If American - which presidential candidate will you vote for? (Oct. Edition)

[TwoCitiesCapital]

I think the problem isn't that there aren't going to be new jobs for humans that are displaced by technology - the problem is that technological change isn't happening on a linear scale. It's happening at the exponential scale and it's getting to the point where I think it's very probable that there will be larger lags between new jobs/opportunities opening up for a larger and larger number of people who get displaced.

 

We aren't creating new jobs as quickly as old ones are being automated precisely because we're automating at a much faster rate than we ever have before. It's the pace of technological innovations that is threatening - not the innovation itself.

 

 

[EliG]

Chris Sacca (a tech billionaire) trolls Peter Thiel:

 

 

"Hey @peterthiel, nice @nytimes piece about your $1.5 million donation to Trump. Is that to fund more of these stickers?"

 

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cu27Vp6VUAAVmbk.jpg:small

 

[Investor20]

If that is your rebuttal to my post, you failed to understand it. It was not about immigration.

 

The point is not to argue the effectiveness of one policy versus another either, but rather that you can only go so far with promoting policies with which great swathes of the population disagree. At least if you are going to keep some kind of democratic legitimacy.

 

Arguing for the "correct" policies is all fine, but implementing them against the people's will is neither smart nor democratic in spirit. Milton Friedman, despite being a staunch libertarian who wanted to repeal just about everything, understood this perfectly well half a century ago. I'm flummoxed by how educated people don't do it now.

 

The majority of people in the U.S. do not support: building a wall along the Mexican border, banning Muslim immigrants and refugees, and trade protectionism. You are misreading a vocal minority for a majority.

 

I don't think this is true.  Polls I have seen show a majority do favor protectionism over free trade.  You are right that majority may not favor the other two, but they are near 50/50.  Polls don't favor a wall along the whole border but that is not what has been proposed.  It is all about wording in polls.

 

I agree that the wording of the question matters but the polling that I've seen does not support that view.

 

"Free trade agreements between the U.S. and other countries have been a ___ for the United States" Good thing: 51%, Bad thing: 39%.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/03/31/republicans-especially-trump-supporters-see-free-trade-deals-as-bad-for-u-s/

 

"What do you think foreign trade means for America? Do you see foreign trade more as an opportunity for economic growth through increased U.S. exports or a threat to the economy from foreign imports?" Opportunity: 58%, Threat: 34%.

http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/190427/american-public-opinion-foreign-trade.aspx

 

"Which of the following statements come closer to what you think?" I think free trade with foreign countries is good for America because it opens up new markets and we cannot avoid the fact that it is a global economy: 55%, I think free trade with foreign countries is bad for America because it has hurt manufacturing and other key industries and there is no proof more trade creates better jobs: 38%.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-conventions/majority-voters-support-free-trade-immigration-poll-n611176

 

The question is between free trade vs fair trade.  If people are asked about fair trade, then I believe people would want that.  I posted this link earlier.

 

"U.S. companies lose about $250 billion per year through intellectual property theft, with another $114 billion lost due to cyber crime, a number that rises to $338 billion when the costs of down time due to crime are taken into account, said Alexander, the director of the National Security Agency and commander of U.S. Cyber Command, in remarks Monday at the American Enterprise Institute. " Emphasis in bold added.

 

http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/07/09/nsa-chief-cybercrime-constitutes-the-greatest-transfer-of-wealth-in-history/

 

When this is connected to jobs and wages, the country is united as noted here:

 

"Large majorities or pluralities favor policies protecting domestic jobs over lower prices, describe the North American Free Trade Agreement as being bad for the U.S., and even prefer a U.S. company building a nearby factory to employ 1,000 workers over a foreign -- in this instance Chinese -- owner that would hire twice as many."

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-03-24/free-trade-opposition-unites-political-parties-in-bloomberg-poll

 

My opinion and Trump said many times too.  It is not being against free trade or immigration.  It is that being done fair and legally respectively.

[DTEJD1997]

 

 

Cardboard

 

People need to be protected and uplifted in some way that gives them value, or you will get dangerous populist uprisings.  Isn't the purpose of a society and its economy to improve the lives of its citizens?  Or is it's purpose to create a few really wealthy people who live behind armed gates?  Call it leftist if you like but I prefer the world where more people are uplifted.

 

If you go to most universities these days it is very clear that the purpose of society is to enrich the few at the expense of the many.  What is so bitingly ironic is that the university is the bastion of "liberal" thought!  How does this happen? 

