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If American - which presidential candidate will you vote for? (Oct. Edition)


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Why would such a question be not about facts?

 

To me it tells me HC just does not understand investment process, at least the Buffett type.  You are supposed to hold or even buy more when it goes down and sell when it goes up, but this prevents such a process. If something is overpriced after holding for 3 years, why should that person be prevented from selling it?

 

Buffett had hundreds of stocks during his 13 year partnership which works out to much shorter than 6 years of holding period.  Even if you consider earlier Berkshire investments, it turns out much lower.  Here is one study:

 

"The median holding period is one year, with approximately 20% (30%) of stocks held for more than two years (less than six months)." of Berkshire holdings.

 

https://www.cxoadvisory.com/7307/animal-spirits/why-dont-we-all-just-do-what-warren-buffett-does/

Ok, my judgement regarding your facts affinity was from other posts you made, not your question. If my judgement was wrong I apologize.

 

Let's dive into this. Firstly, that link you posted with the is nonsense. They measure turnover at BRK by number of names not by value of the portfolio. So basically if a manager a Geico buys 1,000 shares of xyz as a tracker and then sells it next year they count it as turnover at BRK like they moved out of their WFC position which is ridiculous.

 

Secondly, yes Buffett was much more of a speculator in his youth. He moved out of that later on.

 

Thirdly, the capital gains tax benefit is in the tax code to stimulate primary investment such as capital injection in business for expansion, entrepreneurship, etc. which is inherently long term. It wasn't meant to provide a benefit to secondary investment such as stock market speculation which is what you're talking about.

 

Fourthly, I don't see how this your point that she doesn't understand the investment process. Real investment which is primary investment is inherently long term. Secondary investment (stock market) is relevant in it's two primary purposes: liquidity and price discovery. As I mentioned in my previous post I don't see how this hurts either of those two purposes and you haven't provided any arguments.

 

Fifthly, would I as a secondary investor prefer more idiots in the market as opposed to more of the Buffett the elder? Oh yea! Is it better for society to have more Buffett the elder in the markets? Oh yea! Given the choices I'd go with the better for society option and I'll sharpen my pencil a little more.

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If you guys are talking cap gains taxes, you also should remember that for majority of Americans majority of investments would be held in tax deferred accounts, which pay no taxes. Very few Americans have enough money to save more than the 401(k)+IRA limit per year. Most don't save even that.

 

Also, as we all know most investors don't outperform indexes. Even most CoBF investors don't outperform indexes. If we add cap gains taxes, I'd guess pretty much nobody outperforms indexes (which are naturally tax efficient to hold) - unless they buy and hold pretty much forever.

 

So really if you have to invest in taxable account, just buy index fund or something that you can hold forever, whether cap gains are taxed at 15% or 25% or whatever. You'll likely end up winning.

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(And one of the nice things about onyx's unreasonableness is that he can claim that everyone is like that, including him.  It nicely avoids any sort of cognitive dissonance, enabling him to justify anything and feel good about himself, while still believing that people should take him seriously.  I think it's pretty neat.)

 

"I think it's wrong but everyone else is doing it, so it's really OK".

 

Wacky shit right here, folks.

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Could it be that in politics........ [wait for it] ................ facts don't matter?

 

Of course facts matter. Perception matters, too.

 

On a side note, I can't wait for this damn election to be over. Silliness cranked up to eleven, even on COBF.

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LC, I fully agree with you. If we could get this election done today and move on it would be great! However, I think you better hang on to your hat cause you ain't seen nothing yet. I think Trump is just figuring out that he can't win and just like a toddler who can't have a toy he's gonna throw a massive fit only this one will be of global proportions. He'll spew his hatred everywhere like a fire hydrant. He has a microphone and he'll use to make everything ugly. We'll just have to brace 20 some more days like this and then we can all take a long shower and move on. Ugh!

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LC, I fully agree with you. If we could get this election done today and move on it would be great! However, I think you better hang on to your hat cause you ain't seen nothing yet. I think Trump is just figuring out that he can't win and just like a toddler who can't have a toy he's gonna throw a massive fit only this one will be of global proportions. He'll spew his hatred everywhere like a fire hydrant. He has a microphone and he'll use to make everything ugly. We'll just have to brace 20 some more days like this and then we can all take a long shower and move on. Ugh!

