PGA Effs Over 9-11 Families and Loyal Players

[Parsad]

Amazing how quickly and easily the PGA effed over Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods, Rory McIlroy and a host of other loyal players, as well as the 9-11 families.

 

Saudi money talks, everyone else walks!  After 30 years, I won't be watching any more golf.  Cheers!

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10078375-pga-tour-liv-golf-dp-world-tour-agree-to-merge-and-end-all-pending-litigation?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

[Gregmal]

Money talks man. Not surprising. Like many, the PGA people talked moral higher ground and it was just a smoke screen meant to distract from a poor business model. 

[Sweet]

Tiger turned down 700 million apparently.

[Mick92]

Stunning news. I was surprised PGA agreed to it. They appeared to have stopped any significant player losses to LIV and LIV wasn't generating huge interest in their own events. Maybe fear over litigation costs if they lost the suits and what would come out during discovery on both sides. The PGA's moral high ground campaign was vile to me so I'm not surprised they can't live up to it. Monaghan is even admitting he's a hypocrite lol.

 

Hard to get a good feel for how this pans out, structure wise, but certainly looks like the guys who went and got a huge cheque are the big financial winners and guys who stayed and turned it down are the financial losers.

[ValueArb]

On 6/7/2023 at 12:56 AM, Sweet said:

Tiger turned down 700 million apparently.

 

A better patriot than half the tour.

[Gregmal]

10 minutes ago, ValueArb said:

 

A better patriot than half the tour.

Lol yea. And yet, what do most people think of Tiger Woods? They shit on him.

 

I totally agree with the LIV guys. Taking care of their kid’s kid’s kid’s with certainty supersedes some sort of media inspired virtue signaling. There was actually a good Netflix documentary on this. Some of these guys doubled their career earnings AFTER exiting their prime by signing with LIV. The Scottish guy I forget his name was one. 47 years old. Career middle of the pack guy. Borderline not even qualifying for PGA tour anymore, yea….why wouldn’t he take $30m to go to LIV?

[Gregmal]

Ian Poulter it was. Take care of your family. Fuck everyone else.

[Sweet]

Dunno Greg, many of those guys going to LIV are already multi-millionaires lol.  Can take care of there multiple times only.  Respect for Tiger and McIlroy on this, but they both got fucked by the PGA.

[hasilp89]

Dustin said it best in the netflix documentary (below). I don't feel bad for any of them. They all get paid lots of money to play golf. They don't work in coal mines.

 

“For me, it was playing less, making more money. Pretty simple. If someone offered anyone a job, doing the same thing they’re already doing, but less time at the office and they’re going to pay them more, pretty sure you’re going to take it. And something is wrong with you if you didn’t.”

 

There is a lot of gripe currently with the announcement this week. Think there is a lot that still needs to come out. Legal mess PGA had gotten itself into over antitrust is now gone, likely we underestimate where that may have been heading. Unclear if there are clawbacks for LIV players. At the end of the day more money is coming into the game, should be good for the players, or at least the good ones.

 

[Sweet]

I don’t get the crap that LIV wrecks the game, or the link to the Saudis and 9/11 - thinks that’s all bs.  The PGA has no right to a monopoly but there is something to be said for loyalty and standing on a principle even if it costs money.  So I respect Tiger and McIlroys decision, less so the multi-millionaires who took the money claiming they need it to take care of the family lol.

[hasilp89]

I initially felt that same "respect" but then i imagined what i would do 

 

PGA: Average Pro is on the road 40 weeks a year to make $1.5M/year

LIV: 14 Events a year - significantly more money year.

 

Its easy to turn up a nose at the "take care of family" but when you consider that golf is very hard and that staying good is also very hard and that although you can age better than with most other sports its still very damn hard to keep up, there are also physical injuries and mental issues (henrik stenson). There are no guarantees how long that $1.5m/year goes on. Easy for Rory/Tiger to take high ground, but for most other players it makes a lot of sense.

 

That said it may fall back on them - https://www.si.com/golf/news/jimmy-dunne-the-architect-of-the-pga-tour-liv-golf-deal-lays-out-the-details  

 

 

 

 

[Mick92]

Yes, I think for all the guys that left, they left for the cash but with underlying reasons.

