incandescent light bulb ban

[rkbabang]

What I don't understand is how the metal housing on them gets so hot you are unable to touch, when they are only using 13 watts.

 

LEDs are semiconductor devices, the cooler they get the better they run and longer they will last. When designing a light bulb the team's objective is to get the heat the LED produces out as fast as possible. Since heat goes from inside to the outside very fast the outside  gets hot. Don't worry, LEDs bulbs will never become as hot as incandescent bulbs tough.

 

BeerBaron

Thanks BB

 

I agree with SJ as far as my right to be wasteful if I chose. Nothing annoyed me more when our Gov. gave insurance discounts for certain fuel efficient vehicles. The rates should only be different if they are in less accidents or cheaper to repair. And the Hummer getting 8 mpg is actually subsidizing road repair and maintenance for the SmartCar, with gas being 40+% tax.

 

I hear you, but when you look at everything government does, from war, to taxes, to printing money, to corruption, to subsidies, to regulations and protectionism, it is pretty hard to get too excited about light bulbs.  Although this pissed me off a lot more in 2007 when the only alternative was CFLs.  I simply can't stand florescent lighting and I won't use is in my home.  If LEDs didn't exist I'd be filling my garage with cases of 60watt incandescents right now.  Luckily the LEDs are really nice.  The 2700K Phillips bulbs give a light that looks just like incandescent lighting.  But I agree with you, I shouldn't be forced to save energy.  You either pay more for the bulbs or more for the energy you use, it should be your choice.

[DoddDisciple]

That doesn't make sense.  Tires are a consumable.  Even in third-world countries you need to replace the tires eventually, and here we replace them all the time.  So that cannot be true.

 

I can't find the quote now, but I recall that the illustration was replacing every current car with a fuel/energy efficient one. We don't have the resources to merely make the tires for 1 billion cars, much less the car itself. It was also in reference to a growing middle class in emerging countries that would want a vehicle. The resources may not be there if they want to replicate the nature and number of vehicle ownership in developed countries.

 

All that may be wrong of course. I also remember, possibly from the same book, that if everyone in China wanted an extra teaspoon of rice oil, it would exceed current worldwide supply by 100%. 

[Liberty]

I'm moving on to LEDs when possible because I've had issues with CFL failures long before they should have, not to mention the mercury content and such makes CFLs very dubious for the environment.

 

There's been research on this that showed that the mercury emissions from coal power plants were much higher from running an incandescent bulb than the small amount of mercury present in a CFL (and if you dispose of it properly, you're fine). But LEDs are even better because they don't have that problem.

 

We always have to look at the whole system.

 

I can't find the quote now, but I recall that the illustration was replacing every current car with a fuel/energy efficient one. We don't have the resources to merely make the tires for 1 billion cars, much less the car itself. It was also in reference to a growing middle class in emerging countries that would want a vehicle. The resources may not be there if they want to replicate the nature and number of vehicle ownership in developed countries.

 

That seems totally wrong on its face.

 

How many cars are on the road now? How long do tires last? What things other than tires do we use oil for? Do we expect to run out of oil within less than 4 years?

 

Not to mention that "replace every car with a fuel efficient one" is not a special action. Non-fuel-efficient cars don't last forever, people replace cars every few years anyway. Might as well replace them with something better, just like when you replace your computer you probably don't buy the exact same thing you bought 5 years ago or whatever.

 

But even in a world where making tires was a problem, the best thing to do would be to go electric so that oil could be used for things other than being burned in an internal combustion engine.

[rmitz]

Personally, I don't think the best way is to ban specific things like the incandescent lightbulb. Instead we should set energy efficiency standards to move things forward, as can be seen with how cars progress when standards tighten and stagnate when standards also stagnate (sometimes for over a decade).

 

So I'd be more in favor or a standard that says "You have to produce X number of lumens per watt however you want, and every Y years you have to get Z% more efficient".

 

This is actually how the law is written.  In the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Independence_and_Security_Act_of_2007#B._Lighting_Energy_Efficiency

 

[Liberty]

This is actually how the law is written.  In the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Independence_and_Security_Act_of_2007#B._Lighting_Energy_Efficiency

 

Excellent. Philips has already made a warm white LED that gets 200 lumens/watt. Good LEDs currently on the market get around 80 lumens/watt.

 

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/philips-creates-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-warm-white-led-lamp-202534551.html

[rkbabang]

And LEDs aren't the end of innovations in lighting technology. There are also these on the horizon. Laser diode lighting. Already being used in headlights for automobiles, and when costs come down will be used for general lighting purposes.  They last longer than LEDs as well as being even more efficient.

 

http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/bmw-laser-headlights-slice-through-the-dark

 

"For general lighting, what makes the lasers attractive is that they can be packed much more densely on a chip than LEDs can. Laser-based lights would not only be more energy efficient on a dollars-per-lumen basis but also more flexible, able to work as spotlights or floodlights at the flick of a switch."

[rkbabang]

Latest LED bulb from Phillips to go on sale in Jan.  800 lumen (60W equivalent), no heat sink, 25000 hour life, maybe for under $10 (they haven't released the price yet).