 

While I would like that to be true, I don't think it is. There's a large group of angry people out there, disappointed with politics, immigration, growing income disparity and angry about Wall Street and job losses due to technology changes and competition from China. These people are not going to think in four years: "well, we tried Trump, that didn't work out, let's get back to Jeb Bush.". They hate Jeb Bush almost as much as Hillary Clinton because they both represent 'the elite'. Both parties, but especially the Republicans, have grown completely out of synch with their voter base. Their leaders are living on a completely different planet than, for example, a fired coal miner in Virginia. The Bern and Trump are symptons of this problem, not a one-off event. Chris Arnade has written a couple of nice articles about this.

 

This is not only true for the USA. A similar thing is happening in most developed countries (UK: Brexit & UKIP, France: Le Pen, Germany: Pegina, the Netherlands: Wilders, Italy: Beppe Grillo, Austria: Freedom Party). I'm certainly no expert on politics but I think that globalisation, immigration and growing inequality are serious issues that is not going away in a few years and there will be more demagogues who will try to take advantage of this.

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It explains nicely so many people don't seem to be acting rationally, and why the core of Trump's base is the racists, the violent, and the misogynists.  This election might not be the battle of the sexes, the war of the corrupt, or the maverick vs. the establishment.  It might actually be the fight between the reasonable and the unreasonable.

 

Suggesting that there is only one way to view the world (yours!) would strike most as elitist.  I see it as the creepy-clown of arguments.

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It explains nicely so many people don't seem to be acting rationally, and why the core of Trump's base is the racists, the violent, and the misogynists.  This election might not be the battle of the sexes, the war of the corrupt, or the maverick vs. the establishment.  It might actually be the fight between the reasonable and the unreasonable.

 

Suggesting that there is only one way to view the world (yours!) would strike most as elitist.  I see it as the creepy-clown of arguments.

Some people might want to read a book to learn some empathy for people in different situations. I suggest Coming Apart by Charles Murray.

 

Or try this: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/do-you-live-in-a-bubble-a-quiz-2/

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LC, I fully agree with you. If we could get this election done today and move on it would be great! However, I think you better hang on to your hat cause you ain't seen nothing yet. I think Trump is just figuring out that he can't win and just like a toddler who can't have a toy he's gonna throw a massive fit only this one will be of global proportions. He'll spew his hatred everywhere like a fire hydrant. He has a microphone and he'll use to make everything ugly. We'll just have to brace 20 some more days like this and then we can all take a long shower and move on. Ugh!

 

While I would like that to be true, I don't think it is. There's a large group of angry people out there, disappointed with politics, immigration, growing income disparity and angry about Wall Street and job losses due to technology changes and competition from China. These people are not going to think in four years: "well, we tried Trump, that didn't work out, let's get back to Jeb Bush.". They hate Jeb Bush almost as much as Hillary Clinton because they both represent 'the elite'. Both parties, but especially the Republicans, have grown completely out of synch with their voter base. Their leaders are living on a completely different planet than, for example, a fired coal miner in Virginia. The Bern and Trump are symptons of this problem, not a one-off event. Chris Arnade has written a couple of nice articles about this.

 

This is not only true for the USA. A similar thing is happening in most developed countries (UK: Brexit & UKIP, France: Le Pen, Germany: Pegina, the Netherlands: Wilders, Italy: Beppe Grillo, Austria: Freedom Party). I'm certainly no expert on politics but I think that globalisation, immigration and growing inequality are serious issues that is not going away in a few years and there will be more demagogues who will try to take advantage of this.

 

There is also a contingent of people who are MAD and think (rightly or wrongly) that they have been BETRAYED.  For example, I am an attorney and work with other attorneys.  I work with people aged 29-70+.  The young attorneys are USUALLY in bad, bad spots.  Their lives are not good.  There are two problems. 

 

A). The amount of debt they have is simply staggering.  Most of them have $100k+ in student loans.  A decent percentage have student loans of $200k+.  If the younger attorney is not married, the odds are they still live at home with their parents OR live with roommates.  They simply can't afford to live on their own.

 

B). While employed as attorney I make a VERY modest hourly rate.  This is especially so when considering the amount of education and training that I have.  I work on massive cases, preparing for trial.  Never go to trial, just help in the preparation.  It is 95%+ of the time incredibly boring and tedious work.  That is putting it mildly.  In fact, a lot of people simply can't hack it, it is so tedious...

