Russia-Ukrainian War - Political

[John Hjorth]

9 hours ago, Xerxes said:

 

 

 

Who would ever engage in confidential - behind closed doors - diplomatic discussions and negotiations, which may even be socalled 'robust', candid or even confrontational, with this person, after viewing this video?

[Sweet]

2 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

 

 

Who would ever engage in confidential - behind closed doors - diplomatic discussions and negotiations, which may even be socalled 'robust', candid or even confrontational, with this person, after viewing this video?

What are you seeing John which you don’t like and which I may have missed?

[james22]

3 hours ago, skanjete said:

I really don't envy that man's position !

 

Since the US is unwilling to risk nuclear Armageddon to win the war, Ukraine has already lost. 

 

You may believe it terribly unjust, but that doesn't matter (and why we build militaries).

 

They can either negotiate an end now or surrender unconditionally after some time and greater cost. 

 

That's the position he's in, whether he understands it or not.

[formthirteen]

44 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Good lord this entire thing reads desperate Western propaganda. The hallmark is always the intimate knowledge or declaration of exactly what someone else is thinking. We already saw(concretely) whom had a vested effort in undermining the deal. 

 

It's from ISW (https://understandingwar.org/). I suggest everyone participating in this thread apply for the open position of Russia Researcher in Washington, DC and/or the War Studies Advanced Program (myself included):

https://hertogfoundation.org/programs/war-studies

 

Quote

The Hertog War Studies Program is an intensive two-week program run by the Institute for the Study of War in Washington DC.

 

Sales pitch:

https://new.express.adobe.com/webpage/dhOCKjNEDHI4T?

Edited 12 hours ago by formthirteen

[james22]

2 hours ago, Sweet said:

I would disagree that US 'made' NATO expand. 

 

Was Yanukovych nudged?

 

 

[John Hjorth]

@Sweet,

 

Mr. Vance is referring to what has been of confidential communication with Ukraine / Mr. Zelenskyj, and Mr. Zelenskyjs attitude and behavior under these talks and negotiations without Mr. Zelenskyjs accept.

 

That is just such a no-go. Please remember here, I'm not accusing Mr. Vance of lying.

 

Mr. Vance has done the same with regard to communication with political leaders and representatives of NATO-allies, Mr. Vance saying 'they in public talk about we [the allies, John] will provide unlimited support to Ukraine', while when we are talking with them on the phone it is totally different' [<- or something similar].

 

Again, that is just such a no-go. Please remember here, I'm not accusing Mr. Vance of lying.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

Mr. Vance is going to loose personal power and influence pretty fast, because gradually he'll experience, that noone want to talk to and with him about anything any longer, eventually. I suppose anyone with practical experience in such matters woulden't dare to provide some advice on that matter to him, like for Mr. Trump, because all with knowledge and experience on the matter in the current administration are scared shitless from doing so.

Edited 11 hours ago by John Hjorth

[james22]

1 hour ago, cubsfan said:

Good news, first step in dealing with a problem is to own it:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-03-04/eu-proposes-150-billion-in-loans-for-pan-european-defense?srnd=homepage-americas

 

Does it offset what the EU spends on Russian oil and gas?

[Sweet]

8 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

Was Yanukovych nudged?

 

 

Yanukovych was overthrown by his own people James.  You think the 800,000 (peak) who occupied Kyiv were paid up actors by the Americans lol?

 

Yanukovych failed to sign a trade association with the EU under pressure from Russia against the will of his own people and parliament:

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/6963

 

Does it not matter that he defied his own people and parliament?  Does it not matter than it was Russian meddling that torpedoed that agreement and sparked the civil unrest?

 

Do you even know this or do you simply not care because ‘American bad Russia good’?

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Sweet

[Sweet]

11 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

@Sweet,

 

Mr. Vance is referring to what has been of confidential communication with Ukraine / Mr. Zelenskyj, and Mr. Zelenskyjs attitude and behavior under these talks and negotiations without Mr. Zelenskyjs accept.

 

That is just such a no-go. Please remember here, I'm not accusing Mr. Vance of lying.

 

Mr. Vance has done the same with regard to communication with political leaders and representatives of NATO-allies, Mr. Vance saying 'they in public talk about we [the allies, John] will provide unlimited support to Ukraine', while when we talking with then on the phone with is totally different' [<- or something similar].

 

Again, that is just such a no-go. Please remember here, I'm not accusing Mr. Vance of lying.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

Mr. Vance is going to loose personal power and influence pretty fast, because gradually he'll experience, that noone want to talk to and with him about anything anylonger. I suppose anyone with practical experience in such such matters woulden't dare to provide some advice on that matter, like for Mr. Trump, because all with knowledge and experience on the matter in the currant administration are scared shitless from doing so.

Makes sense John.  I wonder how Trump views his interventions.  I can only guess.

[Gregmal]

24 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Yanukovych was overthrown by his own people James.  You think the 800,000 (peak) who occupied Kyiv were paid up actors by the Americans lol?

https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy
 

Whoops. Brought to you by the same people who claimed using Twitter accounts to advertise for a preferred candidate was an act of war lol 

[John Hjorth]

Just in case you diden't know it already. There exists actually wifi on Greenland :

 

jp.dk [March 4^th 2025] : Greenlandic parliamentarian sees a dramatic development: Now she warns her compatriots.