 

Look at the massive & exploding student loan situation.  Further, look at the terrible state of adjunct professors and teaching assistants.  How else will tenured profs and administration make $150k year while slaving away at 20 hour work weeks?

 

Or what about Obama care?  That is simply a transfer of wealth from the young to the old.  What else do you call $500 a month premiums & a $6k yearly deductible?  That isn't health insurance.  You are essentially self insured and paying huge taxes/penalties.

 

Or what about the screwed up property tax situation in parts of the country (Detroit area).  Taxes are so high, it ruins property and makes it unusable.

 

So yeah, society is currently set up to enrich the few and connected!

[Investor20]

The Great Brain Robbery

"costing U.S. corporations hundreds of billions of dollars and more than two million jobs"

 

John Carlin: They're targeting our private companies. And it's not a fair fight. A private company can't compete against the resources of the second largest economy in the world.

 

"This is a serious threat to our national security," says John Carlin, the assistant attorney general for national security. "Our economy depends on the ability to innovate and if there's a dedicated nation state who's using its intelligence apparatus to steal...what we're trying to develop, that poses a serious threat to our country."

 

John Carlin is the assistant attorney general for National Security with responsibility for counterterrorism, cyberattacks and increasingly economic espionage.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-great-brain-robbery-china-cyber-espionage/

Transcript above link.  You can also watch previews or google and watch video.

 

Being against trade and being against unfair trade are different.

[Liberty]

"Researcher says some Trump company email servers use unpatched, end-of-life software, including Windows Server 2003, and only use single factor authentication"

 

In what might be one of the more delicious cases of irony to ever grace a presidential election, a researcher has found that a number of email servers linked to Donald Trump’s hotel and others businesses are running horribly out of date software which receive no security patches, and are lacking other precautions for keeping hackers out.

 

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/trump-is-running-some-really-insecure-email-servers

[vox]

1. The Bloomberg poll only reinforces the fact that wording matters. Their wording of the questions were "Turning now to trade, generally speaking, do you think U.S. trade policy should have more restrictions on imported foreign goods to protect American jobs, or have fewer restrictions to enable American consumers to have the most choices and the lowest prices?" and "Are you willing to pay a little more for merchandise that is made in the U.S., or do you prefer the lowest possible price?"

 

There are many problems here. The main ones are that the poll is comparing a concrete job loss versus an indeterminate price hike, and that people have a bias to respond in a more altruistic manner when in reality that doesn't align with their behavior. 

 

2. Fair trade refers to a separate practice in which producers in developing countries are paid higher prices to promote development and sustainability. Sorry, but that phrase is already taken.

 

3. Donald Trump's corporate espionage and cyber security plan does not differ from Hillary Clinton's plan other than that he wants to escalate and use offensive cyber attacks. This doesn't seem like a great idea when the U.S. has the most intellectual property to lose in a cyber war.

[rkbabang]

1. The Bloomberg poll only reinforces the fact that wording matters. Their wording of the questions were "Turning now to trade, generally speaking, do you think U.S. trade policy should have more restrictions on imported foreign goods to protect American jobs, or have fewer restrictions to enable American consumers to have the most choices and the lowest prices?" and "Are you willing to pay a little more for merchandise that is made in the U.S., or do you prefer the lowest possible price?"

 

There are many problems here. The main ones are that the poll is comparing a concrete job loss versus an indeterminate price hike, and that people have a bias to respond in a more altruistic manner when in reality that doesn't align with their behavior. 

 

2. Fair trade refers to a separate practice in which producers in developing countries are paid higher prices to promote development and sustainability. Sorry, but that phrase is already taken.

 

3. Donald Trump's corporate espionage and cyber security plan does not differ from Hillary Clinton's plan other than that he wants to escalate and use offensive cyber attacks. This doesn't seem like a great idea when the U.S. has the most intellectual property to lose in a cyber war.

 

So what's your feeling about Vice President Biden openly threatening Russia with massive cyber attacks?  Good diplomacy?  Okay, but only because he's a democrat?  I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

 

BTW. Biden is a sitting Vice President making an open, immediate, and credible threat to another nation, not just someone running for office spewing nonsense as they all do when campaigning.

 

 

EDIT:  Some background.  Since the American press doesn't seem to want to report much on these issues.

 

Biden Threatens Cyberwar With Russia, Kremlin Vows To Protect Itself

 

My post earlier in this thread asking why Hillary and Obama are so keen on provoking a war, even nuclear war, with Russia (still unanswered BTW)

 

[Liberty]

;D

 

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Or light encouragement from Billy Bush. That also works.