 

I am doing this work simply to rebuild my bankroll and hope to soon leave law forever behind.  I have something to fall back on.  Most of my associates have completely useless undergraduate degrees (History, English, Journalism, Political Science, Philosophy).  These things ain't worth the paper they are printed on.  They ain't getting any job in their undergraduate field.

 

I work with people who graduated all the way from Cooley (low ranked) to University of Michigan and Duke (high ranked).

 

Jobs are scarce in the legal field.  A good percentage of jobs that DO exist, simply don't pay well.  I have heard stories of attorneys that worked insurance defense, bankruptcy, low level criminal work, family law, that gave it all up to work the "big money" prepping for lawsuits.  They left jobs that paid $9-$10 an hour when you consider the hours they had to work (salary of $30k, 3k+ hours a year).  I am simply amazed at the stories I hear.

 

So you've got these moderately intelligent, highly educated, hard working people that have no way out.  They most likely will not advance in their profession, they can't make enough to pay back their student loans.  They were lied to by the educators.  Many of them feel tricked and are hopeless and depressed.  I know several that are on anti-depressant medication.

 

Several are going to vote for Hillary, as they think she will do something to alleviate student loan debt.

 

Others I know are going to vote for Trump.  They simply can't stand Hillary.  She is "disgusting waste of human flesh" as one attorney put it...But more importantly, they think they have a "chance" with Trump.  As one Trump supporter put it to me, I have almost ZERO percent chance of things getting better with Hillary.  I am far, far, behind the "eight ball".  My life is in tatters.  I have a CHANCE with Trump.  It might be 20% or 30%...but I'm going to take it.  If things "blow up" so what?  I'm already in a dire situation, if the elite take a fall, so much the better.  Maybe things get better...

 

So there you go!  This is coming from attorneys.  I am going to suggest that the amount of people who are in bad situations and hoping for change is simply staggering in this country.

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LC, I fully agree with you. If we could get this election done today and move on it would be great! However, I think you better hang on to your hat cause you ain't seen nothing yet. I think Trump is just figuring out that he can't win and just like a toddler who can't have a toy he's gonna throw a massive fit only this one will be of global proportions. He'll spew his hatred everywhere like a fire hydrant. He has a microphone and he'll use to make everything ugly. We'll just have to brace 20 some more days like this and then we can all take a long shower and move on. Ugh!

 

While I would like that to be true, I don't think it is. There's a large group of angry people out there, disappointed with politics, immigration, growing income disparity and angry about Wall Street and job losses due to technology changes and competition from China. These people are not going to think in four years: "well, we tried Trump, that didn't work out, let's get back to Jeb Bush.". They hate Jeb Bush almost as much as Hillary Clinton because they both represent 'the elite'. Both parties, but especially the Republicans, have grown completely out of synch with their voter base. Their leaders are living on a completely different planet than, for example, a fired coal miner in Virginia. The Bern and Trump are symptons of this problem, not a one-off event. Chris Arnade has written a couple of nice articles about this.

 

This is not only true for the USA. A similar thing is happening in most developed countries (UK: Brexit & UKIP, France: Le Pen, Germany: Pegina, the Netherlands: Wilders, Italy: Beppe Grillo, Austria: Freedom Party). I'm certainly no expert on politics but I think that globalisation, immigration and growing inequality are serious issues that is not going away in a few years and there will be more demagogues who will try to take advantage of this.

 

There is also a contingent of people who are MAD and think (rightly or wrongly) that they have been BETRAYED.  For example, I am an attorney and work with other attorneys.  I work with people aged 29-70+.  The young attorneys are USUALLY in bad, bad spots.  Their lives are not good.  There are two problems. 

 

A). The amount of debt they have is simply staggering.  Most of them have $100k+ in student loans.  A decent percentage have student loans of $200k+.  If the younger attorney is not married, the odds are they still live at home with their parents OR live with roommates.  They simply can't afford to live on their own.

 

B). While employed as attorney I make a VERY modest hourly rate.  This is especially so when considering the amount of education and training that I have.  I work on massive cases, preparing for trial.  Never go to trial, just help in the preparation.  It is 95%+ of the time incredibly boring and tedious work.  That is putting it mildly.  In fact, a lot of people simply can't hack it, it is so tedious...

