Is Europe becoming uninvestable?

[Marco Van Basten]

4 hours ago, Paarslaars said:

Which freedom do you think US citizens have that we do not?

Freedom of speech.  What will happen to me in France, UK, et all if I say that Islam is a threat to European civilization and Islamic immigration is incompatible with Western values?

[Libs]

22 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Freedom of speech.  What will happen to me in France, UK, et all if I say that Islam is a threat to European civilization and Islamic immigration is incompatible with Western values?

 

22 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Freedom of speech.  What will happen to me in France, UK, et all if I say that Islam is a threat to European civilization and Islamic immigration is incompatible with Western values?

 

22 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Freedom of speech.  What will happen to me in France, UK, et all if I say that Islam is a threat to European civilization and Islamic immigration is incompatible with Western values?

Bingo. This is the whole game. 

[cubsfan]

19 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Freedom of speech.  What will happen to me in France, UK, et all if I say that Islam is a threat to European civilization and Islamic immigration is incompatible with Western values?

 

It's the slow move to the suppression of political dissent and the move toward totalitarianism. Worse yet, try it in an Islamic country and you'll end up dead.

 

Much of Europe will learn the hard way.  The USA is fighting its way out as we speak and it's ugly.

[tooskinneejs]

5 hours ago, Paarslaars said:

Which freedom do you think US citizens have that we do not?

Free speech, as others have noted.  But also freedom of how to spend your money if nearly 50% is taken off the top.

[Dalal.Holdings]

Everyone loves free healthcare and a lot of vacations. The problem is when Genghis Khan or Vladimir Putin come to take everything away because you suddenly find you no longer have economic heft or technological capabilities to defend yourself and also lack citizens willing to fight for said defense.

 

And no, guys fighting to defend the country won’t have access to “work-life balance”. They’ll have to be ready to work hard.

 

It is looking increasingly likely that high-end technology, notably AI, will be absolutely crucial for military supremacy, not to mention industrial capacity which Europe seems intent to diminish.

 

Europe has been living in a fantasy thanks to the USA covering for its defense since the end of the Cold War…

[james22]

 

[Paarslaars]

11 hours ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Freedom of speech.  What will happen to me in France, UK, et all if I say that Islam is a threat to European civilization and Islamic immigration is incompatible with Western values?

 

Here you have to make a clean distinction between UK and the rest of Europe.

In the UK, Keir Starmer has been sentencing people based on X posts which is a blatant attack on freedom of speech, the guy is an absolute disgrace of a human being. You cannot generalize this for Europe as a whole.

 

You can make your statement in Belgium without any legal issues. Same for countries like Italy, Spain, every eastern European country,... many people currently do. Not sure about all Scandinavian ones but if I am not mistaken even a minister in Norway recently made your exact comment.

 

And let's not pretend U.S. citizens take criticizing Jesus all that well... feel free to go to a small town in the south or mid-west and drive around with a car stating "Jesus is a fag", how long until you get your ass shot? Not trying to provoke here but... let's be fair when making these comparisons. 

 

10 hours ago, tooskinneejs said:

Free speech, as others have noted.  But also freedom of how to spend your money if nearly 50% is taken off the top.

 

You don't really have freedom to spend your money if you are forced to spend all of it on high rent prices and medical care. I have the freedom to spend the money after taxes because thanks to free health care and cheap higher education, I don't have to save up for a surgery or a kids college fund. If you compare these two systems overall on their financial merit, I think @Spekulatius summarized it well. The high earners (without too much bad luck) are better off in US, the rest is better off in Europe. And while I agree with @Kizion that this has distorted our society too far to take advantage of, I still prefer to live in a place where the people around me are generally doing OK and not struggling financially, independent of their income bracket. And just to be clear, I would fall under 'high earner' so I am not stating this out of self interest, nor am I a socialist because I've voted for the same right-wing party since I'm 18.

 

Europe has gone too far in letting people take advantage of the social security system though, we are gradually seeing counter measurements being taken, as the recent Belgian government has plans to do so as well.

 

Edited Tuesday at 06:41 AM by Paarslaars

[Loss Horizon]

On 6/29/2026 at 8:56 PM, Marco Van Basten said:

Freedom of speech.  What will happen to me in France, UK, et all if I say that Islam is a threat to European civilization and Islamic immigration is incompatible with Western values?

 

Nothing? In Germany, some people who say this are literally in the parliament.

 

Btw, who promised free speech in the first place? In Germany it is clearly limited by federal laws. For example, insulting somebody is a crime, as it in the law for long time already. Quoting the Nazis is also a crime. Just don't do crime and get familiar with local laws before you enter a country.

 

But the courts are quite relaxed, and they usually allow of some insults to politicians, because it's part of politicians' job to have a thick skin.

 

When I visited the US, I had to prepare and learn many things: what to say to the border control, that if I'm stopped by road police I better keep my hands on the wheel and visible, that I must keep alcohol bottles in trunk when driving, and cover a bottle with a paper bag if drinking in public. That I must not say the Russian word "книга"("book") in public. Those feel ridiculous, but I accepted and prepared as a guest. Same with Germany.

 

The American populists, including the current ruling class, love to compare rules like that with other countries and imply that it is something bad.

Edited 2 hours ago by Loss Horizon

[Marco Van Basten]

55 minutes ago, Loss Horizon said:

 

Nothing? In Germany, some people who say this are literally in the parliament.

 

Btw, who promised free speech in the first place? In Germany it is clearly limited by federal laws. For example, insulting somebody is a crime, as it in the law for long time already. Quoting the Nazis is also a crime. Just don't do crime and get familiar with local laws before you enter a country.

 

But the courts are quite relaxed, and they usually allow of some insults to politicians, because it's part of politicians' job to have a thick skin.

 

When I visited the US, I had to prepare and learn many things: what to say to the border control, that if I'm stopped by road police I better keep my hands on the wheel and visible, that I must keep alcohol bottles in trunk when driving, and cover a bottle with a paper bag if drinking in public. That I must not say the Russian word "книга"("book") in public. Those feel ridiculous, but I accepted and prepared as a guest. Same with Germany.

 

The American populists, including the current ruling class, love to compare rules like that with other countries and imply that it is something bad.

You are missing my point, in Europe free speech is limited, in the US, not really.  Check out Paivi Rasanen case in Finland.  Oh, and it's bullshit that you cannot say kniga in the US.  It is a not a crime.  I say it all the time in public to my kids.  You were told not to say it because blacks might not hear the first letter and get offended.  That's different from the government punishing you for it.  

[Loss Horizon]

39 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

You are missing my point, in Europe free speech is limited, in the US, not really.  Check out Paivi Rasanen case in Finland.  Oh, and it's bullshit that you cannot say kniga in the US.  It is a not a crime.  I say it all the time in public to my kids.  You were told not to say it because blacks might not hear the first letter and get offended.  That's different from the government punishing you for it.  

 

What exactly I'm missing? I just wrote a lot of text about that.

 

I checked this: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/26/finnish-mp-paivi-rasanen-convicted-homosexuality-developmental-disorder

 

That's what I'm talking about. There is a long standing law in question, and "the US-based conservative legal advocacy group Alliance Defending Freedom, which has tried to use her case as an example of censorship in Europe" is upset about something happening in another country with different rules.

Edited 34 minutes ago by Loss Horizon