Iran - Israel - Gaza Conflict

[Castanza]

12 hours ago, Xerxes said:

I would take a troublesome little Kim over normalization of using nuclear weapons. 
 

The post-1945 nuclear taboo has been a blessing.
 

And that blessing is compounded by the longevity since last it was used in war. 

It hasn’t been long enough to come to that conclusion yet imo. Even Bertrand Russell said that humanity rarely goes more than 100 years without a major screwup. 

[cubsfan]

Beginning at 3:45 - there is a short 3 minute interview of an UNRWA employee discussing Hamas control of their facilities. 

 

 

[Xerxes]

Thanks Cubsfan 

 

Admittingly I don’t even know what is UNRWA. Will have a look

 

unrelated this another great informative episode.
 

PS: the episode ends with a reference to an Anthony Bourdain’ (RIP) when he was filming Beirut in 2006 when all hell broke loose and how it changed him. I haven’t seen that specific one, I think I ll watch it. 

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/carnegie-connects/id1568315057?i=1000675182933

 

[73 Reds]

3 hours ago, cubsfan said:

Beginning at 3:45 - there is a short 3 minute interview of an UNRWA employee discussing Hamas control of their facilities. 

 

 

@cubsfan Thanks for posting.

[coc]

So since IDF HQ is in and around Tel Aviv (the Kirya), Israel uses human shields and many areas of Tel Aviv are legitimate targets for 2k ton bombs, am I following the logic of this thread correctly? 

[73 Reds]

28 minutes ago, coc said:

So since IDF HQ is in and around Tel Aviv (the Kirya), Israel uses human shields and many areas of Tel Aviv are legitimate targets for 2k ton bombs, am I following the logic of this thread correctly? 

Sure, the same way the US uses human shields because the Pentagon is located in DC.  

[Dinar]

3 hours ago, coc said:

So since IDF HQ is in and around Tel Aviv (the Kirya), Israel uses human shields and many areas of Tel Aviv are legitimate targets for 2k ton bombs, am I following the logic of this thread correctly? 

When Israel puts IDF or Mossad HQ under apartment buildings or hospitals, then you'd be correct.  Until then, the answer is no.

[coc]

20 hours ago, 73 Reds said:

Sure, the same way the US uses human shields because the Pentagon is located in DC.  

Indeed, would be similarly depraved logic to what the IDF uses. (We may also bring up that the "human shield" genocide propaganda doesn't make sense since Israel has slaughtered tens of thousands of civilians - often in a targeted way, s.a. the report made by dozens of returning American and British doctors about children being targeted by snipers - so I guess they aren't "shields" at all.)

 

17 hours ago, Dinar said:

When Israel puts IDF or Mossad HQ under apartment buildings or hospitals, then you'd be correct.  Until then, the answer is no.

Oh yeah, which Hamas "HQ" was under a hospital? al-Shifa? No, some small weapons, computers, and tunnels which criss-cross the entirety of Gaza. And what about the two dozen other hospitals bombed into uselessness? And who gets to decide the completely arbitrary standard you've just laid out? Israel? No, thanks. 

 

Just a reminder for anyone following this thread that, that earlier in the thread the above genius and genocide defender/denier said "If Israel was committing genocide, there would be no population in Gaza" an idiotic (and false) standard which would invalidate every recognized genocide since the Hutus, Jews, Armenians, Cambodians, Bosniaks all seem to have populations left. 

 

I'm not coming back to this thread because I will only engage genocide deniers ONCE on the behalf of an open-minded third party reader (you don't change the mind of the morally incapable), whom I encourage to do their own research in case they encounter this BS thread that is a stain on the entire forum. 

[73 Reds]

3 minutes ago, coc said:

Indeed, would be similarly depraved logic to what the IDF uses. (We may also bring up that the "human shield" genocide propaganda doesn't make sense since Israel has slaughtered tens of thousands of civilians - often in a targeted way, s.a. the report made by dozens of returning American and British doctors about children being targeted by snipers - so I guess they aren't "shields" at all.)

 

Oh yeah, which Hamas "HQ" was under a hospital? al-Shifa? No, some small weapons, computers, and tunnels which criss-cross the entirety of Gaza. And what about the two dozen other hospitals bombed into uselessness? And who gets to decide the completely arbitrary standard you've just laid out? Israel? No, thanks. 