 

Age/hard to compete any more: Mickelson, Poulter, McDowell, Stenson, Westwood

Injury concerns: Koepka, De Chambeau

Less golf, more family: DJ, Cam Smith

 

Conversely, a guy like McIlroy stays because he's the current face of golf, chasing his own history and is already very well compensated. Not at LIV levels, admittedly, but he has good reason to stay. Tiger is one of the top 2 players of all time, would destroy his legacy by going and probably (almost definitely) isn't physically capable of playing 14 events anyway.

 

So I think everyone made the choice that suited them, for better or worse. I can't really blame any of the guys for going and thought the moral outrage was completely absurd.

 

Still pretty unsure as to how it's all going to work though. That SI article is very pro pga, but I do think some kind of sweetener for the guys that stayed or penalty for the guys that left is going to be necessary if they do end up rejoining.

[Parsad]

8 hours ago, Mick92 said:

Yes, I think for all the guys that left, they left for the cash but with underlying reasons.

 

Age/hard to compete any more: Mickelson, Poulter, McDowell, Stenson, Westwood

Injury concerns: Koepka, De Chambeau

Less golf, more family: DJ, Cam Smith

 

Conversely, a guy like McIlroy stays because he's the current face of golf, chasing his own history and is already very well compensated. Not at LIV levels, admittedly, but he has good reason to stay. Tiger is one of the top 2 players of all time, would destroy his legacy by going and probably (almost definitely) isn't physically capable of playing 14 events anyway.

 

So I think everyone made the choice that suited them, for better or worse. I can't really blame any of the guys for going and thought the moral outrage was completely absurd.

 

Still pretty unsure as to how it's all going to work though. That SI article is very pro pga, but I do think some kind of sweetener for the guys that stayed or penalty for the guys that left is going to be necessary if they do end up rejoining.

 

McIlroy is not the face of golf...he was a while ago.  Scheffler and Rahm are the best players on the PGA tour...and Dustin Johnson and Koepka are the best players on LIV. 

 

McIlroy became the defacto face of the PGA after the dissidents left and his stance on staying loyal to the PGA.  The PGA used him...Tiger...Nicklaus.  

 

At the end of the day, it was all about money...money to leave the PGA...money the PGA did not want to give the players...money that the PGA gladly took to sportswash the Saudi atrocities.

 

Cheers!

[Mick92]

2 hours ago, Parsad said:

 

McIlroy is not the face of golf...he was a while ago.  Scheffler and Rahm are the best players on the PGA tour...and Dustin Johnson and Koepka are the best players on LIV.

 

I disagree, Scheffler and Rahm are likely better players at the moment, even though world number 1 swaps around a lot, but McIlroy is well ahead in star power and was the logical person for them to weaponise in their response. I'd also include Cam Smith in the top 3 for LIV. Otherwise I agree, it was all money related and still is.

[hasilp89]

3 hours ago, Parsad said:

money that the PGA gladly took to sportswash the Saudi atrocities.

surprises me that folks stick so strongly to this narrative. Seems hypocritical given how man other things that the saudis are involved in that are not under scrutiny. What about the $3b investment in activision. $2b investment in Uber. The list goes on. 

[Castanza]

It’s all about money for sure. The whole situation isn’t much different than what happened in the late 60’s with some players starting the APG until they came to an agreement to get paid more. 
 

As someone who loosely follows golf and plays from time to time; the whole LIV thing just seems confusing. The whole team aspect of it comes across kind of “corny”. The Crushers, The Fireballs? The whole thing sounds like something that would air on ESPN the Ocho. Part of the appeal to PGA is the tradition. But I guess a lot of sports (ex. College Football) are making changes and moving away from that so who knows! 

[Parsad]

19 hours ago, hasilp89 said:

surprises me that folks stick so strongly to this narrative. Seems hypocritical given how man other things that the saudis are involved in that are not under scrutiny. What about the $3b investment in activision. $2b investment in Uber. The list goes on. 

 

I'm not happy about any of it.  I wish the U.S. and Canada would simply approve the use of domestic fossil fuels in a managed, efficient, "as clean as possible" manner to create energy independence away from the Middle East, while continuing to pour more resources into clean energy.  The more the OPEC monopoly is toppled, the better it is for the world!  Cheers!