 

I am doing this work simply to rebuild my bankroll and hope to soon leave law forever behind.  I have something to fall back on.  Most of my associates have completely useless undergraduate degrees (History, English, Journalism, Political Science, Philosophy).  These things ain't worth the paper they are printed on.  They ain't getting any job in their undergraduate field.

 

I work with people who graduated all the way from Cooley (low ranked) to University of Michigan and Duke (high ranked).

 

Jobs are scarce in the legal field.  A good percentage of jobs that DO exist, simply don't pay well.  I have heard stories of attorneys that worked insurance defense, bankruptcy, low level criminal work, family law, that gave it all up to work the "big money" prepping for lawsuits.  They left jobs that paid $9-$10 an hour when you consider the hours they had to work (salary of $30k, 3k+ hours a year).  I am simply amazed at the stories I hear.

 

So you've got these moderately intelligent, highly educated, hard working people that have no way out.  They most likely will not advance in their profession, they can't make enough to pay back their student loans.  They were lied to by the educators.  Many of them feel tricked and are hopeless and depressed.  I know several that are on anti-depressant medication.

 

Several are going to vote for Hillary, as they think she will do something to alleviate student loan debt.

 

Others I know are going to vote for Trump.  They simply can't stand Hillary.  She is "disgusting waste of human flesh" as one attorney put it...But more importantly, they think they have a "chance" with Trump.  As one Trump supporter put it to me, I have almost ZERO percent chance of things getting better with Hillary.  I am far, far, behind the "eight ball".  My life is in tatters.  I have a CHANCE with Trump.  It might be 20% or 30%...but I'm going to take it.  If things "blow up" so what?  I'm already in a dire situation, if the elite take a fall, so much the better.  Maybe things get better...

 

So there you go!  This is coming from attorneys.  I am going to suggest that the amount of people who are in bad situations and hoping for change is simply staggering in this country.

 

One part of the debate that struck me in Trump - HC debate is his repeated question - what were you (I heard it as about all politicians - not just HC) doing for last 30 years?

 

Look at the data (these guys want facts!).

The median real wages in 1979 is 335$

The median real wages in 2016 is 345$

 

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q

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Fourthly, I don't see how this your point that she doesn't understand the investment process. Real investment which is primary investment is inherently long term.

 

.........

 

Fifthly, would I as a secondary investor prefer more idiots in the market as opposed to more of the Buffett the elder? Oh yea! Is it better for society to have more Buffett the elder in the markets? Oh yea! Given the choices I'd go with the better for society option and I'll sharpen my pencil a little more.

 

Buffett moved on to long term as he grew older only because he had to invest larger sums which does not let him invest in smaller companies - NOT because it is better. Buffett himself said "A fat wallet is the enemy of superior investment results".

 

Buffett with smaller amounts will not be doing what the Buffett the elder does. Why should we?

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I'm certainly no expert on politics but I think that globalisation, immigration and growing inequality are serious issues

 

IMO there's only one issue people really care out of three above: growing inequality. If this was solved - not easy, but if - the globalization and immigration backlash would go to the fringes at most. Same with racism and nationalism. People hate immigrants and foreign products mostly because they feel they are poor and immigrants take their jobs/wages/etc. This happens much less if society is prosperous. (And we could argue that Europe really needs immigrants with its aging and declining population, but try to tell this to Europeans right now...)

 

Unfortunately, you might be right that situation won't improve and we will continue to have the demagogues running the racist, nationalist and possibly authoritarian tickets. We can only hope that Europe doesn't get too many of such elected. I'm more optimistic about US for now - situation here is IMO is better (even with Trump candidacy), the society more diverse, more multicultural and more accepting (even with the anti-Mexican and anti-Muslim rhetoric).

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Richard, I tried to raise couple of times the issue of Hillary proposal of redefining short term capital gains to 6 years.  I would not get one response.  Why is that on a forum for investors?

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/clinton-to-propose-rise-in-capital-gains-taxes-on-short-term-investments-1437747732

 

Fair point, Investor.  I'm not sure if an increase in the duration for capital gains to be considered short term is a good thing for society or not.  For me personally, it would be a slightly bad thing, so I'm mildly opposed, but I'm willing to be convinced.

