Liberty Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 I'm not really sure how masks are a political issue. Its common sense, and low risk to just wear one. Given whats going on, its stupid not to, at least right now. What part of this involves politics? Exactly, it shouldn't involve politics at all, and it doesn't in other places, afaik. Just like the virus, it's a medical/scientific question. We should make the best decisions with the best data available at the time, the things with the highest probability of mitigating negative effects of the crisis because it's so incredibly expensive that even tiny improvements will be worth billions and save thousands of lives... But it has been politicized, just like the virus. When the most powerful, most visible person in the world spends weeks calling something a hoax perpetuated by his opponents to hurt him and downplays it (and then all his surrogates at Fox News amplify his message 24/7) and tweets in all caps LIBERATE and says "masks are totally optional, I won't wear one" and then doesn't wear one for weeks as his medical advisors clearly are wearing masks behind him, that makes it political, and it weakens greatly the call for citizens to wear masks. Which is stupid because it's such a low cost, effective way to help us reopen quicker and save lots of lives. In 10 days the whole Czec Republic made cloth masks and it helped a lot. Austria similarly, iirc, like pretty much all successful countries. But I'm pretty sure Trump tried one on, looked in the mirror and thought "that looks weak", so his narcissism is keeping him from doing the obviously correct thing.
Liberty Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 Pre-making decision, regardless of the facts in the future: "Trump says he won’t close the country if second wave of coronavirus hits" https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/trump-says-he-wont-close-the-country-if-second-wave-of-coronavirus-hits.html
Gregmal Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 If there is anyone who probably doesnt need to wear a mask, its probably folks who have secret service/security teams guarding them 24/7 as it is practically impossible for social distancing not to occur, especially if there is an effort to avoid shaking hands, which I dont know if that is the case or not. Either way, if some in the WH are doing this, great thats their choice. But its not really political and only becomes political because people try to label it as such. I live in a moderately right leaning but generally even split town. Everyone wears masks. The other day I stopped at a fish and hunting store to pick up some slip bobber ties. Place was run by the most red neck die hard Republicans you'll ever meet. Pretty sure the business was open despite not being essential. Whatever. Both husky pickup driving dudes had masks on. Trump can do something, and it doesnt have to automatically become standard for lefties to brandish that behavior as political and representative of "his base". I mean, infidelity certainly isn't exclusive to Republicans... Although I do agree, must be extremely psychologically difficult for true narcissists to wear the mask.
ERICOPOLY Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 He reportedly wore a mask inside of the Ford plant but would not allow any photographs to be taken because he didn't want the press to get them. It really is about ego. My wife makes this great voice of a child digging in and refusing to eat his green beans. "No, I won't do it and you can't make me because I... DON'T... WAN'T... TO!!".
ERICOPOLY Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 then doesn't wear one for weeks as his medical advisors clearly are wearing masks behind him, that makes it political Watch the scene again where Robert Duvall is standing tall while everyone around him is taking shelter and he's acting like a war isn't going on all around him and nothing is going to scratch him, and he wants to surf the beach. It's all showbusiness.
ERICOPOLY Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 If the "churches will be packed by Easter" appeared out of touch, this explains things very well. Imagine if your therapist worked with you for years on learning the tool of how to "think magically" to get you through hard times. Was it all taught? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-magical-thinking-on-coronavirus-is-rooted-in-the-teachings-of-this-famous-pastor/ar-BB14pONf
cwericb Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 One can understand the frustration of some with so much political discourse on this thread. But how do you separate out the political aspect of the fight against COVID-19 when the man in charge of the country has made himself a major part of any discussion on the virus by consistently minimizing its threat? By his ignoring his own health experts? By refusing to wear a mask and setting a poor example for the country? By admitting to taking a drug that health experts warn against and in fact, may deprive people in need that drug? Has not Trump made his politics and his personality a integral part of any discussion on COVID-19. Just a thought.
ERICOPOLY Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 Let's talk about Fairfax as an investment, but discussion of the CEO and how the CEO is managing the company is not permitted. How often is Elon Musk's mental state or alleged manipulation discussed on the TSLA thread? It isn't called 'politics' when we're trying to understand the man in charge of a corporation.
Investor20 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 Let's talk about Fairfax as an investment, but discussion of the CEO and how the CEO is managing the company is not permitted. How often is Elon Musk's mental state or alleged manipulation discussed on the TSLA thread? It isn't called 'politics' when we're trying to understand the man in charge of a corporation. SARS-1 happened in 2003 when (as per interview with Kim Woo-Joo) learnt of usefulness of masks with coronavirus.
Investor20 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.20101253v1 Twelve studies were identified with usable data to enter into calculations. Seroprevalence estimates ranged from 0.113% to 25.9% and adjusted seroprevalence estimates ranged from 0.309% to 33%. Infection fatality rates ranged from 0.03% to 0.50% and corrected values ranged from 0.02% to 0.40%. He seems to have left out Spain which had higher number but included 12 studies.