 

https://twitter.com/meganganz/status/788602615848370177

[Investor20]

1. The Bloomberg poll only reinforces the fact that wording matters. Their wording of the questions were "Turning now to trade, generally speaking, do you think U.S. trade policy should have more restrictions on imported foreign goods to protect American jobs, or have fewer restrictions to enable American consumers to have the most choices and the lowest prices?" and "Are you willing to pay a little more for merchandise that is made in the U.S., or do you prefer the lowest possible price?"

 

There are many problems here. The main ones are that the poll is comparing a concrete job loss versus an indeterminate price hike, and that people have a bias to respond in a more altruistic manner when in reality that doesn't align with their behavior. 

 

2. Fair trade refers to a separate practice in which producers in developing countries are paid higher prices to promote development and sustainability. Sorry, but that phrase is already taken.

 

3. Donald Trump's corporate espionage and cyber security plan does not differ from Hillary Clinton's plan other than that he wants to escalate and use offensive cyber attacks. This doesn't seem like a great idea when the U.S. has the most intellectual property to lose in a cyber war.

 

So what's your feeling about Vice President Biden openly threatening Russia with massive cyber attacks?  Good diplomacy?  Okay, but only because he's a democrat?  I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

 

BTW. Biden is a sitting Vice President making an open, immediate, and credible threat to another nation, not just someone running for office spewing nonsense as they all do when campaigning.

 

 

EDIT:  Some background.  Since the American press doesn't seem to want to report much on these issues.

 

Biden Threatens Cyberwar With Russia, Kremlin Vows To Protect Itself

 

My post earlier in this thread asking why Hillary and Obama are so keen on provoking a war, even nuclear war, with Russia (still unanswered BTW)

 

OK, if a poll does not support your thinking, there is something wrong with it. Bloomberg poll gives 2/3 united in the trade issue across parties. HC dream of open trade is a minority.

 

Fair trade means, people won't steal and pay for the goods/services.

 

Trump proposal is to use Tariffs.

[Cardboard]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Or light encouragement from Billy Bush. That also works."

 

You should be really proud that the bigger evil will triumph or a corrupt individual with lack of judgment and the one obsessed with access to the nuclear codes. A war monger, provoker of Russia and China who could likely end all life on Earth.

 

Vs the buffoon and narcissist who will likely offend a bunch of people but, not kill any.

 

Cardboard

[rkbabang]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Or light encouragement from Billy Bush. That also works."

 

You should be really proud that the bigger evil will triumph or a corrupt individual with lack of judgment and the one obsessed with access to the nuclear codes. A war monger, provoker of Russia and China who could likely end all life on Earth.

 

Vs the buffoon and narcissist who will likely offend a bunch of people but, not kill any.

 

Cardboard

 

To be fair he'll likely kill anywhere from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands just like his last 4 or 5 predecessors.  I don't see him talking about ending the bombings and bringing all of the troops home.  I just don't think he is likely to be any worse than his predecessors when it comes to war, but best case he may be slightly better than some of them.  Obama has been a huge disappointment to anyone who cares about peace (even a little bit).  Hillary on the other hand will be an unmitigated disaster on a global scale.  The best we can hope for is all out war in the middle east and a new cold war with Russia (nuclear arms race included).  The worst case would be the end of humanity (along with most of the other complex/large lifeforms on the planet).  The cockroaches will inherit the Earth.

 

[Cardboard]

Very fair point Rkbabang. I am just really tired of people who see evil in one but, not in the other because they are not in their party.

 

The Nazis (SS) used to say that once you have killed 10, 100 does not feel so bad. Then 1,000, and on and on.

 

So Hillary is already much further along than Trump in her insensitivity of human life. She has ordered the disposition of dictators knowing full well the consequences.

 

But, yes he will likely order the killing of quite a few like his predecessors.

 

Cardboard

[LongHaul]

Interesting read.  Some good points about Trump and and patterns in history. 

 

https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/history-tells-us-what-will-happen-next-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.2m7ww4y57

[Cardboard]

It is like this Michelle Obama who is so offended by Trump's comments on women and her poor daughters but, she won't hesitate letting Malia spend some quality time backstage with Bryson Tiller... Such a nice guy. Never used the N word or other diminishing women language... When they go low you go high. Yeah right!

 

By the way, where are the court complaints from these 9 accusers?

 

Cardboard

[rkbabang]

Interesting read.  Some good points about Trump and and patterns in history. 