 

That said, to me, this issue is pretty minor compared to the bigger issues.  It's akin to saying, "Last time we hired that babysitter, she forgot to brush the kids' teeth.  So we should hire Jeffrey Dahmer this time instead."

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It explains nicely so many people don't seem to be acting rationally, and why the core of Trump's base is the racists, the violent, and the misogynists.  This election might not be the battle of the sexes, the war of the corrupt, or the maverick vs. the establishment.  It might actually be the fight between the reasonable and the unreasonable.

 

Suggesting that there is only one way to view the world (yours!) would strike most as elitist.  I see it as the creepy-clown of arguments.

 

Sorry, I'm confused now. I thought that I was representing your view accurately.  Didn't you say that you aren't rational when it comes to politics, and--what's more--there's only one way people view politics--irrationally?  Or are you just trying to say that your own views are creepy-clown?

 

That said, one of the great things about your "I'm not rational" position--one of the things I admire the most about it--is that you're totally within your rights to claim, "X is true", and then a day later say, "X is not true" and not feel any sense of contradiction.  It reminds me of O'Brian in 1984, a brilliant concept for a character, IMO.

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One part of the debate that struck me in Trump - HC debate is his repeated question - what were you (I heard it as about all politicians - not just HC) doing for last 30 years?

 

Look at the data (these guys want facts!).

The median real wages in 1979 is 335$

The median real wages in 2016 is 345$

 

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q

Some fields, like the legal field, have had a COLLAPSE in wages.  Sure, the top 10% of attorneys are making some good wages, but the for the bottom half, the bottom has fallen out.

 

Here is a good example!  Who is the lowest paid employee in the Boston Courts?

 

The janitor?  heck no!  They are union members and get PAID!

 

It is the attorneys in the public defenders of course!  Please see:

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/05/21/indefensible/23OMcEGsJe1151YT0Q43PJ/story.html

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It explains nicely so many people don't seem to be acting rationally, and why the core of Trump's base is the racists, the violent, and the misogynists.  This election might not be the battle of the sexes, the war of the corrupt, or the maverick vs. the establishment.  It might actually be the fight between the reasonable and the unreasonable.

 

Suggesting that there is only one way to view the world (yours!) would strike most as elitist.  I see it as the creepy-clown of arguments.

 

Sorry, I'm confused now. I thought that I was representing your view accurately.  Didn't you say that you aren't rational when it comes to politics, and--what's more--there's only one way people view politics--irrationally?  Or are you just trying to say that your own views are creepy-clown?

 

You were, but he's irrational, so you weren't.

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Some people might want to read a book to learn some empathy for people in different situations. I suggest Coming Apart by Charles Murray.

 

Or try this: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/do-you-live-in-a-bubble-a-quiz-2/

 

Cool quiz.  I got 35, and "A first-generation upper-middle-class person with middle-class parents" essentially describes me. 

 

(That said, the quiz might be a bit inaccurate for me, since I'm Canadian, and on average we're richer, we have a less skewed income distribution, we have better social mobility, we have far fewer people per capita in prison, and we're better educated on average.  Thus, there's a good chance that the average Canadian will skew toward "living in a bubble" according to this quiz.)

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One more victim coming forward:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/woman-says-trump-reached-under-her-skirt-and-groped-her-in-early-1990s/2016/10/14/67e8ff5e-917d-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html

 

Considering the typical ratio of people who stay silent when these things happen ("Why do they stay silent?", ask Trump fans as they try to destroy the lives of the accusers), I wonder how many hundreds there actually are. He seems to have been operating like this for a few decades..

 

"Who you going to believe, women who claim they were groped, or a man who says he gropes women? It's a real "he & she both said" situation."

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It explains nicely so many people don't seem to be acting rationally, and why the core of Trump's base is the racists, the violent, and the misogynists.  This election might not be the battle of the sexes, the war of the corrupt, or the maverick vs. the establishment.  It might actually be the fight between the reasonable and the unreasonable.

 

Suggesting that there is only one way to view the world (yours!) would strike most as elitist.  I see it as the creepy-clown of arguments.

 

Sorry, I'm confused now. I thought that I was representing your view accurately.  Didn't you say that you aren't rational when it comes to politics, and--what's more--there's only one way people view politics--irrationally?  Or are you just trying to say that your own views are creepy-clown?