 

http://www.geek.com/news/philips-slimstyle-led-bulb-drops-the-heat-sink-looks-like-its-from-the-future-1579806/

[ERICOPOLY]

The LED candelabra bulbs that I purchased this summer were terrible.  75% of them already need to be replaced -- failed/defective.

 

The also had too cool of a color temperature.  Perhaps this shape is very difficult to get right.  The incandescent bulbs look a lot better.

 

But some of these light fixtures we have in the house have 8 bulbs on them.  40 watt incandescent bulbs multiplied by 8 is 320 watts.  They are an energy nightmare.

 

[boilermaker75]

That doesn't make sense.  Tires are a consumable.  Even in third-world countries you need to replace the tires eventually, and here we replace them all the time.  So that cannot be true.

 

I can't find the quote now, but I recall that the illustration was replacing every current car with a fuel/energy efficient one. We don't have the resources to merely make the tires for 1 billion cars, much less the car itself. It was also in reference to a growing middle class in emerging countries that would want a vehicle. The resources may not be there if they want to replicate the nature and number of vehicle ownership in developed countries.

 

All that may be wrong of course. I also remember, possibly from the same book, that if everyone in China wanted an extra teaspoon of rice oil, it would exceed current worldwide supply by 100%.

 

Sounds like something I have read in a Jared Diamond book.

[Liberty]

The LED candelabra bulbs that I purchased this summer were terrible.  75% of them already need to be replaced -- failed/defective.

 

The also had too cool of a color temperature.  Perhaps this shape is very difficult to get right.  The incandescent bulbs look a lot better.

 

I'd guess it's a more niche type of bulb and the big players probably haven't really focused on that format yet as cracking the regular bulb format will be a lot more rewarding, so most of what is available is probably terrible cheap crap (ie. ask a random Chinese manufacturer to slap the cheapest LEDs they can find in a bulb of that format and sell it without any heat dissipation or light quality testing). Just a guess though, I've never researched that type of bulb as I don't have any.

[rkbabang]

The LED candelabra bulbs that I purchased this summer were terrible.  75% of them already need to be replaced -- failed/defective.

 

The also had too cool of a color temperature.  Perhaps this shape is very difficult to get right.  The incandescent bulbs look a lot better.

 

But some of these light fixtures we have in the house have 8 bulbs on them.  40 watt incandescent bulbs multiplied by 8 is 320 watts.  They are an energy nightmare.

 

 

I agree I've got 7 chandeliers in my house that take from 4 to 8 bulbs each.  The LED bulbs aren't quite there yet. The heat sink looks awful and the light isn't right.  I've stocked up on these, I have a bunch at home: (EDIT: note that these are 130V bulbs so you will only use about 35W @ 120V).

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/5191/DEC-101000.html?tid=car.

 

In fact I might order another 100 just to be sure.  Hopefully by the time I run out there will be an option that looks decent. Or I'll go with the 25W halogen if they aren't banned yet by then.

 

[rogermunibond]

I think LED candelabra bulbs are a big engineering problem (small form factor, high lumen requirement).  I have some 60 watt candelabra bulbs in a dining room and it is nearly impossible to replace the lumens from 3 of those bulbs with LED or CFL.

 

Maybe Cree has a solution to this.

 

 

[beerbaron]

The LED candelabra bulbs that I purchased this summer were terrible.  75% of them already need to be replaced -- failed/defective.

 

The also had too cool of a color temperature.  Perhaps this shape is very difficult to get right.  The incandescent bulbs look a lot better.

 

I'd guess it's a more niche type of bulb and the big players probably haven't really focused on that format yet as cracking the regular bulb format will be a lot more rewarding, so most of what is available is probably terrible cheap crap (ie. ask a random Chinese manufacturer to slap the cheapest LEDs they can find in a bulb of that format and sell it without any heat dissipation or light quality testing). Just a guess though, I've never researched that type of bulb as I don't have any.

 

Liberty, do you work in the LED area too? Because your assesment is bang on of the quality of most China manufacturers.

 

BeerBaron

[Liberty]

Liberty, do you work in the LED area too? Because your assesment is bang on of the quality of most China manufacturers.

 

BeerBaron

 

I don't, just an amateur. But I am interested in the space and I've seen enough LEDs to know that quality can vary a lot.

 

Thanks for sharing your insights. It's always very cool to get info from someone on the inside! :)

[tyska]

The LED candelabra bulbs that I purchased this summer were terrible.  75% of them already need to be replaced -- failed/defective.

 

The also had too cool of a color temperature.  Perhaps this shape is very difficult to get right.  The incandescent bulbs look a lot better.

 

I'd guess it's a more niche type of bulb and the big players probably haven't really focused on that format yet as cracking the regular bulb format will be a lot more rewarding, so most of what is available is probably terrible cheap crap (ie. ask a random Chinese manufacturer to slap the cheapest LEDs they can find in a bulb of that format and sell it without any heat dissipation or light quality testing). Just a guess though, I've never researched that type of bulb as I don't have any.

 

Liberty, do you work in the LED area too? Because your assesment is bang on of the quality of most China manufacturers.

 

BeerBaron

 

I'm guessing that explains the LED flashlight that I got at Canadian Tire. Bought in Oct and will be taking back the one that replaced my first one. I guess I'll see how many times I can return it under the one year warranty. ::) 7 LED bulbs that start flickering and dieing one by one after about 10 hrs use.