stuff as I can. If I think I will need it in the next year or so, I'm buying it.

Gregmal, this is a lot bigger issue than fits into a leftist entitlement box. I think if you read through my posts, I am pretty far from being a left wing supporter. In fact a lot of conservatives actually do support Ukraine , in their own way. That can mean sanctions or mil aid. Many support it. You don't want to support it that's your opinion and that's fine, not really actually at all, but this is a lot bigger than the left right. You have a nuclear superpower wanting to go toe to toe and you and admittedly many in the left want to revert to domestic politics. Wake the fuck up.

I'm with the camp that the issues with Nazis in Ukraine are overplayed. The fact that the country is lead by a Jewish leader says a lot. These nazi types exist in every country and even the Canadian military has it. I would watch those far on the right in the west, in Canada and the US. Russia propaganda has fully immersed to that side. It's good to question the narrative from MSM but to just take the opposite side and support Russia is foolish. There is not a lot of critical thinking or consideration of the war crimes by Russia in Chechnya or Syria. All swept under the rug because Russia is going to "take down the deep state" which these clowns believe is based out of Ukraine. 100% Russia propaganda and its going to go against these people when we end up having to fight Russia.