 

Just a reminder for anyone following this thread that, that earlier in the thread the above genius and genocide defender/denier said "If Israel was committing genocide, there would be no population in Gaza" an idiotic (and false) standard which would invalidate every recognized genocide since the Hutus, Jews, Armenians, Cambodians, Bosniaks all seem to have populations left. 

 

I'm not coming back to this thread because I will only engage genocide deniers ONCE on the behalf of an open-minded third party reader (you don't change the mind of the morally incapable), whom I encourage to do their own research in case they encounter this BS thread that is a stain on the entire forum. 

There is no moral equivalency between sponsored terrorist organizations and our Middle Eastern ally.  Fortunately the majority sees it that way.

[Dinar]

1 hour ago, coc said:

Indeed, would be similarly depraved logic to what the IDF uses. (We may also bring up that the "human shield" genocide propaganda doesn't make sense since Israel has slaughtered tens of thousands of civilians - often in a targeted way, s.a. the report made by dozens of returning American and British doctors about children being targeted by snipers - so I guess they aren't "shields" at all.)

 

Oh yeah, which Hamas "HQ" was under a hospital? al-Shifa? No, some small weapons, computers, and tunnels which criss-cross the entirety of Gaza. And what about the two dozen other hospitals bombed into uselessness? And who gets to decide the completely arbitrary standard you've just laid out? Israel? No, thanks. 

 

Just a reminder for anyone following this thread that, that earlier in the thread the above genius and genocide defender/denier said "If Israel was committing genocide, there would be no population in Gaza" an idiotic (and false) standard which would invalidate every recognized genocide since the Hutus, Jews, Armenians, Cambodians, Bosniaks all seem to have populations left. 

 

I'm not coming back to this thread because I will only engage genocide deniers ONCE on the behalf of an open-minded third party reader (you don't change the mind of the morally incapable), whom I encourage to do their own research in case they encounter this BS thread that is a stain on the entire forum. 

You just lie.  90-95% of Jews, all non-combatants, were killed in areas controlled by the Nazis in WWII.  What % of Gaza's population that are non-combatants have been killed?  1%?  How many non-combatants in Gaza were killed by Hamas?  Jews were not shooting at Nazis in 1939 Poland or 1941 Ukraine.  You want to end the war?  Call for Hamas to surrender. 

[ourkid8]

ICC issues arrest warrants for Benjamin Nethanyahu and Yoav gallant for crimes against humanity and war crimes committed. This is a big deal! 
 

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-state-palestine-icc-pre-trial-chamber-i-rejects-state-israels-challenges

Edited November 21 by ourkid8

[73 Reds]

10 minutes ago, ourkid8 said:

ICC issues arrest warrants for Benjamin Nethanyahu and Yoav gallant for crimes against humanity and war crimes committed. This is a big deal! 
 

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-state-palestine-icc-pre-trial-chamber-i-rejects-state-israels-challenges

Old news.  The ICC is a joke.  The US does not even recognize it.

[Spekulatius]

The USA and many other countries do not recognize ICC but it is a sign that Israel is losing the war here in the views of many around the world and I think it does matter. Netanyahu has overplayed  is cards and now is on the same list than Putin is (who still travels around freely by the way.

I say this as someone who is sympathetic to Israel , but they are making a mistake in Gazah.

 

On a related note, I am also curious why no Hamas leaders or Iranian leader is there.

[cubsfan]

The ICC is corrupt and has no credibility. They deny Israel's right to defend themselves. Hamas is still holding American & Israeli hostages - and will not seriously negotiate for peace. Hamas continues to fight.

 

Israel continues to do the world a favor.

[Dinar]

1 hour ago, Spekulatius said:

The USA and many other countries do not recognize ICC but it is a sign that Israel is losing the war here in the views of many around the world and I think it does matter. Netanyahu has overplayed  is cards and now is on the same list than Putin is (who still travels around freely by the way.

I say this as someone who is sympathetic to Israel , but they are making a mistake in Gazah.

 

On a related note, I am also curious why no Hamas leaders or Iranian leader is there.

You are 100% right.  Unless Israel wipes out Hezbollah, wipes out Iran's nuclear capability, and transfers Gaza's population and West Bank's to Syria, it will lose the next war, since it will be under arms embargo from the West.

[Xerxes]

2 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

The USA and many other countries do not recognize ICC but it is a sign that Israel is losing the war here in the views of many around the world and I think it does matter. Netanyahu has overplayed  is cards and now is on the same list than Putin is (who still travels around freely by the way.

I say this as someone who is sympathetic to Israel , but they are making a mistake in Gazah.