[Blugolds]

6 hours ago, Parsad said:

 

 I wish the U.S. and Canada would simply approve the use of domestic fossil fuels in a managed, efficient, "as clean as possible" manner to create energy independence away from the Middle East, while continuing to pour more resources into clean energy.  The more the OPEC monopoly is toppled, the better it is for the world!  Cheers!

 

Seems like such the obvious correct, reasonable, logical route..and yet it seems like everyone is on one side or the other. Either drill baby drill!...or zero fossil fuels, everything has to be clean and if you dont like it we are gonna force it down your throat. 

 

As you described, it can be both! Yes, clean energy can make sense if done in a rational, intelligent and gradual manner. I love the idea of renewables, net-zero home building practices, geothermal, solar, even EV where it works well. But I dont like the way they are going about the rapid change, penalizing avg folks by forcing adoption at higher costs. 

 

 

 

 

[Castanza]

59 minutes ago, Blugolds11 said:

I love the idea of renewables, net-zero home building practices, geothermal, solar, even EV where it works well.

 

Anyone pushing “green energy” needs to go read the book Cobalt Red by Siddharth Kara 

 

At least with O&G you can look around and see solid paying jobs for most of the world (not all). I wonder how cost efficient renewables would be if we removed the literal slave labor at the bottom of the chain? 

[Parsad]

I know I'm a hyprocrite for breaking my vow to not watch the PGA, but I had to watch Canada's Nick Taylor eagle the playoff to win the RBC Canadian Open...a Canadian hasn't won in 69 years!  Way to go Nick!  What a putt!  Cheers!

[Parsad]

Regarding why it's quite painful to watch the Saudi's get their mitts on the PGA.  I don't think there is another sports organization that is in control of and connects with players/fans at every level.  The PGA is responsible for numerous tours around the world, including virtually all of men's golf and lady's golf.  They have their hands on college players, amateur championships, the senior's tour, instructors at every major golf course around the world, and any member who wants to handicap their game has to run through the PGA's programs and rankings.  It was a virtual monopoly until LIV came along.  While certain aspects of LIV were good for golf, it is the perfect stepping stone for the Saudi's to get into other sports.  Cheers!

[dwy000]

2 hours ago, Parsad said:

Regarding why it's quite painful to watch the Saudi's get their mitts on the PGA.  I don't think there is another sports organization that is in control of and connects with players/fans at every level.  The PGA is responsible for numerous tours around the world, including virtually all of men's golf and lady's golf.  They have their hands on college players, amateur championships, the senior's tour, instructors at every major golf course around the world, and any member who wants to handicap their game has to run through the PGA's programs and rankings.  It was a virtual monopoly until LIV came along.  While certain aspects of LIV were good for golf, it is the perfect stepping stone for the Saudi's to get into other sports.  Cheers!

Just reading some of the summaries of the deal it looks like the PGA made out like a bandit.  They got rid of a competitor, got rid of the litigation, got a minority partner who will put up a ton of sponsorship cash, and retain ultimate control of the sport.  PGA keeps the non-profit holding company and has majority of the Board of the operating company that will run not only the PGA events but also the LIV events. I'm actually struggling to understand what LIV got out of this.

 

 

[Parsad]

44 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

Just reading some of the summaries of the deal it looks like the PGA made out like a bandit.  They got rid of a competitor, got rid of the litigation, got a minority partner who will put up a ton of sponsorship cash, and retain ultimate control of the sport.  PGA keeps the non-profit holding company and has majority of the Board of the operating company that will run not only the PGA events but also the LIV events. I'm actually struggling to understand what LIV got out of this.

 

 

 

LIV got nothing.  The Saudi's will be funding future PGA growth and profiting with them.  The LIV name will probably disappear over time and it will all just be the PGA.

 

Yes, PGA made out like a bandit...that's why Monahan did it.  He'll take the blame, but made the PGA stronger, better and the sole golf monopoly again.  But gave up their soul and did it at the expense of many of their best player's who risked their reputation and turned away the money.

 

Cheers!