 

Subtitle :

 

Greenland's most experienced politician in parliament, Aaja Chemnitz, is concerned about her country's growing orientation towards Donald Trump's unpredictable United States. Now she has her own proposal to reverse the trend.

Edited 11 hours ago by John Hjorth

[Gregmal]

And all that was before we found out that Ukraine was a backdoor moneytrain for American politicians and their families/friends. 

[james22]

32 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Yanukovych was overthrown by his own people James.  

 

 

[james22]

And again.

 

[Gregmal]

Remember only the US is allowed to tell the story. Anything coming out of Russia must be discarded or taken as a lie. They are not entitled to have a side of the story, there is only one side. One choice. Good vs evil! 

[Sweet]

17 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy
 

Whoops. Brought to you by the same people who claimed using Twitter accounts to advertise for a preferred candidate was an act of war lol 

Nobody said the US didn’t interfere Greg, read the room.  You’d think you stop it with the self-owning by now.

The Nuland phone conversation is widely known and often the only thing brought up when interference is mentioned.
 

What I’m saying is that Russia interfered, yet that’s rarely brought up, and there’s rarely any outrage about it.  Hence the ‘American bad’ (when it does it) ‘Russia good’ (when it does it).

 

I’m also saying that US interference alone did not topple the government, it was a populist movement of Ukrainians.  Thus the paid actors comment.  The US can poke its nose in all it wants, but if it wasn’t for the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians on the street then the government would not have been disposed.

[Sweet]

9 minutes ago, james22 said:

And again.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Remember only the US is allowed to tell the story. Anything coming out of Russia must be discarded or taken as a lie. They are not entitled to have a side of the story, there is only one side. One choice. Good vs evil! 

You guys don’t seem to know this is common knowledge lol.

 

If you did you would be capable of reading my comment correctly rather than from ignorance.

[Gregmal]

Two neighbors have a disagreement. However one guy has a friend he went to college with whom lives 8 states away but is flush with money. Guy with rich friends starts blasting one side of the story all over town and throughout the region. Guy without rich friend is told he’s not allowed to have a side of the story, despite not even really saying too much to begin with, other than things he said prior to the dispute…

 

That’s basically what this has become.

[james22]

1 hour ago, John Hjorth said:

no-go

 

The two-faced should be called out.

 

That's the no-go.

 

(You can be polite in public and blunt in private, but your message better be consistent).

[Sweet]

10 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Two neighbors have a disagreement. However one guy has a friend he went to college with whom lives 8 states away but is flush with money. Guy with rich friends starts blasting one side of the story all over town and throughout the region. Guy without rich friend is told he’s not allowed to have a side of the story, despite not even really saying too much to begin with, other than things he said prior to the dispute…

 

That’s basically what this has become.

Are you talking about the war, of the disposition of the Ukrainian government in 2014?  I think I’m misreading you, so trying to understand.

[Sweet]

5 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

The two-faced should be called out.

 

That's the no-go.

 

(You can be polite in public and blunt in private, but your message better be consistent).

That’s totally not how Trump negotiates lol.

[james22]

12 minutes ago, Sweet said:

What I’m saying is that Russia interfered, yet that’s rarely brought up, and there’s rarely any outrage about it.  Hence the ‘American bad’ (when it does it) ‘Russia good’ (when it does it).

 

What I'm saying is that there are no innocents here.

 

But why waste time arguing 'Ukraine good' as justification for continued support?

 

Since it wouldn't matter even if they were.

 

Ukraine has already lost.

 

 

[cubsfan]

16 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

The two-faced should be called out.

 

That's the no-go.

 

(You can be polite in public and blunt in private, but your message better be consistent).

 

Absolutely - Trump is dumb like a fox. 

 

- He made it clear, no way he'll let this escalate to nuclear war

- He made it clear he's playing the role of peacemaker for both sides, with Zelensky resisting

- He wanted the American public to see, therefore they could make their own decision

- Lastly and brilliantly, he shook the European talkers to the core - they could back their desire for no peace with $$ and manpower.  All of a sudden - the money tree has magically appeared.

 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by cubsfan

[Sweet]

24 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

What I'm saying is that there are no innocents here.

 

But why waste time arguing 'Ukraine good' as justification for continued support?

 

Since it wouldn't matter even if they were.

 

Ukraine has already lost.

 

 

Regarding innocents - sure.

 

Regarding ‘good’ - you think Ukraine, its aspirations, values and its leaders aren’t any better than Russia / Putin?

[cubsfan]

7 hours ago, Sweet said:

 

Where I have a slight disagreement with you is that you don’t seem to believe Western values are worth promoting or defending.  You obviously benefit from these values by living in the US but you don’t seem to have much empathy for those who also want to live like you.  If I am wrong correct me.

 

America has learned an extremely painful lesson the last few decades: We can't change the world.

 

Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, now this.  Trying to instill democracy in certain countries is just doomed.

Afghanistan deserved to have the Taliban & Al Qaeda crushed. But we (America) fails in thinking their job is nation building. Completely failed. My thinking of course has changed from what I/we can actually accomplish.

 

As a country, the US needs to stick with it's strategic interests, but more important FIX our own country. We have a multitude of problems. As an example, we're likely to unleash huge resources on Mexico, as they are a narco-state that has done great damage to the USA.