 

That said, one of the great things about your "I'm not rational" position--one of the things I admire the most about it--is that you're totally within your rights to claim, "X is true", and then a day later say, "X is not true" and not feel any sense of contradiction.  It reminds me of O'Brian in 1984, a brilliant concept for a character, IMO.

 

 

You are confused because you are arguing with a person you hallucinate me to be.

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Some people might want to read a book to learn some empathy for people in different situations. I suggest Coming Apart by Charles Murray.

 

Or try this: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/do-you-live-in-a-bubble-a-quiz-2/

 

Cool quiz.  I got 35, and "A first-generation upper-middle-class person with middle-class parents" essentially describes me. 

 

I got 12. The quiz might correctly describe how much I know or connect with general American culture.

 

OTOH, obviously I'm not "A second-generation (or more) upper-middle-class person who has made a point of getting out a lot.". I came to USA with exactly zero dollars in the pocket. This doesn't mean that my goal in life is to spend it on American entertainment or lifestyle. And regarding empathy: most of the people I know back in Lithuania - including some relatives - live way below US poverty level.

 

Anyway, was interesting. :)

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I'm certainly no expert on politics but I think that globalisation, immigration and growing inequality are serious issues

 

IMO there's only one issue people really care out of three above: growing inequality. If this was solved - not easy, but if - the globalization and immigration backlash would go to the fringes at most. Same with racism and nationalism. People hate immigrants and foreign products mostly because they feel they are poor and immigrants take their jobs/wages/etc. This happens much less if society is prosperous. (And we could argue that Europe really needs immigrants with its aging and declining population, but try to tell this to Europeans right now...)

 

Unfortunately, you might be right that situation won't improve and we will continue to have the demagogues running the racist, nationalist and possibly authoritarian tickets. We can only hope that Europe doesn't get too many of such elected. I'm more optimistic about US for now - situation here is IMO is better (even with Trump candidacy), the society more diverse, more multicultural and more accepting (even with the anti-Mexican and anti-Muslim rhetoric).

 

 

A very interesting read. I'm just cherry picking below - because I'm Canadian.  :-)

 

 

Restoring America’s Economic Mobility

September 2016 • Volume 45, Number 9 • Frank Buckley

Frank Buckley

Author, The Way Back: Restoring the Promise of America

 

"...

 

Readers of Umberto Eco’s The Name of the Rose will have encountered the word palimpsest, used to describe a manuscript in which one text has been written over another, and in which traces of the original remain. So it is with Canada, a country that beats the U.S. hands down on economic mobility. Canada has the reputation of being more liberal than the U.S., but in reality it is more conservative because its liberal policies are written over a page of deep conservatism.

 

- - chart --

 

Whereas the U.S. comes in at a highly immobile 0.47 on the Pew mobility scale, Canada is at 0.19, very close to Denmark’s 0.15. What is further remarkable about Canada is that the difference is mostly at the top and bottom of the distribution. Between the tenth and 90th deciles there isn’t much difference between the two countries. The difference is in the bottom and top ten percent, where the poorest parents raise the poorest kids and the richest parents raise the richest kids.

 

 

For parents in the top U.S. decile, 46 percent of their kids will end up in the top two deciles and only 2 percent in the bottom decile. The members of the top decile comprise a New Class of lawyers, academics, trust-fund babies, and media types—a group that wields undue influence in both political parties and dominates our culture. These are the people who said yes, there is an immigration crisis—but it’s caused by our failure to give illegals a pathway to citizenship!

 

There’s a top ten percent in Canada, of course, but its children are far more likely to descend into the middle or lower classes. There’s also a bottom ten percent, but its children are far more likely to rise to the top. The country of opportunity, the country we’ve imagined ourselves to be, isn’t dead—it moved to Canada, a country that ranks higher than the U.S. on measures of economic freedom. Yes, Canada has ..."

 

 

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/restoring-americas-economic-mobility/

 

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"("Why do they stay silent?", ask Trump fans as they try to destroy the lives of the accusers)"

 

Hillary needs only herself to destroy the lives of the accusers.

 

I still can't believe that we have these two running. While both represent fairly accurately the policies wanted by both parties, you would have a hard time picking these two characters from 300+ millions of Americans.

 

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