 

https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/history-tells-us-what-will-happen-next-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.2m7ww4y57

 

I read this, agree with every single word of it, and then ask myself how the hell is Hillary any better?  How does the author not realize that when it comes to human regression, war, and destruction that Hillary will be Trump X 100?  In fact you could do a search and replace in that article "Hillary" for "Trump" and not only would it still be a valid article, but much, much, more so.  This moral posturing by the left, while ignoring the warmonger in their midst is really unbelievable to see.  The cognitive dissonance needed to pull this off in one's mind is astounding.

 

[Cardboard]

You are exactly right Rkbabang and what about Obama who still has 3 months in office?

 

Wasn't he the saviour when he came to power. The one who would unite us. The Hope and Change agent. Doesn't sound like a populist? The most open government ever???

 

Cardboard

[rkbabang]

You are exactly right Rkbabang and what about Obama who still has 3 months in office?

 

Wasn't he the saviour when he came to power. The one who would unite us. The Hope and Change agent. Doesn't sound like a populist? The most open government ever???

 

Cardboard

 

It is the most open government ever...due to wikileaks, not Obama.

 

[vox]

OK, if a poll does not support your thinking, there is something wrong with it. Bloomberg poll gives 2/3 united in the trade issue across parties. HC dream of open trade is a minority.

 

Fair trade means, people won't steal and pay for the goods/services.

 

Trump proposal is to use Tariffs.

 

Trump has never proposed using tariffs as a response to corporate espionage or cyber attacks. His suggestion of implementing tariffs is based on making American companies more cost competitive with their foreign counterparts. Tariffs are a completely inappropriate policy response to intellectual property theft. First, the perpetrator and sponsor of the crime is often unclear. Second, the purpose of IP theft is almost never reselling that product or service internationally, it's to consume the product if it's digital media, or to sell domestically if it's a knock-off, or to improve a company's own capabilities if it's a trade secret or industrial design, or to commit financial fraud if it's sensitive personal data.

 

Here are Donald Trump's actual remarks on cybersecurity: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-remarks-on-cybersecurity

[vox]

So what's your feeling about Vice President Biden openly threatening Russia with massive cyber attacks?  Good diplomacy?  Okay, but only because he's a democrat?  I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

 

BTW. Biden is a sitting Vice President making an open, immediate, and credible threat to another nation, not just someone running for office spewing nonsense as they all do when campaigning.

 

 

EDIT:  Some background.  Since the American press doesn't seem to want to report much on these issues.

 

Biden Threatens Cyberwar With Russia, Kremlin Vows To Protect Itself

 

My post earlier in this thread asking why Hillary and Obama are so keen on provoking a war, even nuclear war, with Russia (still unanswered BTW)

From what I've read, the U.S. response will be limited to leaking documents on the financial arrangements of the Russian political elite and oligarchs, and providing tools to combat Russia's internet censorship.

[Cardboard]

Regarding this so called student of history, he failed miserably to identify the cause of Brexit. What about overthrowing Khadafi from power then trying the same with Assad? Didn't that cause war and mass migration, imbalance in European affairs and eventually a British population wanting more control over its borders?

 

Then who supported an uprising and a "right" wing government in Ukraine to use his terms which has lead to Russian invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine?

 

All of this wasn't the work of Trump nor Boris Johnson.

 

Cardboard

[Liberty]

https://newrepublic.com/article/137897/donald-trump-cant-stand-losing-girl

[Peregrine]

It is like this Michelle Obama who is so offended by Trump's comments on women and her poor daughters but, she won't hesitate letting Malia spend some quality time backstage with Bryson Tiller... Such a nice guy. Never used the N word or other diminishing women language... When they go low you go high. Yeah right!

 

By the way, where are the court complaints from these 9 accusers?

 

Cardboard

 

Cardboard, you seem rather incapable of viewing things in its appropriate contexts.

[vox]

Hillary on the other hand will be an unmitigated disaster on a global scale.  The best we can hope for is all out war in the middle east and a new cold war with Russia (nuclear arms race included).  The worst case would be the end of humanity (along with most of the other complex/large lifeforms on the planet).  The cockroaches will inherit the Earth.

 

Out of curiosity, do you actually live and invest based on this forecast? Considering that Hillary Clinton has a 90% (+/- 10%) chance of winning the election, are you choosing to spend your savings because death is imminent or scoping out for a fallout shelter to survive the post-apocalyptic wasteland?

[Liberty]

Modest Proposal on Twitter:

 

Chris Rock's joke is when you hear people yelling about illegal immigrants, blacks and jews are next. Train arrived.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/19/us/politics/anti-semitism-trump-supporters-twitter.html