Liberty Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 Study of HCC in Lancet: https://marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620311806.pdf
Investor20 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 https://news.bloomberglaw.com/coronavirus/adding-zinc-to-malaria-drug-mix-may-help-covid-19-patients-heal Adding zinc to a cocktail of medicines touted by President Donald Trump may help Covid-19 patients survive and recover enough to be sent home from the hospital, according to researchers in New York City. A group of 411 patients given zinc along with the malaria medicine hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic azithromycin for five days were 44% less likely to die and 50% more likely to be discharged home than a comparison group of 521 patients who didn’t get the supplement.
Peregrine Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 CDC just came out with their new estimate for the infection fatality ratio (IFR) - 0.27%. Are we just dealing with something as deadly as the flu but since it's novel, it's far more easily spread?
ERICOPOLY Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 https://news.bloomberglaw.com/coronavirus/adding-zinc-to-malaria-drug-mix-may-help-covid-19-patients-heal Adding zinc to a cocktail of medicines touted by President Donald Trump may help Covid-19 patients survive and recover enough to be sent home from the hospital, according to researchers in New York City. A group of 411 patients given zinc along with the malaria medicine hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic azithromycin for five days were 44% less likely to die and 50% more likely to be discharged home than a comparison group of 521 patients who didn’t get the supplement. What would the numbers be for taking zinc by itself, or for the cocktail without adding the hydroxychloroquine? The study says patients treated with hydrochloroquine benefit from zinc, but perhaps a more important question is whether patients treated with zinc benefit from the potentially deadly hydrochloroquine?
cubsfan Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/cdc-coronavirus-mainly-spreads-through-persontoperson-contact-and-does-not-spread-easily-on-contaminated-surfaces-153317029.html CDC: Coronavirus mainly spreads through person-to-person contact and 'does not spread easily' on contaminated surfaces “Based on the epidemiology, we know that the main way this virus is infecting people is from direct contact with other infected people,” Adalja says. “Contaminated surfaces play some role, but it’s likely much smaller.” It also makes sense, too, he says: “This is a respiratory virus, and respiratory viruses largely spread through breathing in infected respiratory droplets.” The person to person contact can be minimized by not hugging, kissing, hand shaking, etc. The respiratory droplets breathing can be reduced by masks, giving safe distance and just being outside. All these can be done without shutting people in their homes. In Japan, the law wont let the government mandate shelter in place. So the government there had to request people to follow guidelines, and shut down schools. But still they could not mandate kids not to play outside. People who could afford to shut their shops did. People who couldnt afford to shut down ran their businesses with safeguards. That is a much better way to treat your citizens. But above two reasons given in the article for transmission, person-person contact, droplets can be controlled while working. https://time.com/5830612/japan-coronavirus-golden-week/ Why Many Japanese People Are Ignoring Their Government’s Pleas to Stay Home During a Major Holiday Break "Legally, the state of emergency can only involve requests for compliance. Violators face no penalties. There are few incentives to close shops." You actually think us Americans were mistreated? Was not sitting in restaurants and going to large gatherings too much to bear? The entitlement I've seen from my American brethren is shocking. Not willing to give up the smallest inconveniences to prevent mass death. More deaths in 2 months than the entire Vietnam War (and closing in on WWI) but wasn't allowed to sit at an AMC and eat popcorn. My belief in my fellow Americans has been severely damaged in this order. This is not the country that put a man on the moon anymore. I am asking to follow the system that got least deaths. Japan had 6 per million deaths, while US had 287 and UK 526 (worldometer) There are two new antibody study results announced Bronx had 40% Covid exposure Stockholm had 7% exposure Because you accused me of being irresponsible, can you remind which place had lockdown and which didn't? Shelter in place mandates are very expensive lifewise (I am not talking money) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-children-un-idUSKBN21Y2X7 U.N. warns economic downturn could kill hundreds of thousands of children in 2020 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-deaths-suicides-drugs-alcohol-pandemic-75000/ Coronavirus pandemic may lead to 75,000 "deaths of despair" from suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, study says I believe above suicide estimate is only for US. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/a-years-worth-of-suicide-attempts-in-the-last-four-weeks-california-doctor-calls-for-end-to-lockdown/ The doctor in charge of a Bay Area, Calif. trauma center said the state should end its lockdown orders after an “unprecedented” spike in suicide attempts amid the coronavirus pandemic. “We’ve never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of time,” Dr. Mike deBoisblanc, head of trauma at John Muir Medical Center, told local station ABC7. “I mean, we’ve seen a year’s worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks.” He added that he thinks “it’s time” to end the state shutdown.
ERICOPOLY Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 https://www.nationalreview.com/news/a-years-worth-of-suicide-attempts-in-the-last-four-weeks-california-doctor-calls-for-end-to-lockdown/ The doctor in charge of a Bay Area, Calif. trauma center said the state should end its lockdown orders after an “unprecedented” spike in suicide attempts amid the coronavirus pandemic. “We’ve never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of time,” Dr. Mike deBoisblanc, head of trauma at John Muir Medical Center, told local station ABC7. “I mean, we’ve seen a year’s worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks.” He added that he thinks “it’s time” to end the state shutdown. The article is based on one doctor's testimonial. There's no data at all. One person squashed by a UFO landing on his head would also be 'unprecedented'. What kind of numbers are we talking about here? Prior to COVID-19, there were more auto-accident fatalities than suicides in the US. I imagine that relationship has flipped and will revert when things open up again.