 

On a related note, I am also curious why no Hamas leaders or Iranian leader is there.

 

The last Iranian leader who put 40,000 to sword in one go, died hundreds of years ago. His name was Nadir Shah. But you are right he would (should be) there on ICC list if he were still alive. He and his entire military high command. I think we had a few more magnolamic under the Qajars as well. 
 

Hamas is there. Where they belong. Or did you not know that already. You are pretty detail oriented, surprised you missed that and surprised the two previous replies didn’t point that out either.  
 

Somewhat comical that folks (on the Russia thread) talks about the greatness of post-1945 world Liberal order, and its institutions, how we must fight Russia to the death to preserve it, …… ICC is part of that post-1945 world order.
 

Why are folks even bringing up ICC here if it doesn’t matter ?  

[73 Reds]

16 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

The USA and many other countries do not recognize ICC but it is a sign that Israel is losing the war here in the views of many around the world and I think it does matter. Netanyahu has overplayed  is cards and now is on the same list than Putin is (who still travels around freely by the way.

I say this as someone who is sympathetic to Israel , but they are making a mistake in Gazah.

 

On a related note, I am also curious why no Hamas leaders or Iranian leader is there.

What would you have Israel do?  If terrorist organizations were murdering and raping your wife and kids, stealing you blind, operating lawlessly in your neighborhood, and openly calling for your destruction, just how would you respond?  For anyone who doesn't understand history, when push comes to shove, Israel could care less what anyone thinks and will fight to the death to preserve itself and its values even though fighting is always a last resort.

[Ulti]

To those who live in Canada.. is this an accurate story.. ? If so,what a horrific byproduct of October 7th.
https://www.thefp.com/p/explosion-of-jew-hate-in-canada-trudeau-israel-palestine

[mcliu]

Complete shit show in Canada. Palestinian protests in Jewish neighbourhoods. Protestors cosplaying as Sinwar.

Plenty of Hamas supporters everywhere. Especially universities and even on this forum.

But remember, they're not anti-jews. They're "anti-zionists"!

[Ulti]

47 minutes ago, mcliu said:

Complete shit show in Canada. Palestinian protests in Jewish neighbourhoods. Protestors cosplaying as Sinwar.

Plenty of Hamas supporters everywhere. Especially universities and even on this forum.

But remember, they're not anti-jews. They're "anti-zionists"!

What are the odds that Trudeau is voted out of office and some type of moderate/ rational person is elected… And is there a platform to solve the illegal immigration problem? 

[Xerxes]

I have not seen anything first hand. Then again I live the leafy suburban life. And not much happens around me.  
 

That said the one incident that was recent downtown was this lady whose family operated a Second Cup coffeeshop in the Jewish General Hospital. She was seen doing the Nazi salute during a protest and saying idiotic things like Final Solution. She was recognized on camera and her family got their franchise pulled by Second Cup. 
 

Montreal historically had a leftist, anarchist tilt to it. Nothing to do with Trudeau nor the Middle East conflict. Just that anti-war protest overtime attracts these anarchists. 
 

On Trudeau, he needs to go. It is high time. I would want a conservative government.  
 

That said I also don’t need a prime minister (the current conservative Opposition who is jockeying for the job) whose only foreign policy slogan is “we must stand with Israel”. As if of all the issues that exist in the world, he needs to go out of his way to highlight that one. I need a prime minister who has balls and stand for what is right and one that has conservative mindset. And not some dummy who is going to repeat Bibi’ slogan.  
 

 

 

[mcliu]

It doesn’t matter because Canada has 0 influence globally. We are neither a hard power nor a soft power. We have no power and the Middle East conflicts will play out regardless of who our PM is and how many protests there are. We should pick the best person to fix our own problems like healthcare, education, economy.

[mcliu]

On 12/11/2024 at 4:38 PM, Ulti said:

What are the odds that Trudeau is voted out of office and some type of moderate/ rational person is elected… And is there a platform to solve the illegal immigration problem? 

If any election happens today it would be a Conservative majority but anything can happen between now and the election in Oct.

 

We don’t have an illegal immigration problem. Our govt deliberately blew up the immigration system by accepting millions of unskilled temporary workers. No there is no system to ensure they leave.

[Xerxes]

12 hours ago, mcliu said:

We should pick the best person to fix our own problems like healthcare, education, economy.

100%

 

And pay our NATO bills.

it ain’t free.  

[Xerxes]

@mcliu
 

which part of Canada are you from ? 
if you are ok to reveal that