Investor20 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 https://news.bloomberglaw.com/coronavirus/adding-zinc-to-malaria-drug-mix-may-help-covid-19-patients-heal Adding zinc to a cocktail of medicines touted by President Donald Trump may help Covid-19 patients survive and recover enough to be sent home from the hospital, according to researchers in New York City. A group of 411 patients given zinc along with the malaria medicine hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic azithromycin for five days were 44% less likely to die and 50% more likely to be discharged home than a comparison group of 521 patients who didn’t get the supplement. What would the numbers be for taking zinc by itself, or for the cocktail without adding the hydroxychloroquine? The study says patients treated with hydrochloroquine benefit from zinc, but perhaps a more important question is whether patients treated with zinc benefit from the potentially deadly hydrochloroquine? Eric, the study is between Zinc, HCQ +Azithromycin vs HCQ+Azithromycin. The authors believe that HCQ helps zinc absorb and Zinc has antiviral properties. https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25658/20200512/hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-zinc-triple-combo-proved-effective-coronavirus-patients-study.htm In the study, half of 900 COVID-19 patients were given the triple-drug combo of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin. The other half were given only hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic, azithromycin.
Peregrine Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 https://www.nationalreview.com/news/a-years-worth-of-suicide-attempts-in-the-last-four-weeks-california-doctor-calls-for-end-to-lockdown/ The doctor in charge of a Bay Area, Calif. trauma center said the state should end its lockdown orders after an “unprecedented” spike in suicide attempts amid the coronavirus pandemic. “We’ve never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of time,” Dr. Mike deBoisblanc, head of trauma at John Muir Medical Center, told local station ABC7. “I mean, we’ve seen a year’s worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks.” He added that he thinks “it’s time” to end the state shutdown. The article is based on one doctor's testimonial. There's no data at all. One person squashed by a UFO landing on his head would also be 'unprecedented'. What kind of numbers are we talking about here? Prior to COVID-19, there were more auto-accident fatalities than suicides in the US. I imagine that relationship has flipped and will revert when things open up again. I wouldn't be surprised if the experience in that one hospital is fairly consistent in a lot of other places. And it's not just suicides, but there's been growing evidence of collateral damage in a lot of other areas in public health. Here are a few other examples: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/05/18/nation/major-boston-hospital-finds-dramatic-drop-stroke-heart-attack-cancer-patients-during-coronavirus-pandemic/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/22/who-routine-childhood-vaccinations-disrupted-coronavirus/?utm_content=buffer1f412&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter_organic
vikx01 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 Hydroxychloroquine isn't the wonder drug for covid-19 after all. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext
ERICOPOLY Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 The authors believe that HCQ helps zinc absorb I read the article to mean that they are putting that out there as a hypothetical possiblity, but there is nothing in the article about a belief. Look at the wording: He also suggested that hydroxychloroquine could serve as an agent that transports the zinc into the cells. It could also increase the effectiveness of zinc, he says. It isn't what they believe, at least not according to the sentence as written. Rather, it could do this... (or it could do that). The article also says: "Rahimian said that their next approach would be to do a prospective study to see if the research holds up in people receiving zinc. " So they are going to do what I suggested -- find out whether zinc by itself is even better.
Guest Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 For those that think governments should require masks in order to "save lives," do you also think the government should ban abortions to "save lives?" If not, why do you believe in "my body, my choice" for for one and not the other? The death rate on abortion (for the aborted humans) is far, far higher than the death rate from covid19.
ERICOPOLY Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 For those that think governments should require masks in order to "save lives," do you also think the government should ban abortions to "save lives?" If not, why do you believe in "my body, my choice" for for one and not the other? The death rate on abortion (for the aborted humans) is far, far higher than the death rate from covid19. LOL. How about ban cars? Why abortions? The ultimate political hijacking thwarted (I hope).
Guest Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 For those that think governments should require masks in order to "save lives," do you also think the government should ban abortions to "save lives?" If not, why do you believe in "my body, my choice" for for one and not the other? The death rate on abortion (for the aborted humans) is far, far higher than the death rate from covid19. LOL. How about ban cars? Why abortions? The ultimate political hijacking thwarted (I hope). Covid 19 has killed more than cars. Abortion has killed more than covid19. Keep in mind, my argument isn't just saving lives, it's also about what the government say we can (or cannot do) to our bodies. Why is it okay to use the slogan only when it benefits your political ideology?
ERICOPOLY Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 For those that think governments should require masks in order to "save lives," do you also think the government should ban abortions to "save lives?" If not, why do you believe in "my body, my choice" for for one and not the other? The death rate on abortion (for the aborted humans) is far, far higher than the death rate from covid19. LOL. How about ban cars? Why abortions? The ultimate political hijacking thwarted (I hope). Covid 19 has killed more than cars. Abortion has killed more than covid19. Start an abortion thread in politics.
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